Something I have been pondering... for those who fault Joe Schoen for the Daniel Jones contract, how much responsibility do you put on Daboll for the DJ contract?
Daboll has the QB whisperer reputation, which I think is deserved. Daboll and Schoen are tight. I can't imagine Schoen gave DJ that contract without vetting it with Daboll. Daboll must have thought DJ would continue to develop. If you want to fault Schoen for the Jones contract, doesn't some of that blame go to Daboll?
I like both Schoen and Daboll. I just think it is interesting how Daboll, who has the reputation for developing QBs and being the QB guru, doesn't seem to get criticized for the Jones contract.
Having a boss that "hints, but doesn't direct", if true, must be maddening.
Having a boss that "hints, but doesn't direct", if true, must be maddening.
Name one that doesn't in virtually any business.
It is not likely they keep him in 2024 and also not likely they draft Nabers.
Lets say DJ and Nabers have a great year and turn into a great QB/WR combination. Then not franchising DJ will be a lucky break.
There are so many what ifs. We will not really be able to assess it until years later. So for now you do the best you can with the hand you are dealt. I think the Giants have mostly done that.
Just my 2 cents, I think after the '22 season there was likely enormous pressure placed on any Jones/Barkley doubters in the building that any plan forward that didn't include the two of them was in fact a step backwards. We've already heard it on Hard Knocks: "but what's our identity without Saquon?". And that was after a shit season. Imagine the Old Guard's reaction if you tried to tell them, after the '22 season, that you didn't want to re-sign those guys. I'm willing to guess they'd have been incredulous.
And while an immediate setback may have been true, at least for '22, we subsequently learned that retaining both was certainly not a recipe for success either.
What's the beef with Daboll? Can you even run a sub-7 40 bro?
Are we sure about that? He seemed pretty amped interviewing the QB’s. I think the Giants went into the draft thinking it was Drake Maye (assuming Williams and Daniels were gone) or WR. I think we’ll get a better handle on the next HK about how negotiations with NE for the 3rd pick went down. If it’s true that Schoen offered as many as 3 #1’s, and I would assume Daboll was on board, then they aren’t all that about Daniel Jones.
Also interviewing those QBs (including Caleb Williams) probably gave them some insight on them as opponents.
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If not a mandate, I'd guess at least a "Mara thumb on the scale".
Having a boss that "hints, but doesn't direct", if true, must be maddening.
Name one that doesn't in virtually any business.
Yup. And they have every right to.
Not only that, what should be clear watching HK is Schoen has final say. Mara and McDonnell clearly wanted Barkley back and he's gone. And this was a major decision.
Having and owner who has been around the game his entire life as a sounding board is not some horrible thing but probably more helpful than many here realize. Always believing Mara makes each of these decisions in complete contrast to the gm’s wishes is a lazy take
Having and owner who has been around the game his entire life as a sounding board is not some horrible thing but probably more helpful than many here realize. Always believing Mara makes each of these decisions in complete contrast to the gm’s wishes is a lazy take
You can be around a business your whole life and still not be good at it. As Eric has said Mara comes across like George Costanza and sounds like he thinks the game is played today like it was in 1984.
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Why shouldn’t he have some input? By all accounts Mara allows the GM the final say, but he as the owner voices his feelings as well. If it a close decision that the GM is himself wrestling with maybe it’s the deciding factor but if gm has a strong conviction he’ll go with what he thinks is the best course.
Having and owner who has been around the game his entire life as a sounding board is not some horrible thing but probably more helpful than many here realize. Always believing Mara makes each of these decisions in complete contrast to the gm’s wishes is a lazy take
You can be around a business your whole life and still not be good at it. As Eric has said Mara comes across like George Costanza and sounds like he thinks the game is played today like it was in 1984.
When Wellington was alive and in charge Eric also openly suggested the team would benefit if he would die, I’m not too sure I value Eric’s take on any of the Mara’s as being all that reasonable and four Super Bowl wins would suggest differently
Of course it matters what BD thinks, he coaches the team. Anyone who thinks the decision was made without Daboll input IMO, is sadly mistaken. It's been very obvious, if we pay attention, they like DJ and think he was at a disadvantage with his surrounding cast.
They both screwed up.
