caused a lot of resentment. Schoen said "it took 10 years off my life." Saqoun on the phone was super standoffish with Schoen. Saqoun agent was very accommodation of Joe Schoen's call.
Whether its confirmation bias or fact, it's JS sure did convinced himself it's a 27 year old running back and the data is bad when they hit this age. Through the first two episodes other Giants brass seemed a little warming to bring saqoun back.
Lastly, watching this also makes me think maybe Saqoun himself wanted to sign with the eagles as a final slap in the face.
When Schoen hung up, he knew Saquon was gone. And there clearly was some bad vibes.
some may have found it boring, but I was fascinated by the pre-brief by the PR team. It's exactly how we did it in government.
100%, and I agree completely with your comment on this was a great episode showing the personality and intellect of Brain Daboll. How can you not root for the guy, I truly hope he gets to groom the next Giants QB and doesn’t have the same fate as the 3 failures that came before him. He’s the guy you want here when they need to coach up a new franchise QB.
Brian Daboll also chose to groom Daniel Jones. That's not a bad thing btw...shows there's more to Jones than many may give him credit for. Hope he stays healthy and gets better under this coach..would be one hell of a story.
I was surprised they showed so much of the interviews. Loved how the staff knew Worthy was going to go off and how Diablo thinks he has some speed. Hilarious everyone shooting him down.
Also the details of the conversation with Ed Berry was very cool. A lot of good stuff in there. The choir boy comments are pretty topical too.
RE: I would not want to be a returning cb on this team
These guys are rightfully shitting all over these guys every episode lol
Well, they only have one legit guy in Banks, and he still has a lot to improve on. New defensive regime coming in they probably feel like Banks might not be what they want in a #1CB. Banks was pretty much hand picked for Wink, and he’s no longer here. They will address both CB and DT/DE next year for sure. Only have so many holes you can fill.
Except we have already seen that Mara put pressure on ownership to keep Saquon (especially the teaser for next week).
So how much pressure did he put on them in 2023 with Jones? (remember, Schoen is also pissed that he has to use the Franchise tag on Saquon so that tool was off the table).
It was stating the obvious but Schoen explaining that they treat QB differently than every other position explains some of what has gone on here during the Jones years. He's what they want off the field and that's weighing too heavily in there thinking it seems.
Impressed me the most of the QB interviews. I think he is going to be real good, hate having to root against him as he seems like a great person and is an amazing player.
hate to say it but signing Christian Wilkins + having pick 39 back
Except we have already seen that Mara put pressure on ownership to keep Saquon (especially the teaser for next week).
So how much pressure did he put on them in 2023 with Jones? (remember, Schoen is also pissed that he has to use the Franchise tag on Saquon so that tool was off the table).
Yea definitely could, and probably, is a factor...but I just think the fact that they didn't pick up the 5th year option meant that there was always a chance they'd be able to walk away if they truly wanted...
Now a lot changes in a year - was this regime as confident to stick to their guns back in the 2023 offseason as they are now? You might be totally right..but the optimist in me hopes otherwise I guess.
Second to the games, this is the best football programming I've ever seen.
Two things that are crystal clear to me 1) a football front office operates so much like any other business 2) coaching is by far the most important and complicated component.
that the Giants let him test the market instead of blowing him away with an offer before that point. It’s a business, dude, get over yourself. Obviously, I’m factoring in his decision to leave here but the tone just seemed weird on that phone call. Did we already learn that the Giants basically offered him 3/36? I don’t remember hearing that before and my eyebrows went up when Joe said it.
that the Giants let him test the market instead of blowing him away with an offer before that point. It’s a business, dude, get over yourself. Obviously, I’m factoring in his decision to leave here but the tone just seemed weird on that phone call. Did we already learn that the Giants basically offered him 3/36? I don’t remember hearing that before and my eyebrows went up when Joe said it.
He does come off as bitter. But losing will also do that. And he has to come to terms with the wear-and-tear his body has already taken.
Giants should have traded him in at mid-season. I said as much before that season started. His trade value by Halloween that year was sky high. Of course, the fans would have rioted.
the contract bit on Saquon at the end in the teaser. Sounds like the Giants did offer him 3/$36.
