Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
Being ready for camp was on the optimistic, but not unrealistic side of the return window.
He had surgery on November 22 and 8 months forward is July 22.
At first glance I was a little skeptical he'd be ready, but after researching how quickly other players have returned recently, I was convinced his ACL injury wasn't going to be a factor in him being a Giant/starter this year.
It's simply not a devastating injury for a quarterback.
It looks like he’s worked on shortening up his release. Looks more compact than in years past and more use of different angles.
The other thing I noticed is he is moving with a more narrow base. He did one of these workouts last year and I felt like his base was very wide and put him in what looked to be slightly awkward posture to throw out of.
Of course let’s see if any of this carries over to the regular season. Also needs to be better at reading a defense if he’s going to truly take the next step as a QB.
The only thing PUP does at this point is preclude him from practicing. He still counts against the 90-man roster.
The only incentive to PUP him would be if they thought he was a risk to not be ready opening day, and the roster exemption that provides. And that would require him to miss 4 games.
They'll likely just manage his workload accordingly, and not PUP him.
of his career. His range of outcomes is so wide. He can either be the starting QB of the Giants next year as the team continues to upgrade the roster around him or he could be a backup QB sonewhere with a 90% pay cut. Huge stakes for DJ in 2024.
If Jones plays at the start of the season he will need to be a pocket
Doubt he gets much time in preseason games. I expect some early season issues getting acclimated to live action again.
He was getting a little gun shy imv during that really horrific three game stretch of SF, Sea, and Mia. OL and run game were dreadful which made it exceptionally hard on DJ.
Be interesting to see if any lingering impact early.
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
RE: If Jones plays at the start of the season he will need to be a pocket
QB only, which takes away a lot of his effectiveness. Not sure he can perform as a "pocket only" guy
Probably not but if the OL can just be average, which is something we’ve barely seen with Jones here, he has a shot to be solid without running. Add in an elite talent like Nabers and there’s something to get excited about, IMO.
If he's working on throwing from different slots or has his release point lowered?
You notice he's using very little lower body and almost "whipping" the ball, however I don't know if this is possibly intentional as QBs like Mahomes and Rogers use a similar arm slot to shorten their release in certain situations.
RE: If Jones plays at the start of the season he will need to be a pocket
Has he really always played well in shorts? There was a lot of criticism of his 2022 training camp and he followed that up by earning $82M in guarantees when the pads came on.
He seemed to lock onto his primary receiver and he lacked a quick release. Neither of these shortcomings involve mobility. It will be interesting to see if there's improvement.
he dragged his back foot so much. Is that intentional, from a mechanics standpoint I mean?
He's stepping into his throws.
That's a good thing.
Stepping in with the front, but I thought dragging the back took away velocity. At least that's something I was taught throwing a baseball a thousand years ago.
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
Honestly I hope he does. I hope he has a winning season and over 30 total TDs.
I'm sure Cutcliffe set him up with David Morris/QB Country. Cut coached Morris at Ole Miss. And DJ looks markedly more built, too. Hope he serves a lot of crow this year.
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
That would certainly poke a lot of holes in the "nobody works harder than Daniel" declaration we've heard ad nauseum.
RE: RE: If Jones plays at the start of the season he will need to be a pocket
QB only, which takes away a lot of his effectiveness. Not sure he can perform as a "pocket only" guy
Why? He looks terriffic, and said he's actually already making sharper cuts now than prior to the injury.
Players don't just recover from these things immediately. He is in shorts, so it doesn't mean all that much. Wait until he gets under real pas pressure, and wait until he takes a hit or two. These things are as much mental as physical. He will be worried the knee will break again, get tentative and protect it a little, etc. Everyone does until they regain full confidence. Just because he runs around in shorts with no pressure doesn't mean he's all the way back. I would bet it takes 1/4 of the season for him to feel comfortable again.
Plus as pointed out above, its never really about his physical attributes it is about his mental ones. If as I suggest he stays in the pocket a lot more, that puts even more emphasis on his processing and ability to anticipate. So far in his career these are not his strongest points.
From what I've read, and the info might be a bit......
dated at this point, the risk of reinjuring the knee after an ACL redo is substantially higher at 8 months when returning to full athletic competition. Ten months you should be good to go.
This may be what Schoen was alluding to when he mentioned Jones might not be a go until 3 or 4 weeks into the season.
And I know others have come back at 8 months (Adrian Peterson).
Peterson's return in eight months and two weeks is regarded as the greatest, most successful one from a torn ACL and knee reconstruction in recent sports history. National stories on Peterson in that 2012 NFL season had headlines such as “Adrian Peterson: Best ACL recovery ever?”
Has he really always played well in shorts? There was a lot of criticism of his 2022 training camp and he followed that up by earning $82M in guarantees when the pads came on.
What a heartwarming tale. Almost as much fun to remember as thinking back to when you were still a credible poster instead of a DJ fanboi.
An alarming lack of velocity, accuracy, and overall arm talent that will only get worse when you add a pass rush.
WOW! That's great, you can analyze all that from a 10 second tape.
Did you see on hard knocks where Schoen and his PR guy were talking about the mouth breathers trying to analyze body language during press conferences. Same thing here. Anyone who attempts to garner anything beyond Jones moving around pretty good 8 months post op from that tape is an idiot.
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Weird that he has the same problems now as he did in college despite everyone around him being different
He is clearly there with the upper tier of QBs in terms of athleticism, but it’s between the ears that has him rated so poorly IMO. He hasn’t been able to read defenses well enough and get the ball out to the right read. Pressure will do that, however it’s been noted that even when he’s had a little bit of time, that he still has the same processing issues. If he’s a one read and go guy, then he clearly will be gone after next season.
but maybe it would be a blessing if his leg wasn't quite what it was, that way he is forced to become a more effective passer rather than rely on running.
Overall, I'm not holding my breath. I've seen videos of Jones looking good in shorts.
Wake me up when:
- He can win in prime time
- He can win against winning teams
- He can get the Giants to a winning record, consistently
- He can throw a TD, and lots of them
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Weird that he has the same problems now as he did in college despite everyone around him being different
He went from the powerhouse of Duke football to the juggernaut Giant team.
I'm not talking just running, because straight line running is usually one of the first things to be close to 100%. I mean to move in the pocket, cut, start and stop, and to plant to throw. If he is reduced to a pocket passer for any stretch, we are in trouble because his only real strength is the threat of the run. Even at that, last year it looked like teams were figuring out how to stop him. Hopefully Nebers and co. will have teams backing off a bit more.
he dragged his back foot so much. Is that intentional, from a mechanics standpoint I mean?
He's stepping into his throws.
That's a good thing.
Stepping in with the front, but I thought dragging the back took away velocity. At least that's something I was taught throwing a baseball a thousand years ago.
______________
Different motion entirely. Look at a pitcher and then look at a QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He looks great in these videos
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Weird that he has the same problems now as he did in college despite everyone around him being different
He went from the powerhouse of Duke football to the juggernaut Giant team.
Read this scouting report and tell me what's changed in the 5 years since it was written. We've had defensive players on other teams practically confirm their scouting report on DJ is identical Dave Te Scouting Report on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
I will agree that he has not been a crisp decision maker. Three head coaches, four different offensive coordinators, likely five different play callers in his five years don't help.
