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| Wan'Dale Robinson ranked among top WRs in open-target rate Wide receiver Wan'Dale Robinson has been a popular breakout choice by members of the media throughout the offseason. With training camp now just two weeks away, praise for the 23-year-old has continued to roll in. Pro Football Focus' Lauren Gray ranked the NFL's top wide receivers by open-target rate from the 2023 season, where the Giants' third-year wideout landed all the way up at No. 2. "Robinson tied for a team-high 76 targets in 2023 at a 26.9% clip," wrote Gray. "He led the team in catches (60) and missed tackles forced (13) while recording seven gains of 20-plus yards. In all, Robinson finished with 525 receiving yards receiving and 29 first downs. He has the second-highest separation rate for the Giants in his first two NFL seasons (93.4%), as well as the second-highest target rate (27.5%)." - more - linked below |
Kalif Raymond, Detroit Lions
Wan'Dale Robinson, New York Giants
Khalil Shakir, Buffalo Bills
Rashee Rice, Kansas City Chiefs
Zay Flowers, Baltimore Ravens
Good list but not top WRs
And he was playing with QB's who were not gunshy throwing the ball
And a QB who is willing to throw the ball down the field with anticipation
If the Giants are going to have an explosive offense it will probably be because of downfield throws to Nabors, Slayton, and Hyatt.
If the Giants are going to have an explosive offense it will probably be because of downfield throws to Nabors, Slayton, and Hyatt.
I mean, in theory, all those deep threats should create more space underneath for Robinson to operate, adding another possible way to get explosive plays.
In practice, it depends on a quarterback who can distribute the ball.
I think Robinson has much more to offer. I'd like to see involved further down the field. 55 of his 60 catches were 5 yards or less down the field last year. I've posted this a million times, but I think those looks will go to Nabers next year. Nabers is a much more dangerous player in the catch-and-run game.
I'd like to see him get more looks in the intermediate part of the field, because he's a pretty tough receiver and runner.
I mean, in theory, all those deep threats should create more space underneath for Robinson to operate, adding another possible way to get explosive plays.
In practice, it depends on a quarterback who can distribute the ball.
I think Hyatt has dynamite potential in the 15-20 yard+ plus range. His average catch traveled 14 yards in the air. And my boy Slayton has proven time and again he's a weapon in the 10-15 range.
I think Nabers is going to catch a ton of passes in that 5-10 yard area, and take targets aways from Robinson.
I think the Giants will throw the ball a lot more. Both because they will be a more pass oriented offense, and because the they will convert more drives. The Giants averaged a pathetic 4.5 yards per play last year, and had the 3rd fewest first downs in the league.
I think the addition of Nabers will create more targets for the team in general. I also think Robinson is a candidate to eat into the targets that went to running backs last year.
The offense couldn't do anything, yet Wan'dale stepped in cold and immediately started making impact plays.
Nabers - Robinson - Hyatt - Slayton is going to be a huge problem for other teams to match up with.
Sensational? The first 3 weeks after his return he average 26 yards per game and under 6 YPR. He didn't really warm up until the Buffalo game.
If the Giants are going to have an explosive offense it will probably be because of downfield throws to Nabors, Slayton, and Hyatt.
Exactly.
They let Saquon walk, in part, because that will be the offense
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or more than one could break out this year. The key is the o-line giving them time to get open and the keys to that are Neal and JMS.
And a QB who is willing to throw the ball down the field with anticipation
Exactly. If Jones keeps panicking and checking down to the 5 yd slant then Robinsons target depth will stay the same, and the downfield patterns will once again be wasted.
Slayton is also only 27 years old, why yes is he old compared to recent rookies but he is not that old. He is actually the average age of top notch wide receivers.
On the Wandale front he is an easy breakout candidate. He produced decent numbers with a terrible line and QB situation. Then include he was coming off an ACL and did not hit full stride until later in the year. On top of that with the addition of neighbors and the other guy being down field threats, the underneath stuff should be even more open. I think he is going to have a ton of catches as long as he stays healthy.