The first two episodes, Schoen was wondering out loud if Saquon would really leave the Giants for an extra million per year or if he meant what he said about wanting to be a Giant for life. He ultimately left for the extra million per year. I mean, that’s simplifying it and we don’t know how the contract was structured but yeah, it sure looked like the Giants were very close. I had just assumed the Eagles offer blew the Giants offer away and that the Giants wouldn’t come close and made it easy for him to leave. That wasn’t the case, it seems.
All that wanting to be a Giant talk really does seem like total nonsense now.
I know a lot of fans don't watch the player press conferences, but Saquon sounded like he wanted out when the season ended. Going to Philly had to be very attractive for him. He has roots there and they have an OL and QB.
Would watch 37 episodes in a row if they were available. As a fan or the draft they could do so much and wish we had more senior bowl.
For this episode the sticking points for me.
1. Saquan refused to say he would give the Giants the chance to match. Sounds like he never came off what he wanted last year or being tagged is what pushed him out.
2. Dabol is hard on QBs in the room with the X's and O's but he does have a relatable demeanor. He didn't get to test Jones before he was his QB, does Jones pass that test in Dabols mind?
3. Several references to the QBs being able to handle NY. Coupled with mentioning Jones approval of Nabers and I think this staff does still belive in Jones, for more then this year.
4. Odunze came off great. If we had selected him I would have been fine with it in April but would be running to buy an Odunze jersey tomorrow after this episode. Everything I want in a football player.
5. The Burns love is real. Idk if it's edited that way now that he's here or if he really was the pipe dream they seem to have had through this episode.
6. Dabol talks about watching Nabers tape and being impressed without mentioning Daniels. Either we knew he was gone or he wasn't on his mind after the interview. Interested on the timeliness there.
were set with the expectation, or at least the possibility Schoen would be making an opening offer.
The fact Schoen chose the ‘go see what your market is, and give us the chance to match’ tact, which was wise, also probably disappointed Saquon.
I really think Saquon, who admirably worked hard to come back from his injuries, thought having a monster first 6 games last year should have earned him the payday he wanted from the Giants.
Unfortunately, the balance of the season proved yet again why it usually isn’t wise to give out monster FA money to RBs. No matter how much you may like a guy
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate
In the teaser for next week, #Giants owner John Mara is shown saying, "I'll have a tough time sleeping if Saquon Barkley goes..."
GM Joe Schoen is also shown on the phone saying that if he offered a 3-year, $37.5M deal with $25M guaranteed, Barkley would be with the Giants.
I'm not sure if Schoen is asking if he would stay or saying he would stay. The full sequence will air next week.
Barkley signed with the #Eagles for 3 years, $37.75M, with $26M guaranteed and another $9M in available incentives.
Coach Daboll know play schematics frontwards and backwards gives an inside view of why he got so frustrated on the sidelines with all of DJ’s bonehead mistakes and missed open receivers!
Coach Daboll know play schematics frontwards and backwards gives an inside view of why he got so frustrated on the sidelines with all of DJ’s bonehead mistakes and missed open receivers!
Bobby Skinner
@BobbySkinner_
Giants Hard Knocks Episode 2 thoughts
•No denying that the Giants wanted to trade up for Drake Maye
•Christian Wilkins probably is a Giant if Brian Burns wasn’t traded for
•Confirmed that Giants didn’t make an offer to Saquon & still haven’t gotten any sense of urgency from Schoen to keep him. Schoen seemed miffed that Saquon turned down 2023 offers
•Unclear where things really stood with Xavier McKinney after cap number was more than expected but he was also linked to Christian Wilkins
•Crazy how low Burns compensation was when they were convinced it would take a 1st or 2 2nds
Eric, I wonder if Schoen is actually talking about last year.
My subjective, opinionated take is that Schoen didn't really want Barkley back and Barkley didn't really want to come back.
Everything else seems like background noise to me.
This.
Schoen in his absolute gut knows paying that position that contract hurts you in team building. Berry called him out on it over the phone - and I think he was right.
It also sounds like from a business perspective these guys have some bad blood after last offseason - it was a good thing for both parties to walk away.
