Eric, I wonder if Schoen is actually talking about last year.
My subjective, opinionated take is that Schoen didn't really want Barkley back and Barkley didn't really want to come back.
Everything else seems like background noise to me.
i think your first opinion is right and the second one is wrong. i think barkley wanted to come back and was hurt that the feeling wasnt mutual (going back to last summer, and then probably again that the giants never put an offer in front of him ahead of FA).
if schoen wanted him back i think he'd have put an offer in front of him before FA, even if it were just the same extension they'd offered prior but adjusted to the cap increase, the problem was they were so close to a deal last summer i think he couldnt do that without risking saquon would take it.
my big unknown in all this is daboll, if he wanted to keep barkley like it seems like he wanted nabers, i think barkley would be back. i could believe that he wanted to burn the boats and running back to force the shift he wants into a passing team.
I think Schoen offered him what was a fair deal last year (and based on what we know, it seems like it was). I think he personally got frustrated with Saquon's (and Roc Nation's stance). "Took 10 years off my life." Left a bad taste in his mouth.
Saquon's demeanor ever since his final press interaction seemed to suggest he was done with the Giants. The phone call on the show last night was even worse. Saquon was glad they let him go.
If anything, it shows me that there was absolutely no interest in JJ McCarthy.
Which shows that "a lot of what was reported both in the media and by the asshats" wasn't true.
Except it's a TV show that they have to edit for time. The Giants interviewed McCarthy at the Combine and even McCarthy said he hit it out of the park with them.
I'm not sure Brandon Brown leaves soon. I think he's a valuable asset, but I'm not sure he is seasoned enough yet to be an actual GM. (I also don't think Kafka may be out as soon as everyone thinks... if he interviews like he speaks to the press, boring... I'd like to see what his real personality is like).
If Brown does leave, it could be Rosetti or Crowden, but my money is on Dennis Hickey.
so they couldn’t have been that floored with him. Facts are on Milton’s side there.
I thought Daniels was unimpressive in that interview too. He seemed like a skinny kid talking to a bunch of adults. Seems a bit quiet. Kind of matched the scouting report they gave on him earlier.
"We need to get around this kid and see if we can work with him because there is a lot to his personality,” area scout Scott Hamel said.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
I was thinking the same thing k2! I really wanted Rome because he just seemed like a professional and NOT a diva. Even on the show, that kid is ready to go! Here's to hoping Nabers will not get in trouble in NYC.
"We need to get around this kid and see if we can work with him because there is a lot to his personality,” area scout Scott Hamel said.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
I think Brown was saying to JS after watching Nabers on tape that they were expecting more of an aggressive player in the interview. I think that's where the great WRs aren't choirboy comment came from.
My take is-while publicly the Giants are not happy with the video-they know that's all part of the "dawg" that Daboll was looking for. Perhaps they wish Nabers was just a bit more discreet about it.
As others have pointed out, it seems like an awkward situation where Schoen didn’t want him back, and Barkley didn’t want to be back, but they both had to keep up appearances rather than just admit they were done.
I’m very interested to see if Barkley actually did “circle back”.
I'm not sure Brandon Brown leaves soon. I think he's a valuable asset, but I'm not sure he is seasoned enough yet to be an actual GM. (I also don't think Kafka may be out as soon as everyone thinks... if he interviews like he speaks to the press, boring... I'd like to see what his real personality is like).
If Brown does leave, it could be Rosetti or Crowden, but my money is on Dennis Hickey.
I think Joe thinks of him self as more of a draft guy and would put a guy more focused on Pro scouting as his number 2. What was interesting is as he saw the cap number he went straight to Rosetti not Brown.
so they couldn’t have been that floored with him. Facts are on Milton’s side there.
I thought Daniels was unimpressive in that interview too. He seemed like a skinny kid talking to a bunch of adults. Seems a bit quiet. Kind of matched the scouting report they gave on him earlier.
The Giants met with him on Easter. They were interested. They were more interested in Nabers.
I'm not sure Brandon Brown leaves soon. I think he's a valuable asset, but I'm not sure he is seasoned enough yet to be an actual GM. (I also don't think Kafka may be out as soon as everyone thinks... if he interviews like he speaks to the press, boring... I'd like to see what his real personality is like).
If Brown does leave, it could be Rosetti or Crowden, but my money is on Dennis Hickey.
I think Joe thinks of him self as more of a draft guy and would put a guy more focused on Pro scouting as his number 2. What was interesting is as he saw the cap number he went straight to Rosetti not Brown.
"We need to get around this kid and see if we can work with him because there is a lot to his personality,” area scout Scott Hamel said.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
I was thinking the same thing k2! I really wanted Rome because he just seemed like a professional and NOT a diva. Even on the show, that kid is ready to go! Here's to hoping Nabers will not get in trouble in NYC.
I didn't love Schoen using the ring of honor, wanting to be a Giant stuff against a player. That came off as weak to me. I don't think a GM should imply to a player that if you want to be here, you can take less money.
