The guys clearly an offensive genius- if he can learn the leadership part of being a coach he’ll do great.
Schoen- weirdly I feel worse. It’s not that his moves look worse it’s just the body language. He’s more … goofy? … than I thought he’d be. This is admittedly non scientific and perhaps doesn’t mean anything but the initial Blink-like impression I get of him is that he’s a lot less serious and formidable than I thought he’d be
I feel better about Schoen. He seems inexperienced but his path to the roll is positive. He didn't skip any jobs on his way to being a GM and he has grown into each roll.
It's clear ownership voices their opinions. I hope Schoen develops a method for ignoring Mara.
Schoen has a good process. I love that he cares about the data and was not really interested in signing Barkley. He just had to humor Mara. His allocation of resources is smart. The fact that he got Burns for a lot less then he initially thought is very impressive.
The giants owners voicing their opinion on personnel is not anything new. It seems clear to me that Schoen and Daboll are directing the personnel decisions why also hearing what Mara has to say.
I feel way better about Daboll after last night to be honest but would hope he could take some of his "savantness" and drop it into DJ's brain.....because it will be much needed with these WR's and the routes they plan to run.
Schoen always struck me as a very confident guy who knows what he wants. As he spends more and more time on the job, it is clear he is the GUY and he knows he is the GUY. Even seeing the teaser with Mara in Schoen's office; Joe is the alpha.
To be fair I've kind of had it on in the background and not dived into every detail. But I have very little confidence in this coaching staff, front office, and especially ownership.
I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Didn't the Giants offer Saquon $12-13 million per season? What did the Eagles give him? I'm not seeing the disrespect here.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
Agreed about Daboll (although I’ve thought he was the real deal early on), and I too have mixed feelings about Schoen, although now more positive than negative. The ownership thing I’m not in total agreement about. My perception is that Schoen is clearly calling the shots. Ownership has input, but they should.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
i agree with your comments re daboll(better)/schoen(meh) which nets me to C neutral, but i dont think there is a single ownership group in any sport not involved in that same way. and the majority are much more involved/worse.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
i agree with your comments re daboll(better)/schoen(meh) which nets me to C neutral, but i dont think there is a single ownership group in any sport not involved in that same way. and the majority are much more involved/worse.
no owner of any $bn+ asset is going to be completely hands off. the question is if they trust their subject matter experts to make tough decisions and it's clear in this case they do.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
i agree with your comments re daboll(better)/schoen(meh) which nets me to C neutral, but i dont think there is a single ownership group in any sport not involved in that same way. and the majority are much more involved/worse.
But our owner is George Costanza.
he's more of a wet noodle than costanza. and a wet noodle isnt the worst thing in an owner, it's a bigger problem if you have a stronger personality like tepper who thinks he knows everything. remember a few years ago when BBI was clamoring for a forward thinking owner like that?
if mara gets the right leadership in place the team will succeed. getting the right leadership has been the problem.
I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Didn't the Giants offer Saquon $12-13 million per season? What did the Eagles give him? I'm not seeing the disrespect here.
My understanding was that they were a couple million dollars apart in terms of guarantees at the March 2023 deadline. And that was the reason they had to franchise him and pay DJ the enormous contract. And then later in the year, they were still a couple million dollars apart on a multi-year contract, so Saquon signed the franchise tender prior to training camp rather than holding out. In his mind, he was "doing the Giants a solid" on the expectation that the contract he was looking for, essentially guaranteeing the dollars of two franchise tags, which is what the Eagles accepted, would be coming in 2024. So in his mind, he was treated like crap. And Mara/Schoen should have known that and traded him at the deadline knowing they would not budge in their position.
The giants owners voicing their opinion on personnel is not anything new. It seems clear to me that Schoen and Daboll are directing the personnel decisions why also hearing what Mara has to say.
100%, some who continue to say Mara dictates personal decisions don't really know. I don't think so. I believe the new regime is in charge. Of course, the boss gives his opinions.