Whether its confirmation bias or fact, it's JS sure did convinced himself it's a 27 year old running back and the data is bad when they hit this age. Through the first two episodes other Giants brass seemed a little warming to bring saqoun back.
Lastly, watching this also makes me think maybe Saqoun himself wanted to sign with the eagles as a final slap in the face.
When Schoen hung up, he knew Saquon was gone. And there clearly was some bad vibes.
His nubin love is full bloom. And rightfully so
Quote:
some may have found it boring, but I was fascinated by the pre-brief by the PR team. It's exactly how we did it in government.
100%, and I agree completely with your comment on this was a great episode showing the personality and intellect of Brain Daboll. How can you not root for the guy, I truly hope he gets to groom the next Giants QB and doesn’t have the same fate as the 3 failures that came before him. He’s the guy you want here when they need to coach up a new franchise QB.
Brian Daboll also chose to groom Daniel Jones. That's not a bad thing btw...shows there's more to Jones than many may give him credit for. Hope he stays healthy and gets better under this coach..would be one hell of a story.
Also the details of the conversation with Ed Berry was very cool. A lot of good stuff in there. The choir boy comments are pretty topical too.
Well, they only have one legit guy in Banks, and he still has a lot to improve on. New defensive regime coming in they probably feel like Banks might not be what they want in a #1CB. Banks was pretty much hand picked for Wink, and he’s no longer here. They will address both CB and DT/DE next year for sure. Only have so many holes you can fill.
Absolutely..could see why he was the guy NYG targeted if they went QB (of course in small snippets).
Do you think Daboll was kind of annoyed Daniel's misspoke the F vs X option twice consecutively? Lol
So how much pressure did he put on them in 2023 with Jones? (remember, Schoen is also pissed that he has to use the Franchise tag on Saquon so that tool was off the table).
Thats Cooper Dejean or Kool Aid Mckinstry
Thats Cooper Dejean or Kool Aid Mckinstry
With Azeez Ojulari your starting OLB again?
So how much pressure did he put on them in 2023 with Jones? (remember, Schoen is also pissed that he has to use the Franchise tag on Saquon so that tool was off the table).
Yea definitely could, and probably, is a factor...but I just think the fact that they didn't pick up the 5th year option meant that there was always a chance they'd be able to walk away if they truly wanted...
Now a lot changes in a year - was this regime as confident to stick to their guns back in the 2023 offseason as they are now? You might be totally right..but the optimist in me hopes otherwise I guess.
Two things that are crystal clear to me 1) a football front office operates so much like any other business 2) coaching is by far the most important and complicated component.
He does come off as bitter. But losing will also do that. And he has to come to terms with the wear-and-tear his body has already taken.
Giants should have traded him in at mid-season. I said as much before that season started. His trade value by Halloween that year was sky high. Of course, the fans would have rioted.
Sigh.
I couldn’t tell if they offered it or knows that’s what they would have to offer
I interpreted that as what it would take for Saquon to remain a Giant.
Quote:
the contract bit on Saquon at the end in the teaser. Sounds like the Giants did offer him 3/$36.
I couldn’t tell if they offered it or knows that’s what they would have to offer
I didn't hear it, but I saw the same thing posted on X as was posted above. I guess we'll find out next week.
Regardless, I firmly believe it was time to move on.
He banked 10M from the Giants in 2023, and then secured 26M in guarantees from the Eagles.
He raised his floor by 16.5M.
He banked 10M from the Giants in 2023, and then secured 26M in guarantees from the Eagles.
He raised his floor by 16.5M.
BTW, I heard privately that the Texans offered more.
The first two episodes, Schoen was wondering out loud if Saquon would really leave the Giants for an extra million per year or if he meant what he said about wanting to be a Giant for life. He ultimately left for the extra million per year. I mean, that’s simplifying it and we don’t know how the contract was structured but yeah, it sure looked like the Giants were very close. I had just assumed the Eagles offer blew the Giants offer away and that the Giants wouldn’t come close and made it easy for him to leave. That wasn’t the case, it seems.
All that wanting to be a Giant talk really does seem like total nonsense now.
Also Odunze showed why I wanted him so bad. That kid is a 10+ year foundation to an NFL roster. Very very impressive young man.
