I’ve read some comments here stating one big concern they have….he doesn’t read the field fast enough. Are these people getting confused with Daniel Jones? Besides, even if that is so, you could say this concern affects more than 50% of today’s NFL QBs, especially inexperienced ones.
If you are one who thinks he can’t possibly be a good starting QB in the NFL…Why don’t you think time and experience can help him grow into a good one? He does have plenty of assets to work with…just go back and watch the MNF game vs the Packers and the Commanders 2nd game in Washington. Very accurate and appears to be fearless….just to mention a few.
So, why would you be willing to give up so soon on “Cutlets”…..look at the first year results of guys you respect, like Simms and Manning. How did they do in year one? And don’t forget….Cutlets was working with the worst OL in the NFL and not much surrounding him.
Okay, I’m all ears now…or should I say “eyes.”
2022, eat your heart out. 2019 decent production from a rookie? Nah. 2021 the best offensive player on the field for a depressed team with a mess of a HC. No matter.
It never happened. ONly the first few games of 2023 happened. And only 3-4 shaky as fuck games from Devito but he did throw the ball deep sometimes...that matters.
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that see him every day in practice don't see him as the man
Oh, they see Danny Dimes as the man, right? Like someone said….if Dimes was making 1 million instead of 40 million, would he still “automatically”be the man?m
draft the best high school recruit.
tia.
Nah, it's more like "Don't draft the untalented player 6th overall and then pay him like he's talented."
Jones still posted more completions and rushing yardage and yards per game than Devito did despite about 10 of the same people insisting Devito was much better last season.
Who cares. they both suck.
They do both suck, numbers and wins and losses don't lie. Can't argue that Jones has had a rough fierst 6 years save for 2022 when he was a winning and productive player. He's still struggled and failed to elevate the team save for 2022. That said, the Giants feel that Jones is the better and more worthwhile player to invest in right now. Maybe Jones is his own worst enemy or maybe the offense could do more to help him or maybe it's a little bit of both. Maybe the coaching staff is lost. I just find it laughably weird to sit here and shout from the hilltops that Devito did so much more than Jones last season. The numbers say otherwise.
Devito is a trash can until proven otherwise. If he's the QB in 2022 we go 6-11 if lucky. He brings little to nothing to the table until proven otherwise and no amount of decent play over a 1-2-3 game stretch when the team was at its very best changes things. If Devito played week 1 against dallas he's probably dead. or maybe not. Who cares. We're talking about Tommy Devito here.
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that settles it
draft the best high school recruit.
tia.
Nah, it's more like "Don't draft the untalented player 6th overall and then pay him like he's talented."
I shouldn't have mocked that take about high school recruits I knew the point you were trying to make and it's hard to argue it doesn't carry weight. I was just being an argumentative dipshit.
Maybe Devito takes a step forward thanks to a full year with this staff and camp. Who am I to say the kid can't progress and develop into something special. He can sling the ball but that doesn't impress me because anyone at the NFL level can throw a spiral far. He needs to learn the processing and nuances of the game.
As for Jones, I will die on a pretty safe hill to die on when I say this is his last chance. I know you think he's got dirty pics of someone or the team is afraid to challenge him but I think it's as simple as he's the most talented QB on the roster and will start until that changes. They seemed to have tried to draft a kid this April but couldn't move up for him.
If Jones has a brutal year or gets hurt and misses tons of time he's done here. He's only here now because he picked the best (or worst) possible time to have a good season. 2022 led to today.
One has 5 years of starts and 1st team reps
The other has 5 weeks
...and...
One makes $46 M while the other makes $1M
...what would a smart, merit-based organization do?
One has 5 years of starts and 1st team reps
The other has 5 weeks
...and...
One makes $46 M while the other makes $1M
...what would a smart, merit-based organization do?
Indeed.
However, Cutletts doesn't have a historic NYG playoff win like Jones did when he beat the Minnesota Sieve.
