Simms was a guest on the GM Shuffle podcast and he had a differing opinion on Jones from the mainstream sports media:
-Jones has good size and speed and throws an accurate ball.
-He was dealing with awful circumstances last year with an abysmal OL.
-He does not get enough credit for his running ability.
-If it was a 3rd and 9, he'd rather have Jones making the throw than Hurts.
He still said NYG was bidding against themselves on the Jones contract, but $40M is not a franchise debilitating salary.
I've posted a lot on stuff I've heard on the GM Shuffle, I've got to be fair when there is another POV too. Lastly, Simms has Jones as the 23rd ranked QB in his top 40.
Link below. The episode starts with NYG talk.
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But what do I know. I just think the game of football makes fools of us all when it comes to QB evaluation. My theory is it's the most team orientated game ever created and the QB position depends on the team or roster around him more than any other position in pro sports. And yes, the QB is the most important position. It's co dependent and the QB's talent level is vital to a team's success. Both things can be true. I know....blowing of the mind stuff right there.
Lamar Jackson
Pat Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Stroud
Lawrence (he was hurt in 2023, he's better than that)
Josh Allen
Tua
Dak
Caleb Williams (I am going there despite it being too soon)
Brock Purdy
Matt Stafford
Kyler Murray (he's fully healthy)
That's just me. Dak was developed the right way, played on good teams and is now a consistent QB. Not great. Doesn't win the big games for shit but he gets you there. Same for PUrdy but he's won playoff games and wasn't bad in the super bowl by any stretch. I love his vision and ability to slide in the pocket. Again, he came up in the perfect system HE's probably not THE Brock Purdy if drafted by the Browns or Titans or Saints. Drafted by the right team at the right time matters. A lot.
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In comment 16553866 bw in dc said:
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than Jones will ever have. He's actually more of afootball player than QB, IMV. And he has the winning chromosome.
I think Hurts is an average thrower at best. Same with Jones. So, I actually that similarity between the two.
But ask yourself this question. If you need to win a game, who are you talking?
Good luck making a case for Jones...
Both players on teams with equivalent talent? In other words Jones is not on this Giants team and Hurts is not on this Eagles team? Teams with equal talent...Remember Hurts is on one of the best teams in football while Jones is on one of the worst.
Or, let's switch teams = put Hurts on the Giants and Jones on the Eagles....now let's talk.
And remember I am not a Jones fan.
Put them on the same team and then talk.
Reversing the situations just keeps the same dependent/independent noise.
Either way, it will show Hurts is a beneficiary of a superior team with better players around him.
In no way am I saying Jones is a surefire SB QB with a team like the Eagles. I am agreeing that Hurts is on a team with vastly better players so is likely overrated.
Jones picked apart Minnesota twice in 2022. It was against an opponent that the Giants essentially were on par with. Now put him on the Eagles with a vastly superior line and vastly superior WRs and TE... (Giants WRs and TEs in 2022 were Hodgins and someone else.
I will agree Hurts in better "off platform". I think it is likely true, that it isn't that Jones is better but that Hurts is with a vastly superior team that made him look very good. He didn't look so good last year.
Well, Hurts lit Minnesota up in 2022 as well, just like most of the QBs who Minnesota played that year. So as far as I'm concerned, those performances by Jones are overstated around here.
Again, I can't make that leap that Jones would so much better on a better team and put-up numbers like Hurts did in 2022. That requires ignoring a lot of poor play in his five years here, especially when things did hold up and he still couldn't deliver. Yes, there have been times when his supporting cast didn't perform, but it's also been the other way around, too...
Every QB has shit day, ask Eli vs Minnesota. I do not want to seem to be saying Jones is "our QB", but am agreeing Hurts is likely overrated.
As far as you last sentence - again vastly more often the Giants around Jones were putrid. Without doubt Seattle last year clearly supports your statement Jones couldn't deliver when he should have and had the chance.
Clearly Jones absolute consistent ceiling is mediocre/middle of the pack.
It comes up 20 yards short.
