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| Former NFL cornerback Patrick Peterson isn’t impressed with what he’s seen from New York Giants cornerback Daniel Jones. Peterson, a 13-year NFL veteran with three first-team All-Pro honors and eight Pro Bowl berths to his name, commented on his All Things Covered podcast in which former Giants running back Brandon Jacobs guested. "I had an opportunity to play against Daniel Jones a couple times — ain’t nothing impressive about him to a defense," Peterson said. "He’s big and strong, but he hasn’t shown us arm talent, like, crazy arm talent." Peterson didn’t stop there, pivoting his criticism of Jones to the quarterback’s mental processing ability after the ball was snapped. "He’s shown an inability to read defenses quickly, to get the ball out quickly, and I just think he has a problem dissecting the 11 guys on defense," Peterson said. "His process is too slow to excel as a great NFL quarterback. He has talent. He has all the measurables. It just not coming together on the football field." |
So the handful of good games Jones has played, those are definitely all him.
The dozens of shitty games he's played, those are due to some reason outside of his control. Does that sound about right?
Unless he has Tourette's, let's call it an "extra tick" since we're talking about time.
Now, that extra tick that DJ presumably needs isn't just an extra tick against the pass rush. It's also an extra tick for the routes, which means that the timing isn't the same as it would be without that extra tick. It's also an extra tick for the secondary, which means that they have an extra tick to recover from the receivers' breaks and get back into good position after the receiver opened up.
The whole offense needs to be on-time, not just synced up to a QB who is incapable of being on-time in the first place.
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In comment 16551897 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16551872 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16551867 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16551866 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16551759 Mike in NY said:
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When they faced the Giants in 2022
lol I was just going to say this. Two of his best games in 2022 against Minnesota and Mr. Peterson.... lol
So would he be wrong if he said Mac Jones and Mike White also aren't very good QBs? After all they also torched the 22 Vikes defense
I didn't say he was wrong or right, and personally I don't even care. But it's fucking hilarious that two really strong games where the guy making the comment and his defense were torched by who he's making the comment about.
You should look up Jones’ games vs Peterson and the Cardinals in 2019 and 2020
Nah. I'm sure that you and the rest of the Jones Obsession Crew have that covered already. Like 557,753 X over.
Jones Obsession Crew. Nice one.
I prefer to call them "fans with functioning eyes."
Yes or just regular fans like the rest of us with malfunctioning egos that have the need to be 100% black and white right - slinking away when it appears they maybe were wrong, coming back in full force and dooshbagging it over anyone with an even slightly different opinion (including very clearly the coaching staff and FO) when things go south. And On 7,853,465 threads every day, contorting in every way possible to fit whatever data they can find to echo the Mara conspiracy narrative, rehashing the same tired comments over, and over, and over, and over again. Cool.
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Cards-Giants game in 2020, Jones was playing on one leg and couldn't move. But who needs context.
So the handful of good games Jones has played, those are definitely all him.
The dozens of shitty games he's played, those are due to some reason outside of his control. Does that sound about right?
Do you really think anyone thinks that or you just want to maximize argument.
Nothing in the NFL is all one player. Ever. Like Randy Moss says at the beginning of the new Netflix series.
Elway tapped the ball. But he could get away with it because he had the rarest of arm talent. And he was fearless in the pocket with tremendous football instincts to buy time.
Jones is one of the most mechanical QBs I've seen in a long time. That's a big negative in the NFL. His only above average skill has always been his ability to run. Which Daboll beautifully leveraged in 2022.
But coming off major knee surgery, you have to wonder how valuable that skill is right now and moving forward.
So, what are we left with?
IOW, it's hard to go through progressions and read defenses when you are facing historical amounts of pressure.
When DJ's been kept upright he's functioned well, including shredding Peterson's Vikings a couple times in 2022.
Clearly the Giants think there's at least a chance he can be a good QB if the things around him stop being a catastrophe.
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In comment 16551945 Toth029 said:
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Cards-Giants game in 2020, Jones was playing on one leg and couldn't move. But who needs context.
So the handful of good games Jones has played, those are definitely all him.
The dozens of shitty games he's played, those are due to some reason outside of his control. Does that sound about right?
Do you really think anyone thinks that or you just want to maximize argument.
Nothing in the NFL is all one player. Ever. Like Randy Moss says at the beginning of the new Netflix series.
I absolutely think there are at least a handful of fans right here on BBI who will rattle off an excuse for every single DJ misstep but credit him entirely for his rare successes.