Jones still posted more completions and rushing yardage and yards per game than Devito did despite about 10 of the same people insisting Devito was much better last season.
Who cares. they both suck.
Then get rid of the expensive one.
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that settles it
draft the best high school recruit.
tia.
Nah, it's more like "Don't draft the untalented player 6th overall and then pay him like he's talented."
You wanted to draft Jones - so you’re admitting you’re clueless too?
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In comment 16552466 djm said:
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that settles it
draft the best high school recruit.
tia.
Nah, it's more like "Don't draft the untalented player 6th overall and then pay him like he's talented."
You wanted to draft Jones - so you’re admitting you’re clueless too?
I didn't want to draft Jones. I wanted to draft Hockenson. Drafting Jones once they paid Eli made no sense.
How would you know though? You joined BBI in August 2023.
Then after his pro day, even Terps fell full bloom in love with Jones...
;)
Then after his pro day, even Terps fell full bloom in love with Jones...
;)
I did like the workout, it's true!
DeVito is a great story and I think there is value in keeping him. But, if I am trying to build a contender, he isn't a guy I'm going with. Now, if you said we just need a bridge for a year to be competitive and not embarrass ourselves, fine. I think I'd rather see him than Locke if Jones can't go.
100% about people here being delusional..
It is like they got to dunkin donuts at 10pm and all there was left was a plain donut. Because they are drunk.. it tastes like the best donut they ever had.
Cutlets is a plain donut for anyone who has the late night QB munchees and when there is nothing else to choose from.
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where you really want the answer to be yes.
no one can convince you of anything that is possible. Even something highly unlikely is impossible to convince it cannot happen.
the story of undrafted QB's who have become "the man" is a short story. And usually there's a reason, the QB's flaws and limitations become apparent in their body of work.
Also, comparing him to Daniel Jones to make the decision is kind of flawed since not many think Jones is or can be "the man".
Lastly, sometimes people mention Jones is entering his 6th season in the NFL where DeVito is entering his 2nd. Jones is only 14 months older. DeVito spent 6 years in college (and applied for a 7th but was rejected), so maybe consider that too in your analysis.
and really lastly, DeVito can be "the man" but it's extremely unlikely, and if the Giants had a shot a Drake Maye (or the top 2 QB's in the draft) this wouldn't even be a discussion. And don't you think if the Giants, who have watched DeVito run NFL plays vs NFL defenses a lot, thought that DeVito could be the man, they would probably not have signed Drew Lock to be the backup to the guy they have starting.
Good points and questions pj.
I really don’t think signing Lock was all about not trusting TD….but more about calming the NY media and fan base. Imagine if NY didn’t pick up another QB with Jones even questionable to play in the preseason let alone the start of the regular season. You can’t go in with just one healthy QB….so Lock or someone else fairly decent was a must.
Also, I don’t think age is nearly as important as experience when comparing the two QBs. Everyone will tell you have important playing NFL games is for a QB to mature. Besides, we all saw what TD could do in the preseason games and several of the regular season games. Like I previously said…Phil Simms and Eli Manning pretty much laid eggs in season 1. TD was at least 3-3, and don’t forget, playing behind the worst OL in football with mediocre receivers.
Lastly, just because he was un drafted should mean nothing in practice and preseason. You would assume he wouldn’t be as good as Jones and Lock….but what if he is? Are you telling me, “so what he looks better than jones and Lock….hes an UDFA for crying out loud….you can’t start him because he wasn’t drafted. At least Brady and the 49er QB were drafted, albeit very late.”