The Eagles lose and Hurts punctuates the loss by revealing a stunning lack of arm talent.
Thanks for reminding me of this very play. I needed a good laugh and I did laugh greatly when it happened live lol hahahhaha
You are kidding, correct? I don't think I've seen a place overvalue a player more than BBI does with Jones and their excuses for him.
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Is winning a super bowl.
Hurts came pretty fucking close to winning a super bowl two years ago and they might've pulled it off if not for a questionable flag call on Bradberry. He's still 25 years old. Are you really 100% sure he'll never win a super bowl?
That wasn't questionable at all. It was the right call.
This is an absurd claim by Simms but he's know for them. He doesn't throw an accurate ball, and paying 40 million to a bottom 8 QB is debilitating to your franchise.
Hurts came 2nd in MVP and was incredibly close to a super bowl and also is entering his 4 starting season compared to Jones 6th. Will Jones ever get a MVP vote?
That's not all on the supporting cast. Outrageous argument.
Lamar Jackson
Pat Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Stroud
Lawrence (he was hurt in 2023, he's better than that)
Josh Allen
Tua
Dak
Caleb Williams (I am going there despite it being too soon)
Brock Purdy
Matt Stafford
Kyler Murray (he's fully healthy)
That's just me. Dak was developed the right way, played on good teams and is now a consistent QB. Not great. Doesn't win the big games for shit but he gets you there. Same for PUrdy but he's won playoff games and wasn't bad in the super bowl by any stretch. I love his vision and ability to slide in the pocket. Again, he came up in the perfect system HE's probably not THE Brock Purdy if drafted by the Browns or Titans or Saints. Drafted by the right team at the right time matters. A lot.
Jordan Love
Cousins
Goff
Herbert
Hurts (I think he and Jones are in the same class as passers, but you can't ignore the numbers which are completely one-sided).
AJ Brown was banged up in the last Giants game and missed their playoff game. Hurts scores 9 points and a first round exit to a barely mediocre Bucs squad.
He's a talented kid but he isn't Eben in the same universe as Mahomes, Burrow and Allen.
Add a few more:
Jordan Love
Cousins
Goff
Herbert
Hurts (I think he and Jones are in the same class as passers, but you can't ignore the numbers which are completely one-sided).
djm is one of a few BBI posters who thinks Jones is as talented as Herbert.
He's one of the few people on the planet who thinks this.
just sayin.
I guess I would agree that the gap isn't quite as significant as you think at first glance (mostly because I think Hurts is average) but I still take Hurts at the moment. Hoping for some improvement in Jones this year though and I think its not impossible for it to happen if we can protect him.
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Hurts rolls to his right sets his feet to launch the Hail Mary.
It comes up 20 yards short.
The Eagles lose and Hurts punctuates the loss by revealing a stunning lack of arm talent.
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but Hurts lost his footing on the play.
Roseman says he lost his footing when he gave Hurts 250 million.
Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all.
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With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.
Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all.
I dunno about that. A healthy Hurts on the Giants last season and they win 8 - 9 games.
2024: 13 M
2025: 21 M
2026: 31 M
2027: 41 M
I will stop there…..
2029. 97 M
The whole world knows Howie Roseman already has a plan to minimalize the 2029 cap #….
Why isn’t Brandon Brown showing us how to do what Howie does?
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In comment 16553901 Giant John said:
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With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.
Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all.
I dunno about that. A healthy Hurts on the Giants last season and they win 8 - 9 games.
A healthy Jones wins 8 or 9 games or a healthy Taylor, for that matter.
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In comment 16554110 OntheRoad said:
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In comment 16553901 Giant John said:
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With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.
Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all.
I dunno about that. A healthy Hurts on the Giants last season and they win 8 - 9 games.
A healthy Jones wins 8 or 9 games or a healthy Taylor, for that matter.
Wasn't a healthy Jones 1 - 5 with more interceptions than touchdowns.
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Add a few more:
Jordan Love
Cousins
Goff
Herbert
Hurts (I think he and Jones are in the same class as passers, but you can't ignore the numbers which are completely one-sided).
djm is one of a few BBI posters who thinks Jones is as talented as Herbert.
