There was another thread which apparently got deleted, but it had to do with a Philly sports radio host saying it was a dick move by the Giants to make public the phone conversation between Schoen and Barkley. I'm not sure how these things work, but it's likely (at least in my mind) that airing it was approved of by Barkley and his agent. I only say this because it was mentioned in another video I watched (I can't recall which one) that the Commanders got approval from Howie Roseman before posting the "you're a pain in the ass" video clip. I don't know if it's a courtesy or a requirement, but I don't think the Giants would allow HBO to air that phone conversation without first running it by Barkley and his agent.
p.s.--If this was already discussed in the thread that got deleted, I will delete this one as well. I only saw the beginning of that thread before my day took me elsewhere and now I can't find it (which is why I'm assuming it was deleted) and I felt this was an important point to make if it hasn't already been made.
Talk taking hard knocks as gospel is super silly.
The cool parts to me is seeing the interviews. I’m especially thought Nabers has more of “that dog” in him versus Odunze and MHJ. Excited to see him get out there.
Actually, I think in New Jersey you have to tell someone they're being recorded plus he knew the team was doing hard knocks.
It still feels like an invasion of privacy though.
The guy is an unstable nutjob. It's not hyperbole.
Part of me feels like that is why Barkley seemed so withdrawn on the call, he knew he was being recorded.
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and I deleted it. Eric said that the Philly radio guy who called Joe Schoen an ass — Erskin - comes with a lot of baggage. I’d never heard of the guy before so I just deleted the thread.
The guy is an unstable nutjob. It's not hyperbole.
And a scumbag. He's been barred from Citizen Bank Park and the Sixers training facility for making a pass at an Aramark employee without her consent. Apparently it was on video.
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In comment 16552914 M.S. said:
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and I deleted it. Eric said that the Philly radio guy who called Joe Schoen an ass — Erskin - comes with a lot of baggage. I’d never heard of the guy before so I just deleted the thread.
The guy is an unstable nutjob. It's not hyperbole.
And a scumbag. He's been barred from Citizen Bank Park and the Sixers training facility for making a pass at an Aramark employee without her consent. Apparently it was on video. Link - ( New Window )
For kissing her. The radio station made him miss one of his Saturday shows - that will teach him.
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Actually, I think in New Jersey you have to tell someone they're being recorded plus he knew the team was doing hard knocks.
It still feels like an invasion of privacy though.
New Jersey and NY are one-party states. But if Barkley was in a two-party state such as Pennsylvania, it could be illegal there. That seems kind of murky. Does federal law take over in that event? Is it based on if you use it there.
Knowing the SB situation was not going to be pretty in the print media, they want to be able to say, “see, we wanted Saquon and X, but they didn’t want us. We have film of our ‘private’ discussions to prove it.”
After the Clown Show era, Mara wants to get his fanbase in order.
I don’t blame him.
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In comment 16552914 M.S. said:
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and I deleted it. Eric said that the Philly radio guy who called Joe Schoen an ass — Erskin - comes with a lot of baggage. I’d never heard of the guy before so I just deleted the thread.
The guy is an unstable nutjob. It's not hyperbole.
And a scumbag. He's been barred from Citizen Bank Park and the Sixers training facility for making a pass at an Aramark employee without her consent. Apparently it was on video. Link - ( New Window )
Sorry you beat me to it.
Knowing the SB situation was not going to be pretty in the print media, they want to be able to say, “see, we wanted Saquon and X, but they didn’t want us. We have film of our ‘private’ discussions to prove it.”
After the Clown Show era, Mara wants to get his fanbase in order.
I don’t blame him.
I highly doubt Schoen asked Barkley to give them a chance to match for PR purposes.
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Saquon definitely knew he was being recorded.
Actually, I think in New Jersey you have to tell someone they're being recorded plus he knew the team was doing hard knocks.
It still feels like an invasion of privacy though.
New Jersey and NY are one-party states. But if Barkley was in a two-party state such as Pennsylvania, it could be illegal there. That seems kind of murky. Does federal law take over in that event? Is it based on if you use it there.