You missed my point(s). Sorry I was not clear.
first, age is irrelevant. however, my point was people say "DeVito has only had one season in the league and Jones has had 5" - my point wasn't about age, it was the disparity in NFL seasons is so wide because DeVito spent 6 years in college. He really "should" have been in the NFL, if he was going to make it, 2 years ago.
second, draft status doesn't mean anything if the player is successful. I'm sure Sunday announcers will harp on it if DeVito becomes "the man" comparing him to Romo or Warner, but otherwise it's irrelevant. The point about draft status is time and time again, studies indicate the franchise QB's aka "the man" come from higher in the draft, not from UDFAs. Like I said the story of the undrafted QB's becoming "the man" is a short story, so his draft status is irrelevant when he's in practice or in a game, but it's relevant to the odds of becoming "the man" because it's rare for a UDFA to do so - there hasn't been one in a decade.
lastly, but to your first point, if Schoen thought DeVito can be "the man", but signed Lock to "calm the media and the fan base" he should be fired on the spot. a GM who makes decisions like that is a moron. I seriously doubt (or I hope) that line of thinking never entered into his brain.
I didn't want to draft Jones. I wanted to draft Hockenson. Drafting Jones once they paid Eli made no sense.
How would you know though? You joined BBI in August 2023.
You have admitted to me and has been backed up by other posters that pre 2019 draft - you wanted to draft Jones. So now you’re a liar. Deny it all you want - cause for forbid you’re ever wrong on anything, but you said it it to me.
You’re a waste.
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In comment 16552520 JT039
I didn't want to draft Jones. I wanted to draft Hockenson. Drafting Jones once they paid Eli made no sense.
How would you know though? You joined BBI in August 2023.
You have admitted to me and has been backed up by other posters that pre 2019 draft - you wanted to draft Jones. So now you’re a liar. Deny it all you want - cause for forbid you’re ever wrong on anything, but you said it it to me.
You’re a waste.
Before they paid Eli, I'd have been fine with it. Once they paid him, nope.
It's funny - I got insulted for saying they should have drafted Hockenson. Caught a lot of shit for it.
If I'm a waste maybe I should just change my handle and start new like dep did.
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In comment 16552528 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16552520 JT039
I didn't want to draft Jones. I wanted to draft Hockenson. Drafting Jones once they paid Eli made no sense.
How would you know though? You joined BBI in August 2023.
You have admitted to me and has been backed up by other posters that pre 2019 draft - you wanted to draft Jones. So now you’re a liar. Deny it all you want - cause for forbid you’re ever wrong on anything, but you said it it to me.
You’re a waste.
Before they paid Eli, I'd have been fine with it. Once they paid him, nope.
It's funny - I got insulted for saying they should have drafted Hockenson. Caught a lot of shit for it.
If I'm a waste maybe I should just change my handle and start new like dep did.
Or maybe cry like a little girl and leave the site when the Giants were having a playoff season cause you were a baby?
I’m with you on this. I was not convinced that he has no chance of being a good NFL QB by anyone here…..in fact, just the opposite. It seems the main argument used to prove he can’t be good is because he was not drafted. Hmmmm, but somehow, 49ers QB who barely got drafted in the 7th round CAN BE A GOOD QB because being drafted in the 7th round shows there is more hope for you vs not drafted. Does this really make sense to anybody? Not to me….
Cutlets showed me enough to want to watch him grow, mature and HOPEFULLY lTHROUGH EXPERIENCE he will learn to see the field more quickly. Rome wasn’t built in a night you know…..
By your interpretation of the logic then why not just not draft QB's anymore or wait until the 7th round to do so? Do you know why people don't actually do that? because the odds are against it happening. The Brady's, Purdy's, Romo's and Warners are one or twice a decade occurrence. Out of hundreds of failed chances.
No one can convince you something unlikely can't happen, but again the odds of happening are long.
You went into this thread with an opinion, asked people to change your mind, but were not willing to apply logic to your opinion.
Can DeVito be "the man" - of course he can, but it's not likely. That's the answer.
In the entire league today for all 32 teams at QB:
There is one NFL projected starter from the 7th round
Zero projected starters who were undrafted
Doesn't mean DeVito can't become one, but for the last time, it's not likely.