He's one of the few people on the planet who thinks this.
thanks for putting words in my mouth. Never ever did I say that but hey, win the BBI for a moment if u must.
I said Herbert hasn't won fucking shit in the NFL despite being BBI's darling. I also said despite all the bbi ball swishing on Herbert he (Chargers) literally scored nearly the same pts as Jones (NYG) did in the 2022 season despite...yeah...more talent on the Chargers which we all know is true.
I never said more talented. And yet, what the fuck has he won there beedub ? NADA. that's what. Thanks for playing. HE has a better arm and quicker release. Great. Until proven otherwise he's Jay Cutler.
Maybe Harbaugh helps him win games. Coaching and team play matters. Exhibit A is your wonderboy.
Maybe Harbaugh helps him win games. Coaching and team play matters. Exhibit A is your wonderboy.
Just busting your chops. I assumed you would get the sarcasm after our many discussions on Herbert v Jones.
2029. 97 M
The whole world knows Howie Roseman already has a plan to minimalize the 2029 cap #….
Why isn’t Brandon Brown showing us how to do what Howie does?
Brandon Brown wasn’t the cap guy when he was there and it is even clear he was involved with it to teach us what they did. Their cap guy did just leave his position and maybe we should hire him as our Asst GM.
Now could DJ do what Hurts did with Philly’s offense? Possibly. But I know for damn sure Hurts would do no better here.
Now could DJ do what Hurts did with Philly’s offense? Possibly. But I know for damn sure Hurts would do no better here.
You don't actually know that. Both sides of your argument are pure conjecture.
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Hurts couldn’t do any better than DJ did with the Giants offensive personnel. He has a top 5wr, top 15wr, top 5 TE, and arguably the best OL since he’s been starting. Outside of Saquon, and possibly (although Mailata & Johnson are beasts) , not one Giant would crack their lineup.
Now could DJ do what Hurts did with Philly’s offense? Possibly. But I know for damn sure Hurts would do no better here.
You don't actually know that. Both sides of your argument are pure conjecture.
According to Schoen, no one could win with our offensive personnel last year. Not even Mahomes. ;)
Exactly. Every QB besides Mahomes "hasn't won shit" and is a product of the surrounding talent. All QBs should make the league minimum and that money should be invested in the "supporting cast". Then just get a QB who is "hard working" and "easy to root for" so the fans can relate to the guy who gets all the credit for wins
Exactly. Every QB besides Mahomes "hasn't won shit" and is a product of the surrounding talent. All QBs should make the league minimum and that money should be invested in the "supporting cast". Then just get a QB who is "hard working" and "easy to root for" so the fans can relate to the guy who gets all the credit for wins
NYG has taken this theory a step further, however, by declaring a QB needs six years to be fully evaluated.
Let me get this right. You cannot to understand the nuances of roster construction. There is no doubt an elite QB can take a medium level roster to the playoffs that a mediocre Qb cannot do. This is true. See Tom Brady in the last 4 or 5 years.
On the other hand, Lets look no farther than the NY Giants 2012 to 2018 with Eli. Eli a bonafide top QB, same guy that won 2 Super Bowls in 4 years, couldn't get to the playoffs after SB46. Why was that? Because his roster sucked.
Most definitely, a great QB helps a team move forward. But it guarantees nothing.
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By some on BBIs logic, no QB can be successful if the team around him isn’t very good and every QB could be successful if the pieces around him are great. Does that about sum it up? With that being the case, I’d wonder why any team pays any QB anything? Why are they paying QBs 20% of the cap when they are so dependent on everything else around them? Hmmmm
Let me get this right. You cannot to understand the nuances of roster construction. There is no doubt an elite QB can take a medium level roster to the playoffs that a mediocre Qb cannot do. This is true. See Tom Brady in the last 4 or 5 years.
