when he's in Schoen's office? I think he's looked grumpy, stressed or frustrated every time. You aren't happy at the oline signings? Burns? Saving like $8m per year at the RB position? I agree he's not pushing down the scale, but he definitely is not pleased, at least in the scenes that stuck with me. No fistbumps from that guy.
Thought it was an interesting insight when Rossetti said (paraphrasing) that “this guy is either going to be our starting RT or guard.” I know Neal is coming back from injury but I was wondering if that means he’s on a short leash in their eyes in general.
Having the Giants on Hard Knocks is like crack. I feel like I need a live feed in to Schoens office.
scan that room for a spare chair or trash can when they mentioned the deal that Barkley got? I think you could see the steam coming out of Mara's head.
Tim seems fairly incompetent and lurks around key decision-making. Not sure how much the staff really respects his insight; he just feels out of place to me.
Ultimately, McDonnell may be more dangerous than Mara since he doesnt appear to have the self awareness and believes he’s earned the right lead the franchise.
Mara didn’t bother me as much tonight. Yes, admitted he’d hate seeing Saquon go to Philly. We all wish it was an AFC team, but he also let Schoen make the call.
It’s clear managing up is part of Schoen’s job, but that’s not unusual in any org. He’s letting Schoen make the decisions.
If Mara got involved at all regarding the walk away price, or applied any subtle pressure on Schoen to match the Philly offer, they didn’t show it
That aside, cool scenes showing Schoen sweating the Burns trade, then holding firm by refusing to add an extra pick
They’ve mostly overlooked McKinney - just hinted the Giants weren’t going to come anywhere near what GB paid him.
Thought it was an interesting insight when Rossetti said (paraphrasing) that “this guy is either going to be our starting RT or guard.” I know Neal is coming back from injury but I was wondering if that means he’s on a short leash in their eyes in general.
Having the Giants on Hard Knocks is like crack. I feel like I need a live feed in to Schoens office.
This was perhaps the one big reveal I took from this episode. Behind the scenes they clearly think this guy is their new starting RT. What they have said publicly has seemed like backup or possibly OG, but that just isn’t the case. I for sure think they are not counting on Neal, he is going to truly have to win the job. And he should. Scholarships are over it’s year 3. Put up or shut up, Neal’s days are numbered. I’m gonna root like hell for him, but I’m happy they made moves to replace what is looking like a bust of a pick.
Episode 2 was the best so far IMO, but going back to the draft again next episode I think next weeks can be the best so far as we get a deeper dive into all the evaluations and players we took. The clip of Daboll claiming Daniels was absolutely worth it if they could land him is certainly interesting.
Strikes me as someone who's annoyed he never got to be GM here.
And I do agree that Mara needs to manage Mara, that will need to be a learned skill. I also would assume the majority of owners would provide an opinion on QB and most popular player. I don't think Mara is on an island there. I'm glad Schoen stood his ground.
It's also very clear to me Jones is a placeholder.
Tonight’s episode made it clear as daywho their FA targets were. Daboll made it clear, when he emphatically said “O Line”
They then keep showing their targets at OL. Runyon, Hunt and Eluemanor. Not on,y did they get two of he three. But the quote constantly mentioned throughout this thread is the “he will play art, or LG”
How is everyone glossing over the fact. That they went into FA target two Guards, and a RT…. That was by far the most telling thing to me about this episode. What they really think of Neal!!!
Tonight’s episode made it clear as daywho their FA targets were. Daboll made it clear, when he emphatically said “O Line”
They then keep showing their targets at OL. Runyon, Hunt and Eluemanor. Not on,y did they get two of he three. But the quote constantly mentioned throughout this thread is the “he will play art, or LG”
How is everyone glossing over the fact. That they went into FA target two Guards, and a RT…. That was by far the most telling thing to me about this episode. What they really think of Neal!!!
Yes, they don’t have any faith in him. I think it’s Elemeanuer’s job to lose. Nelson’s gonna have to win a spot by proving he can protect the QB.