When David Carr was on the Giants as Eli's backup, despite being much more mobile than Eli, Carr seemed to crumble or bail under the slightest pressure. I attributed that to the pummeling he took behind the Swiss cheese Texans offensive line.
I seem similar traits in Jones (i.e. doesn't trust the line, afraid of real and phantom pressure).
Jones seems to be almost diametrically opposite of Phil Simms regarding pressure. I can remember many occasions with Simms making tough throws when he knew he was going to be blasted (and you could get blasted a lot harder in the 70s, 80s and 90s). I can still hear Pat Summerall, "Simms ... with people in his face ... throws ...")
The Giants offensive line needs to improve AND Jones needs to learn how to trust it. Is Jones already too damaged as David Carr was by the time he was on the Giants? I think we'll learn that early in 2024.
RE: RE: mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I will agree that he has not been a crisp decision maker. Three head coaches, four different offensive coordinators, likely five different play callers in his five years don't help.
there's always an excuse for Danny the Scholarship Boy.By year 9 it'll be he can't truly be the great QB he could be all because of global warming...afterall, how could anyone QB in that heat.
Everyone acknowledges Daniel Jones is not the perfect QB
For all of you chump haters that can't wait to bash DJ in every thread, see a 35 TD season.
And let me guess, you’re going to be banging Margot Robbie as Jones is leading the team down the field for the winning score against the Chiefs in the Super Bowl?
For all of you chump haters that can't wait to bash DJ in every thread, see a 35 TD season.
He's going to do something he's never coming close to doing? OK...
I can't wait to see Tomon Fox get 27 sacks this year and prove he's better than Lawrence Taylor...hey this is fun!
To be fair, Fox has been held back by terrible coaches and teammates his entire life. He’s a victim of incredibly poor circumstances. I mean, did you see that sack he had against Tennessee in that magical ‘22 season? THAT is the real Tomon Fox so 27 sacks isn’t out of the question this season
I am ready to move on from Jones, but I hope he kills it this year. Because as many know, what the fridge do I know?
Same. He is not the QB of the future for the Giants, but if he can have a career year we will have an interesting season and can possibly even get something for him in the offseason.
I am ready to move on from Jones, but I hope he kills it this year. Because as many know, what the fridge do I know?
Same. He is not the QB of the future for the Giants, but if he can have a career year we will have an interesting season and can possibly even get something for him in the offseason.
If he has a career year he is much more likely to get a massive extension than be traded. This regime desperately wants him to be the guy
I am ready to move on from Jones, but I hope he kills it this year. Because as many know, what the fridge do I know?
Same. He is not the QB of the future for the Giants, but if he can have a career year we will have an interesting season and can possibly even get something for him in the offseason.
If he has a career year he is much more likely to get a massive extension than be traded. This regime desperately wants him to be the guy
I know. I think Mara and Schoen are looking for excuses to keep him rather than trying to upgrade a position of weakness.
After watching the first two episodes of 'Hard Knocks', I still have no clue what Schoen thinks of Jones deep down. The evidence thus far...contract, not drafting a QB at all, signing Lock suggests Joe thinks he can win with Jones. I think that's loco, but who am I? I'm just a poster on BBI.
As for Mara, I think he loves Jones like he's a son.
After watching the first two episodes of 'Hard Knocks', I still have no clue what Schoen thinks of Jones deep down. The evidence thus far...contract, not drafting a QB at all, signing Lock suggests Joe thinks he can win with Jones. I think that's loco, but who am I? I'm just a poster on BBI.
As for Mara, I think he loves Jones like he's a son.
I think there's a chance it was to get Alt. Chris B on The Giants Insider Podcast made a solid argument this past week on that being the dude we were targeting.
I think there's a chance it was to get Alt. Chris B on The Giants Insider Podcast made a solid argument this past week on that being the dude we were targeting.
Not buying that one at all
You don’t give up multiple number 1’s for a right tackle
Schoen still likes Jones, but the injuries have become a major risk. So, he needed QB insurance, and he was willing to buy a longterm policy at a higher premium.
And since he was close enough in the draft to make a run at a QB on the highly desired rookie contract, Schoen gave Maye a serious look.
But he was only willing to pay so much. And ultimately backed out knowing he had a plan 1B: new WR for Jones and Lock on a one year deal as downside protection.
Schoen still likes Jones, but the injuries have become a major risk. So, he needed QB insurance, and he was willing to buy a longterm policy at a higher premium.
And since he was close enough in the draft to make a run at a QB on the highly desired rookie contract, Schoen gave Maye a serious look.
But he was only willing to pay so much. And ultimately backed out knowing he had a plan 1B: new WR for Jones and Lock on a one year deal as downside protection.
I’ll try this again
You have literally no idea what Schoen was willing to pay and neither do I
And yes….regardless of the deal or any deal for that matter there is always awaking away point….
Just more of the same nonsense that you keep spewing that the organization prefers Jones….heck else what else would you have to post about
Schoen still likes Jones, but the injuries have become a major risk. So, he needed QB insurance, and he was willing to buy a longterm policy at a higher premium.
And since he was close enough in the draft to make a run at a QB on the highly desired rookie contract, Schoen gave Maye a serious look.
But he was only willing to pay so much. And ultimately backed out knowing he had a plan 1B: new WR for Jones and Lock on a one year deal as downside protection.
And let’s try this again
My response was that they weren’t trying to trade up to 3 for a right tackle
You choose to take the discussion into another direction which had literally nothing to do with my response
dated at this point, the risk of reinjuring the knee after an ACL redo is substantially higher at 8 months when returning to full athletic competition. Ten months you should be good to go.
This may be what Schoen was alluding to when he mentioned Jones might not be a go until 3 or 4 weeks into the season.
And I know others have come back at 8 months (Adrian Peterson).
Peterson's return in eight months and two weeks is regarded as the greatest, most successful one from a torn ACL and knee reconstruction in recent sports history. National stories on Peterson in that 2012 NFL season had headlines such as “Adrian Peterson: Best ACL recovery ever?”
As a parent going thru recovery with a 16 year old very high level wrestler we are being told the biggest time of risk is the 3-6 month post op mark. That is when the graft is at its weakest point. Each month after 6 the risk largely decreases up until the 9 month mark. At that time the risk of retear decreases very little from 9 months on.
His and anyone's return should be based on the metrics they hit.
Our return to play can happen anytime from 6 to 12 months. The criteria to return is this:
1. Quad and hamstring strength at least 90% of opposite leg
2. One leg hop test and vertical jump at least 90% of opposite leg.
3 Jog, Full speed run, shuttle run, and figure 8 running without a limp.
4. Full controlled acceleration and deceleration.
5. deep squat and full rise from squat without issue.
6. No effusion or quadriceps atrophy.
We are hoping to be cleared for the start of wrestling season which would be 9 months post op and are on pace to do so but will be cautious.
RE: RE: From what I've read, and the info might be a bit......
dated at this point, the risk of reinjuring the knee after an ACL redo is substantially higher at 8 months when returning to full athletic competition. Ten months you should be good to go.