On the other hand, Lets look no farther than the NY Giants 2012 to 2018 with Eli. Eli a bonafide top QB, same guy that won 2 Super Bowls in 4 years, couldn't get to the playoffs after SB46. Why was that? Because his roster sucked.
Most definitely, a great QB helps a team move forward. But it guarantees nothing.
Of course the surrounding cast matters. But not surprisingly you missed the point. I’ve been reading posts on this site since Jones has been the starter that nobody could succeed with these pieces around him. There of course is no proof of that, but it makes you clowns feel better telling yourselves that. I’ve also seen posters claim that any QB could succeed in Philly or San Fran, while they try to minimize what Hurts and Purdue have done. Of course those minimizing those Pro Bowl QBs are also the same ones that praise Daniel freakin Jones. Based on nothing but hopes, wishes, fantasies and one incredibly outlier game against a horrific defense in the greatest Wild Card game ever played.
If you want to pretend Jones is some kind of hidden talent just waiting to explode, fine. If it makes you sleep better at night, who am I to ruin your dreams. But just STFU when it comes to much, much, much more successful QBs. There’s no need to bring them down just to try to prop your boy, it’s stupid
Sorry. Rant over.
Given their limited knowledge base, you might expect a little more humility. But Daniel seems to cast a powerful spell over certain people with his off the field qualities.
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Jones picked apart Minnesota twice in 2022. It was against an opponent that the Giants essentially were on par with. Now put him on the Eagles with a vastly superior line and vastly superior WRs and TE... (Giants WRs and TEs in 2022 were Hodgins and someone else.
I will agree Hurts in better "off platform". I think it is likely true, that it isn't that Jones is better but that Hurts is with a vastly superior team that made him look very good. He didn't look so good last year.
Well, Hurts lit Minnesota up in 2022 as well, just like most of the QBs who Minnesota played that year. So as far as I'm concerned, those performances by Jones are overstated around here.
Again, I can't make that leap that Jones would so much better on a better team and put-up numbers like Hurts did in 2022. That requires ignoring a lot of poor play in his five years here, especially when things did hold up and he still couldn't deliver. Yes, there have been times when his supporting cast didn't perform, but it's also been the other way around, too...
People here act like last year was an aberration. In 5 years he had one mediocre season that has been so overblown. And a couple of individual games against terrible Ds are given as evidence of his worth.
Philly and Dallas have excelled compared to Giants starting at the OL. In 2017, Philly had three PB OL and won the SB with a backup QB and LT. Dallas also had three PB OL. Philly again had three PB OL in 2022. Then better skill talent. Talent has been the issue for the Giants starting on the lines.
Giants had its first PB OL in 2022 since...2012. There is not a good QB in the league who does not have a significant amount of talent around him. Then the coaching aspect. Jones does has issues but the Giants have had bigger ones.
Sorry. Rant over.
I'm with you 100%.
It's absolutely mind boggling.
Jones is the 15th highest paid QB in the league... it's way overblown. It's probably 4-5 million more than he's actually worth on the market. If we could (we can't) hypothetically cut him, he'd be picked up in a minute by someone.
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to pay real stars. Jones is playing like a back up so his pay should be much lower
Jones is the 15th highest paid QB in the league... it's way overblown. It's probably 4-5 million more than he's actually worth on the market. If we could (we can't) hypothetically cut him, he'd be picked up in a minute by someone.
As a backup. Who is starting Jones over their current QB? LV?
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With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.
You are kidding, correct? I don't think I've seen a place overvalue a player more than BBI does with Jones and their excuses for him.
WOW! I see it as EXACTLY the opposite. Every thread is a kill DJ thread, even if the subject is "What are you eating today?"
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In comment 16553901 Giant John said:
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With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.
You are kidding, correct? I don't think I've seen a place overvalue a player more than BBI does with Jones and their excuses for him.
WOW! I see it as EXACTLY the opposite. Every thread is a kill DJ thread, even if the subject is "What are you eating today?"
That's because you think any observation that doesn't overtly gargle DJ's manhood is a "kill DJ thread."
Anyone want to give odds on DJ lasting as a starting QB another 10 years?
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