what the giants chose to pay barkley in the past (on a slot rookie deal) has no bearing on what his value was past that contract. last year the giants tagged him at 10m gtd for 1 year, the negotiation started there.
and barkley's contract ask of the giants last year was not a CMC deal. it was less than he got from philly, which also wasnt a CMC deal.
Umm, what? From PFT:
Quote:
Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. The offer was made before the deadline for applying the franchise tag, with the express message from the team that, if the tag were applied to Barkley, the offer would be pulled. Barkley was looking for Christian McCaffrey money, we’re told; that’s roughly $16 million per year.
New York City market for professional sports is a different ball game. Daniels said - well I played in Death Valley and I talk to my family about it.
Best answer - IMO - would have been - I understand that playing for the New York Giants brings high expectations and I have high expectations for myself. If we are losing, I'm going to do the best I can to correct it, be a leader, address things head on, expectations are high. I hate losing.
Instead, he said well I played college ball for LSU.
Again - I guess it's an OK answer. Just somewhat of a cop out IMO. These college kids at big programs are given every single thing to be able to succeed.
Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
seems to have scrubbed the famous picture of Osi Umenyiora cavorting with the half-naked strippers.
It's not going to a club (I mean how many dudes have NOT done that) or even an image that's the problem. I have no problem with him doing that at all. But filming yourself like that with a wad of cash and having it rain $$ bills and putting it on Tik Tok/Instagram? Probably not something everyone would do.... lol
It seems like others in the organization didn't agree with Rosetti's stance, if they were in fact seriously considering signing Wilkins.
I'm still unsure of the clinical definition of difference-maker, but I'd hope any player they contemplating pursuing in the 100M+ range met that criteria.
So now we're not just twisting facts, but reality itself?
Rossetti said Wilkins was a "very good player" but not a "difference making pass rusher".
The team spent more money and more picks on what kind of player in Brian Burns again? was i hearing things or did the bowen describe him as an "elite pass rusher" in yesterday's episode? if bowen felt the same way about wilkins, why didn't they sign him for less and keep the pick? why didnt miami tag him and trade him like carolina did burns?
It is clear that they wanted either Maye, Harrison or Nabers with their first pick. Getting Nabers was the smart pick. I still maintain that JJM was subterfuge to try to get the Pats to take the Michigan quarterback which might have enabled Maye to slide to Schoen. Kudos for trying, but Kraft didn't bite. I agree that Odunze probably wins the pre-draft "character" stakes, but Nabers is clearly the better receiver. Like LT or Laramy Tunsil or Micah Parsons, you have to err on the side of talent first, character second. Mainly because it is virtually impossible to accurately assess character in advance. As the Giants have proven repeatedly with Apple, Baker, Toney et al...
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
Odunze's answers were also canned. He was impressive because he knew exactly what to say to impress. (Think of how you interview when you interview).
Odunze has top intangibles, but let's be honest here, he was saying what he knew what he had to say.
That's still a sign of preparation and taking every part of the draft process seriously. Odunze crushed the combine on and off the field. He did everything he could to raise his stock. That speaks to me on the amount of work he will put in day in and day out for his career.
what the giants chose to pay barkley in the past (on a slot rookie deal) has no bearing on what his value was past that contract. last year the giants tagged him at 10m gtd for 1 year, the negotiation started there.
and barkley's contract ask of the giants last year was not a CMC deal. it was less than he got from philly, which also wasnt a CMC deal.
Umm, what? From PFT:
Quote:
Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. The offer was made before the deadline for applying the franchise tag, with the express message from the team that, if the tag were applied to Barkley, the offer would be pulled. Barkley was looking for Christian McCaffrey money, we’re told; that’s roughly $16 million per year.
Link - ( New Window )
Mike Garafolo and Ryan Dunleavy both reported that to be incorrect and reported the specific details of what Barkley was looking for.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
New: In the end, #Giants and Saquon Barkley couldn't bridge a gap of less than $2 million in both average annual salary and guarantees over the first 2 years, sources said. Both sides felt they budged enough and now it feels like a big risk for both https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/saquon-barkley-giants-cant-reach-deal-ahead-of-contract-deadline/ #nyg
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
The staggering part of the #Giants and Saquon Barkley being unable to reach a deal is how close they were.
@rydunleavy’s reporting is in line with what I’ve heard regarding the spread between the sides. It seemed close enough to bridge as the deadline drew near. Didn’t happen.
"So the question is would you rather have Wilkins at $27.5M/year or Burns at $28.2M/year minus second and fifth round picks?"
Pay Wilkins and draft an edge with that #2 ? I kind of think I prefer that. Wilkins and Dex would be a dominant duo because they would be force multipliers for each other. Who will you double?
I had thought that Wilkins was just not a realistic option. I was wrong.
New York City market for professional sports is a different ball game. Daniels said - well I played in Death Valley and I talk to my family about it.
Best answer - IMO - would have been - I understand that playing for the New York Giants brings high expectations and I have high expectations for myself. If we are losing, I'm going to do the best I can to correct it, be a leader, address things head on, expectations are high. I hate losing.
Instead, he said well I played college ball for LSU.
Again - I guess it's an OK answer. Just somewhat of a cop out IMO. These college kids at big programs are given every single thing to be able to succeed.
I don't really care about the perfect/ideal answer to sound good. I'm more interested in getting the most talented people. And as I have mentioned many times, I don't buy this myth that the NY market is so challenging that only certain players can survive. That expired a long time ago in my view. If you have a good PR and coaching staff, that can be managed for nearly anyone.
And it's a bit bothersome to me that Schoen is drinking that Kool-Aid. Daboll isn't...
