episode just aired and you didn’t mark it as no spoilers, this is odd. Someone that clicks on this should expect spoilers unless marked as such.
Why would anyone click on this thread looking for spoilers?
Not what I said/meant. If the episode just aired and you started a thread about it without marking it as no spoilers, shouldn’t enter at your own risk be assumed?
And who clicks on this and isn’t interested in reading or commenting on what happened?
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
They aren’t Tullys, the Tullys just rule the surrounding area/houses. They are smaller houses who don’t like each other due to territory disputes and also declared opposite rulers (Green v Black).
I agree, what’s the point of starting a thread like this if we can’t
Interested to see how they deviate from the source moving forward. This is one area (Aegon) I thought lent itself to going "off-script". I have two thoughts: wondering if it's possible for HotD to outpace GoT if only because they won't have to worry about tv folks patchworking an ending. Its been very good so far, great at times. Better than i was hoping for, tbh. Also, Aemond is an incredible character. Seems like he catches a lot of flak online but he's my favorite on the show.
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
It's not a "civil war" as much as its disagreement within the house over whether or not to pledge support to anyone or if its safer to let it play out. Not completely unlike the Freys during the early days of GoT. While the Tully's are in disarray due to lack of leadership, their vassals feel emboldened to screw around, which is how we got the Bracken-Blackwood battle.
I thought last week's episode was also tremendous, that convo with Allicent and RT was necessary and incredibly well acted. I have to shout out Emma D'Arcy, I loved Milly Alcock in the role but Emma is better.
The dragon fights being preluded by each rider showing their dragon love, nice touches there.
Have to assume Aemond makes a play for the crown now. And I hate Cole but he is outsmarting the blacks by himself.
Loving Cole and Aemond, they are a smart, ruthless pairing
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
It's not a "civil war" as much as its disagreement within the house over whether or not to pledge support to anyone or if its safer to let it play out. Not completely unlike the Freys during the early days of GoT. While the Tully's are in disarray due to lack of leadership, their vassals feel emboldened to screw around, which is how we got the Bracken-Blackwood battle.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks
Really enjoying it so far, even the subtle departures from the book
have been strong, which surprises me. They've also done a great job so far with scaling the various dragon sizes, which isn't easy.
You really saw that last night (scaling). It was well done with the 'looking up' shots. Its clear in the book but I'm not sure everyone gets it watching the show. Now you do. A spectacular episode.
and that was one of my biggest gripes (outside of the post-books story). It’s part of the reason I wasn’t really looking forward to this show originally but they have completely upped their game.
They have done a fantastic job not simply jumping into dragon fights for fan service, but letting the animosity slowly build, including within each house.
But then when they did finally unleash a full dragon battle, it was well worth the wait. The SFX have been tremendous when it comes to the size and individuality of the dragons.
I was wondering what a dragon fight would look like and I love the way they did it. In the 'making of" they talked about how they modeled it on how bird of prey fight in the air and it was a very good decision.
was Vhagar sneak attack wins again? The biggest dragon is able to hide/surprise Rhaenys/Melys, not a huge deal but does Vhagar need surprise? I thought it might be cool for her to just overpower Melys.
was Vhagar sneak attack wins again? The biggest dragon is able to hide/surprise Rhaenys/Melys, not a huge deal but does Vhagar need surprise? I thought it might be cool for her to just overpower Melys.
Agree that given Vhagar's size, the likelihood that she would be able to hide behind Rook's Rest unnoticed is unlikely. However, the book also says that in a one-on-one fight Meleys would have stood a chance given her speed/agility compared to the old Vhagar, so they had to do something to give Vhagar the upperhand since it did become a one-on-one fight.
RE: RE: Really enjoying it so far, even the subtle departures from the book
have been strong, which surprises me. They've also done a great job so far with scaling the various dragon sizes, which isn't easy.
You really saw that last night (scaling). It was well done with the 'looking up' shots. Its clear in the book but I'm not sure everyone gets it watching the show. Now you do. A spectacular episode.
Agreed, little details like this just tell me the show is in really good hands with writers/production that understands the material. I'm sure it helps having GRRM involved. But other touches like the moments each rider shares with their dragon before the ride out. Benioff and Weiss treated these magical elements almost like a nuisance in the last few seasons of the show. This show is really growing into its potential with the care they're putting into these details.
Also love how they're filling in the gaps from the book. Because of how that story is told, through witness re-telling, it leaves a lot of detail to fill in (a good example this week being how Aegon ended up at the battle with Sunfyre). I think they're doing a great job of filling in these moments, adding color and nuance to a story that is told as a very black and white narrative of two sides fighting for power.
is not a POV book (if that's what you meant by "witness retelling"). Fire and Blood was narrated by a Archmaester.