The 2022 playoffs are a perfect microcosm of that: DJ's most ardent enthusiasts will gleefully celebrate the Minnesota victory without acknowledging how bad that defense was or how some other mediocre QBs (like Mike White and Mac Jones) had torched them that same year, but as soon as anyone brings up the Philly game a week later, they'll start rattling off every player besides Jones who played poorly. Jones gets credit for the victory; his teammates take the fall for the defeat.
I don't really concern myself with Moss's statement (though I do agree with it) because I'm not claiming those fans are correct. I'm merely stating that their POV exists.
Have you considered how the inability to read defenses and go through progressions makes pass rush pressure worse?
When DJ's been kept upright he's functioned well, including shredding Peterson's Vikings a couple times in 2022.
Do you have to be reminded what a sieve that Minnesota D was all of 2022?
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IOW, it's hard to go through progressions and read defenses when you are facing historical amounts of pressure
Have you considered how the inability to read defenses and go through progressions makes pass rush pressure worse?
Yes I have, but that's generally not what I see. The Giants have a terrible Offensive Line and it makes it tough on the run and pass game to operate.
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In comment 16551982 mittenedman said:
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IOW, it's hard to go through progressions and read defenses when you are facing historical amounts of pressure
Have you considered how the inability to read defenses and go through progressions makes pass rush pressure worse?
Yes I have, but that's generally not what I see. The Giants have a terrible Offensive Line and it makes it tough on the run and pass game to operate.
I fully agree that the OL has been dogshit. I just think having a slow-processing QB behind a dogshit OL makes things exponentially worse.
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IOW, it's hard to go through progressions and read defenses when you are facing historical amounts of pressure
Have you considered how the inability to read defenses and go through progressions makes pass rush pressure worse?
Yep. You are right. The line was pretty good. It was Jones and those silly ticks. Especially with Ezeudu at Left Tackle. Actually that plan to keep Peart but put Ezeudu at LT when Thomas went down? * Chef's Kiss *
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In comment 16551982 mittenedman said:
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IOW, it's hard to go through progressions and read defenses when you are facing historical amounts of pressure
Have you considered how the inability to read defenses and go through progressions makes pass rush pressure worse?
Yep. You are right. The line was pretty good. It was Jones and those silly ticks. Especially with Ezeudu at Left Tackle. Actually that plan to keep Peart but put Ezeudu at LT when Thomas went down? * Chef's Kiss *
No one is saying they're good. Unlike you, I'm capable of seeing things outside of a zero-sum lens.
The OL has been awful, and would be incapable of protecting any QB. DJ has been bad also, and would be a liability behind any OL.
Somehow DJ enthusiasts think that everyone is operating with the same excuse-making mindset that they do. When I mention DJ's flaws, it's not because I'm trying to defend the OL. I think the OL sucks too. But I also see the Giants actually trying to upgrade the OL, which is more than anyone can say about the Giants' QB position in half a decade.
Didn't take long for a couple of DJ enthusiasts to prove my point.
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In comment 16551909 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16551897 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16551872 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16551867 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16551866 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16551759 Mike in NY said:
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When they faced the Giants in 2022
lol I was just going to say this. Two of his best games in 2022 against Minnesota and Mr. Peterson.... lol
So would he be wrong if he said Mac Jones and Mike White also aren't very good QBs? After all they also torched the 22 Vikes defense
I didn't say he was wrong or right, and personally I don't even care. But it's fucking hilarious that two really strong games where the guy making the comment and his defense were torched by who he's making the comment about.
You should look up Jones’ games vs Peterson and the Cardinals in 2019 and 2020
Nah. I'm sure that you and the rest of the Jones Obsession Crew have that covered already. Like 557,753 X over.
Jones Obsession Crew. Nice one.
I prefer to call them "fans with functioning eyes."
Yes or just regular fans like the rest of us with malfunctioning egos that have the need to be 100% black and white right - slinking away when it appears they maybe were wrong, coming back in full force and dooshbagging it over anyone with an even slightly different opinion (including very clearly the coaching staff and FO) when things go south. And On 7,853,465 threads every day, contorting in every way possible to fit whatever data they can find to echo the Mara conspiracy narrative, rehashing the same tired comments over, and over, and over, and over again. Cool.
And your in 7, 853, 454 threads to bitch about what others are talking about
Nah. I'm sure that you and the rest of the Jones Obsession Crew have that covered already. Like 557,753 X over.