This may be what Schoen was alluding to when he mentioned Jones might not be a go until 3 or 4 weeks into the season.
And I know others have come back at 8 months (Adrian Peterson).
Peterson's return in eight months and two weeks is regarded as the greatest, most successful one from a torn ACL and knee reconstruction in recent sports history. National stories on Peterson in that 2012 NFL season had headlines such as “Adrian Peterson: Best ACL recovery ever?”
As a parent going thru recovery with a 16 year old very high level wrestler we are being told the biggest time of risk is the 3-6 month post op mark. That is when the graft is at its weakest point. Each month after 6 the risk largely decreases up until the 9 month mark. At that time the risk of retear decreases very little from 9 months on.
His and anyone's return should be based on the metrics they hit.
Our return to play can happen anytime from 6 to 12 months. The criteria to return is this:
1. Quad and hamstring strength at least 90% of opposite leg
2. One leg hop test and vertical jump at least 90% of opposite leg.
3 Jog, Full speed run, shuttle run, and figure 8 running without a limp.
4. Full controlled acceleration and deceleration.
5. deep squat and full rise from squat without issue.
6. No effusion or quadriceps atrophy.
We are hoping to be cleared for the start of wrestling season which would be 9 months post op and are on pace to do so but will be cautious.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing and best of luck to your son!!
Due to slower reactions.....he needs a competent OL.
Daniel Jones came out of college winging it.....his conservativness started with Judge and he became risk averse.
I hope he is reading the tea leaves " he is not being paid to hand off"....and he has the horses and reliable options.
Much like Eli....the OL must be competent!
The big difference between Jones and a good qb is that the good qb can see how the play is going to develop and where the window is going to be to throw the ball. Call it where the receiver has leverage if you like.
If you want a downfield passing game, you can't sit back there and hang your o-line out to dry waiting and waiting for a receiver to come wide open before you decide to throw the ball. The defenders are too quick, too fast and have spent too much time studying your offense.
If you look at the play to Manningham in the Super Bowl, Manningham was blanketed when the ball was thrown; it was thrown to the spot where he was going to be open; where he had leverage.
Jones is not good at it and has never been good at it. I anticipate he is going to look much as he has: 200 yards and a td a game and Y/A south of 7 and a few more picks. It's a shame but it is what it is.
Yes, he looks like a qb from central casting. Always has.
Hope he is 100% healed and ready to play.
He has definitely bulked off this offseason. He is carrying more upper body muscle then he has in the past, which probably means he is portionally carrying more. My guess is he did this to protect against those neck injuries. It now honestly looks like his shoulder muscles are noticably bigger making that neck fractionally less susceptible. I have never seen him this muscular.
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
RE: RE: Everyone acknowledges Daniel Jones is not the perfect QB
Due to slower reactions.....he needs a competent OL.
Daniel Jones came out of college winging it.....his conservativness started with Judge and he became risk averse.
I hope he is reading the tea leaves " he is not being paid to hand off"....and he has the horses and reliable options.
Much like Eli....the OL must be competent!
The big difference between Jones and a good qb is that the good qb can see how the play is going to develop and where the window is going to be to throw the ball. Call it where the receiver has leverage if you like.
If you want a downfield passing game, you can't sit back there and hang your o-line out to dry waiting and waiting for a receiver to come wide open before you decide to throw the ball. The defenders are too quick, too fast and have spent too much time studying your offense.
If you look at the play to Manningham in the Super Bowl, Manningham was blanketed when the ball was thrown; it was thrown to the spot where he was going to be open; where he had leverage.
Jones is not good at it and has never been good at it. I anticipate he is going to look much as he has: 200 yards and a td a game and Y/A south of 7 and a few more picks. It's a shame but it is what it is.
Post of the day material... "ang your o-line out to dry" LOL. Watch some football dude and maybe you'll realize you got this one 100% backwards.
"he was going to be open; where he had leverage." Manningham WASN'T even slightly open and had ZERO leverage. Watch the play. It was as if Eli handed him the ball. Perfect throw, one of the best all time but Manningham, who made a great catch, wasn't open.
After watching the first two episodes of 'Hard Knocks', I still have no clue what Schoen thinks of Jones deep down. The evidence thus far...contract, not drafting a QB at all, signing Lock suggests Joe thinks he can win with Jones. I think that's loco, but who am I? I'm just a poster on BBI.
As for Mara, I think he loves Jones like he's a son.
I slightly disagree. Unless it was premeditated for the show since they’re stuck with him at least this season…when he said even Patrick Mahomes couldn’t succeed behind the OL we had. Not going all in on Barkley, our best offensive player, drafting Nabers and trying to fix the OL as best he could, I feel he still likes DJ… especially “IF” the talk of trading up was for Alt, Harrison, Nabers and not Maye.
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
I'm assuming I'm in your bucket of '25', but I really don't turn every thread into a 'Jones bashing thread'. To be quite honest, I don't really even talk about him much anymore because what's there to say? I'm dug in. You're dug in. Terps is dug in. There isn't really a lot of nuance here. & also, this is a thread about Daniel Jones! Haha.
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
Yeah. Its called getting this shit knocked out of you in 0.8 seconds every drop back.
Lets see what happens if he has a little time and something that resembles a consistent pocket.
LOL. The excuses continue to continue. Hopefully the Giants will have surrounded Jones with the perfect scenario by 2028! Then, he can really show us something!
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
When inevitably happens and people like you who have praised Jones on his ‘accomplishments’, it’s too bad you likely won’t be here because, you won’t be able to be reminded of your idiocy. You’ll be gone. Tail tucked.
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
When inevitably happens and people like you who have praised Jones on his ‘accomplishments’, it’s too bad you likely won’t be here because, you won’t be able to be reminded of your idiocy. You’ll be gone. Tail tucked.
I would like you to find a SINGLE POST where I praised DJ's play. I'll wait.
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
What are you going to say? "Hey, I told you jackasses that Jones would finally breakthrough in year six..."
I'll be glad to congratulate you on your foresight...
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
I feel it is more the other way around. So many threads get turned into praise of Jones.
As a fan of the Giants, I root for Jones to succeed. Did I want a new QB? Sure. But, when they didn't get one, Jones remained the guy and our success as a team hinges on his success as a QB. With an improved OL and Nabers in tow, along with Robinson, Hyatt, and Slayton and a competent Singletary behind him, I do expect an improvement. As I have said, though, that improvement has to be HUGE to make a real impact.
As for bashing, again I don't see a lot of these threads as being turned into bashing. It is reality, Jones has not been a very good QB, regardless of why you think that. If you believe it is mostly due to the talent around him, then this year better be different. If you believe it is his deficiencies as a QB, then you probably don't believe any improvement will be significant enough to take us to the top of the division.
My take, and it has been pretty clear for 2 years now, is that he did not earn a $40M+ per year contract prior to signing it and he sure as shit didn't look like a $40M+ QB after. I acknowledge the OL sucked. But, I also believe a true elite QB makes more of things than he has. A true elite QB still elevates the offense, regardless. That doesn't mean I expected the offense to be elite, but they should at least look competent, which they have not. When multiple analysts show, even with pressure, where reads are missed, hot reads are missed, etc. I worry because that was year 5. Those should be the things we see regularly.