That would be an extremely poor look if the Giants were like, "surprise! We've been secretly recording you for the last 3 months"
That's why I think everyone was aware of this ahead of time.
barkley says he told schoen he wanted to be a giant.
we have seen with our own eyes schoen put no offer in front of barkley and conducted no negotiations once the moratorium ended.
barkley's agent didnt question schoen pretty directly about whether or not they just wanted to move on for no reason.
it will be interesting to see how things played out but the giants made barkley no offers so he didnt owe them anything once he hit the open market. if he really wanted to be a giant id hope he did give them a chance to match but no GM can plan on a player granting them that kindness, and he may not have even had the choice. other teams arent letting their offers hang out getting shopped around as other free agents are going off the board. if the eagles said here's our offer but it may not be waiting if you shop it back to the giants, i call bs on anyone who thinks they'd pass on 25m gtd in a similar circumstance when the giants refused to offer that numerous times in the prior 2 years.
Actually, I think in New Jersey you have to tell someone they're being recorded plus he knew the team was doing hard knocks.
It still feels like an invasion of privacy though.
Actually, NJ law requires only consent of one party to a conversation, but I would think fairness requires Hard Knocks to advise the other party. I thought it was possible that Saquon's "attitude" was the result of him knowing he was being recorded.
Best of luck to Barkley in Philly. In a way, I think him being gone is a step in the right direction.
I think Schoen made that clear when after asking him to promise to come back for a chance to match, he went to "thanks for all you've done here" - I thought that was a telling thread of the conversation...he didn't have to say that right then
I'm sure every employee was given a boilerplate legal document to sign giving permission to be recorded.
I thought Schoen mapped it out honestly and fairly to the agent.
I hope he does well but not against us and it will be hard to watch regardless but I think from a player perspective he has improved his situation so you can't blame him.
The crowd will be amazing and epic. Will be loud and send chills down your spine. Then Barkley will carry for 35 yrd TD and MetLife goes quiet
Best of luck to Barkley in Philly. In a way, I think him being gone is a step in the right direction.
Di he go back to the Giants with the Philly offer? That we don't know yet (at least I think we don't). If he did, did the Giants decline to match or match and Barkley chose Philly? Again, we don't know.
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To go on Twitter the day after you sign with your former teams rival, get chippy with fans and claim you were never offered a contract when you knew there was a recording of you being offered one.
Best of luck to Barkley in Philly. In a way, I think him being gone is a step in the right direction.
Well, this recording didn't offer him a contract. It asked for a chance to hear what he was offered and decide if it makes sense for them to match.
Di he go back to the Giants with the Philly offer? That we don't know yet (at least I think we don't). If he did, did the Giants decline to match or match and Barkley chose Philly? Again, we don't know.
Saquon went on record the Giants never offered him anything. There’s a teaser at the end of the episode that confirms they offered him a contract. It didn’t happen during this conversation.
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In comment 16553001 Biteymax22 said:
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To go on Twitter the day after you sign with your former teams rival, get chippy with fans and claim you were never offered a contract when you knew there was a recording of you being offered one.
Best of luck to Barkley in Philly. In a way, I think him being gone is a step in the right direction.
Well, this recording didn't offer him a contract. It asked for a chance to hear what he was offered and decide if it makes sense for them to match.
Di he go back to the Giants with the Philly offer? That we don't know yet (at least I think we don't). If he did, did the Giants decline to match or match and Barkley chose Philly? Again, we don't know.
Saquon went on record the Giants never offered him anything. There’s a teaser at the end of the episode that confirms they offered him a contract. It didn’t happen during this conversation.
I do think Schoen came off sounding like a douche and was not convincing at all about trying to match. It sounded to me like just words to placate Barkley and try to prevent a PR problem. Again, I think it was the right call and I also understand 100% how that could annoy Barkley. I think he was right to go out and get what he could get and the Giants were right not to pay it. My only regret here is that he landed in Philly.
Not agreeing to that put a bad taste in both parties mouths; in Schoen's case he invested a ton of time/effort in negotiations and made a premium offer which was spurned over relative peanuts by a guy who professed to value being a Giant For Life. A guy who didn't want to be tagged and knew the tag was less cap favorable thus hindering Schoen's flexibility in improving the team with other signings.
Then comes the unexpected cap increase which let the Giants, the Eagles and everyone else aim higher in free agency. While also increasing the likely haul for top players at each position. Barkley and Burns were both in that group.
So essentially, the relationship fire was out, but embers were alive to re-sign Barkley at $7MM -- a number the Giants could swallow and in line with his likely value under the projected cap. But the higher cap doused the embers.
Even with the Hard Knock edits, it's pretty clear that Schoen was heavily leaning against re-signing Barkley as soon as the season ended. He repeatedly said it (wear and tear comments, positional value, etc.).