Exactly. If Jones keeps panicking and checking down to the 5 yd slant then Robinsons target depth will stay the same, and the downfield patterns will once again be wasted. [/quote]
If Jones doesn't through it downfield we'll see Lock pretty quickly
His routes were not changed with the other QBs. The coaches have him run 5-8 yard plays. It is not Jones. The coaches design plays they think he provides matchup issues for
He has proven he can make players miss and having a viable outside player will make him better
I don’t think he ever becomes a high YPC player but will be a very good and productive player who will move the chains
(TV show of the 60s) - signifying the most important question to be answered ....
In 2024, the Giants (having a desperate need for a "true "X"), drafted Malik Nabers #1 (who demonstrated amazing sudden acceleration and YAC capabilities, from the slot, at LSU).
So, given that Wan'Dale has shown that he may very well be the next Victor Cruz, from the slot, does Nabers still take slot snaps from him ?
OR, could it be that super-fast Hyatt evolve into the "X" we need and Nabers switch to the "Z" ?
One thing to consider is Hyatt virtually only played from the slot in college, and then virtually only played outside as a Giant. So the Giants seem comfortable putting a player where they want him, not necessarily where he's comfortable.
When the dust settles I expect the Hyatt and Slayton to have highest snap counts outside, and Nabers with highest slot snaps count.
I expect Robinson to have fewer targets this year than last.
I expect Robinson to have fewer targets this year than last.
I think they could well emphasize him. He’s the most reliable receiver in terms of being open and makes an easy target. They may use him to set up the intermediate and longer passes by keeping the LB from taking a too deep a drop. I think they see him as a real weapon.
His routes were not changed with the other QBs. The coaches have him run 5-8 yard plays. It is not Jones. The coaches design plays they think he provides matchup issues for
He has proven he can make players miss and having a viable outside player will make him better
I don’t think he ever becomes a high YPC player but will be a very good and productive player who will move the chains
He admitted in the interviews it took several games and, really, not until late in the year to get his legs back. He's completely healthy right now and should be considered a jump.
I think they could well emphasize him. He’s the most reliable receiver in terms of being open and makes an easy target. They may use him to set up the intermediate and longer passes by keeping the LB from taking a too deep a drop. I think they see him as a real weapon.
They just drafted one of the most dangerous catch and run college receivers in recent memory. I'll be shocked if he's not the guy they emphasize in the short game.
Robinson's short, move the chains game is pretty potent already, and he's a handful to cover and catch.
Hyatt can separate up the field and track the ball.
Nabors has range, hands and Tyrek Hill-like moves.
Get all three out there and have teams pick their poison.
Defenses could potentially have their heads handed to them if they stack the box with those three out there.
That's the name of the game, and it will make Singletary/Tracey and Theo/Belly very effective as well.
The offense couldn't do anything, yet Wan'dale stepped in cold and immediately started making impact plays.
Nabers - Robinson - Hyatt - Slayton is going to be a huge problem for other teams to match up with.
I love Robinson, but he's not getting +70 targets getting 6.7 yards per target next year with Nabers on the team. He has to up his productivity. There are too many receivers on the team capable of going 10+ YPT.
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I expect Robinson to have fewer targets this year than last.
I think they could well emphasize him. He’s the most reliable receiver in terms of being open and makes an easy target. They may use him to set up the intermediate and longer passes by keeping the LB from taking a too deep a drop. I think they see him as a real weapon.
They just drafted one of the most dangerous catch and run college receivers in recent memory. I'll be shocked if he's not the guy they emphasize in the short game.
Don’t think they will be using Nabers as a dedicated short game receiver. He’s our fastest WR as well. He’ll be used all over the field, short, medium and long. Sure, he’ll get some of those routes but Robinson is the guy who will be working the short field play after play.
I love Robinson, but he's not getting +70 targets getting 6.7 yards per target next year with Nabers on the team. He has to up his productivity. There are too many receivers on the team capable of going 10+ YPT.
Capable, yes, but I am skeptical if Daniel Jones is the QB. He doesn’t throw anything with anticipation. That is needed if you are going to go deep.