My wife is a neutral observer who does not know much about the Giants way, but is in TV and just randomly asked me what is so special about Joe Schoen that he has this job? It is actually a good question.
Realize, that Mara is an issue, but Schoen seems to have final word.
More sold on Daboll. He really is a brilliant football mind. Schoen its funny. GM wise I have always been optimistic, like him and think he has the right philosophy though some of his major decisions have not gone so well. I will say this seeing Schoen on the show he seems a little dickish to me the way he carries himself. No so much in dealing with things like Saquon (He completely did the right thing there including his interactions with the agent and Saquon himself) just more in every day conversations and the way he carries himself. Thats fine though its not a major thing, nowhere near Gettleman level and all I care about is how good he is at his job and the Giants winning and time will tell with that.
I feel like Schoen's interest in Barkley was just too appease Mara and never really had any interest in resigning him. The offers always seemed to fall short.
I think Barkley is taking too much heat about the phone call as he probably thought that Schoen was franchise tagging him.
I think Schoen is excited to see this team molded in his vision sans Barkley, but his downfall is going to be Evan Neal and Daniel Jones.
To be fair I've kind of had it on in the background and not dived into every detail. But I have very little confidence in this coaching staff, front office, and especially ownership.
my Costanza comment is in reference to "every instinct I've had in my life is wrong".
right and my point is so long as they continue to be wet noodles, their instincts dont matter nearly as much as the instincts of the people they hire.
that's not the case with the majority of owners who dont give their people free hand.
we are in agreement re their instincts when it comes to the decisions we know they make (hiring/firing). they wanted to hire brian flores as he was drafting a law suit against them and probably would have if joe schoen didnt have the authority to go with his guy.
see the summary I just posted in the pinned thread a about the contract offer.
You are right. Schoen appears to have essentially given Saquon exactly what he wanted and then Saquon spit in his face and took the Eagles deal. So the question is why? My guess is, in Saquon's mind, the simultaneous massive overpayment to DJ with the "nickel and diming" negotiation last year was an act of complete disrespect. He no doubt felt that he was the guy who was truly most responsible for the success in 2022, not DJ. And so the only solution last year was to franchise DJ and either give Saquon what he wanted or let him test the waters in free agency. The fact that he turned down what he wanted in March 2024 leads me to believe that Saquon held his nose last summer and signed the franchise tender, intending to never play another down for this team after the 2023 season.
I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Serious question, but what is so bad about an owner saying he'd lose sleep over losing Saquan? I get that it can be perceived as exerting pressure on Schoen to resign him maybe, but other than that, what's the problem?
see the summary I just posted in the pinned thread a about the contract offer.
You are right. Schoen appears to have essentially given Saquon exactly what he wanted and then Saquon spit in his face and took the Eagles deal. So the question is why? My guess is, in Saquon's mind, the simultaneous massive overpayment to DJ with the "nickel and diming" negotiation last year was an act of complete disrespect. He no doubt felt that he was the guy who was truly most responsible for the success in 2022, not DJ. And so the only solution last year was to franchise DJ and either give Saquon what he wanted or let him test the waters in free agency. The fact that he turned down what he wanted in March 2024 leads me to believe that Saquon held his nose last summer and signed the franchise tender, intending to never play another down for this team after the 2023 season.
I have no doubt SB felt "disrespected", but boo hoo. He was offered a fair deal and got bad advice from Roc Nation. He is lucky he didn't tear his ACL again last year.
I also have no doubt that players are miffed at what Jones got.
My issues with Schoen and Barkley are not the contract offers, but the reluctance to deal him (unless ownership vetoed that). Before that, they should have let him leave last year and franchised Jones.
My spidey sense tells me ownership may have hampered any thoughts of that. Remember what the perception of ownership must have been in March 2023 (not March 2024).
the negotiations with Mckinney and Saquon was the jump in cap. that said i like the group that is building the team and its obv the old guard was getting in the way..