It is clear that they wanted either Maye, Harrison or Nabers with their first pick. Getting Nabers was the smart pick. I still maintain that JJM was subterfuge to try to get the Pats to take the Michigan quarterback which might have enabled Maye to slide to Schoen. Kudos for trying, but Kraft didn't bite. I agree that Odunze probably wins the pre-draft "character" stakes, but Nabers is clearly the better receiver. Like LT or Laramy Tunsil or Micah Parsons, you have to err on the side of talent first, character second. Mainly because it is virtually impossible to accurately assess character in advance. As the Giants have proven repeatedly with Apple, Baker, Toney et al...
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
"So the question is would you rather have Wilkins at $27.5M/year or Burns at $28.2M/year minus second and fifth round picks?"
Pay Wilkins and draft an edge with that #2 ? I kind of think I prefer that. Wilkins and Dex would be a dominant duo because they would be force multipliers for each other. Who will you double?
I had thought that Wilkins was just not a realistic option. I was wrong.
at #39 it ended up there were no obvious edges left. the players who went from #39 to the Nubin pick at #47 were:
Braden Fiske (pick traded to rams for #52 and next years 2nd)
Dejean
Kool-Aid
Lassiter
Max Melton
Jackson Powers-Johnson
Edgerin Cooper
Jonathan Brooks
so im not even sure they wouldnt have just taken Nubin at #39.
the miss was the Rams trade because they gave up big value to move up 13 slots, but that wasnt predictable ahead of time.
also if you sign Wilkins as a FA as opposed to a Burns trade, you lose the McKinney comp pick which will probably be around pick #140 next year. Which isn't nothing.
very close call either way, either was a good player to add but i prefer the 2 years younger edge rusher bc i think thats the harder thing to find.
It is clear that they wanted either Maye, Harrison or Nabers with their first pick. Getting Nabers was the smart pick. I still maintain that JJM was subterfuge to try to get the Pats to take the Michigan quarterback which might have enabled Maye to slide to Schoen. Kudos for trying, but Kraft didn't bite. I agree that Odunze probably wins the pre-draft "character" stakes, but Nabers is clearly the better receiver. Like LT or Laramy Tunsil or Micah Parsons, you have to err on the side of talent first, character second. Mainly because it is virtually impossible to accurately assess character in advance. As the Giants have proven repeatedly with Apple, Baker, Toney et al...
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
Nate Solder and Kenny Golloday say hold my beer.
I've been preaching for two years they mishandled the entire Barkley situation. They should have dealt him, and there were offers.
but the pre-brief between Schoen and the PR department was gold.
I have always wondered if they did pre-briefs and this confirmed it.
Keep this in mind moving forward before every press conference.
Eric Could you imagine what those pre-briefs must have looked like with that clown Gettleman? Or maybe they started after that "Rome wasn't built in a day dahlin" debacle because they were like holy shit we have to hire someone to talk to these GM's beforehand.
but the pre-brief between Schoen and the PR department was gold.
I have always wondered if they did pre-briefs and this confirmed it.
Keep this in mind moving forward before every press conference.
Eric Could you imagine what those pre-briefs must have looked like with that clown Gettleman? Or maybe they started after that "Rome wasn't built in a day dahlin" debacle because they were like holy shit we have to hire someone to talk to these GM's beforehand.
He probably didn't think he needed them.
What caught my eye was it wasn't just one guy in the room. Anyone who has worked in a government/corporate environment with a PR department knows the drill.
It seems like others in the organization didn't agree with Rosetti's stance, if they were in fact seriously considering signing Wilkins.
I'm still unsure of the clinical definition of difference-maker, but I'd hope any player they contemplating pursuing in the 100M+ range met that criteria.
So now we're not just twisting facts, but reality itself?
Rossetti said Wilkins was a "very good player" but not a "difference making pass rusher".
The team spent more money and more picks on what kind of player in Brian Burns again? was i hearing things or did the bowen describe him as an "elite pass rusher" in yesterday's episode? if bowen felt the same way about wilkins, why didn't they sign him for less and keep the pick? why didnt miami tag him and trade him like carolina did burns?
I don't have the ability to divine intangible criteria at the accuracy level you do.
I think it's perfectly obvious Wilkins and Burns both fit in that difference-making pass rusher designation. In fact, I hope they both did if they were considering paying either 100M+. Burns is a better, more consistent player and pass rusher. He'll make a bigger difference, but Wilkins would have made a demonstrable difference as a player and pass rushers as well.
I think the nature of this whole disagreement is that you define difference-making as a more exclusive echelon where I think it's a more generic term. And that Rosetti's comment was a bit of a throw away silly observation in the moment, not an official designation.
And I say this in total sincerity, with no sarcasm intended, maybe you could spin up a color coded hierarchy of what words describe what types of players. So then I don't offend your definitions.
I've been preaching for two years they mishandled the entire Barkley situation. They should have dealt him, and there were offers.
Barkley should have been dealt three times. Once in the Gettleman Era and twice with Schoen.
I thought it was hilarious in one of those staff meetings (E1) that they were wondering if anyone would trade for Barkley in the offseason if tagged. I got the clear sense that some of the nitwits think Barkley is one of the great players in the history of the Giants, if not the NFL.
There are some dumb people walking the halls of Giants Way with big titles who should never set foot in a room where the discussion is football personnel. Stick to charity events.
but the official podcast has an interview with Daboll. Not as interesting as the show and mainly acts as a recap, but worth a listen. Hard Knocks Podcast - ( New Window )
It can’t be more clear how the Barkley situation played out the past 18+ months. Mara and Co desperately wanted him to be the face of the franchise for the next 25 years, and already ordering the ring of honor signage. And willing to resign him at any cost.