You seem upset
Should Jones’ games against Minnesota not count then because Peterson was 33?
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not wrong. Still wouldn’t be surprised if Prescott is the Giants QB next season.
I’m gonna barf.
The thought of Dak as our QB is about as appealing as McCarthy being our HC. While Judge turned out to be a fraud, still glad Mara didn't bring MM onboard.
Do you have to be reminded what a sieve that Minnesota D was all of 2022?
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Do you have to be reminded what a sieve that Minnesota D was all of 2022?
Nor do you need to be reminded how bad the Giants OL and receivers were (our WR1 joined us off another team's practice squad mid-year!): that's why it gave us a chance to see Daniel Jones in a fair fight.
Fortunately, we didn't need good OL or great receivers to beat Minnesota because they were 31st in yards allowed, 31st in passing yard allowed and 30th in points allowed.
They were a statistical anomaly in 2022 by even making the playoffs.
I am so tired of hearing about 2022. It was a mediocre season. It was just a significant improvement over his previous 2 seasons. I've said it a million times to rebut the inevitable, "but what about his rushing stats?"...even if you add his rushing yards and TDs to his passing numbers, he doesn't crack the top 10 of QBs using ONLY their passing numbers. So, wat about his rushing?
Did someone force you to open it?
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In comment 16551996 bw in dc said:
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Do you have to be reminded what a sieve that Minnesota D was all of 2022?
Nor do you need to be reminded how bad the Giants OL and receivers were (our WR1 joined us off another team's practice squad mid-year!): that's why it gave us a chance to see Daniel Jones in a fair fight.
Fortunately, we didn't need good OL or great receivers to beat Minnesota because they were 31st in yards allowed, 31st in passing yard allowed and 30th in points allowed.
They were a statistical anomaly in 2022 by even making the playoffs.
Or we got to see Jones going up against a defense that was equal to him.
^ See what I did there?
In 2022, Mac Jones, former first round pick and now NFL back-up, marched into Minnesota and lit them up for nearly 400 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and nearly 10 YPA.
For FY 2022, Mac Jones finished 28th in the NFL in QBR, 25th in passing TDs, 26th in YPA, and tied for 5th in INTs.
In other words, even during a pathetic season of performance, Mac Jones looked competent against that hideous Vikings D.
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Which is what made it a fair fight! We got to see Daniel Jones going up against defenders that were the equal of his protection and receivers.
In 2022, Mac Jones, former first round pick and now NFL back-up, marched into Minnesota and lit them up for nearly 400 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and nearly 10 YPA.
For FY 2022, Mac Jones finished 28th in the NFL in QBR, 25th in passing TDs, 26th in YPA, and tied for 5th in INTs.
In other words, even during a pathetic season of performance, Mac Jones looked competent against that hideous Vikings D.
In other words, even during a very good season of performance, Daniel Jones was competent against the league beyond that hideous Vikings D.
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In comment 16551996 bw in dc said:
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Do you have to be reminded what a sieve that Minnesota D was all of 2022?
Nor do you need to be reminded how bad the Giants OL and receivers were (our WR1 joined us off another team's practice squad mid-year!): that's why it gave us a chance to see Daniel Jones in a fair fight.
Fortunately, we didn't need good OL or great receivers to beat Minnesota because they were 31st in yards allowed, 31st in passing yard allowed and 30th in points allowed.
They were a statistical anomaly in 2022 by even making the playoffs.
State of the NFC that year.
Philly msde the Super Bowl by beating the 2022 Giants (not a good team stated by many here) and a QB-less 49ers.
We can sit here and gossip all day about Jones but truthfully, a lot of NFL players are also shitheads and dumb. Tyreek Hill says Tua and Baker are top 5 QB's. We clearly know they're not. What Peterson said is regurgitated on BBI how many times now by normal ass fans. And there's posters who get bent out of shape when others bring up Jones stomping said player's defense twice in the same year.
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Which is what made it a fair fight! We got to see Daniel Jones going up against defenders that were the equal of his protection and receivers.
Or we got to see Jones going up against a defense that was equal to him.
^ See what I did there?
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Which is what made it a fair fight! We got to see Daniel Jones going up against defenders that were the equal of his protection and receivers.
In 2022, Mac Jones, former first round pick and now NFL back-up, marched into Minnesota and lit them up for nearly 400 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and nearly 10 YPA.