I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Serious question, but what is so bad about an owner saying he'd lose sleep over losing Saquan? I get that it can be perceived as exerting pressure on Schoen to resign him maybe, but other than that, what's the problem?
It is being completely out of touch. Saquon was a scorned human being and "played the good soldier" last year only to get out of East Rutherford asap. The naïveté of both owner and GM is epic here! Saquon should have been traded last October. Expecting him to re-sign with the Giants was always folly. And now we know that what he got from Philadelphia was essentially the same as what the Giants offered. Frankly in hindsight, Schoen should have tagged him again this year and attempted to trade him. At least get something of value for God's sake!
see the summary I just posted in the pinned thread a about the contract offer.
You are right. Schoen appears to have essentially given Saquon exactly what he wanted and then Saquon spit in his face and took the Eagles deal. So the question is why? My guess is, in Saquon's mind, the simultaneous massive overpayment to DJ with the "nickel and diming" negotiation last year was an act of complete disrespect. He no doubt felt that he was the guy who was truly most responsible for the success in 2022, not DJ. And so the only solution last year was to franchise DJ and either give Saquon what he wanted or let him test the waters in free agency. The fact that he turned down what he wanted in March 2024 leads me to believe that Saquon held his nose last summer and signed the franchise tender, intending to never play another down for this team after the 2023 season.
I have no doubt SB felt "disrespected", but boo hoo. He was offered a fair deal and got bad advice from Roc Nation. He is lucky he didn't tear his ACL again last year.
I also have no doubt that players are miffed at what Jones got.
My issues with Schoen and Barkley are not the contract offers, but the reluctance to deal him (unless ownership vetoed that). Before that, they should have let him leave last year and franchised Jones.
My spidey sense tells me ownership may have hampered any thoughts of that. Remember what the perception of ownership must have been in March 2023 (not March 2024).
Then Schoen should have traded him in October or tagged him again this year and at least tried to trade him. He obviously forgot the old adage - Hell hath no fury like a scorned running back!
My spidey sense tells me ownership may have hampered any thoughts of that. Remember what the perception of ownership must have been in March 2023 (not March 2024).
Yup. Ownership has an influence. And while that influence may not be exerted when making a day three draft pick (they'd rather be at a horse race), they are weighing in on the players that help sell tickets, Toyotas, and Dunkin Donuts.
The team's Director of Player Personnel is the grandson of Wellington Mara, and has sons named Tim and Wellington. Let's not kid ourselves about what this is.
preaching to the choir... I wanted to trade him in October 2022 when the Giants were 6-2. But I understood why that would have been an almost impossible sell. I wanted to trade him last year at Halloween.
BTW, the problem with Mara is this... he wants to treat SB with "class" and "dignity" because "we owe it to him."
Meanwhile, Barkley is circling those two games against the Giants and can't wait to embarrass the franchise.
Mara's world only exists in his own mind.
I don't think the show has changed my view on either.
Always figured they were in-charge as a GM & HC should be, but they have to deal with certain morons/voices in the building.
However, until they solve for QB and rectify the mistake they made with Daniel Jones, they won't get my approval. Until that happens they are just a franchise going through the motions each season.
It's been pretty bland. Like the fact that they saw value to the team in Barkley and would have taken him back but only cost provided and wasn't a priority where they were going to overpay for him should not shock anyone. Mara expresses his views on a high profile player but we know that JS goes in a different direction should not be shocking at all. Every owner is going to have an opinion and ask questions. The fact that we know JS made the call is exactly how this is supposed to work. Healthy discussion as you work through decision making is a good thing. I expect a lot of people to read into it as they want. But truth is, there's not much to see here. We're seeing bits and pieces of what is, by necessity, a long process.
I'd say I'm an A, but I was confident in Daboll/Schoen before the show.