Yeah I couldn't think of the exact term I wanted, but essentially as you said, it's not written from the perspective of the characters. So there's plenty of opportunity to flesh out the emotions and decisions (or misunderstandings) that are leading to these events and they're really nailing it IMO
if the show was entirely in the POV of Mushroom, lol - x-rated, but interesting.
Haha! In the Rhaenyra/Laenor wedding episode there's a cut to a small person musician in the "band" that the writers sort of wink wink confirmed was a nod to mushroom
was Vhagar sneak attack wins again? The biggest dragon is able to hide/surprise Rhaenys/Melys, not a huge deal but does Vhagar need surprise? I thought it might be cool for her to just overpower Melys.
I did think that was one area that seemed a weak choice, but I think it was done more for shock value than tactic. I'm not sure how a dragon as large and slow as Vaghar can lie in wait like that behind a cliff.
It is an odd choice that the largest, strongest dragon in the world is taking out smaller dragons by sneak attacking them. It worked for episode 10 in season 1, but they need to change it up for the next time we see Vaghar.
Also agreed that Emma D'Arcy has been cooking. I really like Milly Alcock (and am happy she's in flashbacks), but D'Arcy is bringing the heat.
Matt Smith is still a beast. In some places it's written that half the people love Daemon and the other half hate him; I'm unfortunately a huge fan even though he's objectively a piece of shite.
The Meleys/Rhaenys vs Vhaegar/Aemond fight was breathtaking. I thought they did a great job showing that Meleys was the younger quicker dragon that stood a chance in a one on one fight. Vhaegar can just dominate other dragons or the Greens would have the upper hand in the war. Insteaf Vhaegar/Aemond outsmarted Meleys/Rhaenys and that was their end.
If anyone needed another layer of sadness to the dragon battle
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
RE: If anyone needed another layer of sadness to the dragon battle
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
I thought it was tragic before reading this!
Put me in the Dragons before riders camp. Seeing two go down in one episode was not easy to watch.
RE: RE: If anyone needed another layer of sadness to the dragon battle
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
I thought it was tragic before reading this!
Put me in the Dragons before riders camp. Seeing two go down in one episode was not easy to watch.
Seriously, that's some really good background!
RE: RE: RE: If anyone needed another layer of sadness to the dragon battle
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
I thought it was tragic before reading this!
Put me in the Dragons before riders camp. Seeing two go down in one episode was not easy to watch.
Seriously, that's some really good background!
They do a great job of giving the readers little Easter eggs while not having it be intrusive to the plot or alienating to folks who haven't had the opportunity to read, and there was quite in that scene. That's why, you'd have to think, Vhagar was actually gentle with Meleys, relative to what she's capable of. There was also some brief but big foreshadowing in that scene which will come back in a major way with the dragons.
RE: If anyone needed another layer of sadness to the dragon battle
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
Do we know how Vhagar got all those holes in his wings? Or is it just from years and years of fighting?
RE: RE: If anyone needed another layer of sadness to the dragon battle
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
Do we know how Vhagar got all those holes in his wings? Or is it just from years and years of fighting?
By the time of the Dance, Vhagar was 180 years old and a veteran of over 100 battles. The holes are likely the cost of those battles and her advanced age.
The Meleys/Rhaenys vs Vhaegar/Aemond fight was breathtaking. I thought they did a great job showing that Meleys was the younger quicker dragon that stood a chance in a one on one fight. Vhaegar can just dominate other dragons or the Greens would have the upper hand in the war. Insteaf Vhaegar/Aemond outsmarted Meleys/Rhaenys and that was their end.
I liked that they also showed the difference between the scales of an older dragon versus a younger dragon. Meleys claws Sunfyre's belly and rips it open immediately, but when she tries that move on Vhagar it hardly has an impact because Vhagar's scales have thickened/hardened with age. A small but cool detail to include.
The Meleys/Rhaenys vs Vhaegar/Aemond fight was breathtaking. I thought they did a great job showing that Meleys was the younger quicker dragon that stood a chance in a one on one fight. Vhaegar can just dominate other dragons or the Greens would have the upper hand in the war. Insteaf Vhaegar/Aemond outsmarted Meleys/Rhaenys and that was their end.
I liked that they also showed the difference between the scales of an older dragon versus a younger dragon. Meleys claws Sunfyre's belly and rips it open immediately, but when she tries that move on Vhagar it hardly has an impact because Vhagar's scales have thickened/hardened with age. A small but cool detail to include.
