we were trading up or taking whatever QB was left at 6 or who knew we were all in on McCarthy now are certain (based on absolutely nothing) that Daboll wants a new QB.
Every tidbit of information for two years has told them the exact same thing, including the 84 million guaranteed.
- Don't take what you see in the teasers as gospel. One week it made it seem like a contract was offered to Saquon, the next week confirmed there was not
- Despite Saquon saying "we never offered him a contract" there was clearly an intent to resign him within the organization and truth be told, they did right by him by letting him explore
- "Meddling Mara" is very much a thing. So far this series has confirmed him to be exactly what I thought he was. A passive aggressive meddler who's words say one thing, but actions say another
- Something tells me 18 months ago Schoen would let himself be influenced by the Meddling but has gotten to a point where he realizes he needs to ignore it
- I wouldn't trust having Tim McDonnell around me at all if I were Schoen, he seems to be a mouthpiece for John
- Very quick and innocuous comment about Eleumunor that "he could play RT or G", telling in regards to long term plans for Neal
- All FA seemed to costs exactly $1mil more than they guessed they would, seemed a little staged
- Daboll was clearly conscious he was on camera during the scene talking about FA, did not seem comfortable talking while being filmed. HBO must have paid up for music rights on that one...
But it's comical....some here calls the owner....meddling!
I owned several businesses and yes, the owner better be knee deep in meddling!
I view Mara as a decent man....who cares for his players...past and present and concerned how fans will respond to some of their moves.
And as far "meddling"...seems very minor and controlled.
If I was Mara and thought Barkley was the Giants fans favorite player and he went to the Eagles....I would not take it so well.
I'm going to disagree here. I also come from a small business background before going into the corporate world and basically starting businesses within business.
While John has a right to convey his feelings, when you're in a production orientated business you have to realize this may be counterproductive to the overall goal. Given the results since 2012, its hard to argue he's been effective as an owner...
Also keep in mind that they're also paying Joe Schoen millions of dollars a year. Its not good business to spend that money on a high level employee and push to influence their decisions just to placate your own emotions.
Also, please remember when you refer to Mara as the owner, this also isn't a factual statement. He's "an" owner that was voted by the others to be President of the team. His personal stake in the team is actually substantially lower that Tisch's.
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
- "Meddling Mara" is very much a thing. So far this series has confirmed him to be exactly what I thought he was. A passive aggressive meddler who's words say one thing, but actions say another
- Something tells me 18 months ago Schoen would let himself be influenced by the Meddling but has gotten to a point where he realizes he needs to ignore it
- I wouldn't trust having Tim McDonnell around me at all if I were Schoen, he seems to be a mouthpiece for John
Having someone working for you who cannot lose his job and is going to be the team CEO someday because he flew out of Ann Mara's uterus is an absurd situation.
They did a good job of showing how quick and tense
when they were discussing how durable Runyan has been during his career as JS was saying to up the Jets offer. Two things were striking about it; (1) I still can't believe after our last decade of injuries Ronnie Barnes has that much influence--I thought he was a figurehead at this point for his long time service; and (2) Runyan just got the kiss of death
Also, please remember when you refer to Mara as the owner, this also isn't a factual statement. He's "an" owner that was voted by the others to be President of the team. His personal stake in the team is actually substantially lower that Tisch's.
This is a fact that should be repeatedly beaten into the minds of Giants fans.
John Mara personally owns less than 5% of the Giants.
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I agree with this. Look, as an owner, Mara SHOULD make his voice heard, but what he shouldn’t do is put his thumb on the scale and prevent his personnel guys from making the moves they think are best. I haven’t seen any evidence of that.
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
Schoen: “Would you trade up for Daniels?” Daboll: “Absolutely.” But they weren’t looking for a QB.
If you have a shot at the next Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning, you explore it regardless of who your QB is, especially when your QB has finished four of the past five years on IR. It doesn't mean you're "looking for a QB." If they were looking for a QB, they would've taken a chance on the other three that went in the top 12 (or tried their luck later in the draft on the next tier of QBs).
we were trading up or taking whatever QB was left at 6 or who knew we were all in on McCarthy now are certain (based on absolutely nothing) that Daboll wants a new QB.