Schoen felt the pressure, and offered more than a fair number. Seems Schoen felt they were close to a deal, and could franchise Jones. And something blew up at the end, forcing the Jones contract.
We know the Jones contract went down to the last minute. I think the Barkley contract blowing up and pivot to Jones deal is what took the ten years off Schoen life.
I think Schoen Daboll like Jones. But would have preferred a franchise contract rather than the commitment. Jones injury, I think is where Schoen feels Barkley screwed the franchise by not agreeing to a deal to allow the Jones franchise tag…
The frustration of dealing with Barkley, calling his Giant for Life bluff, and pressure from ownership all couldn't be more clear IMO
This is how I view it also.
I think Schoen just ran out of time trying to juggle Barkley and Jones last year (with probably-not-quite-a-Mara-mandate-but-close to keep both), preferred to sign Barkley to a 3y deal (that would have functioned as basically a 2y deal with an option) and tag DJ, and then Barkley held firm at a number that Schoen didn't like, which forced an 11th hour pivot resulting in Barkley getting the tag and DJ getting the bag.
I've been preaching for two years they mishandled the entire Barkley situation. They should have dealt him, and there were offers.
Barkley should have been dealt three times. Once in the Gettleman Era and twice with Schoen.
I thought it was hilarious in one of those staff meetings (E1) that they were wondering if anyone would trade for Barkley in the offseason if tagged. I got the clear sense that some of the nitwits think Barkley is one of the great players in the history of the Giants, if not the NFL.
There are some dumb people walking the halls of Giants Way with big titles who should never set foot in a room where the discussion is football personnel. Stick to charity events.
I have no problem with people pushing back and asking questions. You don't want group think. That's why I actually didn't mind McDonald's comments in Ep. 1.
However, it's very clear that Mara's wishes at the very least, have to be danced around with. The response by some will be, "he has every right, he's the owner." My response to that is Mara is a lot like George Costanza. Every instinct he has is wrong.
assuming Barkley stays healthy (a big if), he's going to have one of his best seasons behind that line in Philly. Mara's reaction to that is going to be as predictable as it will be wrong.
Imagine entering an offseason thinking you have to keep both Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley, and making contract/franchise tag decisions around that premise.
Imagine entering an offseason thinking you have to keep both Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley, and making contract/franchise tag decisions around that premise.
Brutal.
The playoff season made things difficult on a number of different fronts. Jones was still in that no-man's land. They gambled and got burned.
"So the question is would you rather have Wilkins at $27.5M/year or Burns at $28.2M/year minus second and fifth round picks?"
Pay Wilkins and draft an edge with that #2 ? I kind of think I prefer that. Wilkins and Dex would be a dominant duo because they would be force multipliers for each other. Who will you double?
I had thought that Wilkins was just not a realistic option. I was wrong.
As a UFA, Wilkins was actually a more realistic option. Stroke the right check and he's a Giant.
Burns was more desirable, positionally and individual talent-wise, especially at similar dollars. But his availability/affordability was questionable till it wasn't;
Hopefully the next episode shows how they got Burn's price within reason.
Imagine entering an offseason thinking you have to keep both Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley, and making contract/franchise tag decisions around that premise.
Brutal.
The playoff season made things difficult on a number of different fronts. Jones was still in that no-man's land. They gambled and got burned.
It is clear that they wanted either Maye, Harrison or Nabers with their first pick. Getting Nabers was the smart pick. I still maintain that JJM was subterfuge to try to get the Pats to take the Michigan quarterback which might have enabled Maye to slide to Schoen. Kudos for trying, but Kraft didn't bite. I agree that Odunze probably wins the pre-draft "character" stakes, but Nabers is clearly the better receiver. Like LT or Laramy Tunsil or Micah Parsons, you have to err on the side of talent first, character second. Mainly because it is virtually impossible to accurately assess character in advance. As the Giants have proven repeatedly with Apple, Baker, Toney et al...
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
Multiple errors were made last offseason that the team is trying to make up for this offseason.
assuming Barkley stays healthy (a big if), he's going to have one of his best seasons behind that line in Philly. Mara's reaction to that is going to be as predictable as it will be wrong.
If Barkley has a big year and Jones shits the bed, Schoen and Daboll might as well start packing their bags.
Not a lot of talent around him every season. Especially at the OL. That's frustrating as was already being tagged imv.
There was a poster (insider) about a week before the draft who said JS wanted the QB in the draft and BD the WR. BD understands winning matters and things change fast if you don't win enough imv. I think JS feels more secure.
Mara does have his favorites. If JS didn't want the longer commitment to DJ his job is to make the case against it imv.
Barkley conversation toward the end on the phone with Schoen is really fascinating. Barkley's tone seemed odd, or distant, or maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Next episode will address more with Brian Burns. Can't wait for that.
He was definitely butt hurt at what the offers had been. Good for Schoen. Don’t pay for a 27 year old RB when your team is full of holes.
LOL, SB thinks he got booed at the Knicks game, wait until he plays at Metlife next year.
Florio works for a corporate media giant and he is surprised about a pre-brief?
LOL
My take is he thinks journalism should be easy and if you ask a question people should provide all the details you want. You shouldn't have to 'work' to uncover information. It's a ridiculous stance.
The best outcome was Philly gets paid good guaranteed money and chance to play for a proven winner I don't blame him but he did turn down a solid offer schoen moved on I don't blame him like to learn more about McKinney dealings he's the one I wanted to keep
what the giants chose to pay barkley in the past (on a slot rookie deal) has no bearing on what his value was past that contract. last year the giants tagged him at 10m gtd for 1 year, the negotiation started there.
and barkley's contract ask of the giants last year was not a CMC deal. it was less than he got from philly, which also wasnt a CMC deal.