When all the buzz hit for this show, tbh, i wasn't really buying it. It's easy to say "But more dragons!", but GoT didn't do them particularly well if we're being honest, at least in my inconsistently humble opinion. With it being so central to this story it could've easily gone poorly.
But from the size and scaling, the actual CGI, even all the different saddle variations, they've just knocked it out of the park.
scene from GOT IMO was the end of season 7 episode 6. When the Wight's dragged Viserion's corpse out of the lake behind the wall with those big chains and you see his lifeless body laying on the ice and then the Night King touches him and resurrects him and his eye opens and it's blue like the wight's.
I thought that scene was well done, if I'm remembering it right.
I did think the scene and plot in general had other issues, lol, but I thought that was one of the most memorable dragon scenes from GOT.
I think we all agree the brutal dragon battle was the focus of the eps
Tonight, I was into it.
I mean we could, but I don’t want to spoil it for anyone. Maybe give it a few hours? IDK.
Tonight, I was into it.
Same. Recently started and season one and caught up this weekend. The last half of the episode last night was excellent.
Why would anyone click on this thread looking for spoilers?
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
Quote:
episode just aired and you didn’t mark it as no spoilers, this is odd. Someone that clicks on this should expect spoilers unless marked as such.
Why would anyone click on this thread looking for spoilers?
Not what I said/meant. If the episode just aired and you started a thread about it without marking it as no spoilers, shouldn’t enter at your own risk be assumed?
And who clicks on this and isn’t interested in reading or commenting on what happened?
Quote:
Don’t think that gives much away.
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
They aren’t Tullys, the Tullys just rule the surrounding area/houses. They are smaller houses who don’t like each other due to territory disputes and also declared opposite rulers (Green v Black).
Quote:
Don’t think that gives much away.
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
It's not a "civil war" as much as its disagreement within the house over whether or not to pledge support to anyone or if its safer to let it play out. Not completely unlike the Freys during the early days of GoT. While the Tully's are in disarray due to lack of leadership, their vassals feel emboldened to screw around, which is how we got the Bracken-Blackwood battle.
The dragon fights being preluded by each rider showing their dragon love, nice touches there.
Have to assume Aemond makes a play for the crown now. And I hate Cole but he is outsmarting the blacks by himself.
Quote:
In comment 16549547 HopePhil and Optimistic said:
Quote:
Don’t think that gives much away.
What I’m not following is the civil war within House Tully. House Bracken vs. House…whatever the fuck. I’m not following the plot there.
It's not a "civil war" as much as its disagreement within the house over whether or not to pledge support to anyone or if its safer to let it play out. Not completely unlike the Freys during the early days of GoT. While the Tully's are in disarray due to lack of leadership, their vassals feel emboldened to screw around, which is how we got the Bracken-Blackwood battle.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks
You really saw that last night (scaling). It was well done with the 'looking up' shots. Its clear in the book but I'm not sure everyone gets it watching the show. Now you do. A spectacular episode.
But then when they did finally unleash a full dragon battle, it was well worth the wait. The SFX have been tremendous when it comes to the size and individuality of the dragons.
I was wondering what a dragon fight would look like and I love the way they did it. In the 'making of" they talked about how they modeled it on how bird of prey fight in the air and it was a very good decision.
Agree that given Vhagar's size, the likelihood that she would be able to hide behind Rook's Rest unnoticed is unlikely. However, the book also says that in a one-on-one fight Meleys would have stood a chance given her speed/agility compared to the old Vhagar, so they had to do something to give Vhagar the upperhand since it did become a one-on-one fight.
Quote:
have been strong, which surprises me. They've also done a great job so far with scaling the various dragon sizes, which isn't easy.
You really saw that last night (scaling). It was well done with the 'looking up' shots. Its clear in the book but I'm not sure everyone gets it watching the show. Now you do. A spectacular episode.
Agreed, little details like this just tell me the show is in really good hands with writers/production that understands the material. I'm sure it helps having GRRM involved. But other touches like the moments each rider shares with their dragon before the ride out. Benioff and Weiss treated these magical elements almost like a nuisance in the last few seasons of the show. This show is really growing into its potential with the care they're putting into these details.
Also love how they're filling in the gaps from the book. Because of how that story is told, through witness re-telling, it leaves a lot of detail to fill in (a good example this week being how Aegon ended up at the battle with Sunfyre). I think they're doing a great job of filling in these moments, adding color and nuance to a story that is told as a very black and white narrative of two sides fighting for power.