For FY 2022, Mac Jones finished 28th in the NFL in QBR, 25th in passing TDs, 26th in YPA, and tied for 5th in INTs.
In other words, even during a pathetic season of performance, Mac Jones looked competent against that hideous Vikings D.
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In comment 16552161 Milton said:
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In comment 16551996 bw in dc said:
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Do you have to be reminded what a sieve that Minnesota D was all of 2022?
Nor do you need to be reminded how bad the Giants OL and receivers were (our WR1 joined us off another team's practice squad mid-year!): that's why it gave us a chance to see Daniel Jones in a fair fight.
Fortunately, we didn't need good OL or great receivers to beat Minnesota because they were 31st in yards allowed, 31st in passing yard allowed and 30th in points allowed.
They were a statistical anomaly in 2022 by even making the playoffs.
State of the NFC that year.
Philly msde the Super Bowl by beating the 2022 Giants (not a good team stated by many here) and a QB-less 49ers.
We can sit here and gossip all day about Jones but truthfully, a lot of NFL players are also shitheads and dumb. Tyreek Hill says Tua and Baker are top 5 QB's. We clearly know they're not. What Peterson said is regurgitated on BBI how many times now by normal ass fans. And there's posters who get bent out of shape when others bring up Jones stomping said player's defense twice in the same year.
I'm old enough to remember when Tiki criticized Eli and his leadership skills.
In other words, even during a very good season of performance, Daniel Jones was competent against the league beyond that hideous Vikings D.
For your edification, QBR includes running performance. Jones ran extremely well in 2022 and that's what elevated his QBR. In the passing component, Jones was 13th.
NYG was 16th in PPG. How is that above average?
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In comment 16552214 Milton said:
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Which is what made it a fair fight! We got to see Daniel Jones going up against defenders that were the equal of his protection and receivers.
In 2022, Mac Jones, former first round pick and now NFL back-up, marched into Minnesota and lit them up for nearly 400 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and nearly 10 YPA.
For FY 2022, Mac Jones finished 28th in the NFL in QBR, 25th in passing TDs, 26th in YPA, and tied for 5th in INTs.
In other words, even during a pathetic season of performance, Mac Jones looked competent against that hideous Vikings D.
For the FY 2022, Daniel Jones finished 6th in the NFL in QBR, led an above-average scoring offense, and had the best Int%.
In other words, even during a very good season of performance, Daniel Jones was competent against the league beyond that hideous Vikings D.
That's what the team doubled down on: competence.
Or we got to see Jones going up against a defense that was equal to him.
^ See what I did there?
I see exactly what you did. You pretended you were too stupid to understand my point rather than address it. Translation: you admitted I was right.
Yes Milton you were right. Just like your were right about the Giants winning a Super Bowl with some huge percentage of Gettleman players. And you are probably right about Darren Waller making an 11th hour return to the roster after skipping camp.
Your batting average is something to marvel.
So sure, Peterson is right, Daniel has some problems with pocket presence, processing and everybody on BBI knows that. But Peterson also knows what Daniel did to his own defense the previous two times they met. To me, it's whatever. On Jacobs' podcast, he could have laid it out better and said he does have problems like many QB's do, and needs to improve on x and x. And talked about what Daniel did in those Viking games where Peterson and his DB's looked like they didn't belong on the field.
So sure, Peterson is right, Daniel has some problems with pocket presence, processing and everybody on BBI knows that. But Peterson also knows what Daniel did to his own defense the previous two times they met. To me, it's whatever. On Jacobs' podcast, he could have laid it out better and said he does have problems like many QB's do, and needs to improve on x and x. And talked about what Daniel did in those Viking games where Peterson and his DB's looked like they didn't belong on the field.
Again if Peterson said the same things about Mac Jones, would anyone be jumping to defend him because Mac also lit him up?
I doubt it
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For the FY 2022, Daniel Jones finished 6th in the NFL in QBR, led an above-average scoring offense, and had the best Int%.
In other words, even during a very good season of performance, Daniel Jones was competent against the league beyond that hideous Vikings D.
For your edification, QBR includes running performance. Jones ran extremely well in 2022 and that's what elevated his QBR. In the passing component, Jones was 13th.
NYG was 16th in PPG. How is that above average?
His EPA was rated 13th, too.
Kevin Cole uses something different than a direct EPA stat and uses the receivers he is throwing to, scheme, blocking, strength of schedule, luck (drops, INTs and fumbles) and weather.