Barkley also didn't sound particularly "giddy" about coming back to the Giants when the season immediately ended. We know the Franchise tag pissed him off too.
This was a mutual breakup.
Trying to read more into it is silly.
Nothing else to see/analyze here.
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like a false narrative is being forwarded which is all too common these days.
In any event, I think eric in LI summed it up nicely above. I'm in the camp that Schoen had no interest in re-signing him, and all his actions suggest he was trying to placate Mara while ultimately sticking to his evaluation.
He hid behind the "let the market establish your value" when in reality, if they really wanted him, they would've been proactive.
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Who has the editing rights? I read on here that the Giants DO NOT choose what is in the video. The only veto power they have is something that hurts the team from a competitive standpoint.
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like a false narrative is being forwarded which is all too common these days.
In any event, I think eric in LI summed it up nicely above. I'm in the camp that Schoen had no interest in re-signing him, and all his actions suggest he was trying to placate Mara while ultimately sticking to his evaluation.
He hid behind the "let the market establish your value" when in reality, if they really wanted him, they would've been proactive.
There have been a number of statements from media types that have said the teams have the ability to remove content they are not comfortable with. Rich Eisen talked about this when thanking the Giants for releasing what they have released.
Nothing else to see/analyze here.
This is probably right, too. An awkward situation where neither party wanted to get anything done, but both felt the need to make it seem like they did.
This might be one of those situations where an inexperienced GM let things get too personal during negotiations, which ironically he was warning Daniel Jones about at the same time.
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In comment 16552914 M.S. said:
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and I deleted it. Eric said that the Philly radio guy who called Joe Schoen an ass — Erskin - comes with a lot of baggage. I’d never heard of the guy before so I just deleted the thread.
The guy is an unstable nutjob. It's not hyperbole.
And a scumbag. He's been barred from Citizen Bank Park and the Sixers training facility for making a pass at an Aramark employee without her consent. Apparently it was on video. Link - ( New Window )
I'm a bit confused, or maybe I'm just not up on current dating practice, but how do you go about getting permission to make a pass at someone? I understand if you make a pass and get rebuffed, move on ... but getting prior permission?
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In comment 16553010 robbieballs2003 said:
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Who has the editing rights? I read on here that the Giants DO NOT choose what is in the video. The only veto power they have is something that hurts the team from a competitive standpoint.
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like a false narrative is being forwarded which is all too common these days.
In any event, I think eric in LI summed it up nicely above. I'm in the camp that Schoen had no interest in re-signing him, and all his actions suggest he was trying to placate Mara while ultimately sticking to his evaluation.
He hid behind the "let the market establish your value" when in reality, if they really wanted him, they would've been proactive.
There have been a number of statements from media types that have said the teams have the ability to remove content they are not comfortable with. Rich Eisen talked about this when thanking the Giants for releasing what they have released.
There has to be some sort of limit or more specific language though right? I can't imagine they're "comfortable" releasing any of it.
A: Why didn’t I make Saquon? I wasn’t going to move him. We had a conversation about it, it wasn’t even a – I think some of you guys asked a question about that maybe a couple weeks before the trade deadline or the week of and just to eliminate distraction. I think we just said he’s one of our most productive offensive players right now. To move that guy, it just didn’t make any sense and we didn’t take any calls or receive any calls on him.
They weren't ready to tank. At the point they're making the decision, they're 2-5 with a game against Jets/Zach Wilson coming up they think they can win (and almost did) and their $40 million dollar QB coming back the week after that.
They didn't know Jones was going to tear his ACL.
When I say "they" didn't want to tank:
Mara certainly didn't want to tank for a draft pick QB, with Jones being his guy. And Mara is embarrassed by losses and always wants to win every game.
Daboll didn't want to gut his offense and pile losses on his resume.
Schoen would have shared that concern and not even thought about picking a fight on the subject. Trading Leonard Williams was one thing; Barkley another, entirely.
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In comment 16553001 Biteymax22 said:
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To go on Twitter the day after you sign with your former teams rival, get chippy with fans and claim you were never offered a contract when you knew there was a recording of you being offered one.
Best of luck to Barkley in Philly. In a way, I think him being gone is a step in the right direction.
Well, this recording didn't offer him a contract. It asked for a chance to hear what he was offered and decide if it makes sense for them to match.
Di he go back to the Giants with the Philly offer? That we don't know yet (at least I think we don't). If he did, did the Giants decline to match or match and Barkley chose Philly? Again, we don't know.