That they weren’t sold on McCarthy doesn’t mean they didn’t want a QB. Daboll took about half a second to respond “Absolutely” to Schoen’s suggestion of trading up for Jayden Daniels. We know they made an effort to move up for Maye. But keep deluding yourself that they really didn’t want a QB because they just love St Daniel to death.
(I've only watched this once and had to deal with background noise in the house so I need to watch it again... also again, it's important to note this was edited so we don't have a totally honest/accurate picture...)
- The earlier episodes gave me the strong impression that Schoen didn't REALLY want to bring back Barkley at the price points being discussed. However, this episode suggests they were still willing to pay him big bucks to bring him back. Would Schoen have done so at the $12.5 million APY with the guaranteed money being discussed in that one call? Sounds possible.
- However, if they did re-sign Barkley, they would not have had money for others, possibly Brian Burns and at the very least one of the two OLs.
- Odd more focus was not on Xavier. That feels like editing.
- Interesting that in an ideal world, they wanted to bring in three starters on the OL.
- Something is fishy/off with the discussions between Daboll and Schoen. At times, it sounds like a couple of casual fans talking rather than the two key decision makers having an honest discussion. I find it difficult to believe they were having such a cavalier discussion about team needs like that. Was that re-enacted for the camera or do they truly spitball so casually like that?
- Mixed feelings on Mara at this point. There is nothing wrong with him voicing his opinion. He pays the checks. But I agree with the posts above that he has to be managed somewhat (if he's reading these comments, he's probably offended by that, but that's they way it comes across). The show/edits give the strong impression (maybe intentional) that he is kept in the loop but is not calling the shots, which is good.
- Biggest take-away for me is that it is very clear that Drew Lock is an afterthought. He was not brought in to compete for the starting job. That was the most important thing this show told me.
- I understand why they didn't but I wished they focused more on the second-tier free agents, Jalen Mills, Isaiah McKenzie, Stinnie, Schlottman, Nelson, the tight ends, Jordon Phillips, etc.
- Overall, not as good as episode two, but part of that was a function of the content (free agency).
The second point. Daboll wants to move on from Daniel Jones asap. One of the reasons they didn't like McCarthy is because they didn't want "another Daniel Jones"
They aren't anything alike.
They likely saw McCarthy as a game manager type, that’s the common thread.
RE: RE: They did a good job of showing how quick and tense
Schoen: “Would you trade up for Daniels?” Daboll: “Absolutely.” But they weren’t looking for a QB.
If you have a shot at the next Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning, you explore it regardless of who your QB is, especially when your QB has finished four of the past five years on IR. It doesn't mean you're "looking for a QB." If they were looking for a QB, they would've taken a chance on the other three that went in the top 12 (or tried their luck later in the draft on the next tier of QBs).
I think it is probably accurate, but Daboll plays it close to the vest on this show, even to the point that he tried to play a song so they couldn't hear the conversation. So, I would just wait to see if there is not a joke after that teaser or some other explanation to put it in context as opposed to just taking it at face value on the teaser.
But it's comical....some here calls the owner....meddling!
I owned several businesses and yes, the owner better be knee deep in meddling!
I view Mara as a decent man....who cares for his players...past and present and concerned how fans will respond to some of their moves.
And as far "meddling"...seems very minor and controlled.
If I was Mara and thought Barkley was the Giants fans favorite player and he went to the Eagles....I would not take it so well.
If your company is successful, by all means meddle.
When it's been nothing but failure (on the field) for the better part of decade, please keep your opinions to yourself and try to find smart people to fix it.
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
100%. When Mara said “he’s our most popular player”, I wanted to put my fist through the TV. Who cares? This isn’t Coke changing the formula of its iconic soda, it’s not overpaying the most popular player on a lousy football team.
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
100%. When Mara said “he’s our most popular player”, I wanted to put my fist through the TV. Who cares? This isn’t Coke changing the formula of its iconic soda, it’s not overpaying the most popular player on a lousy football team.