He should be the one who should loses the most receptions to Nabers. Not because he's faster, Slayton is faster; but because he's better at catching contested passes and better at breaking tackles. If he's not the first round "X" that has been missing, all I can say is, he'd better be (at least 70 receptions this year).
One of the staples of the offense the last 2 years has been the slot slant where it sure looks like that look is the first read. I don't Robinson getting that responsibility with someone as dangerous as Nabers.
If Robinson is the dedicated dump off guy, my guess is he's 4th on the team in targets behind Nabers, Slayton, and Hyatt.
Hopefully it's a matter of the tide rising all boats. The Giants threw the 7th fewest passes in the league each of the last 2 years.
Hopefully Nabers = more first downs = longer drives = more chances for everyone.
So our QBs have time to stretch defenses ....
And the running game will be good enough for defenses to respect it. Otherwise the passing game will remain mired in "dink 'n doink" passing mode (no matter how good our receivers are).
I couldn't care less about who's playing where and who's stats are what. Just CATCH it, and 6 yards a pop will move us down the field.
One of the staples of the offense the last 2 years has been the slot slant where it sure looks like that look is the first read. I don't Robinson getting that responsibility with someone as dangerous as Nabers.
If Robinson is the dedicated dump off guy, my guess is he's 4th on the team in targets behind Nabers, Slayton, and Hyatt.
If I were a betting man I’d give you odds on that.
I think a lot of those short slant like concepts will go to Nabers. So what's left is the dump offs.
For him to command 75 targets next year, he'll need to have a broader role, including playing outside more.
So the question is whether Robinson will take away snaps from Slayton and Hyatt outside. Because he's not getting the same amount of snaps in the slot.
I think a lot of those short slant like concepts will go to Nabers. So what's left is the dump offs.
For him to command 75 targets next year, he'll need to have a broader role, including playing outside more.
So the question is whether Robinson will take away snaps from Slayton and Hyatt outside. Because he's not getting the same amount of snaps in the slot.
That doesn’t equate to him being 4th in targets. I believe he will be the central target in the short game. Their go to guy to keep defenses honest or make them pay for not being so. Nabers is an amazing talent and should be #1 in targets. I see Robinson as #2. They will feed him because his ability to get separation and provide easy targets benefits everyone else. Hyatt and Slayton will benefit from that. But they fill a much narrower role with intermediate and deep routes. I think they will be #3/#4 in targets.
Defenses are generally keeping that player in front of them, thus giving up more separation by design. Situationally I think you can swap in virtually an player and get close to that number. Take a look at the Richie James numbers I posted above -- YoY Robinson and James had the same open rate.
All that to say, if the Giants are dumping the ball off in volume to Robinson and not throwing the ball downfield more to Hyatt (or Robinson) and Slayton more, I suspect we'll see a similar offensive output to last year.
Defenses are generally keeping that player in front of them, thus giving up more separation by design. Situationally I think you can swap in virtually an player and get close to that number. Take a look at the Richie James numbers I posted above -- YoY Robinson and James had the same open rate.
All that to say, if the Giants are dumping the ball off in volume to Robinson and not throwing the ball downfield more to Hyatt (or Robinson) and Slayton more, I suspect we'll see a similar offensive output to last year.
I trust our offense brain trust to use him effectively without turning the offense into a dink and dunk scheme. And the other reason they will use him as a central part of their scheme is because he’s the 2nd best WR on the team. He’s a weapon. They’ll use it.
Don’t have that kind of knowledge. That’s more up your alley. I wouldn’t presume. But like I said I think he’ll be #2 in targets. He’ll reliably make 1st and 10 into 2nd and 4 and 3rd and <5 into an automatic 1st down. All the dirty work. Key to a balanced offense.
Interestingly, Buffalo, has been moving toward a more run oriented offense as you see quite a few teams doing. Still plenty of passing but the p/r is more balanced.
More big plays downfield? Run the ball well and and get your QB under center more to maximize play action.
In 2022 the Giants were 10th in rushing yards by their running backs (1673 yards), and were 7th in play action attempts (141 attempts).