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In comment 16552281 Beer Man said:
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that see him every day in practice don't see him as the man
Yeah man! Let’s just trust the judgement of the guys that gave Jones that asinine contract. We should never question them. If you don’t think that the contract they gave Jones heavily influences their decision making then you’re simply not being honest with yourself. There is no assessment going on of who is the starter because of the contract. If Jones were making minimum wage like DeVito we may have seen an honest evaluation. Alas, that’s not going to happen
I think you are right….this is not a FAIR QB competition with the best man winning. This is simply…..40 million vs. 5 million vs. 1 million
If there's a coach in this league that can develop a QB from a lump of clay, he works here.
By your interpretation of the logic then why not just not draft QB's anymore or wait until the 7th round to do so? Do you know why people don't actually do that? because the odds are against it happening. The Brady's, Purdy's, Romo's and Warners are one or twice a decade occurrence. Out of hundreds of failed chances.
No one can convince you something unlikely can't happen, but again the odds of happening are long.
You went into this thread with an opinion, asked people to change your mind, but were not willing to apply logic to your opinion.
Can DeVito be "the man" - of course he can, but it's not likely. That's the answer.
In the entire league today for all 32 teams at QB:
There is one NFL projected starter from the 7th round
Zero projected starters who were undrafted
Doesn't mean DeVito can't become one, but for the last time, it's not likely.
So, do you believe Jones and or Lock are better than him? If so, why so?
What have either done to make you feel that way?
What has TD done to make you feel he is inferior to both of those guys?
Who would you rather have starting on a Sunday or Monday night game?
Yet we continue down this path another season.
but the reason Jones and Lock were rated so highly and drafted is probably because they had better measurables, tape, mechanics, and overall evaluations from the scouts (you know the people who do this for a living).
they don't always get it right - which is how you explain the Brady's or Warner's or Romo's, Purdy's and possibly DeVito.
I haven't seen enough of Lock. But, I'd don't think any of those three QB's materially sways the outcome of a game. IOW I think regardless who you start the outcome is probably the same, caveated I haven't seen a lot of Lock so maybe he's not quite as mediocre and slow to process defenses as the other two. And if that's the case you know the Giants will default to the guy getting paid $40M.
Yet we continue down this path another season.
I’m hoping whoever is our QB can be decent enough to give us a chance to win games….I’m not giving up hope yet, but the way Jones crapped his pants last year and because I’m not impressed with Lock, I agree with you….TD at least showed me things that make me feel more optimistic. He looked very good in preseason and he did win us a few games impressively- Wash and GB. I can’t count the Pats win as being impressive.
But, it only makes sense to me to think he can improve on his deficiencies through more playing time which means experience. Joes has had 5 years…TD has only had 6 games. I’d like to see what TD would look like with 5 years experience under his belt, much like what Jones has. I know he would have to be much better than this present day Jones. Heck, he threw 8 TDs in his 6 games and as I recall, Dabs didn’t even let him throw at all in one of them-Jets. Pretty tough to throw TDs when you can’t throw the ball.
To answer the OP, he can't be the man because he holds the ball too long and I'm not sure he has the arm. I love the effort he out forth and would like to have him as a cheap backup option.
but the reason Jones and Lock were rated so highly and drafted is probably because they had better measurables, tape, mechanics, and overall evaluations from the scouts (you know the people who do this for a living).
they don't always get it right - which is how you explain the Brady's or Warner's or Romo's, Purdy's and possibly DeVito.
I haven't seen enough of Lock. But, I'd don't think any of those three QB's materially sways the outcome of a game. IOW I think regardless who you start the outcome is probably the same, caveated I haven't seen a lot of Lock so maybe he's not quite as mediocre and slow to process defenses as the other two. And if that's the case you know the Giants will default to the guy getting paid $40M.
I think Your answer strengthens the argument to why not play TD? You can’t speak too highly for Jones or Lock….you know TD outplayed Jones last year by a wide margin. Jones had 2 TDs, 6 int, and a 1-5 record.