It has Jones listed 5th. Notice Jones and Hurts have a similar actual EPA but Hurts was helped immensely by his line and Smith/Brown, therefore was docked for it.
Kevin Cole's chart - ( New Window )
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Remember it was Ronde who took some remarks directed to Eli back prior to their playoff game. After Eli and the Giants dominated them, Ronde didn't really back off or anything but said we're all professionals, they don't need us to make them play better. Essentially some players, notably DB's and WR's, run their mouths a lot and tend to shut up when proven wrong.
So sure, Peterson is right, Daniel has some problems with pocket presence, processing and everybody on BBI knows that. But Peterson also knows what Daniel did to his own defense the previous two times they met. To me, it's whatever. On Jacobs' podcast, he could have laid it out better and said he does have problems like many QB's do, and needs to improve on x and x. And talked about what Daniel did in those Viking games where Peterson and his DB's looked like they didn't belong on the field.
Again if Peterson said the same things about Mac Jones, would anyone be jumping to defend him because Mac also lit him up?
I doubt it
If Mac lit their ass up in a playoff game? Absolutely. It makes Peterson look little. You can analyze a player and dissect their deficiencies, we've done it non stop.
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In comment 16552214 Milton said:
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Which is what made it a fair fight! We got to see Daniel Jones going up against defenders that were the equal of his protection and receivers.
In 2022, Mac Jones, former first round pick and now NFL back-up, marched into Minnesota and lit them up for nearly 400 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and nearly 10 YPA.
For FY 2022, Mac Jones finished 28th in the NFL in QBR, 25th in passing TDs, 26th in YPA, and tied for 5th in INTs.
In other words, even during a pathetic season of performance, Mac Jones looked competent against that hideous Vikings D.
For the FY 2022, Daniel Jones finished 6th in the NFL in QBR, led an above-average scoring offense, and had the best Int%.
In other words, even during a very good season of performance, Daniel Jones was competent against the league beyond that hideous Vikings D.
The NFL average points scored by team in 2022 was 371. The Giants scored 365.
You might want to learn what "above average" means.
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In comment 16552214 Milton said:
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Which is what made it a fair fight! We got to see Daniel Jones going up against defenders that were the equal of his protection and receivers.
In 2022, Mac Jones, former first round pick and now NFL back-up, marched into Minnesota and lit them up for nearly 400 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and nearly 10 YPA.
For FY 2022, Mac Jones finished 28th in the NFL in QBR, 25th in passing TDs, 26th in YPA, and tied for 5th in INTs.
In other words, even during a pathetic season of performance, Mac Jones looked competent against that hideous Vikings D.
The Patriots lost that game. Meanwhile, in two games against the Vikings that year, Aaron Rodgers couldn't top 200 yards in either of them (one of which was a loss). Daniel Jones, Mac Jones, Aaron Rodgers: three peas in a pod according to your logic. And neither Mac nor Aaron could claim to have nearly as pitiful a set of receivers nor as porous an offensive line. Why is it so impossible for people on BBI to concede a point? Instead you opt for irrelevant misdirection.
Embarrassing.
There are positive and negative signals in the advanced metrics, so I am not inclined to project a big swing either way in 2024.
So sure, Peterson is right, Daniel has some problems with pocket presence, processing and everybody on BBI knows that. But Peterson also knows what Daniel did to his own defense the previous two times they met. To me, it's whatever. On Jacobs' podcast, he could have laid it out better and said he does have problems like many QB's do, and needs to improve on x and x. And talked about what Daniel did in those Viking games where Peterson and his DB's looked like they didn't belong on the field.
Exactly! I don't take what other players say as gospel. We have all these former players that have different opinions when watching the same game film. We just tend to site the ones that fit our own narrative here.
Golf clap.
Speaking of regular fans that support their team and players, I’ve reached a point where I’m torn. Torn between wanting to see Jones make these posters slink away again and finding a new QB that plays a brand of football I may enjoy more.
Obviously winning is what matters but as I age I find that I prefer a brand of football and QB play, that may never return. I enjoyed Jones style his rookie year. He was aggressive. I appreciate the improvements he’s made from a TO% but I hope Daboll can get him to “let it rip” again.
I do not enjoy the “chicken with it’s head cut off” brand that seems to be taking over. Yes Mahomes magic can be fun but can we ever get back to routinely hitting a 15 yard dig off a perfectly timed and blocked 5 step drop?
Cousins