Umm, what? From PFT:
Quote:
Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. The offer was made before the deadline for applying the franchise tag, with the express message from the team that, if the tag were applied to Barkley, the offer would be pulled. Barkley was looking for Christian McCaffrey money, we’re told; that’s roughly $16 million per year.
Link - ( New Window )
Mike Garafolo and Ryan Dunleavy both reported that to be incorrect and reported the specific details of what Barkley was looking for.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
New: In the end, #Giants and Saquon Barkley couldn't bridge a gap of less than $2 million in both average annual salary and guarantees over the first 2 years, sources said. Both sides felt they budged enough and now it feels like a big risk for both https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/saquon-barkley-giants-cant-reach-deal-ahead-of-contract-deadline/ #nyg
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
The staggering part of the #Giants and Saquon Barkley being unable to reach a deal is how close they were.
@rydunleavy’s reporting is in line with what I’ve heard regarding the spread between the sides. It seemed close enough to bridge as the deadline drew near. Didn’t happen.
I am sure you know that amount per year doesn't mean anything. It's the guaranteed money that matters. And I don't buy that the difference in guaranteed money was only a couple million dollars. After Barkley signed with the Eagles, he said he got what he wanted by not signing with the Giants in 2023 i.e. $36 million guaranteed ($10 million from Giants, $26 million from Eagles).
McCaffrey's 2020 contract extension only had $30 million guaranteed (per sportrac and OTC). Now Barkley eclipsed that.
Actions speak louder to me than what Barkley's agents told Ryan Dunleavy.
Rosetti's comment was a bit of a throw away not an official designation.
no shit? how can you not see that the side of this argument in the wrong is the group most aggressively making a mountain out of a molehill in the "not good for rossetti" thread as if it were anything other than the shitty clickbait journalism it was blowing a brief "generic" comment out of proportion?
am i crazy or did you imply in this thread the organization's interest in wilkins was some kind negative reflection on rossetti when his original "throw away" comments very plainly included his belief of wilkins to be a very good player?
so which is it? was his 1 "generic" comment out of a who knows how long meeting "a throwaway"? or was it the negative reflection on him the clickbait you've been choking on for the last week and continue to be implying?
Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
Agree with this. At LSU expectations are high and the fna base is beyond passionate. For the Giants, expectations are low and the fan base quickly focuses on the Yankees when the Giants suck...at least that portion of NY that gives a crap about sports.
When the Giants lose fans don't go to the coaches house and put "for sale" signs on his lawn. I would argue there is much more pressure to win at OSU, LSU, Alabama, etc., than there is to win with the NY Giants.
RE: Brandon Brown is 100% getting hired away next cycle
I am sure you know that amount per year doesn't mean anything. It's the guaranteed money that matters. And I don't buy that the difference in guaranteed money was only a couple million dollars. After Barkley signed with the Eagles, he said he got what he wanted by not signing with the Giants in 2023 i.e. $36 million guaranteed ($10 million from Giants, $26 million from Eagles).
McCaffrey's 2020 contract extension only had $30 million guaranteed (per sportrac and OTC). Now Barkley eclipsed that.
Actions speak louder to me than what Barkley's agents told Ryan Dunleavy.
it is absolutely incorrect and misleading to combine the 2 different contracts from different teams in the way that you are. this was the reported ask last year and it was clearly less than what CMC got in 2020 even with a cap that was 25m+ smaller. if you to believe florio over dunleavy/garafolo that's your right but their respective track records arent on your side.
Quote:
The Giants’ final three-year offer was $11 million per year with guarantees between $22 million and $23 million, multiple sources told the Post.
Those numbers were all within $1 million to $2 million on both ends of Barkley’s reduced asking price.
Either way, the numbers were close enough that common ground seems easy to find with incentives over the first two years, but both sides felt that they had budged as much as they could.
Barkley, 26, previously turned down a contract worth $13 million per year with $19.5 million guaranteed, sources said, because he is guaranteed $22.2 million if he plays on back-to-back tags in 2023 and 2024.
Multiple independent agents described $19.5 million as a non-starter.
Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
Agree with this. At LSU expectations are high and the fna base is beyond passionate. For the Giants, expectations are low and the fan base quickly focuses on the Yankees when the Giants suck...at least that portion of NY that gives a crap about sports.
When the Giants lose fans don't go to the coaches house and put "for sale" signs on his lawn. I would argue there is much more pressure to win at OSU, LSU, Alabama, etc., than there is to win with the NY Giants.
100%. Every single LSU game is in a fully packed stadium of over 100K people, Giants stadium is barely ever at capacity and when it is it’s not even heavily Giants fans but always a lot of visitors. It’s overrated. SEC schools and everyone within the state are nuts about college sports more passionate than NFL fans are.
and after a while in the midwest, have lived for the last several years in the south.
College football generates way more passion than NFL football, and way more media scrutiny for high profile teams. In the Northeast I don't think that distinction is appreciated.
Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
Death Valley is ASU, not LSU. I have to agree with Ryan here. I can see the argument that SEC is a tough place to play (although, compared to NYC?), but ASU isn’t even the most popular program in its own state. And I loved Daniels in the draft.
and man I loved it! I was totally geeking out on the QB interviews, the pressure these kids face just in these interviews is incredible. The Xavier Worthy bit was fun to watch.
I love Nabers, and I think each of the top 3 WR’s is going to be great, but Odunze was an impressive interview. What I liked about the 1st episode was that it really appeared that Schoen was calling the shots, but a few of the scenes were clearly stage managed. That wasn’t the case in ep 2, and it’s clear that JS is calling the shots. Again, no guarantee that he’ll succeed, but at least he’s allowed to do his job.
best part of this episode was seeing the REAL Brian Daboll.