So, I am cautiously optimistic this year. I do like the OL coach signing and the OL FAs signed along with what seems to be a true #1 WR now, to compliment some other talented and young WRs. So, I do expect the offense to look a lot better. How much is what worries me. I am rooting for Jones to finally look like the QB who makes $40M+, but I am worried he won't until it happens.
I think a lot of the people who are critical of Jones, myself included, are doing so from a place of facts, stats, and what we see. I can't speak for everyone, but I confidently believe most of the posters would love to come here and eat crow. However, that crow will look more like "finally" than anything else. Ultimately, I would be thrilled if we finally see a 25+ TD season (really I want over 30), with some 2020s passing yardage, as well. I don't care if it's because of improvements in personnel and coaching. But, I will say that a true elite QB, which many believe Jones will be, should not need everything to perfect in order to just look competent.
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
What exactly happens in 4 months?
If you are going to remind some that they may look like asses, you should put yourself out there as well with what you expect to happen.
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
It’s precious how you continuously think you’re being cute with your infantile “chumps” rhetoric. So, who exactly in this scenario is the chump? Those that use facts, data and past history for their opinions or the ass clown that uses hopes, wishes and fantasies for theirs?
There’s only one CHUMP on this thread and it’s you. Chump.
You must be a Jones fanboy. Evidence: the guy that has called people he disagrees with “chumps” in several posts over several days and is defending Jones gets no reply from you. The minute someone that has been critical of Jones responds with the same “chump” comment, you get all hot and bothered and THAT’S when you respond with your hypocritical “anonymous internet tough guys” post. It’s freakin amateur hour around here.
You know what, I will continue to be critical of Jones
until he gives me a reason not to be. His play, in 5 years hasn't done that. His contract hasn't done that. And, I'm not getting completely sucked in if he has 1 good game either. We need to see consistently good play from him. Period. I'm not going to apologize for not loving less than mediocre play or for not overly enthusiastically applauding the one good year, 2022, which was a mediocre year by modern QB standards. When we see better than that, I will be more than thrilled.
That's a fair take. Listen, I get people being frustrated AF with the Jones dialogue. This is YEAR SIX & it feels like we're spinning our wheels with this 'Well, if _____ & _____, Jones might have a good season.' & there's a segment of us-which I fall into-that think we know what we got in Jones & are long past ready to move on. The discourse is repetitive, toxic, & tiring.
I think everyone-absent Jack Stroud-just wants to move on if only to stop debating Jones.
That's a fair take. Listen, I get people being frustrated AF with the Jones dialogue. This is YEAR SIX & it feels like we're spinning our wheels with this 'Well, if _____ & _____, Jones might have a good season.' & there's a segment of us-which I fall into-that think we know what we got in Jones & are long past ready to move on. The discourse is repetitive, toxic, & tiring.
I think everyone-absent Jack Stroud-just wants to move on if only to stop debating Jones.
I would love to NOT have to move on. But, for me, anything absent a ridiculous top 5 QB season, means this is the end of the line. I don't think that ridiculous season is a plausible outcome.
I admit, I was torn at the end of 2022. His season and the playoff win won me over just enough to want to re-sign him. Nut, the catch was I would only have re-signed him maxing out at $25M, which is more than I really thought they should pay him. I was resigned to the fact that even $25M seemed unrealistic and was expecting $30 or $35M. But $40M+? Come on.
And I don't want to hear about how in a few years that is middle of the pack. That is an obscene amount of money, which is still top 1/3 (or better?) in the league and he hasn't earned it. If he FULLY earns it this year, then let's roll. But, if not, they absolutely HAVE TO move on. The OL should be on the upswing, he has a true #1 WR with a pretty good supporting WR cast, and a decent enough RB and an intriguing rookie TE to go along with Bellinger. Plus, I expect the new DC to improve that unit to make them a competitive team this year. So, we better see more than mediocre play at the QB spot.
I recognize how annoying I am at this point, but I strongly advise anyone who thinks Jones won't return to get ready.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I recognize how annoying I am at this point, but I strongly advise anyone who thinks Jones won't return to get ready.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I’d be fine with that scenario as long as they drafted his replacement
I recognize how annoying I am at this point, but I strongly advise anyone who thinks Jones won't return to get ready.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I’d be fine with that scenario as long as they drafted his replacement
If they are looking for his replacement after this season, then that is $39M too much. Period.
I recognize how annoying I am at this point, but I strongly advise anyone who thinks Jones won't return to get ready.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I’d be fine with that scenario as long as they drafted his replacement
If they are looking for his replacement after this season, then that is $39M too much. Period.
While true….but the flip side is there is a place to replace him
As a parent going thru recovery with a 16 year old very high level wrestler we are being told the biggest time of risk is the 3-6 month post op mark. That is when the graft is at its weakest point. Each month after 6 the risk largely decreases up until the 9 month mark. At that time the risk of retear decreases very little from 9 months on.
His and anyone's return should be based on the metrics they hit.
Our return to play can happen anytime from 6 to 12 months. The criteria to return is this:
We are hoping to be cleared for the start of wrestling season which would be 9 months post op and are on pace to do so but will be cautious.
Best wishes on your son's recovery. Out of curiosity as a parent of wrestler myself (and having experienced similar injury in my own career), what school is he at?
The minute by minute trashing that happens here is childish.
I wanna break it down for you all.
Daboll made QBs look good everywhere, he is taking over play calling. People thought Tua was a bust, we can roll out the criticisms here. It turns out that if you marginally protect a QB and design an offense around playmakers, then have playmakers in the system, the QB looks good.
It will happen here.
The reason why we still have Jones is because Daboll wants him. He wanted a WR not a QB because he knows Jones has the skills to run HIS offense, Daboll was fiending over Nabers.
Because he thinks Jones sucks?
College is turning out playmakers, Daboll has an offense that focuses on the playmakers over the QB. Part of the reason Tua looked good at Alabama was Daboll.
Christian is right, 30m in 2025 might make Schoen look very smart. He either has a bargain QB or reasonable bridge on his last year. Looks good to me.
The minute by minute trashing that happens here is childish.
I wanna break it down for you all.
Daboll made QBs look good everywhere, he is taking over play calling. People thought Tua was a bust, we can roll out the criticisms here. It turns out that if you marginally protect a QB and design an offense around playmakers, then have playmakers in the system, the QB looks good.
It will happen here.
The reason why we still have Jones is because Daboll wants him. He wanted a WR not a QB because he knows Jones has the skills to run HIS offense, Daboll was fiending over Nabers.
Because he thinks Jones sucks?
College is turning out playmakers, Daboll has an offense that focuses on the playmakers over the QB. Part of the reason Tua looked good at Alabama was Daboll.
Christian is right, 30m in 2025 might make Schoen look very smart. He either has a bargain QB or reasonable bridge on his last year. Looks good to me.
Pffffft. Hahahahahahaha.
What a load of shit.
Defending Jones and making up shit to prove a narrative
past, NYGiant or non-NY Giant. He is a clear and known quantity. His body of work has approx. 60 starts.