Also, I do take the show with a grain a salt especially since we know Daboll played copyrighted music to not be recorded (which I think is hilarious).
I think a better question is who has changed their mind significantly about Daboll/Schoen either positively or negatively from watching Hard Knocks so far?
RE: I don't see how anyone could have any strong feelings on this
It's been pretty bland. Like the fact that they saw value to the team in Barkley and would have taken him back but only cost provided and wasn't a priority where they were going to overpay for him should not shock anyone. Mara expresses his views on a high profile player but we know that JS goes in a different direction should not be shocking at all. Every owner is going to have an opinion and ask questions. The fact that we know JS made the call is exactly how this is supposed to work. Healthy discussion as you work through decision making is a good thing. I expect a lot of people to read into it as they want. But truth is, there's not much to see here. We're seeing bits and pieces of what is, by necessity, a long process.
I think it is funny people say they are higher on Daboll from watching. He was barely in the first episode and spent a lot of the second episode bullsh*** about his current 40 time.
I wonder if those who are more negative/meh on Schoen are just because you are seeing more of him warts and all.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
Schoen- weirdly I feel worse. It’s not that his moves look worse it’s just the body language. He’s more … goofy? … than I thought he’d be. This is admittedly non scientific and perhaps doesn’t mean anything but the initial Blink-like impression I get of him is that he’s a lot less serious and formidable than I thought he’d be
I feel better about Schoen. He seems inexperienced but his path to the roll is positive. He didn't skip any jobs on his way to being a GM and he has grown into each roll.
It's clear ownership voices their opinions. I hope Schoen develops a method for ignoring Mara.
Schoen always struck me as a very confident guy who knows what he wants. As he spends more and more time on the job, it is clear he is the GUY and he knows he is the GUY. Even seeing the teaser with Mara in Schoen's office; Joe is the alpha.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Same old shit, they'll be hunting for their first win in early November.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Didn't the Giants offer Saquon $12-13 million per season? What did the Eagles give him? I'm not seeing the disrespect here.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
Agreed about Daboll (although I’ve thought he was the real deal early on), and I too have mixed feelings about Schoen, although now more positive than negative. The ownership thing I’m not in total agreement about. My perception is that Schoen is clearly calling the shots. Ownership has input, but they should.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
i agree with your comments re daboll(better)/schoen(meh) which nets me to C neutral, but i dont think there is a single ownership group in any sport not involved in that same way. and the majority are much more involved/worse.
Quote:
I feel much better about Daboll.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
i agree with your comments re daboll(better)/schoen(meh) which nets me to C neutral, but i dont think there is a single ownership group in any sport not involved in that same way. and the majority are much more involved/worse.
But our owner is George Costanza.
Quote:
In comment 16550950 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I feel much better about Daboll.
I like some things about Schoen, but have some questions.
But we now know that ownership is hand's on with personnel matters. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
i agree with your comments re daboll(better)/schoen(meh) which nets me to C neutral, but i dont think there is a single ownership group in any sport not involved in that same way. and the majority are much more involved/worse.
But our owner is George Costanza.
he's more of a wet noodle than costanza. and a wet noodle isnt the worst thing in an owner, it's a bigger problem if you have a stronger personality like tepper who thinks he knows everything. remember a few years ago when BBI was clamoring for a forward thinking owner like that?
if mara gets the right leadership in place the team will succeed. getting the right leadership has been the problem.
Quote:
I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Didn't the Giants offer Saquon $12-13 million per season? What did the Eagles give him? I'm not seeing the disrespect here.
My understanding was that they were a couple million dollars apart in terms of guarantees at the March 2023 deadline. And that was the reason they had to franchise him and pay DJ the enormous contract. And then later in the year, they were still a couple million dollars apart on a multi-year contract, so Saquon signed the franchise tender prior to training camp rather than holding out. In his mind, he was "doing the Giants a solid" on the expectation that the contract he was looking for, essentially guaranteeing the dollars of two franchise tags, which is what the Eagles accepted, would be coming in 2024. So in his mind, he was treated like crap. And Mara/Schoen should have known that and traded him at the deadline knowing they would not budge in their position.