True, but I think that has more to do with self-preservation than long-term best interests of the team. Dabs knows he needs to show results or he may be gone - that is the life of an NFL coach. With the expected learning curve on a new QB, which scenario is more likely to yield a possible short-term boost - playmaker for a QB with experience that at least knows the system, or training a new rookie QB from scratch that has no NFL experience and no idea what Dabs system looks like. I would do the same thing if I was Dabs, but that decision is not the best long-term decision IMHO.
And for the Mara is at fault crowd, that does not make sense to me. There is just no way Schoen and Daboll would sign DJ if they did not think he had a good chance to be worth the money. Better to quit than work in that environment. I can see it shading the answer but not forcing it.
With ZERO proof. These are the dumb fans and there are plenty of them here...
Having and owner who has been around the game his entire life as a sounding board is not some horrible thing but probably more helpful than many here realize. Always believing Mara makes each of these decisions in complete contrast to the gm’s wishes is a lazy take
Absolutely. Some people around here interpret "some say" as "mandated." Absurd to think an owner would bully his coach and GM....
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why should Daboll be blamed for it? And even if it wasn’t, it’s a Schoen decision and by the looks of it, he really wanted to franchise Jones. Daboll has done his job, this is definitely not on him.
With ZERO proof. These are the dumb fans and there are plenty of them here...
The proof thing works both ways you know...
Since John is I'm charge, we don't really know what JS/BD think of Daniel. They could love him like John does. They could think he's a backup QB. The outcomes are still the same. Play this out.
Daboll tells Schoen after 2022 that he had to create a college walk-on QB style of offense and that there is no way Daniel can thrive in a real NFL offense. Schoen agrees. But he's thinking about his offseason brief with John, Chris, and Tim.
Is there any possible way Joe leads that meeting by saying that Daniel did a good job in a remedial offense, but hes a backup caliber QB so we're not going to go any higher than $12 M per year on him? Not a chance.
I'm not saying that's how it went. But even if it did go that way, John's love for Daniel in the deciding factor and because of that love, there was no way that Daniel wasn't getting his money and his permanent starting job.
Then the first 5-6 games occurred in 2023. As Scheon says, Mahomes couldn't have been successful…..but DJ’s two injuries changed the situation. Some say Tyrod and Devito played better and they did, but by that part of the season, the oline had finally settled down even though they were still very bad, but not historically bad as they were in the beginning. Apples and oranges comparison.
Because of DJ’s injuries, they needed to cover themselves for 2024. So they signed Drew Lock and also investigated what it would take to get Drake Maye. They knew it was a longshot, but wanted to do their due diligence. They would have pulled the cord if the deal wasn't too crazy.
Since John is I'm charge, we don't really know what JS/BD think of Daniel. They could love him like John does. They could think he's a backup QB. The outcomes are still the same. Play this out.
Daboll tells Schoen after 2022 that he had to create a college walk-on QB style of offense and that there is no way Daniel can thrive in a real NFL offense. Schoen agrees. But he's thinking about his offseason brief with John, Chris, and Tim.
Is there any possible way Joe leads that meeting by saying that Daniel did a good job in a remedial offense, but hes a backup caliber QB so we're not going to go any higher than $12 M per year on him? Not a chance.
I'm not saying that's how it went. But even if it did go that way, John's love for Daniel in the deciding factor and because of that love, there was no way that Daniel wasn't getting his money and his permanent starting job.
Holy conjecture Batman
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Schoen made the offer. Should we blame Schoen when Daboll makes a mistake in a game? IF Daboll had significant input, and I think he should, that in itself is Schoen’s decision. At the end of the day, it’s Schoen’s call.
Of course it matters what BD thinks, he coaches the team. Anyone who thinks the decision was made without Daboll input IMO, is sadly mistaken. It's been very obvious, if we pay attention, they like DJ and think he was at a disadvantage with his surrounding cast.
I never said Daboll didn’t have input, in fact I said he likely did and should, my point is that the decision is ultimately on Schoen. Why should Daboll be held responsible for #chien’s decision, even if he agreed with it?
I suspect we'll never know the true answer.
It's unbelievable. If HK showed anything, it's that even if Mara shares his own opinion, Schoen does what he wants anyway.