And the chance that he still becomes what we want or need to win a superbowl is so extremely unlikely that it isn’t worth finding a comp in a desperate attempt to win a silly debate. That’s just grasping at straws and making the author of such posts look moronic.
RE: RE: I really think he is going to give every pundit and fan trashing him
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
Honestly I hope he does. I hope he has a winning season and over 30 total TDs.
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
He’s barely pushing off on his right leg, I think it’s pretty easy to see this isn’t a velocity drill, it’s just reps.
He had surgery on November 22 and 8 months forward is July 22.
At first glance I was a little skeptical he'd be ready, but after researching how quickly other players have returned recently, I was convinced his ACL injury wasn't going to be a factor in him being a Giant/starter this year.
It's simply not a devastating injury for a quarterback.
The other thing I noticed is he is moving with a more narrow base. He did one of these workouts last year and I felt like his base was very wide and put him in what looked to be slightly awkward posture to throw out of.
Of course let’s see if any of this carries over to the regular season. Also needs to be better at reading a defense if he’s going to truly take the next step as a QB.
The only thing PUP does at this point is preclude him from practicing. He still counts against the 90-man roster.
The only incentive to PUP him would be if they thought he was a risk to not be ready opening day, and the roster exemption that provides. And that would require him to miss 4 games.
They'll likely just manage his workload accordingly, and not PUP him.
That’s his injured leg, don’t think we are seeing his full lower half motion.
That's a good thing.
He was getting a little gun shy imv during that really horrific three game stretch of SF, Sea, and Mia. OL and run game were dreadful which made it exceptionally hard on DJ.
Be interesting to see if any lingering impact early.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
Probably not but if the OL can just be average, which is something we’ve barely seen with Jones here, he has a shot to be solid without running. Add in an elite talent like Nabers and there’s something to get excited about, IMO.
You notice he's using very little lower body and almost "whipping" the ball, however I don't know if this is possibly intentional as QBs like Mahomes and Rogers use a similar arm slot to shorten their release in certain situations.
Why? He looks terriffic, and said he's actually already making sharper cuts now than prior to the injury.
Quote:
he dragged his back foot so much. Is that intentional, from a mechanics standpoint I mean?
He's stepping into his throws.
That's a good thing.
Stepping in with the front, but I thought dragging the back took away velocity. At least that's something I was taught throwing a baseball a thousand years ago.
lol yeah no
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
Honestly I hope he does. I hope he has a winning season and over 30 total TDs.
He is moving well in the video. Should be ready for training camp
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
That would certainly poke a lot of holes in the "nobody works harder than Daniel" declaration we've heard ad nauseum.
Quote:
QB only, which takes away a lot of his effectiveness. Not sure he can perform as a "pocket only" guy
Why? He looks terriffic, and said he's actually already making sharper cuts now than prior to the injury.
Players don't just recover from these things immediately. He is in shorts, so it doesn't mean all that much. Wait until he gets under real pas pressure, and wait until he takes a hit or two. These things are as much mental as physical. He will be worried the knee will break again, get tentative and protect it a little, etc. Everyone does until they regain full confidence. Just because he runs around in shorts with no pressure doesn't mean he's all the way back. I would bet it takes 1/4 of the season for him to feel comfortable again.
Plus as pointed out above, its never really about his physical attributes it is about his mental ones. If as I suggest he stays in the pocket a lot more, that puts even more emphasis on his processing and ability to anticipate. So far in his career these are not his strongest points.
This may be what Schoen was alluding to when he mentioned Jones might not be a go until 3 or 4 weeks into the season.
And I know others have come back at 8 months (Adrian Peterson).
Peterson's return in eight months and two weeks is regarded as the greatest, most successful one from a torn ACL and knee reconstruction in recent sports history. National stories on Peterson in that 2012 NFL season had headlines such as “Adrian Peterson: Best ACL recovery ever?”
Quote:
I'm more worried about Sundays in pads.
Has he really always played well in shorts? There was a lot of criticism of his 2022 training camp and he followed that up by earning $82M in guarantees when the pads came on.
What a heartwarming tale. Almost as much fun to remember as thinking back to when you were still a credible poster instead of a DJ fanboi.
Phillip Rivers played the AFC Championship on a torn ACL and meniscus and had surgery and didn't miss a game the next season.
Let's see if he has a pocket this year. Last year it was more like a sieve.
WOW! That's great, you can analyze all that from a 10 second tape.
Yeah. Its called getting this shit knocked out of you in 0.8 seconds every drop back.
Lets see what happens if he has a little time and something that resembles a consistent pocket.
Quote:
An alarming lack of velocity, accuracy, and overall arm talent that will only get worse when you add a pass rush.
WOW! That's great, you can analyze all that from a 10 second tape.
Did you see on hard knocks where Schoen and his PR guy were talking about the mouth breathers trying to analyze body language during press conferences. Same thing here. Anyone who attempts to garner anything beyond Jones moving around pretty good 8 months post op from that tape is an idiot.
Quote:
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Quote:
In comment 16552366 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Weird that he has the same problems now as he did in college despite everyone around him being different
Overall, I'm not holding my breath. I've seen videos of Jones looking good in shorts.
Wake me up when:
- He can win in prime time
- He can win against winning teams
- He can get the Giants to a winning record, consistently
- He can throw a TD, and lots of them
Quote:
In comment 16552373 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16552366 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Weird that he has the same problems now as he did in college despite everyone around him being different
He went from the powerhouse of Duke football to the juggernaut Giant team.
Hope he is 100% healed and ready to play.
He went from the powerhouse of Duke football to the juggernaut Giant team.
Maybe if he was more talented he would have landed a scholarship at a football juggernaut instead of walking on at Duke.
He went from the powerhouse of Duke football to the juggernaut Giant team.
Quote:
Footwork looks quick as does the release.
Yes, he looks like a qb from central casting. Always has.
Hope he is 100% healed and ready to play.
The Mara way
Style over substance. Family edition.
Quote:
In comment 16552357 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
he dragged his back foot so much. Is that intentional, from a mechanics standpoint I mean?
He's stepping into his throws.
That's a good thing.
Stepping in with the front, but I thought dragging the back took away velocity. At least that's something I was taught throwing a baseball a thousand years ago.
Different motion entirely. Look at a pitcher and then look at a QB.
Quote:
In comment 16552482 kickoff said:
Quote:
In comment 16552373 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16552366 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
I think his issues have always been 100% mental. The question is why? And is it correctable? He’s got 3 big improvements going for him this year: OC stability, a much better OL coach that should translate, and much better talent all around him. There can be no more excuses or rationalizations.
I can answer the question: OL
Weird that he has the same problems now as he did in college despite everyone around him being different
He went from the powerhouse of Duke football to the juggernaut Giant team.
Read this scouting report and tell me what's changed in the 5 years since it was written. We've had defensive players on other teams practically confirm their scouting report on DJ is identical
Dave Te Scouting Report on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
When David Carr was on the Giants as Eli's backup, despite being much more mobile than Eli, Carr seemed to crumble or bail under the slightest pressure. I attributed that to the pummeling he took behind the Swiss cheese Texans offensive line.