Cutlets threw for 8 TDs, 3 int, and a 3-3 record which should have been 4-2 if we had a healthy FG kicker v Jets.
Honestly Pj, I don’t see how anyone can show convincing support for playing Jones over Cutlets…based on what? Obviously not 2023….so I guess you would base it on 2022 when we won 10 games. Jones played well enough that year, I will give him that, especially with his legs. And he can thank the Minnesota Vikings defense for making him look even better than he was. I think Philadelphia showed us the real Jones the following week.
So, we come full circle…Cutlets can be our man just as much as the other two can….which may not being saying much. We shall see….I do hope one of them rises up noticeably during preseason to make us feel good about who it is.
if you jump out a 4 story window you will probably die. If one person out of 100 who jumps out a 4 story window survives, it still means you will probably die, but you have the same chance at surviving as the one person did. I hope you get the analogy. things that are unlikely but not impossible are still unlikely.
if you jump out a 4 story window you will probably die. If one person out of 100 who jumps out a 4 story window survives, it still means you will probably die, but you have the same chance at surviving as the one person did. I hope you get the analogy. things that are unlikely but not impossible are still unlikely.
The analogy is dark, but spot on. Haha.
if you jump out a 4 story window you will probably die. If one person out of 100 who jumps out a 4 story window survives, it still means you will probably die, but you have the same chance at surviving as the one person did. I hope you get the analogy. things that are unlikely but not impossible are still unlikely.
I know it is unlikely Cutlets starts over Jones…..40 m vs 1 m says it all. Also, Starting Cutlets may also make Schoen look bad…I don’t think Dabs would want to do that to his one friend….who got him this job.
I suppose Lock gets the nod should Jones be ineffective or injured…..but then, just like last year, Cutlets could replace Lock if he is ineffective or injured. We shall see.
And just in case anyone was wondering, there won't be any QB competition in training camp this fall. In fact no team anywhere is going to ask their starting QB coming off an ACL injury to 'compete' for their job. That'll com when Jones actually gets back into the lineup.
And just in case anyone was wondering, there won't be any QB competition in training camp this fall. In fact no team anywhere is going to ask their starting QB coming off an ACL injury to 'compete' for their job. That'll com when Jones actually gets back into the lineup.
I hear ya, Snorkels, but can you tell me why anyone would believe Jones gives us the best chance of winning after the first 6 games he started last year? He’s done nothing subsequent to those games so why now would any coach dismiss his most recent on field accomplishments? That is what I don’t get……but I’m sure the Pat answer we will hear is this…..”Jones didn’t have a great supporting cast in those 6 games, so you really shouldn’t place much emphasis on his 1-5 record with all those turnovers and few TDs.”
Well guess what? Cutlets and Taylor pretty much had the same supporting cast, although I do concede, Jones didn’t have Andrew Thomas, so I’m sure that has to be considered. The other two QBs at least had Thomas, albeit, somewhat damaged.
I even recall Dabs saying (paraphrase), “every position is won in training camp and just because you are a high draft choice doesn’t mean you automatically have the job…you have to win it.”
Proof usually requires stats, numbers, etc. I guess the best evidence is look at his 2022 results….that about it. And yes, he did have pretty good numbers in 2022, but a large part of that was through his legs….not his arm nearly as much.
He only threw 15 TDs in 16 games….and only averaged 200 yds per game. Both of these numbers don’t blow anyone over….just okay. And no one can certainly look at the following year, 2023, in which Jones completely regressed so much, it’s scary….
Proof usually requires stats, numbers, etc. I guess the best evidence is look at his 2022 results….that about it. And yes, he did have pretty good numbers in 2022, but a large part of that was through his legs….not his arm nearly as much.
He only threw 15 TDs in 16 games….and only averaged 200 yds per game. Both of these numbers don’t blow anyone over….just okay. And no one can certainly look at the following year, 2023, in which Jones completely regressed so much, it’s scary….