I think Barkley, no matter what his representation and whoever else advised him, felt getting paid more than the equivalent of the franchise tag in 2023 and 2024 was the fair floor. I think that's where the 1-2 million apart came from last year. Twenty-two in guarantees was around that, I think he wanted a token gesture above that.
In the grand scheme of things the difference between guaranteeing 22M and 24M in seasons where the Giants guaranteed 82M to Jones, 67M to Thomas, 46.5M to Lawrence, and 76M to Burns just seems silly.
I didn't love Schoen using the ring of honor, wanting to be a Giant stuff against a player. That came off as weak to me. I don't think a GM should imply to a player that if you want to be here, you can take less money.
I think Barkley, no matter what his representation and whoever else advised him, felt getting paid more than the equivalent of the franchise tag in 2023 and 2024 was the fair floor. I think that's where the 1-2 million apart came from last year. Twenty-two in guarantees was around that, I think he wanted a token gesture above that.
In the grand scheme of things the difference between guaranteeing 22M and 24M in seasons where the Giants guaranteed 82M to Jones, 67M to Thomas, 46.5M to Lawrence, and 76M to Burns just seems silly.
Disagree. Schoen has his number. Saquon had his. Schoen reminded Barkley about his legacy and his own words about remaining a Giant for life. I would have done the same at the point (it was a last-ditch tool... I think he read the writing on the wall too).
"We need to get around this kid and see if we can work with him because there is a lot to his personality,” area scout Scott Hamel said.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
This coupled with watching a ton of Odunze last season and then seeing him in this episode has me really wishing we took him. Nabers seems like he is going to be a very high risk/high reward pick. Odunze ceiling may be lower by a smidge but his floor is absolutely higher by a mile. Barring injury he will be a hell of a player.
Really hope we got it right. All coaches think they can help players be who they need to be. It ain't that easy.
- Much like most of you, I don't think Saquon wanted to come back nor did Schoen want him back. Via Mara's appearance last week and in the "teaser" for next week, he clearly wanted Saquon back. Goes back to a comment I've made in the past about Mara, I don't think he mandates GM's do anything, but he "meddles" by making his feelings known and doesn't entirely stay out of things
- Clear interest in Maye. They may still like Daniel, but they clearly don't like him that much or have long term plans for him if they were that interested in Drake
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
- I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of Hannah Burnett over the next 3 episodes and she may come out the big winner from this. She's came off very well
- Bowen's face when asked about Brian Burns told you everything you need to know about how he feels about Spider. I'd love to play poker against Bowen
- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
I didn't love Schoen using the ring of honor, wanting to be a Giant stuff against a player. That came off as weak to me. I don't think a GM should imply to a player that if you want to be here, you can take less money.
I think Barkley, no matter what his representation and whoever else advised him, felt getting paid more than the equivalent of the franchise tag in 2023 and 2024 was the fair floor. I think that's where the 1-2 million apart came from last year. Twenty-two in guarantees was around that, I think he wanted a token gesture above that.
In the grand scheme of things the difference between guaranteeing 22M and 24M in seasons where the Giants guaranteed 82M to Jones, 67M to Thomas, 46.5M to Lawrence, and 76M to Burns just seems silly.
Disagree. Schoen has his number. Saquon had his. Schoen reminded Barkley about his legacy and his own words about remaining a Giant for life. I would have done the same at the point (it was a last-ditch tool... I think he read the writing on the wall too).
I think Schoen never wanted to commit to Barkley after 2023. He's repeated the data on 27-year-olds in each episode.
You don't lose a player you want to keep over the 1-2M gap in guarantees reported last year. And the poor me shit because the negotiations were hard is also a little pathetic. Oh poor Joe, negotiating was hard. Wah.
I think the offer in 2023 was a non-offer, and I don't think they would have matched anything except a ridiculously low offer in 2024.
I don't even like Barkley, but it's so obvious Schoen was doing the minimum to keep the appearance up they wanted Barkley.
And keep this in mind - if the reports are true that Barkley would have accepted 3/33M with 23M guaranteed.
The Giants paid Barkley 10.1M guaranteed on 2023, and then gave Singletary 2/16.5M with 9.5M fully guaranteed. 27.5M with 20.6M.
Again I don't even like Barkley, but he's certainly worth the incremental 2.4M in guarantees.
Some of my takeaways
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
Those top three WRs are really 1A, 1AA and 1AAA. Any one would have been a great pick. I preferred Odunze because I think a Larry Fitzgerald type would be best for the team, but just as pleased with Nabers (I also thought Harrison came across really well in the show but didn't think the Giants had a chance to pick him).
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- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
It certainly would have been more humorous. Indistinguishable from Curb Your Enthusiasm probably.
Almost every pundit had the Giants taking Nabers for weeks before the draft. Only as the draft approached, did the McCarthy stuff pick up speed with them.