I seem similar traits in Jones (i.e. doesn't trust the line, afraid of real and phantom pressure).
Jones seems to be almost diametrically opposite of Phil Simms regarding pressure. I can remember many occasions with Simms making tough throws when he knew he was going to be blasted (and you could get blasted a lot harder in the 70s, 80s and 90s). I can still hear Pat Summerall, "Simms ... with people in his face ... throws ...")
The Giants offensive line needs to improve AND Jones needs to learn how to trust it. Is Jones already too damaged as David Carr was by the time he was on the Giants? I think we'll learn that early in 2024.
there's always an excuse for Danny the Scholarship Boy.By year 9 it'll be he can't truly be the great QB he could be all because of global warming...afterall, how could anyone QB in that heat.
Due to slower reactions.....he needs a competent OL.
Daniel Jones came out of college winging it.....his conservativness started with Judge and he became risk averse.
I hope he is reading the tea leaves " he is not being paid to hand off"....and he has the horses and reliable options.
Much like Eli....the OL must be competent!
And let me guess, you’re going to be banging Margot Robbie as Jones is leading the team down the field for the winning score against the Chiefs in the Super Bowl?
He's going to do something he's never coming close to doing? OK...
I can't wait to see Tomon Fox get 27 sacks this year and prove he's better than Lawrence Taylor...hey this is fun!
Excluding '19, he's thrown a whopping 38 regular season TDs in 47 regular season games.
Quote:
For all of you chump haters that can't wait to bash DJ in every thread, see a 35 TD season.
He's going to do something he's never coming close to doing? OK...
I can't wait to see Tomon Fox get 27 sacks this year and prove he's better than Lawrence Taylor...hey this is fun!
To be fair, Fox has been held back by terrible coaches and teammates his entire life. He’s a victim of incredibly poor circumstances. I mean, did you see that sack he had against Tennessee in that magical ‘22 season? THAT is the real Tomon Fox so 27 sacks isn’t out of the question this season
Same. He is not the QB of the future for the Giants, but if he can have a career year we will have an interesting season and can possibly even get something for him in the offseason.
Quote:
I am ready to move on from Jones, but I hope he kills it this year. Because as many know, what the fridge do I know?
Same. He is not the QB of the future for the Giants, but if he can have a career year we will have an interesting season and can possibly even get something for him in the offseason.
If he has a career year he is much more likely to get a massive extension than be traded. This regime desperately wants him to be the guy
Quote:
In comment 16552354 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
I am ready to move on from Jones, but I hope he kills it this year. Because as many know, what the fridge do I know?
Same. He is not the QB of the future for the Giants, but if he can have a career year we will have an interesting season and can possibly even get something for him in the offseason.
If he has a career year he is much more likely to get a massive extension than be traded. This regime desperately wants him to be the guy
I know. I think Mara and Schoen are looking for excuses to keep him rather than trying to upgrade a position of weakness.
As for Mara, I think he loves Jones like he's a son.
More likely he throws 19 and you react like he threw 35.
As for Mara, I think he loves Jones like he's a son.
Then why did they try to trade up to #3?
Not buying that one at all
You don’t give up multiple number 1’s for a right tackle
Then why did they try to trade up to #3?
I can take a crack at this (again).
Schoen still likes Jones, but the injuries have become a major risk. So, he needed QB insurance, and he was willing to buy a longterm policy at a higher premium.
And since he was close enough in the draft to make a run at a QB on the highly desired rookie contract, Schoen gave Maye a serious look.
But he was only willing to pay so much. And ultimately backed out knowing he had a plan 1B: new WR for Jones and Lock on a one year deal as downside protection.
Quote:
Then why did they try to trade up to #3?
I can take a crack at this (again).
Schoen still likes Jones, but the injuries have become a major risk. So, he needed QB insurance, and he was willing to buy a longterm policy at a higher premium.
And since he was close enough in the draft to make a run at a QB on the highly desired rookie contract, Schoen gave Maye a serious look.
But he was only willing to pay so much. And ultimately backed out knowing he had a plan 1B: new WR for Jones and Lock on a one year deal as downside protection.
I’ll try this again
You have literally no idea what Schoen was willing to pay and neither do I
And yes….regardless of the deal or any deal for that matter there is always awaking away point….
Just more of the same nonsense that you keep spewing that the organization prefers Jones….heck else what else would you have to post about
Speculation is not fact
Quote:
Then why did they try to trade up to #3?
I can take a crack at this (again).
Schoen still likes Jones, but the injuries have become a major risk. So, he needed QB insurance, and he was willing to buy a longterm policy at a higher premium.
And since he was close enough in the draft to make a run at a QB on the highly desired rookie contract, Schoen gave Maye a serious look.
But he was only willing to pay so much. And ultimately backed out knowing he had a plan 1B: new WR for Jones and Lock on a one year deal as downside protection.
And let’s try this again
My response was that they weren’t trying to trade up to 3 for a right tackle
You choose to take the discussion into another direction which had literally nothing to do with my response
I’ll try this again
You have literally no idea what Schoen was willing to pay and neither do I
And yes….regardless of the deal or any deal for that matter there is always awaking away point….
Just more of the same nonsense that you keep spewing that the organization prefers Jones….heck else what else would you have to post about
Speculation is not fact
I thought speculation was clearly implied. Had it been a fact, I would have used "reported" or the phrase "we know".
I do think we can say for a fact that Schoen preferred Jones over Penix, Nix, and McCarthy.
This topic sure doesn't keep you away, either.
This may be what Schoen was alluding to when he mentioned Jones might not be a go until 3 or 4 weeks into the season.
And I know others have come back at 8 months (Adrian Peterson).
Peterson's return in eight months and two weeks is regarded as the greatest, most successful one from a torn ACL and knee reconstruction in recent sports history. National stories on Peterson in that 2012 NFL season had headlines such as “Adrian Peterson: Best ACL recovery ever?”
As a parent going thru recovery with a 16 year old very high level wrestler we are being told the biggest time of risk is the 3-6 month post op mark. That is when the graft is at its weakest point. Each month after 6 the risk largely decreases up until the 9 month mark. At that time the risk of retear decreases very little from 9 months on.
His and anyone's return should be based on the metrics they hit.
Our return to play can happen anytime from 6 to 12 months. The criteria to return is this:
1. Quad and hamstring strength at least 90% of opposite leg
2. One leg hop test and vertical jump at least 90% of opposite leg.
3 Jog, Full speed run, shuttle run, and figure 8 running without a limp.
4. Full controlled acceleration and deceleration.
5. deep squat and full rise from squat without issue.
6. No effusion or quadriceps atrophy.
We are hoping to be cleared for the start of wrestling season which would be 9 months post op and are on pace to do so but will be cautious.
Quote:
dated at this point, the risk of reinjuring the knee after an ACL redo is substantially higher at 8 months when returning to full athletic competition. Ten months you should be good to go.
This may be what Schoen was alluding to when he mentioned Jones might not be a go until 3 or 4 weeks into the season.
And I know others have come back at 8 months (Adrian Peterson).