Also, there is no way Schoen has that conversation with the Patriots unless he was interested in moving up. He may not thought it was likely they would trade back, but the Giants were interested in moving up.
The private talk between Schoen and Brandon Brown was excellent too.
That is hilarious. We know he wasn’t interested because he didn’t move up. All Schoen did was let them know that he wanted to know if anyone was trying to move up ahead of him. They basically told Schoen, everybody wants to know that too. Same conversation with a number of teams. Interested parties make offers. Patriots were not moving that pick. Please stop. All of the people thinking the Giants wanted to replace Jones were fucking soooo wrong and this show is cementing that view. Terps must dying. Funny, funny shit. THEY WANTED THE WR and it is obvious.
it is absolutely incorrect and misleading to combine the 2 different contracts from different teams in the way that you are. this was the reported ask last year and it was clearly less than what CMC got in 2020 even with a cap that was 25m+ smaller. if you to believe florio over dunleavy/garafolo that's your right but their respective track records arent on your side.
Dude, it's not me who is looking at the two different contracts combined, it is literally what Barkely did after signing with the Eagles. Initial reports in 2023 were that Barkley wanted McCaffrey level money, and after he signed with the Eagles he said he got what he wanted by not signing the Giants 2023 offer.
My point is only to show that Schoen that didn't screw up by not signing Barkley. Barkley wanted more guaranteed money than what the Giants were willing to offer, and rightfully so IMO. And based on what Barkley got and his statements (looking for the quote, can't find it now) it was a lot more than a couple million.
and barkley's contract ask of the giants last year was not a CMC deal. it was less than he got from philly, which also wasnt a CMC deal.
Umm, what? From PFT:
Link - ( New Window )
New York City market for professional sports is a different ball game. Daniels said - well I played in Death Valley and I talk to my family about it.
Best answer - IMO - would have been - I understand that playing for the New York Giants brings high expectations and I have high expectations for myself. If we are losing, I'm going to do the best I can to correct it, be a leader, address things head on, expectations are high. I hate losing.
Instead, he said well I played college ball for LSU.
Again - I guess it's an OK answer. Just somewhat of a cop out IMO. These college kids at big programs are given every single thing to be able to succeed.
Quote:
Thought it was telling when Barkley asked Schoen straight up, do you go to sleep really wanting this guy on the team or not? Schoen said "I'm torn."
If you say you are torn, you already know the answer.
Barkley's agent*
100%
It was a good question by a veteran agent to put Schoen on the spot
It’s like a girl asking if you love her…if you’re “torn”, the answer is no
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
It's not going to a club (I mean how many dudes have NOT done that) or even an image that's the problem. I have no problem with him doing that at all. But filming yourself like that with a wad of cash and having it rain $$ bills and putting it on Tik Tok/Instagram? Probably not something everyone would do.... lol
I'm still unsure of the clinical definition of difference-maker, but I'd hope any player they contemplating pursuing in the 100M+ range met that criteria.
So now we're not just twisting facts, but reality itself?
Rossetti said Wilkins was a "very good player" but not a "difference making pass rusher".
The team spent more money and more picks on what kind of player in Brian Burns again? was i hearing things or did the bowen describe him as an "elite pass rusher" in yesterday's episode? if bowen felt the same way about wilkins, why didn't they sign him for less and keep the pick? why didnt miami tag him and trade him like carolina did burns?
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
Odunze has top intangibles, but let's be honest here, he was saying what he knew what he had to say.
That's still a sign of preparation and taking every part of the draft process seriously. Odunze crushed the combine on and off the field. He did everything he could to raise his stock. That speaks to me on the amount of work he will put in day in and day out for his career.
Quote:
what the giants chose to pay barkley in the past (on a slot rookie deal) has no bearing on what his value was past that contract. last year the giants tagged him at 10m gtd for 1 year, the negotiation started there.
and barkley's contract ask of the giants last year was not a CMC deal. it was less than he got from philly, which also wasnt a CMC deal.
Umm, what? From PFT:
Quote:
Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. The offer was made before the deadline for applying the franchise tag, with the express message from the team that, if the tag were applied to Barkley, the offer would be pulled. Barkley was looking for Christian McCaffrey money, we’re told; that’s roughly $16 million per year.
Link - ( New Window )
Mike Garafolo and Ryan Dunleavy both reported that to be incorrect and reported the specific details of what Barkley was looking for.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
New: In the end, #Giants and Saquon Barkley couldn't bridge a gap of less than $2 million in both average annual salary and guarantees over the first 2 years, sources said. Both sides felt they budged enough and now it feels like a big risk for both https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/saquon-barkley-giants-cant-reach-deal-ahead-of-contract-deadline/ #nyg
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
The staggering part of the #Giants and Saquon Barkley being unable to reach a deal is how close they were.
@rydunleavy’s reporting is in line with what I’ve heard regarding the spread between the sides. It seemed close enough to bridge as the deadline drew near. Didn’t happen.
4:40 PM · Jul 17, 2023
https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/saquon-barkley-giants-cant-reach-deal-ahead-of-contract-deadline/ - ( New Window )
Pay Wilkins and draft an edge with that #2 ? I kind of think I prefer that. Wilkins and Dex would be a dominant duo because they would be force multipliers for each other. Who will you double?
I had thought that Wilkins was just not a realistic option. I was wrong.
Which edge at #2? They don't grow on trees.
Nabers came across very authentic in that interview. Was honest about losing, and about wanting the ball.