Also Odunze showed why I wanted him so bad. That kid is a 10+ year foundation to an NFL roster. Very very impressive young man.
NFL team … Not NFL Roster
Quote:
the contract bit on Saquon at the end in the teaser. Sounds like the Giants did offer him 3/$36.
I couldn’t tell if they offered it or knows that’s what they would have to offer
If they were just stating what it might take then my previous post can be ignored. I took it as him saying that’s the offer out there from the Giants.
For this episode the sticking points for me.
1. Saquan refused to say he would give the Giants the chance to match. Sounds like he never came off what he wanted last year or being tagged is what pushed him out.
2. Dabol is hard on QBs in the room with the X's and O's but he does have a relatable demeanor. He didn't get to test Jones before he was his QB, does Jones pass that test in Dabols mind?
3. Several references to the QBs being able to handle NY. Coupled with mentioning Jones approval of Nabers and I think this staff does still belive in Jones, for more then this year.
4. Odunze came off great. If we had selected him I would have been fine with it in April but would be running to buy an Odunze jersey tomorrow after this episode. Everything I want in a football player.
5. The Burns love is real. Idk if it's edited that way now that he's here or if he really was the pipe dream they seem to have had through this episode.
6. Dabol talks about watching Nabers tape and being impressed without mentioning Daniels. Either we knew he was gone or he wasn't on his mind after the interview. Interested on the timeliness there.
He banked 10M from the Giants in 2023, and then secured 26M in guarantees from the Eagles.
He raised his floor by 16.5M.
BTW, I heard privately that the Texans offered more.
Not surprising, and not surprising Barkley went to Philly. Close to his family and he clearly hates Schoen.
The fact Schoen chose the ‘go see what your market is, and give us the chance to match’ tact, which was wise, also probably disappointed Saquon.
I really think Saquon, who admirably worked hard to come back from his injuries, thought having a monster first 6 games last year should have earned him the payday he wanted from the Giants.
Unfortunately, the balance of the season proved yet again why it usually isn’t wise to give out monster FA money to RBs. No matter how much you may like a guy
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate
In the teaser for next week, #Giants owner John Mara is shown saying, "I'll have a tough time sleeping if Saquon Barkley goes..."
GM Joe Schoen is also shown on the phone saying that if he offered a 3-year, $37.5M deal with $25M guaranteed, Barkley would be with the Giants.
I'm not sure if Schoen is asking if he would stay or saying he would stay. The full sequence will air next week.
Barkley signed with the #Eagles for 3 years, $37.75M, with $26M guaranteed and another $9M in available incentives.
Or if he pulled a Steve Smith by breaking his promise and signing with Philly without giving the Giants a chance...
That will be more important to how I feel about Saquon vs his tone on the call where he was clearly hoping to hear other news...
My subjective, opinionated take is that Schoen didn't really want Barkley back and Barkley didn't really want to come back.
Everything else seems like background noise to me.
Such a stupid comment.
@BobbySkinner_
Giants Hard Knocks Episode 2 thoughts
•No denying that the Giants wanted to trade up for Drake Maye
•Christian Wilkins probably is a Giant if Brian Burns wasn’t traded for
•Confirmed that Giants didn’t make an offer to Saquon & still haven’t gotten any sense of urgency from Schoen to keep him. Schoen seemed miffed that Saquon turned down 2023 offers
•Unclear where things really stood with Xavier McKinney after cap number was more than expected but he was also linked to Christian Wilkins
•Crazy how low Burns compensation was when they were convinced it would take a 1st or 2 2nds
Quote:
Eric, I wonder if Schoen is actually talking about last year.
My subjective, opinionated take is that Schoen didn't really want Barkley back and Barkley didn't really want to come back.
Everything else seems like background noise to me.
This.
Schoen in his absolute gut knows paying that position that contract hurts you in team building. Berry called him out on it over the phone - and I think he was right.
It also sounds like from a business perspective these guys have some bad blood after last offseason - it was a good thing for both parties to walk away.
@MySportsUpdate
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27m
Drake Maye seemed to crush his interview with the #Giants, and Brian Daboll loved every second of it.
The Giants did try to trade up to No. 3, with the pick likely being Maye.
Again, this is fantastic content.