Yet they had the fewest passes attempted or completed to gain 20 yards, were 31st in total passing yards, and Daniel Jones had the second lowest intended air yards per attempt among NFL quarterbacks.
I think the bigger issues are 1) Jones's ability for whatever reason to find and execute throws to players downfield 2) and probably a big contributor to number one, pass protection.
Low Rb carries/ypc puts more pressure on the OL in pass sets and another obstacle for the QB. PA game also suffers and you aren't fooling many in long 2nd and especially 3rd downs.
In 2022 the Giants both ran the ball well on average and often utilized play action on average, and the outcome did not produce many long pass plays on average.
We can work backwards from the averages and deduce a few adjacent things if you'd like.
Did the Giants run the ball less and less effectively in the games they lost? That's probably true, on average teams do run the ball less, and that might be both a cause and effect of being behind.
So let me ask you this question then -- when the Giants did run the ball well and utilize play action, did that lead to a statistically significant number of more long pass plays on a game-to-game basis?
I'll do the work for you if you can establish the criteria:
- How many carries and how many yards would define as run the ball well in a game?
- What percentage of total attempts in play action would you define as sufficient?
- How many 20+ yard passes per game would you define as sufficient?
I did. The Giants running backs very likely ran the ball more times and for more yards when they won vs. when they lost. Now that we've established this tangentially related assessment, let's get back to the actual topic.
When the Giants ran the ball well and utilized play action often in 2022, did that create a statistically significant increase in long pass plays?
I think the most important thing the O-line must do is protect the L.O.S. If your RBs are constantly getting caught behind the line, you're asking for a long day.
"Pass-pro" is next, if your QB is getting the crap beaten out of him, (as in 85 sacks in 2023), wins are hard-to-get.
RBs -Take you pick; you like scat-backs - fine, the best was Barry Sanders; you like bone-crushers, OK too, go for Jim Brown/John Riggins
Are you looking for the ultimate "X" ? How about speed, strength, agility and determination; "megatron" Calvin Johnson ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FghPjMxpjjg
They are better equipped to deal with a poor running game (improved WR's/OL we hope) if it plays out that way again. If they have the high quality run game than the pass game will be even more impactful.
I've only seen ONE man who succeeded despite getting caught behind the line, all day - Barry Sanders ....
Till he got sick of it, and quit.
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In comment 16550390 BillT said:
This is actually not true. Nabers is the slowest of the four in the 40:
Nabers - 4.47
Hyatt - 4.40
Robinson - 4.38
Slayton - 4.39
That's a very quick receiver group. I love Robinson on the crossing route as it looks like he can bust it to the end zone on any play. Imagine Hyatt, Nabers and Slayton clearing out the middle for Wandell? Gonna be fun to watch.
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I expect Robinson to have fewer targets this year than last.
I think they could well emphasize him. He’s the most reliable receiver in terms of being open and makes an easy target. They may use him to set up the intermediate and longer passes by keeping the LB from taking a too deep a drop. I think they see him as a real weapon.
They just drafted one of the most dangerous catch and run college receivers in recent memory. I'll be shocked if he's not the guy they emphasize in the short game.
Don’t think they will be using Nabers as a dedicated short game receiver. He’s our fastest WR as well. He’ll be used all over the field, short, medium and long. Sure, he’ll get some of those routes but Robinson is the guy who will be working the short field play after play.
This is actually not true. Nabers is the slowest of the four in the 40:
Nabers - 4.47
Hyatt - 4.40
Robinson - 4.38
Slayton - 4.39
Nabers didn’t do combine drills. Here’s a report on his pro day.
“Malik Nabers further enhanced his case as the top wide receiver in the 2024 NFL Draft with a time of 4.35 in the 40-yard dash and a vertical leap of 42-inches as LSU held Pro Timing Day at the Charles McClendon Practice Facility.”
Same with Robinson. His pro day results
“he ran a 4.44 40-yard dash at the combine and threw up 19 reps in the 225-pound bench press on Friday.”