Yeah I couldn't think of the exact term I wanted, but essentially as you said, it's not written from the perspective of the characters. So there's plenty of opportunity to flesh out the emotions and decisions (or misunderstandings) that are leading to these events and they're really nailing it IMO
Haha! In the Rhaenyra/Laenor wedding episode there's a cut to a small person musician in the "band" that the writers sort of wink wink confirmed was a nod to mushroom
I did think that was one area that seemed a weak choice, but I think it was done more for shock value than tactic. I'm not sure how a dragon as large and slow as Vaghar can lie in wait like that behind a cliff.
It is an odd choice that the largest, strongest dragon in the world is taking out smaller dragons by sneak attacking them. It worked for episode 10 in season 1, but they need to change it up for the next time we see Vaghar.
Also agreed that Emma D'Arcy has been cooking. I really like Milly Alcock (and am happy she's in flashbacks), but D'Arcy is bringing the heat.
Matt Smith is still a beast. In some places it's written that half the people love Daemon and the other half hate him; I'm unfortunately a huge fan even though he's objectively a piece of shite.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
I thought it was tragic before reading this!
Put me in the Dragons before riders camp. Seeing two go down in one episode was not easy to watch.
Quote:
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
I thought it was tragic before reading this!
Put me in the Dragons before riders camp. Seeing two go down in one episode was not easy to watch.
Seriously, that's some really good background!
Quote:
In comment 16550030 j_rud said:
Quote:
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
I thought it was tragic before reading this!
Put me in the Dragons before riders camp. Seeing two go down in one episode was not easy to watch.
Seriously, that's some really good background!
They do a great job of giving the readers little Easter eggs while not having it be intrusive to the plot or alienating to folks who haven't had the opportunity to read, and there was quite in that scene. That's why, you'd have to think, Vhagar was actually gentle with Meleys, relative to what she's capable of. There was also some brief but big foreshadowing in that scene which will come back in a major way with the dragons.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
Do we know how Vhagar got all those holes in his wings? Or is it just from years and years of fighting?
Quote:
Prior to Aemond, Vhagar's rider was Laena, Rhaenys's daughter. That was the cause of that reluctant look she gave, not fear of Vhagar's size.
Prior to that Vhagar and Meleys were ridden by a couple, Baelon and Alyssa. Technically Vhagar and Meleys were "old friends". I wish they could've established that somehow. Makes it kinda tragic.
Do we know how Vhagar got all those holes in his wings? Or is it just from years and years of fighting?
By the time of the Dance, Vhagar was 180 years old and a veteran of over 100 battles. The holes are likely the cost of those battles and her advanced age.
I liked that they also showed the difference between the scales of an older dragon versus a younger dragon. Meleys claws Sunfyre's belly and rips it open immediately, but when she tries that move on Vhagar it hardly has an impact because Vhagar's scales have thickened/hardened with age. A small but cool detail to include.
Quote:
The Meleys/Rhaenys vs Vhaegar/Aemond fight was breathtaking. I thought they did a great job showing that Meleys was the younger quicker dragon that stood a chance in a one on one fight. Vhaegar can just dominate other dragons or the Greens would have the upper hand in the war. Insteaf Vhaegar/Aemond outsmarted Meleys/Rhaenys and that was their end.
I liked that they also showed the difference between the scales of an older dragon versus a younger dragon. Meleys claws Sunfyre's belly and rips it open immediately, but when she tries that move on Vhagar it hardly has an impact because Vhagar's scales have thickened/hardened with age. A small but cool detail to include.
When all the buzz hit for this show, tbh, i wasn't really buying it. It's easy to say "But more dragons!", but GoT didn't do them particularly well if we're being honest, at least in my inconsistently humble opinion. With it being so central to this story it could've easily gone poorly.
But from the size and scaling, the actual CGI, even all the different saddle variations, they've just knocked it out of the park.
I thought that scene was well done, if I'm remembering it right.
I did think the scene and plot in general had other issues, lol, but I thought that was one of the most memorable dragon scenes from GOT.
How will that make him a better warrior, I expect him to be unleashed at the end of this season. The greens will fear his uprise
also I'm into Alys Rivers character.
Quote:
episode just aired and you didn’t mark it as no spoilers, this is odd. Someone that clicks on this should expect spoilers unless marked as such.
Why would anyone click on this thread looking for spoilers?
I jiust clicked on because I'm looking for things to watch and wanted to hear BBI opinions. If the OP said "spoilers" I would not have clicked on.