I agree. I thought Nabers came across sincere.
New York City market for professional sports is a different ball game. Daniels said - well I played in Death Valley and I talk to my family about it.
Best answer - IMO - would have been - I understand that playing for the New York Giants brings high expectations and I have high expectations for myself. If we are losing, I'm going to do the best I can to correct it, be a leader, address things head on, expectations are high. I hate losing.
Instead, he said well I played college ball for LSU.
Again - I guess it's an OK answer. Just somewhat of a cop out IMO. These college kids at big programs are given every single thing to be able to succeed.
I don't really care about the perfect/ideal answer to sound good. I'm more interested in getting the most talented people. And as I have mentioned many times, I don't buy this myth that the NY market is so challenging that only certain players can survive. That expired a long time ago in my view. If you have a good PR and coaching staff, that can be managed for nearly anyone.
And it's a bit bothersome to me that Schoen is drinking that Kool-Aid. Daboll isn't...
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
Harrison was impressive in the interview.
Pay Wilkins and draft an edge with that #2 ? I kind of think I prefer that. Wilkins and Dex would be a dominant duo because they would be force multipliers for each other. Who will you double?
I had thought that Wilkins was just not a realistic option. I was wrong.
at #39 it ended up there were no obvious edges left. the players who went from #39 to the Nubin pick at #47 were:
Braden Fiske (pick traded to rams for #52 and next years 2nd)
Dejean
Kool-Aid
Lassiter
Max Melton
Jackson Powers-Johnson
Edgerin Cooper
Jonathan Brooks
so im not even sure they wouldnt have just taken Nubin at #39.
the miss was the Rams trade because they gave up big value to move up 13 slots, but that wasnt predictable ahead of time.
also if you sign Wilkins as a FA as opposed to a Burns trade, you lose the McKinney comp pick which will probably be around pick #140 next year. Which isn't nothing.
very close call either way, either was a good player to add but i prefer the 2 years younger edge rusher bc i think thats the harder thing to find.
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
Nate Solder and Kenny Golloday say hold my beer.
I've been preaching for two years they mishandled the entire Barkley situation. They should have dealt him, and there were offers.
I have always wondered if they did pre-briefs and this confirmed it.
Keep this in mind moving forward before every press conference.
Eric Could you imagine what those pre-briefs must have looked like with that clown Gettleman? Or maybe they started after that "Rome wasn't built in a day dahlin" debacle because they were like holy shit we have to hire someone to talk to these GM's beforehand.
Quote:
but the pre-brief between Schoen and the PR department was gold.
I have always wondered if they did pre-briefs and this confirmed it.
Keep this in mind moving forward before every press conference.
Eric Could you imagine what those pre-briefs must have looked like with that clown Gettleman? Or maybe they started after that "Rome wasn't built in a day dahlin" debacle because they were like holy shit we have to hire someone to talk to these GM's beforehand.
He probably didn't think he needed them.
What caught my eye was it wasn't just one guy in the room. Anyone who has worked in a government/corporate environment with a PR department knows the drill.
Their job is to protect the person from himself.
I'm still unsure of the clinical definition of difference-maker, but I'd hope any player they contemplating pursuing in the 100M+ range met that criteria.
So now we're not just twisting facts, but reality itself?
Rossetti said Wilkins was a "very good player" but not a "difference making pass rusher".
The team spent more money and more picks on what kind of player in Brian Burns again? was i hearing things or did the bowen describe him as an "elite pass rusher" in yesterday's episode? if bowen felt the same way about wilkins, why didn't they sign him for less and keep the pick? why didnt miami tag him and trade him like carolina did burns?
I don't have the ability to divine intangible criteria at the accuracy level you do.
I think it's perfectly obvious Wilkins and Burns both fit in that difference-making pass rusher designation. In fact, I hope they both did if they were considering paying either 100M+. Burns is a better, more consistent player and pass rusher. He'll make a bigger difference, but Wilkins would have made a demonstrable difference as a player and pass rushers as well.
I think the nature of this whole disagreement is that you define difference-making as a more exclusive echelon where I think it's a more generic term. And that Rosetti's comment was a bit of a throw away silly observation in the moment, not an official designation.
And I say this in total sincerity, with no sarcasm intended, maybe you could spin up a color coded hierarchy of what words describe what types of players. So then I don't offend your definitions.
https://x.com/i/lists/1393020765306593281 - ( New Window )
I've been preaching for two years they mishandled the entire Barkley situation. They should have dealt him, and there were offers.
Barkley should have been dealt three times. Once in the Gettleman Era and twice with Schoen.
I thought it was hilarious in one of those staff meetings (E1) that they were wondering if anyone would trade for Barkley in the offseason if tagged. I got the clear sense that some of the nitwits think Barkley is one of the great players in the history of the Giants, if not the NFL.
There are some dumb people walking the halls of Giants Way with big titles who should never set foot in a room where the discussion is football personnel. Stick to charity events.
Hard Knocks Podcast - ( New Window )
Right on cue, here it is.
Link - ( New Window )
Schoen felt the pressure, and offered more than a fair number. Seems Schoen felt they were close to a deal, and could franchise Jones. And something blew up at the end, forcing the Jones contract.
We know the Jones contract went down to the last minute. I think the Barkley contract blowing up and pivot to Jones deal is what took the ten years off Schoen life.
I think Schoen Daboll like Jones. But would have preferred a franchise contract rather than the commitment. Jones injury, I think is where Schoen feels Barkley screwed the franchise by not agreeing to a deal to allow the Jones franchise tag…
The frustration of dealing with Barkley, calling his Giant for Life bluff, and pressure from ownership all couldn't be more clear IMO
This is how I view it also.