Daboll was trying to keep HBO from being able to use the footage. He said he would play copyrighted music so HBO wouldn't be able to use the footage without paying for the rights.
I guess HBO said, "screw it, let's pay for the rights. We want this scene." Hilarious.
As I've said after every episode Mara is the old Grandpa wandering in to the building from time to time to check out the old family business. Schoen definitely has to navigate around him but he seems definitely up to the challenge. One thing about it appearing that we got all our main targets in free agency. Remember this is heavily edited. They're mainly gonna show us getting the guys we got. Unless it was a huge name we missed out on they're not gonna show the guys we wanted but didn't get. One thing that struck me is how little Schoen was involved with the initial contact with the free agents and their reps and numbers. They really just come to him with the numbers of the offers. I know you have a negotiating team, just thought the GM is more involved in the initial contact, although I guess that's impossible with so many irons in the fire at once.
Daboll was trying to keep HBO from being able to use the footage. He said he would play copyrighted music so HBO wouldn't be able to use the footage without paying for the rights.
I guess HBO said, "screw it, let's pay for the rights. We want this scene." Hilarious.
Came to say this, Dabes did it on purpose. He said that was his plan at the Giants event at MSG. He made HBO open their pocketbooks because then content was so good.
have a real appetite to work in a front office. Which is perfectly fine. He seems more into the X's and O's and coaching. Hell probably be more into the personnel decisions at the draft. Who knows though maybe it's just his disdain with being on the show in general. Just seems like before free agency he's get real quiet when Schoen asked for his input and really wasn't in the room when most of the day was going down.
1) Mara is a meddler, despite how hard some on here try to dispute that. Schoen has little give when it comes to Mara (at least this offseason).
This is completely correct.
Listen there's no doubt Mara was giving a lot of input on Saquon. That was a unique personell decision stretched out over 2 off seasons in that he was the biggest name and "face of the franchise". Most owners are going to give input on that unique circumstance. If Mara was in Schoen's ear over Eluemunor or Runyan I'd be more concerned.
The second point. Daboll wants to move on from Daniel Jones asap. One of the reasons they didn't like McCarthy is because they didn't want "another Daniel Jones"
isn't it Mara's job, as the representative of all the owners, to voice to Schoen that Barkley is the most popular player (with the subtext that he's a money-maker)?
It would be one thing if Mara owned the team himself. But he's representing several Maras and Tisches; I think he has the obligation to at least make Schoen aware that there's a financial component to the decision.
I'm happy he let Schoen pass on Saquon.
I also do believe he's too involved, but I'm not quite sure that this particular decision is fully representative of that.
I agree. I just hate that 31 other teams and fanbases get to see it too.
I again came away with positive impressions of Schoen, Burns and most of his staff.
John Mara comes in and acts like he’s the janitor BSing with the GM. Mara should worry about the next medium Pepsi deal and stay out of the football business.
Schoen is clearly walking a tight rope between trying to build the best roster while dealing with a boss born on third base believing he hit a triple.
very interesting that they would have done both runyan and hunt if they could have afforded it. also interesting given how close they obviously are that d-mo did ended up going big for hunt too and pairing him with lewis.
we all knew mike g was well sourced but clips of him on nfl network accurately reporting on joe schoen's nervous system during FA negotiations were a whole different level.
to those that seem to think nfl ops are run like blind trusts, can you name an nfl team that actually runs that way?
notice morgan took a day to get back to schoen from his conversation with tepper? and every owner is in every draft room? what owner/ceo of what type of 6 billion $ entertainment business do you expect to not have an opinion when it comes to big public facing decisions?
1. Schoen defers to pro personnel guys from FA decisions, which is interesting
2. Free Agency is not as black and white as some of us fans make it out to be. There is a lot the org can’t control - and ultimately it comes down to the player deciding what he wants. There was a plan, but at the end of the day the team is just trying to get the best players they can with what they have available.