Saquon went on record the Giants never offered him anything. There’s a teaser at the end of the episode that confirms they offered him a contract. It didn’t happen during this conversation.
if we havent seen what happened yet why are we getting over our skis saying he lied? doesnt that remain to be seen? obviously there were prior contract offers last year. So far we have seen hard knocks through the tag deadline in march and there were in fact 0 offers from schoen, confirmed directly from him multiple times.
I do think Schoen came off sounding like a douche and was not convincing at all about trying to match. It sounded to me like just words to placate Barkley and try to prevent a PR problem. Again, I think it was the right call and I also understand 100% how that could annoy Barkley. I think he was right to go out and get what he could get and the Giants were right not to pay it. My only regret here is that he landed in Philly.
i think this is all exactly right.
The not tanking argument makes zero sense.
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Q. Why did you make Saquon unavailable at the trade deadline?
A: Why didn’t I make Saquon? I wasn’t going to move him. We had a conversation about it, it wasn’t even a – I think some of you guys asked a question about that maybe a couple weeks before the trade deadline or the week of and just to eliminate distraction. I think we just said he’s one of our most productive offensive players right now. To move that guy, it just didn’t make any sense and we didn’t take any calls or receive any calls on him.
They weren't ready to tank. At the point they're making the decision, they're 2-5 with a game against Jets/Zach Wilson coming up they think they can win (and almost did) and their $40 million dollar QB coming back the week after that.
They didn't know Jones was going to tear his ACL.
When I say "they" didn't want to tank:
Mara certainly didn't want to tank for a draft pick QB, with Jones being his guy. And Mara is embarrassed by losses and always wants to win every game.
Daboll didn't want to gut his offense and pile losses on his resume.
Schoen would have shared that concern and not even thought about picking a fight on the subject. Trading Leonard Williams was one thing; Barkley another, entirely.
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and this is something you can add to the list of schoen handling reactively vs proactively with strategy.
if he truly wanted to resolve himself of barkley, why was he considered such an important piece relative to leonard williams?
schoen had the power at the deadline, last offseason, and again this offseason. at all points he made the decision to maintain status quo instead of getting to yes in whichever way he chose (trade, extension, etc).
its like a few good men. why the 2 orders general? is barkley an important piece to helping the team (23 tag, 22-23 extension discussions, refusal to trade) or is he someone you just wanted to move on from (the way he handled 2024 offseason)? by his actions it seemed like they ended up the latter which is fine except he still contradicts himself when he says things like wanting the right to match an offer whether its for pr reasons or he means it. barkley got paid close in scale (24.5m) to what jon runyan (20.75m) will get over the next 2 years. the scale of this decision financially was a mole hill being made into a mountain. with any foresight they'd have closer to the amount they guaranteed singletary ($9.5m) of guaranteed $ remaining on Barkley's deal if they took the extension proposal MikeG/Dunleavey reported barkley offered last year (22-23m guaranteed, including the $10m tag amount nyg actually paid him).
The not tanking argument makes zero sense.
100% agree. if we pretend nobody had interest interest in LW or they decided to keep him, would they have had any discussion of franchise tagging him this past offseason? i highly doubt it.
schoen said it clearly when ed berry asked him directly "do you want to move on from him?" and schoen said "i dont know".
indecision from schoen is a consistent attribute of the 2 year saga.
That is the more interesting question to me as well.
Maybe I don't understand the protocols, but I was a bit surprised Schoen called Barkley after speaking with his agent. Why couldn't the agent tell Barkley about the decision?
I also wonder if Mara snuck a call into Barkley somewhere along the line. If not, that should be more evidence that Schoen is running the show.
Daboll's response to reporters makes his feelings on the subject obvious. The offense is his baby. Daboll would have had an ally in Mara, who would not have looked favorably, and in fact may not have approved, sabotaging the offense in the first year of Jones' big money deal.
Highly unclear what kind of mid-season return Barkley would have brought back. To get any kind of decent return, Giants may have had to agree to pay Barkley's salary for the rest of the year, as the Jets did in the Leonard Williams' trade.
Imagine asking Mara to do that.
By my reading of the Over the Cap comp pick ledger, the net of Barkley's free agency departure is that the Giants get a 4th round comp pick that they wouldn't otherwise.
If traded, Barkley may not have brought back more than a third.
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I fully believe Daboll did not want to trade Barkley. I'd guess if anyone wanted to trade him, it was Schoen.