Peterson's return in eight months and two weeks is regarded as the greatest, most successful one from a torn ACL and knee reconstruction in recent sports history. National stories on Peterson in that 2012 NFL season had headlines such as “Adrian Peterson: Best ACL recovery ever?”
As a parent going thru recovery with a 16 year old very high level wrestler we are being told the biggest time of risk is the 3-6 month post op mark. That is when the graft is at its weakest point. Each month after 6 the risk largely decreases up until the 9 month mark. At that time the risk of retear decreases very little from 9 months on.
His and anyone's return should be based on the metrics they hit.
Our return to play can happen anytime from 6 to 12 months. The criteria to return is this:
1. Quad and hamstring strength at least 90% of opposite leg
2. One leg hop test and vertical jump at least 90% of opposite leg.
3 Jog, Full speed run, shuttle run, and figure 8 running without a limp.
4. Full controlled acceleration and deceleration.
5. deep squat and full rise from squat without issue.
6. No effusion or quadriceps atrophy.
We are hoping to be cleared for the start of wrestling season which would be 9 months post op and are on pace to do so but will be cautious.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing and best of luck to your son!!
Quote:
I’ll try this again
You have literally no idea what Schoen was willing to pay and neither do I
And yes….regardless of the deal or any deal for that matter there is always awaking away point….
Just more of the same nonsense that you keep spewing that the organization prefers Jones….heck else what else would you have to post about
Speculation is not fact
I thought speculation was clearly implied. Had it been a fact, I would have used "reported" or the phrase "we know".
I do think we can say for a fact that Schoen preferred Jones over Penix, Nix, and McCarthy.
This topic sure doesn't keep you away, either.
Nor does it keep you away either….does it?
So back to my original point which was I doubt they would have traded up to 3 for a right tackle
You choose to not even remotely address what I said and go into a direction that I didn’t even address…well done
Nor does it keep you away either….does it?
So back to my original point which was I doubt they would have traded up to 3 for a right tackle
You choose to not even remotely address what I said and go into a direction that I didn’t even address…well done
It looks like I misread your post(s). My bad.
I never thought T was the target on the potential move up. That was agree on. I could have seen, however, going T at six.
Due to slower reactions.....he needs a competent OL.
Daniel Jones came out of college winging it.....his conservativness started with Judge and he became risk averse.
I hope he is reading the tea leaves " he is not being paid to hand off"....and he has the horses and reliable options.
Much like Eli....the OL must be competent!
If you want a downfield passing game, you can't sit back there and hang your o-line out to dry waiting and waiting for a receiver to come wide open before you decide to throw the ball. The defenders are too quick, too fast and have spent too much time studying your offense.
If you look at the play to Manningham in the Super Bowl, Manningham was blanketed when the ball was thrown; it was thrown to the spot where he was going to be open; where he had leverage.
Jones is not good at it and has never been good at it. I anticipate he is going to look much as he has: 200 yards and a td a game and Y/A south of 7 and a few more picks. It's a shame but it is what it is.
Quote:
Footwork looks quick as does the release.
Yes, he looks like a qb from central casting. Always has.
Hope he is 100% healed and ready to play.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
Quote:
He needs resources
Due to slower reactions.....he needs a competent OL.
Daniel Jones came out of college winging it.....his conservativness started with Judge and he became risk averse.
I hope he is reading the tea leaves " he is not being paid to hand off"....and he has the horses and reliable options.
Much like Eli....the OL must be competent!
The big difference between Jones and a good qb is that the good qb can see how the play is going to develop and where the window is going to be to throw the ball. Call it where the receiver has leverage if you like.
If you want a downfield passing game, you can't sit back there and hang your o-line out to dry waiting and waiting for a receiver to come wide open before you decide to throw the ball. The defenders are too quick, too fast and have spent too much time studying your offense.
If you look at the play to Manningham in the Super Bowl, Manningham was blanketed when the ball was thrown; it was thrown to the spot where he was going to be open; where he had leverage.
Jones is not good at it and has never been good at it. I anticipate he is going to look much as he has: 200 yards and a td a game and Y/A south of 7 and a few more picks. It's a shame but it is what it is.
Post of the day material... "ang your o-line out to dry" LOL. Watch some football dude and maybe you'll realize you got this one 100% backwards.
"he was going to be open; where he had leverage." Manningham WASN'T even slightly open and had ZERO leverage. Watch the play. It was as if Eli handed him the ball. Perfect throw, one of the best all time but Manningham, who made a great catch, wasn't open.
As for Mara, I think he loves Jones like he's a son.
I slightly disagree. Unless it was premeditated for the show since they’re stuck with him at least this season…when he said even Patrick Mahomes couldn’t succeed behind the OL we had. Not going all in on Barkley, our best offensive player, drafting Nabers and trying to fix the OL as best he could, I feel he still likes DJ… especially “IF” the talk of trading up was for Alt, Harrison, Nabers and not Maye.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
Yeah but we're not going to.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
I'm assuming I'm in your bucket of '25', but I really don't turn every thread into a 'Jones bashing thread'. To be quite honest, I don't really even talk about him much anymore because what's there to say? I'm dug in. You're dug in. Terps is dug in. There isn't really a lot of nuance here. & also, this is a thread about Daniel Jones! Haha.
Quote:
Big, strong, agile, and accurate. But then sucks on the field. There has to be a mental side of the game that has not clicked with Jones.
Yeah. Its called getting this shit knocked out of you in 0.8 seconds every drop back.
Lets see what happens if he has a little time and something that resembles a consistent pocket.
LOL. The excuses continue to continue. Hopefully the Giants will have surrounded Jones with the perfect scenario by 2028! Then, he can really show us something!
Delusional
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
When inevitably happens and people like you who have praised Jones on his ‘accomplishments’, it’s too bad you likely won’t be here because, you won’t be able to be reminded of your idiocy. You’ll be gone. Tail tucked.
Quote:
I have no issue with you thinking DJ sucks. I have no issue with you being bummed we didn't draft a QB.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
When inevitably happens and people like you who have praised Jones on his ‘accomplishments’, it’s too bad you likely won’t be here because, you won’t be able to be reminded of your idiocy. You’ll be gone. Tail tucked.
I would like you to find a SINGLE POST where I praised DJ's play. I'll wait.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
What are you going to say? "Hey, I told you jackasses that Jones would finally breakthrough in year six..."
I'll be glad to congratulate you on your foresight...
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
As a fan of the Giants, I root for Jones to succeed. Did I want a new QB? Sure. But, when they didn't get one, Jones remained the guy and our success as a team hinges on his success as a QB. With an improved OL and Nabers in tow, along with Robinson, Hyatt, and Slayton and a competent Singletary behind him, I do expect an improvement. As I have said, though, that improvement has to be HUGE to make a real impact.
As for bashing, again I don't see a lot of these threads as being turned into bashing. It is reality, Jones has not been a very good QB, regardless of why you think that. If you believe it is mostly due to the talent around him, then this year better be different. If you believe it is his deficiencies as a QB, then you probably don't believe any improvement will be significant enough to take us to the top of the division.