3. Mara is meddling, but ultimately deferring to Schoen and co
4. Motor was a Daboll move through and through
5. Based on the teaser, QB trade up was the #1 priority on the draft - Dabes seems to be the driving force behind it.
6. Don’t think they had any intention of paying McKinney…haven’t heard much about him.
7. Where is Kafka
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
The Kafka stuff is definitely bizarre. Like give the guy a vanity scene or two like Bowen. We've basically only heard bowen say 'pass rush' but at least he's present.
I think Schoen's comment about Eluemunor was that "he was their top guy" which i took to mean the Raiders, which he'd probably know bc of Bricillo, and had to be the guy pushing for him in the first place. that doesn't entirely make sense because kolton miller is obviously a better player, but maybe bricillo had eluemeanor graded out highest on that line? obviously with the deal he got nobody else around the league thought eluemeanor was the #1 anything.
it also seemed like if they could have gotten hunt/runyan they would have done that which i think would have meant no elumeanor.
The second point. Daboll wants to move on from Daniel Jones asap. One of the reasons they didn't like McCarthy is because they didn't want "another Daniel Jones"
1. They have to let Mara talk,they don't have to listen.
2. JS got the numbers for Barkely and then when he called the agent later he was told he would have to go north of it. So basically the giants had to beat not match the deal. I wonder if Philly got the same call and they increased their offer to beat the top offer. We don't know if they would have given him the previously discussed terms.
3. They wanted all 3 OL but said the extra money took for Runyon took Hunt off the table. Hunt got a ton of money were they ready to go there. Joe and Daboll discussed OL as number 1 over pass rush does this lead to if we could get Hunt that meant no Burns? Or was Burns only an option after we knew Barkley was gone?
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
The Kafka stuff is definitely bizarre. Like give the guy a vanity scene or two like Bowen. We've basically only heard bowen say 'pass rush' but at least he's present.
I think Schoen's comment about Eluemunor was that "he was their top guy" which i took to mean the Raiders, which he'd probably know bc of Bricillo, and had to be the guy pushing for him in the first place. that doesn't entirely make sense because kolton miller is obviously a better player, but maybe bricillo had eluemeanor graded out highest on that line? obviously with the deal he got nobody else around the league thought eluemeanor was the #1 anything.
it also seemed like if they could have gotten hunt/runyan they would have done that which i think would have meant no elumeanor.
Yeah I think that’s right. They had that other Oline (Hunt?) as a target to for a lot more money so must mean the raiders best lineman. Ties into the comment from Schoen earlier about walkway point.
way Schoen kept referring to Elumenor as "their" number 1 guy made me feel like he was talking about the coaching staff. Saying it to Daboll in one conversation and then the front office staff in another makes me think the "their" he's referencing is Carmen Bricillo and maybe James Ferentz. The fact the two times he said it once was to the pro personell staff and once to Daboll makes me think the only "their" who wasn't in the room on either occasion was the o-line coaches. I too thought the most important takeaway from the episode was that they went into free agency with the intent to come out with 3 new starters; makes me scratch my head a little bit that no o-lineman were drafted at all after missing out on Hunt.
we were trading up or taking whatever QB was left at 6 or who knew we were all in on McCarthy now are certain (based on absolutely nothing) that Daboll wants a new QB.
with obvious caveat that I’m over analyzing an edited segment, and there were no doubt more discussions behind the scenes were not privy to…IMO Schoen seemed relieved with the finality of being able to say “we’re out” on Saquon. I suspect he really didn’t want to commit the money/years to RB, as has been discussed
That gave him cover to tell Mara et al Saquon’s price got too high, rather than having to have it out over whether they wanted him back at all
1. Schoen defers to pro personnel guys from FA decisions, which is interesting
2. Free Agency is not as black and white as some of us fans make it out to be. There is a lot the org can’t control - and ultimately it comes down to the player deciding what he wants. There was a plan, but at the end of the day the team is just trying to get the best players they can with what they have available.