I think Schoen just ran out of time trying to juggle Barkley and Jones last year (with probably-not-quite-a-Mara-mandate-but-close to keep both), preferred to sign Barkley to a 3y deal (that would have functioned as basically a 2y deal with an option) and tag DJ, and then Barkley held firm at a number that Schoen didn't like, which forced an 11th hour pivot resulting in Barkley getting the tag and DJ getting the bag.
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I've been preaching for two years they mishandled the entire Barkley situation. They should have dealt him, and there were offers.
Barkley should have been dealt three times. Once in the Gettleman Era and twice with Schoen.
I thought it was hilarious in one of those staff meetings (E1) that they were wondering if anyone would trade for Barkley in the offseason if tagged. I got the clear sense that some of the nitwits think Barkley is one of the great players in the history of the Giants, if not the NFL.
There are some dumb people walking the halls of Giants Way with big titles who should never set foot in a room where the discussion is football personnel. Stick to charity events.
I have no problem with people pushing back and asking questions. You don't want group think. That's why I actually didn't mind McDonald's comments in Ep. 1.
However, it's very clear that Mara's wishes at the very least, have to be danced around with. The response by some will be, "he has every right, he's the owner." My response to that is Mara is a lot like George Costanza. Every instinct he has is wrong.
Brutal.
He's from WV, but he was a lawyer. There is no way he is that naive.
Brutal.
The playoff season made things difficult on a number of different fronts. Jones was still in that no-man's land. They gambled and got burned.
Pay Wilkins and draft an edge with that #2 ? I kind of think I prefer that. Wilkins and Dex would be a dominant duo because they would be force multipliers for each other. Who will you double?
I had thought that Wilkins was just not a realistic option. I was wrong.
As a UFA, Wilkins was actually a more realistic option. Stroke the right check and he's a Giant.
Burns was more desirable, positionally and individual talent-wise, especially at similar dollars. But his availability/affordability was questionable till it wasn't;
Hopefully the next episode shows how they got Burn's price within reason.
LOL
Quote:
Imagine entering an offseason thinking you have to keep both Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley, and making contract/franchise tag decisions around that premise.
Brutal.
The playoff season made things difficult on a number of different fronts. Jones was still in that no-man's land. They gambled and got burned.
Got burned and still doubled down
On Barkley, the mistakes were made last year. First, they had to tag DJ and offer SB a contract which would have simply guaranteed the money from two franchise tags. Which is exactly what the Eagles just did. Instead Schoen played hard ball with Barkley over absolute peanuts while simultaneously awarding DJ the most undeserved and massive overpayment to any player in Giants history. And then, when the 2023 season was clearly over at the trade deadline, Schoen had to trade SB. Not only to get some value for him, but also to at least try to control where SB's future would be. I am certain they could have gotten a day two pick for him from a team like Baltimore or Buffalo, which might have averted his landing with our most hated rival. That ending phone call was nothing short of brutal.
So after two episodes I come away exactly where I thought I would, which of course may be confirmation bias. Mara meddles, but does so in a passive aggressive manner. So this organization will always need a strong and competent GM to ensure that decisions are made with an eye on winning championships, not on appeasing the owner's agenda. Is Schoen that guy? The jury continues to be out. He has made some good personnel moves - pulling off the Burns trade chief among them. But his handling of DJ and Saquon are nothing short of an epic disaster and will always overshadow anything he does until this team wins a championship again. Daboll continues to look like the real deal and exactly what you want in a head coach. But can he overcome such brutal legacy head winds? Time will tell.
There was a poster (insider) about a week before the draft who said JS wanted the QB in the draft and BD the WR. BD understands winning matters and things change fast if you don't win enough imv. I think JS feels more secure.
Mara does have his favorites. If JS didn't want the longer commitment to DJ his job is to make the case against it imv.
Quote:
Barkley conversation toward the end on the phone with Schoen is really fascinating. Barkley's tone seemed odd, or distant, or maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Next episode will address more with Brian Burns. Can't wait for that.
He was definitely butt hurt at what the offers had been. Good for Schoen. Don’t pay for a 27 year old RB when your team is full of holes.
LOL, SB thinks he got booed at the Knicks game, wait until he plays at Metlife next year.
LOL
My take is he thinks journalism should be easy and if you ask a question people should provide all the details you want. You shouldn't have to 'work' to uncover information. It's a ridiculous stance.
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In comment 16550866 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
what the giants chose to pay barkley in the past (on a slot rookie deal) has no bearing on what his value was past that contract. last year the giants tagged him at 10m gtd for 1 year, the negotiation started there.
and barkley's contract ask of the giants last year was not a CMC deal. it was less than he got from philly, which also wasnt a CMC deal.
Umm, what? From PFT:
Quote:
Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. The offer was made before the deadline for applying the franchise tag, with the express message from the team that, if the tag were applied to Barkley, the offer would be pulled. Barkley was looking for Christian McCaffrey money, we’re told; that’s roughly $16 million per year.
Link - ( New Window )
Mike Garafolo and Ryan Dunleavy both reported that to be incorrect and reported the specific details of what Barkley was looking for.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
New: In the end, #Giants and Saquon Barkley couldn't bridge a gap of less than $2 million in both average annual salary and guarantees over the first 2 years, sources said. Both sides felt they budged enough and now it feels like a big risk for both https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/saquon-barkley-giants-cant-reach-deal-ahead-of-contract-deadline/ #nyg
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
The staggering part of the #Giants and Saquon Barkley being unable to reach a deal is how close they were.
@rydunleavy’s reporting is in line with what I’ve heard regarding the spread between the sides. It seemed close enough to bridge as the deadline drew near. Didn’t happen.