Only on BBI were we focused on other players.
The obvious choice from the start was Nabers. We all should have known better.
We're talking about a guy who some scouts had above Harrison.
I agree with Schoen complaining about how hard it was dealing with franchising Barkley. It's part of the job.
Schoen should have taken the "test the market" approach with Barkley last year. It would have been better since the RB market was worse last year too. Franchise Jones and decide if you want to match any offer Barkley got.
I admit it would have been more challenging doing that off of 2022.
I agree with Schoen complaining about how hard it was dealing with franchising Barkley. It's part of the job.
Schoen should have taken the "test the market" approach with Barkley last year. It would have been better since the RB market was worse last year too. Franchise Jones and decide if you want to match any offer Barkley got.
I admit it would have been more challenging doing that off of 2022.
I agree with Biteymax above... it's clear Mara uses passive aggressive pressure on the GM. I'm not sure Mara would have OKed them letting Saquon test the market last year (players who test the market are usually gone).
Some of my takeaways
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
Those top three WRs are really 1A, 1AA and 1AAA. Any one would have been a great pick. I preferred Odunze because I think a Larry Fitzgerald type would be best for the team, but just as pleased with Nabers (I also thought Harrison came across really well in the show but didn't think the Giants had a chance to pick him).
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- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
It certainly would have been more humorous. Indistinguishable from Curb Your Enthusiasm probably.
Agree with the WRs, I honestly would have been more than happy with any of the three, however I think if you watch what Daboll did in Buffalo, Nabers clearly has more of a skill set that he's looking for. If you watch Diggs and how he moved him inside and out, Nabers absolutely perfect for that role and dare I say has more upside.
While Odunze would still produce, I can't pick out a role in the offense that would perfectly fit his skill set like I can with Nabers.
I agree with Schoen complaining about how hard it was dealing with franchising Barkley. It's part of the job.
Schoen should have taken the "test the market" approach with Barkley last year. It would have been better since the RB market was worse last year too. Franchise Jones and decide if you want to match any offer Barkley got.
I admit it would have been more challenging doing that off of 2022.
I agree with Biteymax above... it's clear Mara uses passive aggressive pressure on the GM. I'm not sure Mara would have OKed them letting Saquon test the market last year (players who test the market are usually gone).
I'm coming close to tagging him with the moniker of "Meddling Mara"
Eric, I can see your view. If Barkley had just said yes last year, it's not like Schoen was going to say just kidding.
Again, I don't even like Barkley. But it's weird to lose a player you like over a reported difference of 1M-2M in guarantees. If the reason for that is frustration from the negotiations, Schoen needs to find a new profession.
The outcome is weird. He'll end up paying a few million less for Barkley + Singletary at similar ages for the 2023 and 2024 seasons for what he could have paid for two seasons of Barkley.
Eric, I can see your view. If Barkley had just said yes last year, it's not like Schoen was going to say just kidding.
Again, I don't even like Barkley. But it's weird to lose a player you like over a reported difference of 1M-2M in guarantees. If the reason for that is frustration from the negotiations, Schoen needs to find a new profession.
The outcome is weird. He'll end up paying a few million less for Barkley + Singletary at similar ages for the 2023 and 2024 seasons for what he could have paid for two seasons of Barkley.
George Young was even worse. He had his red line and wouldn't budge. Different era, but it seemed to really bug him that a player would even dare to ask for more money than Young was offering.
I think it's pretty clear that Schoen felt the franchise was already allocating too much money to one running back. If you accept that, his position is easier to understand. Schoen was already above his comfort zone. If Mara wasn't nagging him, it probably would not have gotten even that far.
1. Ran behind a shitshow OL for years. How many times was he tackled 2 yards behind LOS?
2. Considerable injury history over 6 seasons
3. Definitely lost speed after knee injury.
4. As I said above in thread: Schoen over Saquon and Saquon over Giants. Both wanted to move on…
I’m not a Saquon hater so I hope he revives his career in Philly. He is in a great situation on that diverse offense. The main problem was he was drafted number 2 by our idiot GM
And for the Giants I hope Singletary has a great injury free season.
is a controversial subject on this site, but in the first two episodes, it is very telling to me that the two guys making the biggest push to keep Saquon are Mara and McDonald. (and this is after the edits were approved... makes you wonder what they left out).
I agree with Schoen complaining about how hard it was dealing with franchising Barkley. It's part of the job.
My guess is privately Schoen's view is something like:
Dude, I don't even want you here, and the only reason I offered this much is because my boss keeps coming in my office telling me how much he loves you.
The worst outcome for Schoen is Philly validating Mara's perspective. And if Barkley has a huge season, it will be a credibility eroding problem for Schoen in Mara's eyes.
Small tidbit from the show that I liked, most may shrug their
so they couldn’t have been that floored with him. Facts are on Milton’s side there.