100%, some who continue to say Mara dictates personal decisions don't really know. I don't think so. I believe the new regime is in charge. Of course, the boss gives his opinions.
Realize, that Mara is an issue, but Schoen seems to have final word.
She has been impressed by Dabol and Brown though.
George at least had the self-awareness to realize his instincts were wrong.
I think Barkley is taking too much heat about the phone call as he probably thought that Schoen was franchise tagging him.
I think Schoen is excited to see this team molded in his vision sans Barkley, but his downfall is going to be Evan Neal and Daniel Jones.
Lol what a fucking surprise...
right and my point is so long as they continue to be wet noodles, their instincts dont matter nearly as much as the instincts of the people they hire.
that's not the case with the majority of owners who dont give their people free hand.
we are in agreement re their instincts when it comes to the decisions we know they make (hiring/firing). they wanted to hire brian flores as he was drafting a law suit against them and probably would have if joe schoen didnt have the authority to go with his guy.
You are right. Schoen appears to have essentially given Saquon exactly what he wanted and then Saquon spit in his face and took the Eagles deal. So the question is why? My guess is, in Saquon's mind, the simultaneous massive overpayment to DJ with the "nickel and diming" negotiation last year was an act of complete disrespect. He no doubt felt that he was the guy who was truly most responsible for the success in 2022, not DJ. And so the only solution last year was to franchise DJ and either give Saquon what he wanted or let him test the waters in free agency. The fact that he turned down what he wanted in March 2024 leads me to believe that Saquon held his nose last summer and signed the franchise tender, intending to never play another down for this team after the 2023 season.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Serious question, but what is so bad about an owner saying he'd lose sleep over losing Saquan? I get that it can be perceived as exerting pressure on Schoen to resign him maybe, but other than that, what's the problem?
1st year was great.
2nd year was a disaster.
3rd year TBD....but again, I like what they have done. The NFL is hard.
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see the summary I just posted in the pinned thread a about the contract offer.
You are right. Schoen appears to have essentially given Saquon exactly what he wanted and then Saquon spit in his face and took the Eagles deal. So the question is why? My guess is, in Saquon's mind, the simultaneous massive overpayment to DJ with the "nickel and diming" negotiation last year was an act of complete disrespect. He no doubt felt that he was the guy who was truly most responsible for the success in 2022, not DJ. And so the only solution last year was to franchise DJ and either give Saquon what he wanted or let him test the waters in free agency. The fact that he turned down what he wanted in March 2024 leads me to believe that Saquon held his nose last summer and signed the franchise tender, intending to never play another down for this team after the 2023 season.
I have no doubt SB felt "disrespected", but boo hoo. He was offered a fair deal and got bad advice from Roc Nation. He is lucky he didn't tear his ACL again last year.
I also have no doubt that players are miffed at what Jones got.
My issues with Schoen and Barkley are not the contract offers, but the reluctance to deal him (unless ownership vetoed that). Before that, they should have let him leave last year and franchised Jones.
My spidey sense tells me ownership may have hampered any thoughts of that. Remember what the perception of ownership must have been in March 2023 (not March 2024).
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I liked Daboll going in, and I like him even more now. Smart, authentic, experienced, savvy, etc. He has the potential to be a legendary head coach.
I was concerned about Schoen going in, I am even more concerned now and am not at all convinced that he is the right guy for this job going forward. That phone call with Saquon shows a complete ignorance for how badly he handled DJ and SB last year. To expect Saquon to do him a solid after quibbling over peanuts on a contract last year while simultaneously awarding DJ an undeserved and massive overpayment, four times more than what SB was asking for, reveals a naïveté far worse than I would have expected from a seasoned executive. Schoen treated SB like dog shit last year. So he had to know there would be no future here for Saquon if he wasn't prepared to tag him again. The smart move therefore was to trade him at the deadline and get something of value and at least try to direct him to the AFC in the future.