My take, and it has been pretty clear for 2 years now, is that he did not earn a $40M+ per year contract prior to signing it and he sure as shit didn't look like a $40M+ QB after. I acknowledge the OL sucked. But, I also believe a true elite QB makes more of things than he has. A true elite QB still elevates the offense, regardless. That doesn't mean I expected the offense to be elite, but they should at least look competent, which they have not. When multiple analysts show, even with pressure, where reads are missed, hot reads are missed, etc. I worry because that was year 5. Those should be the things we see regularly.
So, I am cautiously optimistic this year. I do like the OL coach signing and the OL FAs signed along with what seems to be a true #1 WR now, to compliment some other talented and young WRs. So, I do expect the offense to look a lot better. How much is what worries me. I am rooting for Jones to finally look like the QB who makes $40M+, but I am worried he won't until it happens.
I think a lot of the people who are critical of Jones, myself included, are doing so from a place of facts, stats, and what we see. I can't speak for everyone, but I confidently believe most of the posters would love to come here and eat crow. However, that crow will look more like "finally" than anything else. Ultimately, I would be thrilled if we finally see a 25+ TD season (really I want over 30), with some 2020s passing yardage, as well. I don't care if it's because of improvements in personnel and coaching. But, I will say that a true elite QB, which many believe Jones will be, should not need everything to perfect in order to just look competent.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
What exactly happens in 4 months?
If you are going to remind some that they may look like asses, you should put yourself out there as well with what you expect to happen.
Look forward to reading your next post 4xchamps.
My issue...The same 25 of you turning every thread into a Jones bashing thread. You bash the guy at every single opportunity. So yeah, I hope you look like the J@ck@$$e$ you are in 4 months. Oh and I'll remind you when you do...
It’s precious how you continuously think you’re being cute with your infantile “chumps” rhetoric. So, who exactly in this scenario is the chump? Those that use facts, data and past history for their opinions or the ass clown that uses hopes, wishes and fantasies for theirs?
There’s only one CHUMP on this thread and it’s you. Chump.
You must be a Jones fanboy. Evidence: the guy that has called people he disagrees with “chumps” in several posts over several days and is defending Jones gets no reply from you. The minute someone that has been critical of Jones responds with the same “chump” comment, you get all hot and bothered and THAT’S when you respond with your hypocritical “anonymous internet tough guys” post. It’s freakin amateur hour around here.
I think everyone-absent Jack Stroud-just wants to move on if only to stop debating Jones.
I think everyone-absent Jack Stroud-just wants to move on if only to stop debating Jones.
I admit, I was torn at the end of 2022. His season and the playoff win won me over just enough to want to re-sign him. Nut, the catch was I would only have re-signed him maxing out at $25M, which is more than I really thought they should pay him. I was resigned to the fact that even $25M seemed unrealistic and was expecting $30 or $35M. But $40M+? Come on.
And I don't want to hear about how in a few years that is middle of the pack. That is an obscene amount of money, which is still top 1/3 (or better?) in the league and he hasn't earned it. If he FULLY earns it this year, then let's roll. But, if not, they absolutely HAVE TO move on. The OL should be on the upswing, he has a true #1 WR with a pretty good supporting WR cast, and a decent enough RB and an intriguing rookie TE to go along with Bellinger. Plus, I expect the new DC to improve that unit to make them a competitive team this year. So, we better see more than mediocre play at the QB spot.
As usual you embarrass yourself and whoever raised your dumbass…..but looky here you actually said something meaningful. Progress!
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I’d be fine with that scenario as long as they drafted his replacement
Quote:
I recognize how annoying I am at this point, but I strongly advise anyone who thinks Jones won't return to get ready.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I’d be fine with that scenario as long as they drafted his replacement
Quote:
In comment 16553399 christian said:
Quote:
I recognize how annoying I am at this point, but I strongly advise anyone who thinks Jones won't return to get ready.
The terms of the contract make it very easy to keep Jones next year, at a steep cash discount.
He would only cost 30M in new dollars. It's essentially a 1/30M contract. If they intend on drafting a quarterback, that is a very attractive bridge deal for both sides.
I’d be fine with that scenario as long as they drafted his replacement
If they are looking for his replacement after this season, then that is $39M too much. Period.
While true….but the flip side is there is a place to replace him
Quote:
As a parent going thru recovery with a 16 year old very high level wrestler we are being told the biggest time of risk is the 3-6 month post op mark. That is when the graft is at its weakest point. Each month after 6 the risk largely decreases up until the 9 month mark. At that time the risk of retear decreases very little from 9 months on.
His and anyone's return should be based on the metrics they hit.
Our return to play can happen anytime from 6 to 12 months. The criteria to return is this:
We are hoping to be cleared for the start of wrestling season which would be 9 months post op and are on pace to do so but will be cautious.
Best wishes on your son's recovery. Out of curiosity as a parent of wrestler myself (and having experienced similar injury in my own career), what school is he at?
Criticism of Jones is warranted.
The minute by minute trashing that happens here is childish.
I wanna break it down for you all.
Daboll made QBs look good everywhere, he is taking over play calling. People thought Tua was a bust, we can roll out the criticisms here. It turns out that if you marginally protect a QB and design an offense around playmakers, then have playmakers in the system, the QB looks good.
It will happen here.
The reason why we still have Jones is because Daboll wants him. He wanted a WR not a QB because he knows Jones has the skills to run HIS offense, Daboll was fiending over Nabers.
Because he thinks Jones sucks?
College is turning out playmakers, Daboll has an offense that focuses on the playmakers over the QB. Part of the reason Tua looked good at Alabama was Daboll.
Christian is right, 30m in 2025 might make Schoen look very smart. He either has a bargain QB or reasonable bridge on his last year. Looks good to me.
Criticism of Jones is warranted.
The minute by minute trashing that happens here is childish.
I wanna break it down for you all.
Daboll made QBs look good everywhere, he is taking over play calling. People thought Tua was a bust, we can roll out the criticisms here. It turns out that if you marginally protect a QB and design an offense around playmakers, then have playmakers in the system, the QB looks good.
It will happen here.
The reason why we still have Jones is because Daboll wants him. He wanted a WR not a QB because he knows Jones has the skills to run HIS offense, Daboll was fiending over Nabers.
Because he thinks Jones sucks?
College is turning out playmakers, Daboll has an offense that focuses on the playmakers over the QB. Part of the reason Tua looked good at Alabama was Daboll.
Christian is right, 30m in 2025 might make Schoen look very smart. He either has a bargain QB or reasonable bridge on his last year. Looks good to me.
Pffffft. Hahahahahahaha.
What a load of shit.
Tired excuses and wishful thinking.
When you’re wrong, you likely won’t be here so, no worries.
And the chance that he still becomes what we want or need to win a superbowl is so extremely unlikely that it isn’t worth finding a comp in a desperate attempt to win a silly debate. That’s just grasping at straws and making the author of such posts look moronic.
Quote:
A big ol shit burger to eat.
Maybe getting paid took away some of the desire and drive? I think with his back against the wall and his career on the line along with a far more well rounded cast he has a big season.
Honestly I hope he does. I hope he has a winning season and over 30 total TDs.
Oh man, that's a lot of pick-sixes.