I thought Daniels was unimpressive in that interview too. He seemed like a skinny kid talking to a bunch of adults. Seems a bit quiet. Kind of matched the scouting report they gave on him earlier.
Daniels comment about how he would handle NYC pressure was funny "Well, I did play in Death Valley" ... yeah, ok kid.
RE: Small tidbit from the show that I liked, most may shrug their
It can’t be more clear how the Barkley situation played out the past 18+ months. Mara and Co desperately wanted him to be the face of the franchise for the next 25 years, and already ordering the ring of honor signage. And willing to resign him at any cost.
Schoen felt the pressure, and offered more than a fair number. Seems Schoen felt they were close to a deal, and could franchise Jones. And something blew up at the end, forcing the Jones contract.
We know the Jones contract went down to the last minute. I think the Barkley contract blowing up and pivot to Jones deal is what took the ten years off Schoen life.
I think Schoen Daboll like Jones. But would have preferred a franchise contract rather than the commitment. Jones injury, I think is where Schoen feels Barkley screwed the franchise by not agreeing to a deal to allow the Jones franchise tag…
The frustration of dealing with Barkley, calling his Giant for Life bluff, and pressure from ownership all couldn't be more clear IMO
Some of my takeaways
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
Those top three WRs are really 1A, 1AA and 1AAA. Any one would have been a great pick. I preferred Odunze because I think a Larry Fitzgerald type would be best for the team, but just as pleased with Nabers (I also thought Harrison came across really well in the show but didn't think the Giants had a chance to pick him).
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- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
It certainly would have been more humorous. Indistinguishable from Curb Your Enthusiasm probably.
Agree with the WRs, I honestly would have been more than happy with any of the three, however I think if you watch what Daboll did in Buffalo, Nabers clearly has more of a skill set that he's looking for. If you watch Diggs and how he moved him inside and out, Nabers absolutely perfect for that role and dare I say has more upside.
While Odunze would still produce, I can't pick out a role in the offense that would perfectly fit his skill set like I can with Nabers.
It’s clear, he’s more OBJ than Victor Cruz, personality wise, right? Most alph receivers are like that, which was mentioned in last nights episode.
But they said they like him, but need to do more digging into his personality etc. the fact that they drafted him, tells you everything you need to know. They dug, and drafted him. Over an almost equally talented WR who couldn’t be more clean personality wise.
Clear, the FO was comfortable with Nabers personality.
It’s clear, he’s more OBJ than Victor Cruz, personality wise, right? Most alph receivers are like that, which was mentioned in last nights episode.
But they said they like him, but need to do more digging into his personality etc. the fact that they drafted him, tells you everything you need to know. They dug, and drafted him. Over an almost equally talented WR who couldn’t be more clean personality wise.
Clear, the FO was comfortable with Nabers personality.
I'd be shocked if Victor Cruz didn't go to strip clubs.
My guess here, and why we are seeing more about their Wilkins interest than Burns. The preference was Burns, but used signing Wilkins as leverage. And need to show that in the episodes the Wilkins love was real, and wasn’t just a leverage ploy.
They probably liked Wilkins. But obviously not more than Burns since they could have signed him for less than Burns, and kept the draft capital. But I think the threat of Wilkins is how we went from two 1’s to “at least two twos” to a two and five.
It’s clear, he’s more OBJ than Victor Cruz, personality wise, right? Most alph receivers are like that, which was mentioned in last nights episode.
But they said they like him, but need to do more digging into his personality etc. the fact that they drafted him, tells you everything you need to know. They dug, and drafted him. Over an almost equally talented WR who couldn’t be more clean personality wise.
Clear, the FO was comfortable with Nabers personality.
I'd be shocked if Victor Cruz didn't go to strip clubs.
I’d be even more shocked if the Giants passed on a player because he liked to look at tits.
It can’t be more clear how the Barkley situation played out the past 18+ months. Mara and Co desperately wanted him to be the face of the franchise for the next 25 years, and already ordering the ring of honor signage. And willing to resign him at any cost.
Schoen felt the pressure, and offered more than a fair number. Seems Schoen felt they were close to a deal, and could franchise Jones. And something blew up at the end, forcing the Jones contract.
We know the Jones contract went down to the last minute. I think the Barkley contract blowing up and pivot to Jones deal is what took the ten years off Schoen life.
I think Schoen Daboll like Jones. But would have preferred a franchise contract rather than the commitment. Jones injury, I think is where Schoen feels Barkley screwed the franchise by not agreeing to a deal to allow the Jones franchise tag…
I 100% agree. It's total conjecture of course, but all the pieces fit. It looks to me like Schoen's directive in the 2023 offseason was to keep both Barkley and Jones, and Schoen rightly wanted to sign Barkley and franchise Jones (if Jones wouldn't take a reasonable deal).