3. Mara is meddling, but ultimately deferring to Schoen and co
4. Motor was a Daboll move through and through
5. Based on the teaser, QB trade up was the #1 priority on the draft - Dabes seems to be the driving force behind it.
6. Don’t think they had any intention of paying McKinney…haven’t heard much about him.
7. Where is Kafka
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
On no 2: What struck me is how frustrated Schoen and his FO seemed by this. They try to boil FA down to a science: player eval and salary cap room. Signing a guy may mean losing a guy and vice versa. But no matter how much time they spend and discussions into the early morning, they have no control. It's at the mercy of the players and the other teams who have more money to spend.
we were trading up or taking whatever QB was left at 6 or who knew we were all in on McCarthy now are certain (based on absolutely nothing) that Daboll wants a new QB.
His eyes lit up like he saw a pair of tits for the first time at the mere suggestion of trading of for Daniels.
Tim seems fairly incompetent and lurks around key decision-making. Not sure how much the staff really respects his insight; he just feels out of place to me.
Ultimately, McDonnell may be more dangerous than Mara since he doesnt appear to have the self awareness and believes he’s earned the right lead the franchise.
McDonnell is an incompetent. That was obvious in the first episode.
In retrospect, this suggests to me that Gettleman was either unable or unwilling to manage Mara to move this team forward.
Gettleman wanted to stick with Shurmur, Mara wanted to make a change. We hear a lot about Gettleman's arrogance on BBI, but he may have been collaborative to a fault when it came to accommodating Mara and Joe Judge (the Toney vs Darrisaw?).
The second point. Daboll wants to move on from Daniel Jones asap. One of the reasons they didn't like McCarthy is because they didn't want "another Daniel Jones"
They aren't anything alike.
That quote comes directly from a member of the Giants organization who is heavily involved in the draft process.
I don't have HBO and so I haven't seen the past two episodes
But based on the first episode, I think what we're seeing from Mara, McDonald, Rosetti, etc, when they offer opposing points to Schoen's contentions is simply a case of them doing their jobs in voicing to the ultimate decision maker the flipside to any decision he is considering. Every personnel decision comes with its share of pro's and con's and it's up to a manager's support team to make sure he's checked all the relevant boxes before making a decision.
Having the Giants on Hard Knocks is like crack. I feel like I need a live feed in to Schoens office.
Ultimately, McDonnell may be more dangerous than Mara since he doesnt appear to have the self awareness and believes he’s earned the right lead the franchise.
It’s clear managing up is part of Schoen’s job, but that’s not unusual in any org. He’s letting Schoen make the decisions.
If Mara got involved at all regarding the walk away price, or applied any subtle pressure on Schoen to match the Philly offer, they didn’t show it
That aside, cool scenes showing Schoen sweating the Burns trade, then holding firm by refusing to add an extra pick
They’ve mostly overlooked McKinney - just hinted the Giants weren’t going to come anywhere near what GB paid him.
Now, that would have been an epic Hard Knocks...
I had to rewind a couple times but it sounded like "I think we will be, too."
Having the Giants on Hard Knocks is like crack. I feel like I need a live feed in to Schoens office.
This was perhaps the one big reveal I took from this episode. Behind the scenes they clearly think this guy is their new starting RT. What they have said publicly has seemed like backup or possibly OG, but that just isn’t the case. I for sure think they are not counting on Neal, he is going to truly have to win the job. And he should. Scholarships are over it’s year 3. Put up or shut up, Neal’s days are numbered. I’m gonna root like hell for him, but I’m happy they made moves to replace what is looking like a bust of a pick.
Episode 2 was the best so far IMO, but going back to the draft again next episode I think next weeks can be the best so far as we get a deeper dive into all the evaluations and players we took. The clip of Daboll claiming Daniels was absolutely worth it if they could land him is certainly interesting.
And I do agree that Mara needs to manage Mara, that will need to be a learned skill. I also would assume the majority of owners would provide an opinion on QB and most popular player. I don't think Mara is on an island there. I'm glad Schoen stood his ground.
It's also very clear to me Jones is a placeholder.
They then keep showing their targets at OL. Runyon, Hunt and Eluemanor. Not on,y did they get two of he three. But the quote constantly mentioned throughout this thread is the “he will play art, or LG”
How is everyone glossing over the fact. That they went into FA target two Guards, and a RT…. That was by far the most telling thing to me about this episode. What they really think of Neal!!!