He is your most popular player really only matters if you are reliant on fans as a revenue source; an NFL's team's revenue source is much more varied than ticket and jersey sales (which the Giants do well enough in to begin with). Such a stupid comment by Mara.
The Eagles have invested and developed their oline to keep them at a premium level the last decade.
They've marched out multiple different running backs and have had an above average ground attack.
Sure, Barkley will get his numbers (if he stays healthy). The real analysis the media WON'T do is would the Eagles be better with a less expensive option at RB, and using the Barkley funds somewhere else on the roster. I think the answer would be yes.
Watching this episode - is the TEAM better trading down to Singletary (whom may not even be a trade down) in addition to one of the Olinemen signed or Burns? I'd say the answer is definite yes.
RE: RE: They did a good job of showing how quick and tense
Schoen: “Would you trade up for Daniels?” Daboll: “Absolutely.” But they weren’t looking for a QB.
If you have a shot at the next Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning, you explore it regardless of who your QB is, especially when your QB has finished four of the past five years on IR. It doesn't mean you're "looking for a QB." If they were looking for a QB, they would've taken a chance on the other three that went in the top 12 (or tried their luck later in the draft on the next tier of QBs).
Come on, NO ONE sees either Daniels or Mayes as the next Mahomes or Manning. They were trying to upgrade the QB position. That they chose not to roll the dice with JJM merely means they thought he would not be enough of an upgrade over Jones.
Even Schoen’s comment if they couldn’t trade up, about being OK with taking a potential game breaking talent “and rolling it back with Daniel” hardly screams a raving endorsement. It sounds more like kicking the question down the road for another year.
is the internal discussion of what re-signing Barkley would have meant for the other signings. You can't give Barkley that money without losing out on other players. Schoen obviously said that, but it was edited out.
about how any owner operates. No one is going to buy a business and then just walk away on any big decisions. The fact that Schoen is clearly in charge here is exactly how we should want and expect things to work. The notion of an owner who doesn't ever express any opinions about the big decision if total fan fantasy.
the show did a good job of showing how waiting for news on one free agent can impact the entire free agent period for a team.
One thing I was unclear about and was not sure about the editing was that the Giants seem to be going after Devin Singletary before even they knew about Barkley--strongly suggesting to me if it was properly sequenced that they never really thought they would resign Barkley. But who knows.
My issue is that Mara does influence decisions but not in a positive
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
the show did a good job of showing how waiting for news on one free agent can impact the entire free agent period for a team.
One thing I was unclear about and was not sure about the editing was that the Giants seem to be going after Devin Singletary before even they knew about Barkley--strongly suggesting to me if it was properly sequenced that they never really thought they would resign Barkley. But who knows.
Glad you mentioned this.... it's also pretty clear that Daboll really likes Singletary (teaser continues to suggest to me too that Daboll loves Nabers).
Is played up for the audience. There are going to me MANY discussions which do not get aired. The editors are going to select the few which focus on a decision that could go either way, and that's what we'll see.
RE: My issue is that Mara does influence decisions but not in a positive
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
Could be editing, but yes, he's coming across as a whiny grandparent who comes wandering into the room and everyone is on their best behavior until he waddles off.
we were trading up or taking whatever QB was left at 6 or who knew we were all in on McCarthy now are certain (based on absolutely nothing) that Daboll wants a new QB.
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
Could be editing, but yes, he's coming across as a whiny grandparent who comes wandering into the room and everyone is on their best behavior until he waddles off.
Great analogy. That's exactly what it's like.
Anyone who's ever worked for a closely held firm, or reported to an active board, is familiar with the concept.
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
But that's why Schoen is making the decisions. I mean, we know what happened, and clearly it was Schoen, not Mara who is calling the shots.
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
100%. When Mara said “he’s our most popular player”, I wanted to put my fist through the TV. Who cares? This isn’t Coke changing the formula of its iconic soda, it’s not overpaying the most popular player on a lousy football team.
