I think it's pretty clear the Giants want more productivity out of there passing attack, have steadily invested in more dangerous pass targets, while investing less in the running game. Not to mention penciling in Jones who was a big part of the running game, returning from a torn ACL.
There are a few eye-opening things to remember about 2022. Out of a debate yesterday, I pulled the numbers around some conventional thinking that running the ball better and play action is the key to opening up big pass plays. That led me down a rabbit hole on some of other numbers.
Just to be crystal clear, I don't think any of this is causal, just some correlative figures, to engage in debate. But running the ball well and utilizing play action certainly didn't open up the pass game.
- The Giants were 4th in the NFL with 170 play action pass attempts, but 19th in yards generated on those attempts
- The Giants were 5th in rushing, and 10th in rushing by running backs, so all-in-all a good running team
- But the Giants were last in the NFL with only 28 pass plays of 20+ yards
- They had the second lowest percentage of passes attempted over 20 yards in the NFL at less than 5%
- They were 26th in passing TDs
- The Giants were 1 of 2 teams to have 3 pass catchers rank in the top 50 in open rate
On average, the Giants ran the ball well, the pass catchers were pretty good at getting open, and the Giants couldn't get the ball down the field through the air.
To me that leaves 2 variables 1) pass protection 2) Quarterback. Which of those was the primary issue I think is the biggest question of the coming season.
The pass catchers are unquestionably more talented now, and the running game presumably less talented.
BTW, BUFF was 5th in pass attempts that year, 13th in rushing attempts.
BTW, BUFF was 5th in pass attempts that year, 13th in rushing attempts.
Just to be clear, I am not predicting the Giants offense will be similar to the 2022 Giants.
What I am looking into is any correlative relationships that might explain why the Giants completed so few chances down the field.
The conventional wisdom is if you run the ball well consistently, that should open up the pass game. Take this for what it's worth, but the Giants completed double the amount of 20+ plays the 2nd half of the year when they allegedly (falsely) didn't have a good run game.
RB production:
Det 18c/39y/2.1
Dallas 19c/76y/4.0
WFT 18c/63y/3.5
Philly 17c/57y/3.5
WFT 20c/93. Last drive SB 6/48y. 55 yards total. Prior to that: RB's 14c/41y/2.9
Minny 17c/92/5.4
Indy: 27c/125y/4.6
Average: 19c/77y/4.0 Indy also packed it in but I counted it.
Not very impressive (carries/yds/ypc) especially factoring in a lesser pass game . I also highly value RB production. DJ had the highest number of third down conversions with runs...which was needed but not optimal.
Those numbers you are harping on are very close to SF and Detroit with one exception...98 percent is with the RB's which totally impacts the pass game. Sign me up for that type of running game.
So in this thread we've established:
1) In the first half of the season where the Giants according to you had a good running game, the Giants completed fewer long passes.
2) All those years you went on and on about 4.2 yards per rush and 30 rushes, what you really meant was 4.2 YPR and 30 carries by running backs?
3) For some magical undefined reason, yards accrued by running backs count more.
About the same production of Det/SF who also did it with the RB's.
Not a fan of very high volume QB rushing offenses.
I have had to deal with years of seeing your low level data analysis like on this thread and of course the "fairy tale stories."
I think what you're struggling to articulate is that you prefer a team that runs the ball primarily with their running backs and not the quarterback.
Probably best you go back to work, and I continue drinking my lemonade on the deck.
But that as it relates to the actual point of the thread, which is the relationship between the run game and longer passes in 2022, nothing you've posted applies.
I prefer you go back to work so you can afford that Ferrari one day that you did say you can't afford....
Keep those stories coming. Great entertainment.
I am glad we've established 4.5 yards per rush and 30 rushes is the benchmark. You know what's better than that? 4.7 yards per rush and 30 rushes.
I knew you could come around on this basic math.
christian : 2/27/2024 10:49 am : link
I view college for my son like any other commercial purchase. He's a great kid, works hard, and I want the best for him. But when the time comes to get his first car, he's getting the Volvo, not a new Ferrari. We can't afford a Ferrari. Mind you, my son is 2.
With some good investments, cashing out some equity in my former companies, and smart planning we have a comfortable life and I was able to stop working right before I turned 41 last year. As I've offered to you many times, I have a small advisory, if you're looking for work in the applied data software fields, let me know.
Spending 500K on a Ferrari isn't a good investment and doesn't fit my plan. Like I said, it's a very nice Volvo, I quite like it.
Now back to the patio and commanding 3rd grade math!
Vintage Christian....the great inflator.
Whatever makes you happy. Sad to see but I do recognize you are dealing with a hard to treat condition.
Snap counts for WR's since they've been discussed:
Slayton 698
James 524
Hodgins 412
Johnson 312
Sills 270
Golladay 261
Wan'Dale 229
Shepard 165
James was graded very positively in getting open. As did Wan'Dale in 2023. It's scheme and yes, it gets me excited going forward. Wan'Dale in 2022 was starting to get very productive prior to injury. James is fringe but as we saw with the Chiefs, he still isn't very good. Scheme made him look better than he is. Hodgins number seems high but he did play a lot toward the end of the season, and of course Slayton led the way once he found the field. Remember they gave more snaps early to Shepard, Sills and Toney first. Marcus Johnson getting over 300 snaps speaks volumes on the overall unit. It's pretty obvious why they didn't have many big play passes when Slayton was the only legitimate threat (Wan'Dale going down really sucked, too).
Bingo!!
Time to take the training wheels off & let Jones fling it, if he can. If he can't, then let's please move the fuck on.
So here's what I recommend:
1) I make a fool of your nonsensical, circular observations on, well everything
2) You then post something about the passing references I've made about my professional past, but get it all confused
This way I feel all fuzzy about your love for me.
Also, just for shits and giggles, I appreciate you admitting I was completely right. That was big of you.