The most compelling case for Jones is his playoff win and how he performed in that game on the road. That capped off a solid year. That's not an unreasonable take.
But it doesn't require a deep dive to find the weaknesses in that position.
I think a case can be made that DeVito could be our Brock Purdy more than Jones is anything other than Marcus Marriotta, V2.
I think a case can be made that DeVito could be our Brock Purdy more than Jones is anything other than Marcus Marriotta, V2.
Or an equally compelling case maybe can be made that Jones could be our Simms (c 1984) more than DeVito is anything other than Scott Brunner V2.
Why did the Giants ultimately settle on Simms in 1984? Certainly nothing in his resume to that point suggested anything that rhymed with Super Bowl, but they realized that he had much better physical tools and upside. I suspect Daboll and Schoen have made a similar evaluation this time around.
Hey I didn't start this; bw did with his DeVito = Purdy comment. You guys are so touchy!!
Or an equally compelling case maybe can be made that Jones could be our Simms (c 1984) more than DeVito is anything other than Scott Brunner V2.
Why did the Giants ultimately settle on Simms in 1984? Certainly nothing in his resume to that point suggested anything that rhymed with Super Bowl, but they realized that he had much better physical tools and upside. I suspect Daboll and Schoen have made a similar evaluation this time around.
If you are so hellbent on comping Jones to former Giant QBs, don't embarrass Phil Simms. The Dave Brown Era is the much more apt.
Jones is not in the same universe in arm talent like Simms. And Simms played in an era where passing the ball was considerably more challenging than today's pro-passing rules. Simms would be a helluva more effective in today's game than Jones could ever dream.
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For the love of God, can we PLEASE stop comparing Simms '84 to Jones '24
Hey I didn't start this; bw did with his DeVito = Purdy comment. You guys are so touchy!!
I left you a reply by mistake in the Jones acl thread. You can read it there.
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In comment 16553787 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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For the love of God, can we PLEASE stop comparing Simms '84 to Jones '24
Hey I didn't start this; bw did with his DeVito = Purdy comment. You guys are so touchy!!
I left you a reply by mistake in the Jones acl thread. You can read it there. PS here's the guts of it for those that don't know how to cut and paste:
And the chance that he still becomes what we want or need to win a superbowl is so extremely unlikely that it isn’t worth finding a comp in a desperate attempt to win a silly debate. That’s just grasping at straws and making the author of such posts look moronic.
Except I'm not trying to win a silly debate; I'm trying to understand and perhaps explain the Giants thinking on the matter. And since I'm trying to understand what they are actually thinking and doing and you guys are advocating a reality that appears to exist only in your own minds who is really being a little moronic here?
PS Do you guys have some kind of alarm where you respond like sharks when anyone has the temerity to say something good about Jones, the guy the football people running the Giants think is their best option.
This coaching staff has only spent 1 and 1/3 years with Jones….one year with Cutlets….and no time with Lock. Yes, based on that, they certainly have seen Jones longer, although after week 6 last year, Jones was probably not on the football field much. So, what did they see in that 1 1/3 years? A decent game manager in his first year, who excelled more with his legs than his arm. And then in the 1/3 second year, they saw a scared unsure inept QB who quite frankly was a nightmare on the gridiron. There is an excuse one can use though….Andrew Thomas was out 5 of those 6 games and Ezeudu was no better than what my dead mother would have been. Is that excuse enough to convince the coaches to give Jones a pass? Apparently that plus the acquiring 5 more OL guys + Nabers has now convinced them the 2022 Jones will be back and even better.
Many here, including yours truly, are skeptical about that but like you said, if the coaches prefer Jones, it is their opinion that only matters….so we here are left to hold our collective breaths and hope they are right. I certainly don’t want to say “I told you do” because then that translates into another losing season. With my calcium coronary score recently showing a very high score, I may not have many more seasons left on Earth, so every year is very important to me. Besides, I look foolish with my web name here.
Go Giants…Go Coaches and GM….Go whoever is the QB.