Barkley fucked that plan by demanding an extra year or whatever (after signing with the Eables Barkley said he got the 4th guaranteed year that he wanted, i.e. 2023 with the Giants and the 3 years with the Eagles) so Schoen had to pivot with little time to sign Jones to a deal that wouldn't screw the 2023 cap (barley eating up $12 million by getting the FT), but because Jones's camp was playing hardball and knew they had all the leverage (time running out, no more franchise tag), Jone's deal ended up with a big cap hit in 2024.
That's why Schoen kept mentioning the $40 million. He is freakin annoyed, IMO, that he is stuck with Jones on what is now his THIRD prove-it year, except now he has to pay Jones $40 million to prove his worth. He couldn't let Jones walk in FA because Mara wanted him on the team (again, just conjecture, but certainly looks that way based on what we've seen so far).
It seems like others in the organization didn't agree with Rosetti's stance, if they were in fact seriously considering signing Wilkins.
I'm still unsure of the clinical definition of difference-maker, but I'd hope any player they contemplating pursuing in the 100M+ range met that criteria.
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In comment 16550624 christian said:
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Eric, I wonder if Schoen is actually talking about last year.
My subjective, opinionated take is that Schoen didn't really want Barkley back and Barkley didn't really want to come back.
Everything else seems like background noise to me.
i think your first opinion is right and the second one is wrong. i think barkley wanted to come back and was hurt that the feeling wasnt mutual (going back to last summer, and then probably again that the giants never put an offer in front of him ahead of FA).
if schoen wanted him back i think he'd have put an offer in front of him before FA, even if it were just the same extension they'd offered prior but adjusted to the cap increase, the problem was they were so close to a deal last summer i think he couldnt do that without risking saquon would take it.
my big unknown in all this is daboll, if he wanted to keep barkley like it seems like he wanted nabers, i think barkley would be back. i could believe that he wanted to burn the boats and running back to force the shift he wants into a passing team.
I think Schoen offered him what was a fair deal last year (and based on what we know, it seems like it was). I think he personally got frustrated with Saquon's (and Roc Nation's stance). "Took 10 years off my life." Left a bad taste in his mouth.
Saquon's demeanor ever since his final press interaction seemed to suggest he was done with the Giants. The phone call on the show last night was even worse. Saquon was glad they let him go.
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If anything, it shows me that there was absolutely no interest in JJ McCarthy.
Which shows that "a lot of what was reported both in the media and by the asshats" wasn't true.
Except it's a TV show that they have to edit for time. The Giants interviewed McCarthy at the Combine and even McCarthy said he hit it out of the park with them.
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Bowen clearly loves Burns and Nubin.
The slow half-smile on Bowen's face when his name was mentioned was great.
For both.
If Brown does leave, it could be Rosetti or Crowden, but my money is on Dennis Hickey.
I thought Daniels was unimpressive in that interview too. He seemed like a skinny kid talking to a bunch of adults. Seems a bit quiet. Kind of matched the scouting report they gave on him earlier.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
I was thinking the same thing k2! I really wanted Rome because he just seemed like a professional and NOT a diva. Even on the show, that kid is ready to go! Here's to hoping Nabers will not get in trouble in NYC.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
I think Brown was saying to JS after watching Nabers on tape that they were expecting more of an aggressive player in the interview. I think that's where the great WRs aren't choirboy comment came from.
My take is-while publicly the Giants are not happy with the video-they know that's all part of the "dawg" that Daboll was looking for. Perhaps they wish Nabers was just a bit more discreet about it.
I’m very interested to see if Barkley actually did “circle back”.
If Brown does leave, it could be Rosetti or Crowden, but my money is on Dennis Hickey.
I thought Daniels was unimpressive in that interview too. He seemed like a skinny kid talking to a bunch of adults. Seems a bit quiet. Kind of matched the scouting report they gave on him earlier.
The Giants met with him on Easter. They were interested. They were more interested in Nabers.
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I'm not sure Brandon Brown leaves soon. I think he's a valuable asset, but I'm not sure he is seasoned enough yet to be an actual GM. (I also don't think Kafka may be out as soon as everyone thinks... if he interviews like he speaks to the press, boring... I'd like to see what his real personality is like).
If Brown does leave, it could be Rosetti or Crowden, but my money is on Dennis Hickey.
I think Joe thinks of him self as more of a draft guy and would put a guy more focused on Pro scouting as his number 2. What was interesting is as he saw the cap number he went straight to Rosetti not Brown.
Good point on the phone call.
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"We need to get around this kid and see if we can work with him because there is a lot to his personality,” area scout Scott Hamel said.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
I was thinking the same thing k2! I really wanted Rome because he just seemed like a professional and NOT a diva. Even on the show, that kid is ready to go! Here's to hoping Nabers will not get in trouble in NYC.
You can't get in trouble in NYC anymore.
I don't think it has anything to do about Jones. I don't think it's a poor reflection on any of the other QBs. They just wanted Nabers.
Nabers > QB4 is most likely how they looked at it.