They then keep showing their targets at OL. Runyon, Hunt and Eluemanor. Not on,y did they get two of he three. But the quote constantly mentioned throughout this thread is the “he will play art, or LG”
How is everyone glossing over the fact. That they went into FA target two Guards, and a RT…. That was by far the most telling thing to me about this episode. What they really think of Neal!!!
Yes, they don’t have any faith in him. I think it’s Elemeanuer’s job to lose. Nelson’s gonna have to win a spot by proving he can protect the QB.
music going on. It’s fucking distracting.
Daboll was trying to keep HBO from being able to use the footage. He said he would play copyrighted music so HBO wouldn't be able to use the footage without paying for the rights.
I guess HBO said, "screw it, let's pay for the rights. We want this scene." Hilarious.
How many people don’t have to manage their bosses when you want to get something done that they are unsure about or playing devil’s advocate.
Turned out Neal’s ankle injury last season was worse than we were led to believe, and part of it is they’re not 100% he’ll be ready after surgery.
Or even if he is, spending the offseason rehabbing it means his choppy footwork is no sure thing to improve
Quote:
music going on. It’s fucking distracting.
Daboll was trying to keep HBO from being able to use the footage. He said he would play copyrighted music so HBO wouldn't be able to use the footage without paying for the rights.
I guess HBO said, "screw it, let's pay for the rights. We want this scene." Hilarious.
Came to say this, Dabes did it on purpose. He said that was his plan at the Giants event at MSG. He made HBO open their pocketbooks because then content was so good.
"THIS MAY BE ABOVE ME." Was his quote.
I paused at this moment, does he mean the price is too high? or does he mean Mara "ie management above him" needs to be in on the final decision.
Well, it almost wasn’t…. They targeted two guards a tackle. That to me was by far the most telling thing in the episode.
More so than SB decided he wanted to be an Eagle more than in the Ring of Honor
2) Daboll wants a QB improvement asap.
This is completely correct.
Quote:
1) Mara is a meddler, despite how hard some on here try to dispute that. Schoen has little give when it comes to Mara (at least this offseason).
This is completely correct.
Listen there's no doubt Mara was giving a lot of input on Saquon. That was a unique personell decision stretched out over 2 off seasons in that he was the biggest name and "face of the franchise". Most owners are going to give input on that unique circumstance. If Mara was in Schoen's ear over Eluemunor or Runyan I'd be more concerned.
It would be one thing if Mara owned the team himself. But he's representing several Maras and Tisches; I think he has the obligation to at least make Schoen aware that there's a financial component to the decision.
I'm happy he let Schoen pass on Saquon.
I also do believe he's too involved, but I'm not quite sure that this particular decision is fully representative of that.
I replayed this 5 times and still couldn't understand what Mara said after he left Schoen's office. And closed caption didn't get it either.
Managing your boss is always the part of any gig
I again came away with positive impressions of Schoen, Burns and most of his staff.
John Mara comes in and acts like he’s the janitor BSing with the GM. Mara should worry about the next medium Pepsi deal and stay out of the football business.
Schoen is clearly walking a tight rope between trying to build the best roster while dealing with a boss born on third base believing he hit a triple.
we all knew mike g was well sourced but clips of him on nfl network accurately reporting on joe schoen's nervous system during FA negotiations were a whole different level.
to those that seem to think nfl ops are run like blind trusts, can you name an nfl team that actually runs that way?
notice morgan took a day to get back to schoen from his conversation with tepper? and every owner is in every draft room? what owner/ceo of what type of 6 billion $ entertainment business do you expect to not have an opinion when it comes to big public facing decisions?
2. Free Agency is not as black and white as some of us fans make it out to be. There is a lot the org can’t control - and ultimately it comes down to the player deciding what he wants. There was a plan, but at the end of the day the team is just trying to get the best players they can with what they have available.