I like Mara as a person and believe he genuinely means well, but I have felt for years that he is overwhelmingly out of touch with what is needed to win championships in today's NFL. His remark in the coming attractions at the end of the episode that "...I will lose sleep if we lose Saquon" is about as out of touch as anything I could have ever expected to hear from an owner of an NFL franchise. Quite the opposite is in order, John. You need to wake up and open your eyes! You lost SB last year when you anointed DJ as the savior and treated Saquon like crap!
Serious question, but what is so bad about an owner saying he'd lose sleep over losing Saquan? I get that it can be perceived as exerting pressure on Schoen to resign him maybe, but other than that, what's the problem?
It is being completely out of touch. Saquon was a scorned human being and "played the good soldier" last year only to get out of East Rutherford asap. The naïveté of both owner and GM is epic here! Saquon should have been traded last October. Expecting him to re-sign with the Giants was always folly. And now we know that what he got from Philadelphia was essentially the same as what the Giants offered. Frankly in hindsight, Schoen should have tagged him again this year and attempted to trade him. At least get something of value for God's sake!
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In comment 16551042 Eric from BBI said:
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see the summary I just posted in the pinned thread a about the contract offer.
You are right. Schoen appears to have essentially given Saquon exactly what he wanted and then Saquon spit in his face and took the Eagles deal. So the question is why? My guess is, in Saquon's mind, the simultaneous massive overpayment to DJ with the "nickel and diming" negotiation last year was an act of complete disrespect. He no doubt felt that he was the guy who was truly most responsible for the success in 2022, not DJ. And so the only solution last year was to franchise DJ and either give Saquon what he wanted or let him test the waters in free agency. The fact that he turned down what he wanted in March 2024 leads me to believe that Saquon held his nose last summer and signed the franchise tender, intending to never play another down for this team after the 2023 season.
I have no doubt SB felt "disrespected", but boo hoo. He was offered a fair deal and got bad advice from Roc Nation. He is lucky he didn't tear his ACL again last year.
I also have no doubt that players are miffed at what Jones got.
My issues with Schoen and Barkley are not the contract offers, but the reluctance to deal him (unless ownership vetoed that). Before that, they should have let him leave last year and franchised Jones.
My spidey sense tells me ownership may have hampered any thoughts of that. Remember what the perception of ownership must have been in March 2023 (not March 2024).
Then Schoen should have traded him in October or tagged him again this year and at least tried to trade him. He obviously forgot the old adage - Hell hath no fury like a scorned running back!
My spidey sense tells me ownership may have hampered any thoughts of that. Remember what the perception of ownership must have been in March 2023 (not March 2024).
Yup. Ownership has an influence. And while that influence may not be exerted when making a day three draft pick (they'd rather be at a horse race), they are weighing in on the players that help sell tickets, Toyotas, and Dunkin Donuts.
The team's Director of Player Personnel is the grandson of Wellington Mara, and has sons named Tim and Wellington. Let's not kid ourselves about what this is.
BTW, the problem with Mara is this... he wants to treat SB with "class" and "dignity" because "we owe it to him."
Meanwhile, Barkley is circling those two games against the Giants and can't wait to embarrass the franchise.
Mara's world only exists in his own mind.
However, until they solve for QB and rectify the mistake they made with Daniel Jones, they won't get my approval. Until that happens they are just a franchise going through the motions each season.
Also, I do take the show with a grain a salt especially since we know Daboll played copyrighted music to not be recorded (which I think is hilarious).
I think a better question is who has changed their mind significantly about Daboll/Schoen either positively or negatively from watching Hard Knocks so far?
I wouldn't say episode 2 was "bland."
I wonder if those who are more negative/meh on Schoen are just because you are seeing more of him warts and all.