I think Barkley, no matter what his representation and whoever else advised him, felt getting paid more than the equivalent of the franchise tag in 2023 and 2024 was the fair floor. I think that's where the 1-2 million apart came from last year. Twenty-two in guarantees was around that, I think he wanted a token gesture above that.
In the grand scheme of things the difference between guaranteeing 22M and 24M in seasons where the Giants guaranteed 82M to Jones, 67M to Thomas, 46.5M to Lawrence, and 76M to Burns just seems silly.
I don't think it has anything to do about Jones. I don't think it's a poor reflection on any of the other QBs. They just wanted Nabers.
Nabers > QB4 is most likely how they looked at it.
This thing is completely edited and the Giants have final approval on what we see and don't see.
So nitpicking this to death is a bit of an exercise in futility.
However, based on what we saw, I think Daboll loves Nabers. My guess is he was the guy pushing for him.
I think Barkley, no matter what his representation and whoever else advised him, felt getting paid more than the equivalent of the franchise tag in 2023 and 2024 was the fair floor. I think that's where the 1-2 million apart came from last year. Twenty-two in guarantees was around that, I think he wanted a token gesture above that.
In the grand scheme of things the difference between guaranteeing 22M and 24M in seasons where the Giants guaranteed 82M to Jones, 67M to Thomas, 46.5M to Lawrence, and 76M to Burns just seems silly.
Disagree. Schoen has his number. Saquon had his. Schoen reminded Barkley about his legacy and his own words about remaining a Giant for life. I would have done the same at the point (it was a last-ditch tool... I think he read the writing on the wall too).
However, Saquon is so overrated. He may have his best season Philly behind that OL. But he only had two really good seasons here. Two.
Daboll telling the other QBs to sling it... DJ needs to take note.
Sling, throw it deep, take chances.
Is this an indication they were/are concerned about the high maintenance rumor (see: strip club video)? Or they think he just has an outgoing personality?
This coupled with watching a ton of Odunze last season and then seeing him in this episode has me really wishing we took him. Nabers seems like he is going to be a very high risk/high reward pick. Odunze ceiling may be lower by a smidge but his floor is absolutely higher by a mile. Barring injury he will be a hell of a player.
Really hope we got it right. All coaches think they can help players be who they need to be. It ain't that easy.
- Much like most of you, I don't think Saquon wanted to come back nor did Schoen want him back. Via Mara's appearance last week and in the "teaser" for next week, he clearly wanted Saquon back. Goes back to a comment I've made in the past about Mara, I don't think he mandates GM's do anything, but he "meddles" by making his feelings known and doesn't entirely stay out of things
- Clear interest in Maye. They may still like Daniel, but they clearly don't like him that much or have long term plans for him if they were that interested in Drake
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
- I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of Hannah Burnett over the next 3 episodes and she may come out the big winner from this. She's came off very well
- Bowen's face when asked about Brian Burns told you everything you need to know about how he feels about Spider. I'd love to play poker against Bowen
- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
I think Barkley, no matter what his representation and whoever else advised him, felt getting paid more than the equivalent of the franchise tag in 2023 and 2024 was the fair floor. I think that's where the 1-2 million apart came from last year. Twenty-two in guarantees was around that, I think he wanted a token gesture above that.
In the grand scheme of things the difference between guaranteeing 22M and 24M in seasons where the Giants guaranteed 82M to Jones, 67M to Thomas, 46.5M to Lawrence, and 76M to Burns just seems silly.
Disagree. Schoen has his number. Saquon had his. Schoen reminded Barkley about his legacy and his own words about remaining a Giant for life. I would have done the same at the point (it was a last-ditch tool... I think he read the writing on the wall too).
I think Schoen never wanted to commit to Barkley after 2023. He's repeated the data on 27-year-olds in each episode.
You don't lose a player you want to keep over the 1-2M gap in guarantees reported last year. And the poor me shit because the negotiations were hard is also a little pathetic. Oh poor Joe, negotiating was hard. Wah.
I think the offer in 2023 was a non-offer, and I don't think they would have matched anything except a ridiculously low offer in 2024.
I don't even like Barkley, but it's so obvious Schoen was doing the minimum to keep the appearance up they wanted Barkley.
And keep this in mind - if the reports are true that Barkley would have accepted 3/33M with 23M guaranteed.
The Giants paid Barkley 10.1M guaranteed on 2023, and then gave Singletary 2/16.5M with 9.5M fully guaranteed. 27.5M with 20.6M.
Again I don't even like Barkley, but he's certainly worth the incremental 2.4M in guarantees.
Exactly why is Nabers a problem for some on BBI?
(And the only thing they said on the show last night was they had to get to know his personality more).
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
Those top three WRs are really 1A, 1AA and 1AAA. Any one would have been a great pick. I preferred Odunze because I think a Larry Fitzgerald type would be best for the team, but just as pleased with Nabers (I also thought Harrison came across really well in the show but didn't think the Giants had a chance to pick him).
- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
It certainly would have been more humorous. Indistinguishable from Curb Your Enthusiasm probably.
I know what Schoen said, but Devin Singletary turns 27 in September.
They made Barkley a big offer last year. Then they franchised him. They publicly said they were not fielding trade offers for him.
Schoen's own words show that he is miffed that Saquon didn't take the deal.
Only on BBI were we focused on other players.
The obvious choice from the start was Nabers. We all should have known better.
We're talking about a guy who some scouts had above Harrison.
Schoen should have taken the "test the market" approach with Barkley last year. It would have been better since the RB market was worse last year too. Franchise Jones and decide if you want to match any offer Barkley got.
I admit it would have been more challenging doing that off of 2022.
Schoen should have taken the "test the market" approach with Barkley last year. It would have been better since the RB market was worse last year too. Franchise Jones and decide if you want to match any offer Barkley got.
I admit it would have been more challenging doing that off of 2022.
I agree with Biteymax above... it's clear Mara uses passive aggressive pressure on the GM. I'm not sure Mara would have OKed them letting Saquon test the market last year (players who test the market are usually gone).
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Some of my takeaways
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
Those top three WRs are really 1A, 1AA and 1AAA. Any one would have been a great pick. I preferred Odunze because I think a Larry Fitzgerald type would be best for the team, but just as pleased with Nabers (I also thought Harrison came across really well in the show but didn't think the Giants had a chance to pick him).
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- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
It certainly would have been more humorous. Indistinguishable from Curb Your Enthusiasm probably.
Agree with the WRs, I honestly would have been more than happy with any of the three, however I think if you watch what Daboll did in Buffalo, Nabers clearly has more of a skill set that he's looking for. If you watch Diggs and how he moved him inside and out, Nabers absolutely perfect for that role and dare I say has more upside.
While Odunze would still produce, I can't pick out a role in the offense that would perfectly fit his skill set like I can with Nabers.
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I agree with Schoen complaining about how hard it was dealing with franchising Barkley. It's part of the job.
Schoen should have taken the "test the market" approach with Barkley last year. It would have been better since the RB market was worse last year too. Franchise Jones and decide if you want to match any offer Barkley got.
I admit it would have been more challenging doing that off of 2022.
I agree with Biteymax above... it's clear Mara uses passive aggressive pressure on the GM. I'm not sure Mara would have OKed them letting Saquon test the market last year (players who test the market are usually gone).
I'm coming close to tagging him with the moniker of "Meddling Mara"
Again, I don't even like Barkley. But it's weird to lose a player you like over a reported difference of 1M-2M in guarantees. If the reason for that is frustration from the negotiations, Schoen needs to find a new profession.
The outcome is weird. He'll end up paying a few million less for Barkley + Singletary at similar ages for the 2023 and 2024 seasons for what he could have paid for two seasons of Barkley.
Again, I don't even like Barkley. But it's weird to lose a player you like over a reported difference of 1M-2M in guarantees. If the reason for that is frustration from the negotiations, Schoen needs to find a new profession.
The outcome is weird. He'll end up paying a few million less for Barkley + Singletary at similar ages for the 2023 and 2024 seasons for what he could have paid for two seasons of Barkley.
George Young was even worse. He had his red line and wouldn't budge. Different era, but it seemed to really bug him that a player would even dare to ask for more money than Young was offering.
I think it's pretty clear that Schoen felt the franchise was already allocating too much money to one running back. If you accept that, his position is easier to understand. Schoen was already above his comfort zone. If Mara wasn't nagging him, it probably would not have gotten even that far.
2. Considerable injury history over 6 seasons
3. Definitely lost speed after knee injury.
4. As I said above in thread: Schoen over Saquon and Saquon over Giants. Both wanted to move on…
I’m not a Saquon hater so I hope he revives his career in Philly. He is in a great situation on that diverse offense. The main problem was he was drafted number 2 by our idiot GM
And for the Giants I hope Singletary has a great injury free season.
My guess is privately Schoen's view is something like:
Dude, I don't even want you here, and the only reason I offered this much is because my boss keeps coming in my office telling me how much he loves you.
The worst outcome for Schoen is Philly validating Mara's perspective. And if Barkley has a huge season, it will be a credibility eroding problem for Schoen in Mara's eyes.
I thought Daniels was unimpressive in that interview too. He seemed like a skinny kid talking to a bunch of adults. Seems a bit quiet. Kind of matched the scouting report they gave on him earlier.
Daniels comment about how he would handle NYC pressure was funny "Well, I did play in Death Valley" ... yeah, ok kid.
Shoen, damn auto correct.
I have always wondered if they did pre-briefs and this confirmed it.
Keep this in mind moving forward before every press conference.
Schoen felt the pressure, and offered more than a fair number. Seems Schoen felt they were close to a deal, and could franchise Jones. And something blew up at the end, forcing the Jones contract.