3. Mara is meddling, but ultimately deferring to Schoen and co
4. Motor was a Daboll move through and through
5. Based on the teaser, QB trade up was the #1 priority on the draft - Dabes seems to be the driving force behind it.
6. Don’t think they had any intention of paying McKinney…haven’t heard much about him.
7. Where is Kafka
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
7. Where is Kafka
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
The Kafka stuff is definitely bizarre. Like give the guy a vanity scene or two like Bowen. We've basically only heard bowen say 'pass rush' but at least he's present.
I think Schoen's comment about Eluemunor was that "he was their top guy" which i took to mean the Raiders, which he'd probably know bc of Bricillo, and had to be the guy pushing for him in the first place. that doesn't entirely make sense because kolton miller is obviously a better player, but maybe bricillo had eluemeanor graded out highest on that line? obviously with the deal he got nobody else around the league thought eluemeanor was the #1 anything.
it also seemed like if they could have gotten hunt/runyan they would have done that which i think would have meant no elumeanor.
They aren't anything alike.
2. JS got the numbers for Barkely and then when he called the agent later he was told he would have to go north of it. So basically the giants had to beat not match the deal. I wonder if Philly got the same call and they increased their offer to beat the top offer. We don't know if they would have given him the previously discussed terms.
3. They wanted all 3 OL but said the extra money took for Runyon took Hunt off the table. Hunt got a ton of money were they ready to go there. Joe and Daboll discussed OL as number 1 over pass rush does this lead to if we could get Hunt that meant no Burns? Or was Burns only an option after we knew Barkley was gone?
Quote:
7. Where is Kafka
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
The Kafka stuff is definitely bizarre. Like give the guy a vanity scene or two like Bowen. We've basically only heard bowen say 'pass rush' but at least he's present.
I think Schoen's comment about Eluemunor was that "he was their top guy" which i took to mean the Raiders, which he'd probably know bc of Bricillo, and had to be the guy pushing for him in the first place. that doesn't entirely make sense because kolton miller is obviously a better player, but maybe bricillo had eluemeanor graded out highest on that line? obviously with the deal he got nobody else around the league thought eluemeanor was the #1 anything.
it also seemed like if they could have gotten hunt/runyan they would have done that which i think would have meant no elumeanor.
Yeah I think that’s right. They had that other Oline (Hunt?) as a target to for a lot more money so must mean the raiders best lineman. Ties into the comment from Schoen earlier about walkway point.
That gave him cover to tell Mara et al Saquon’s price got too high, rather than having to have it out over whether they wanted him back at all
2. Free Agency is not as black and white as some of us fans make it out to be. There is a lot the org can’t control - and ultimately it comes down to the player deciding what he wants. There was a plan, but at the end of the day the team is just trying to get the best players they can with what they have available.
3. Mara is meddling, but ultimately deferring to Schoen and co
4. Motor was a Daboll move through and through
5. Based on the teaser, QB trade up was the #1 priority on the draft - Dabes seems to be the driving force behind it.
6. Don’t think they had any intention of paying McKinney…haven’t heard much about him.
7. Where is Kafka
8. They seem to be very high on Eluemunor - Schoen kept referring to him as their #1 guy.
On no 2: What struck me is how frustrated Schoen and his FO seemed by this. They try to boil FA down to a science: player eval and salary cap room. Signing a guy may mean losing a guy and vice versa. But no matter how much time they spend and discussions into the early morning, they have no control. It's at the mercy of the players and the other teams who have more money to spend.
His eyes lit up like he saw a pair of tits for the first time at the mere suggestion of trading of for Daniels.
Ultimately, McDonnell may be more dangerous than Mara since he doesnt appear to have the self awareness and believes he’s earned the right lead the franchise.
McDonnell is an incompetent. That was obvious in the first episode.
Quote:
The second point. Daboll wants to move on from Daniel Jones asap. One of the reasons they didn't like McCarthy is because they didn't want "another Daniel Jones"
They aren't anything alike.
That quote comes directly from a member of the Giants organization who is heavily involved in the draft process.