4:40 PM · Jul 17, 2023 https://nypost.com/2023/07/17/saquon-barkley-giants-cant-reach-deal-ahead-of-contract-deadline/ - ( New Window )
I am sure you know that amount per year doesn't mean anything. It's the guaranteed money that matters. And I don't buy that the difference in guaranteed money was only a couple million dollars. After Barkley signed with the Eagles, he said he got what he wanted by not signing with the Giants in 2023 i.e. $36 million guaranteed ($10 million from Giants, $26 million from Eagles).
McCaffrey's 2020 contract extension only had $30 million guaranteed (per sportrac and OTC). Now Barkley eclipsed that.
Actions speak louder to me than what Barkley's agents told Ryan Dunleavy.
no shit? how can you not see that the side of this argument in the wrong is the group most aggressively making a mountain out of a molehill in the "not good for rossetti" thread as if it were anything other than the shitty clickbait journalism it was blowing a brief "generic" comment out of proportion?
am i crazy or did you imply in this thread the organization's interest in wilkins was some kind negative reflection on rossetti when his original "throw away" comments very plainly included his belief of wilkins to be a very good player?
so which is it? was his 1 "generic" comment out of a who knows how long meeting "a throwaway"? or was it the negative reflection on him the clickbait you've been choking on for the last week and continue to be implying?
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Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
Agree with this. At LSU expectations are high and the fna base is beyond passionate. For the Giants, expectations are low and the fan base quickly focuses on the Yankees when the Giants suck...at least that portion of NY that gives a crap about sports.
When the Giants lose fans don't go to the coaches house and put "for sale" signs on his lawn. I would argue there is much more pressure to win at OSU, LSU, Alabama, etc., than there is to win with the NY Giants.
Haha. Why? If this staff has 3 straight awful drafts why would anyone want Brown or any of these guys for that matter?
I am sure you know that amount per year doesn't mean anything. It's the guaranteed money that matters. And I don't buy that the difference in guaranteed money was only a couple million dollars. After Barkley signed with the Eagles, he said he got what he wanted by not signing with the Giants in 2023 i.e. $36 million guaranteed ($10 million from Giants, $26 million from Eagles).
McCaffrey's 2020 contract extension only had $30 million guaranteed (per sportrac and OTC). Now Barkley eclipsed that.
Actions speak louder to me than what Barkley's agents told Ryan Dunleavy.
it is absolutely incorrect and misleading to combine the 2 different contracts from different teams in the way that you are. this was the reported ask last year and it was clearly less than what CMC got in 2020 even with a cap that was 25m+ smaller. if you to believe florio over dunleavy/garafolo that's your right but their respective track records arent on your side.
Those numbers were all within $1 million to $2 million on both ends of Barkley’s reduced asking price.
Either way, the numbers were close enough that common ground seems easy to find with incentives over the first two years, but both sides felt that they had budged as much as they could.
Barkley, 26, previously turned down a contract worth $13 million per year with $19.5 million guaranteed, sources said, because he is guaranteed $22.2 million if he plays on back-to-back tags in 2023 and 2024.
Multiple independent agents described $19.5 million as a non-starter.
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In comment 16550880 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
Agree with this. At LSU expectations are high and the fna base is beyond passionate. For the Giants, expectations are low and the fan base quickly focuses on the Yankees when the Giants suck...at least that portion of NY that gives a crap about sports.
When the Giants lose fans don't go to the coaches house and put "for sale" signs on his lawn. I would argue there is much more pressure to win at OSU, LSU, Alabama, etc., than there is to win with the NY Giants.
100%. Every single LSU game is in a fully packed stadium of over 100K people, Giants stadium is barely ever at capacity and when it is it’s not even heavily Giants fans but always a lot of visitors. It’s overrated. SEC schools and everyone within the state are nuts about college sports more passionate than NFL fans are.
College football generates way more passion than NFL football, and way more media scrutiny for high profile teams. In the Northeast I don't think that distinction is appreciated.
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Moreover, I did not like the Daniels answer about playing in Death Valley. Whole different ball game when it comes to playing in a big market in the NFL. Also, he spent half his career at ASU.
I have no issue with that answer. The pressure playing for most SEC teams is not really different than playing in NYC, which gets way overblown, especially the Giants.
Death Valley is ASU, not LSU. I have to agree with Ryan here. I can see the argument that SEC is a tough place to play (although, compared to NYC?), but ASU isn’t even the most popular program in its own state. And I loved Daniels in the draft.
I love Nabers, and I think each of the top 3 WR’s is going to be great, but Odunze was an impressive interview. What I liked about the 1st episode was that it really appeared that Schoen was calling the shots, but a few of the scenes were clearly stage managed. That wasn’t the case in ep 2, and it’s clear that JS is calling the shots. Again, no guarantee that he’ll succeed, but at least he’s allowed to do his job.
Also, there is no way Schoen has that conversation with the Patriots unless he was interested in moving up. He may not thought it was likely they would trade back, but the Giants were interested in moving up.
The private talk between Schoen and Brandon Brown was excellent too.
it is absolutely incorrect and misleading to combine the 2 different contracts from different teams in the way that you are. this was the reported ask last year and it was clearly less than what CMC got in 2020 even with a cap that was 25m+ smaller. if you to believe florio over dunleavy/garafolo that's your right but their respective track records arent on your side.
My point is only to show that Schoen that didn't screw up by not signing Barkley. Barkley wanted more guaranteed money than what the Giants were willing to offer, and rightfully so IMO. And based on what Barkley got and his statements (looking for the quote, can't find it now) it was a lot more than a couple million.