We know the Jones contract went down to the last minute. I think the Barkley contract blowing up and pivot to Jones deal is what took the ten years off Schoen life.
I think Schoen Daboll like Jones. But would have preferred a franchise contract rather than the commitment. Jones injury, I think is where Schoen feels Barkley screwed the franchise by not agreeing to a deal to allow the Jones franchise tag…
The frustration of dealing with Barkley, calling his Giant for Life bluff, and pressure from ownership all couldn't be more clear IMO
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In comment 16550747 Biteymax22 said:
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Some of my takeaways
- Before the draft I thought the Odunze vs Nabers conversation was interesting. Nabers was everything you want on the field while Odunze was everything you want off it (plus pretty damn good on it). This week's episode showed that. Gun to their heads, Schoen/Daboll took the guy they thought was better on the field
Those top three WRs are really 1A, 1AA and 1AAA. Any one would have been a great pick. I preferred Odunze because I think a Larry Fitzgerald type would be best for the team, but just as pleased with Nabers (I also thought Harrison came across really well in the show but didn't think the Giants had a chance to pick him).
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- I couldn't imagine what a disaster this series would have been with Gettleman/Judge
It certainly would have been more humorous. Indistinguishable from Curb Your Enthusiasm probably.
Agree with the WRs, I honestly would have been more than happy with any of the three, however I think if you watch what Daboll did in Buffalo, Nabers clearly has more of a skill set that he's looking for. If you watch Diggs and how he moved him inside and out, Nabers absolutely perfect for that role and dare I say has more upside.
While Odunze would still produce, I can't pick out a role in the offense that would perfectly fit his skill set like I can with Nabers.
Good points!
But they said they like him, but need to do more digging into his personality etc. the fact that they drafted him, tells you everything you need to know. They dug, and drafted him. Over an almost equally talented WR who couldn’t be more clean personality wise.
Clear, the FO was comfortable with Nabers personality.
But they said they like him, but need to do more digging into his personality etc. the fact that they drafted him, tells you everything you need to know. They dug, and drafted him. Over an almost equally talented WR who couldn’t be more clean personality wise.
Clear, the FO was comfortable with Nabers personality.
I'd be shocked if Victor Cruz didn't go to strip clubs.
They probably liked Wilkins. But obviously not more than Burns since they could have signed him for less than Burns, and kept the draft capital. But I think the threat of Wilkins is how we went from two 1’s to “at least two twos” to a two and five.
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It’s clear, he’s more OBJ than Victor Cruz, personality wise, right? Most alph receivers are like that, which was mentioned in last nights episode.
But they said they like him, but need to do more digging into his personality etc. the fact that they drafted him, tells you everything you need to know. They dug, and drafted him. Over an almost equally talented WR who couldn’t be more clean personality wise.
Clear, the FO was comfortable with Nabers personality.
I'd be shocked if Victor Cruz didn't go to strip clubs.
I’d be even more shocked if the Giants passed on a player because he liked to look at tits.
I have always wondered if they did pre-briefs and this confirmed it.
Keep this in mind moving forward before every press conference.
You know what's fucking gold? Imagine that scenario and swap in the Dave Gettleman!
Not good for Rosetti - ( New Window )
Schoen felt the pressure, and offered more than a fair number. Seems Schoen felt they were close to a deal, and could franchise Jones. And something blew up at the end, forcing the Jones contract.
We know the Jones contract went down to the last minute. I think the Barkley contract blowing up and pivot to Jones deal is what took the ten years off Schoen life.
I think Schoen Daboll like Jones. But would have preferred a franchise contract rather than the commitment. Jones injury, I think is where Schoen feels Barkley screwed the franchise by not agreeing to a deal to allow the Jones franchise tag…
I 100% agree. It's total conjecture of course, but all the pieces fit. It looks to me like Schoen's directive in the 2023 offseason was to keep both Barkley and Jones, and Schoen rightly wanted to sign Barkley and franchise Jones (if Jones wouldn't take a reasonable deal).
Barkley fucked that plan by demanding an extra year or whatever (after signing with the Eables Barkley said he got the 4th guaranteed year that he wanted, i.e. 2023 with the Giants and the 3 years with the Eagles) so Schoen had to pivot with little time to sign Jones to a deal that wouldn't screw the 2023 cap (barley eating up $12 million by getting the FT), but because Jones's camp was playing hardball and knew they had all the leverage (time running out, no more franchise tag), Jone's deal ended up with a big cap hit in 2024.
That's why Schoen kept mentioning the $40 million. He is freakin annoyed, IMO, that he is stuck with Jones on what is now his THIRD prove-it year, except now he has to pay Jones $40 million to prove his worth. He couldn't let Jones walk in FA because Mara wanted him on the team (again, just conjecture, but certainly looks that way based on what we've seen so far).
I'm still unsure of the clinical definition of difference-maker, but I'd hope any player they contemplating pursuing in the 100M+ range met that criteria.