I posted earlier on the thread that Tim lurks around key decision and makes the same type of comments, "What's our identity going to be now?" (if they lose SB).
Mara is OLD but Tim is the next problem on the horizon.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
As promised, my thoughts on last night:
• The anniversary dinner was delightful.
• Saquon was telling the truth. The Giants never made an offer and his agent did give them a chance to match. I mentioned weeks ago about how reality TV shows are masters of the overly juicy preview clip. (That said next week's tease seemed unequivocal in Daboll's support of trading up for Daniels).
• Clear how rampant tampering is when Berry was able to give Schoen a highly accurate market price before the negotiating window opened.
• Those were some uneasy conversations between Mara and Schoen. Lot of nervous laughter from Schoen. I saw the debate yesterday about the Saquon decision putting Schoen on the hot seat. It's obviously not that simple. But it would be a big log on the fire if Saquon tears it up in Philly and the Giants offense stinks without him.
I think Schoen handled the Saquon situation correctly. But that doesn't mean he'll be immune from scrutiny, especially from his skeptical boss, if he's not validated by results. I'm sure Schoen really wishes that text about Saquon going to the Bears was accurate.
• Obvious but Brian Burns really needs to deliver. Point got driven home about how much one move impacts others. They couldn't shop the top of the OL market (Hunt got $20M/year) or really make any other defensive additions in FA after committing to Burns.
Not a surprise, but Bowen confirmed Burns will play a "shit ton" of snaps. Interesting that Daboll asked about his sack production considering how much coaches tend to downplay the stat.
• Disappointed that we didn't get to see much of the Burns trade negotiations. We went from preliminary talks at the Senior Bowl/combine to finalizing very different details at the start of FA.
• Also disappointed by the lack of insight into McKinney's departure. He doesn't have Saquon's star power but his contract is worth $30M more. Would have liked to get some sense on what, if anything, the Giants even offered.
• Daboll emphasized the need for interior OL. Very little talk of Neal positively or negatively. Rossetti mentioned Eluemunor as the possible starting RT or LG. When Schoen listed the young core OL if they signed Runyan, he mentioned Thomas and JMS but not Neal.
Adding a third year for Runyan without upping the guarantees from the Jets' two-year offer is a win for the Giants. That additional year essentially serves as a team option.
Eluemunor negotiating was interesting, with him wanting a two-year deal and the team then wanting no guarantees in Year 2. They can get out pretty painlessly if they want to move on after this season.
• Surprised they seemed confident in re-signing Tyrod. I got the sense that he was ready to move on after how last season unfolded.
• This episode felt more like an edited TV show. I'm sure they had more targets than the handful featured. And it would have been more interesting to get to watch Abrams/Triggs negotiate rather than hear about it after, but I get why there would be issues with getting to show that.
RE: RE: My issue is that Mara does influence decisions but not in a positive
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
But that's why Schoen is making the decisions. I mean, we know what happened, and clearly it was Schoen, not Mara who is calling the shots.
This is one decision. What about Eli? What about Jones and Barkley the season before. If I had to guess, Mara was a big reason why they did what they did. Now, I am sure Schoen saw what happened last year and is now trying to correct it. I think Mara realizes that it was the wrong move but still wants Barkley. That is why it looks the way it does now. This is only a snapshot of what goes on but for those that think Mara is the common theme of all these bad regimes, it is only supporting their case.
as I said last night. He didn't get his way. That's a good sign.
This should be the main take away. The expectations that the owner has no discussions about big team decisions is fan fantasy. Clearly Schoen is calling the shots. That's the obvious takeway, but don't expect people to take in the obvious when it counters their preconceptions.
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
But that's why Schoen is making the decisions. I mean, we know what happened, and clearly it was Schoen, not Mara who is calling the shots.
This is one decision. What about Eli? What about Jones and Barkley the season before. If I had to guess, Mara was a big reason why they did what they did. Now, I am sure Schoen saw what happened last year and is now trying to correct it. I think Mara realizes that it was the wrong move but still wants Barkley. That is why it looks the way it does now. This is only a snapshot of what goes on but for those that think Mara is the common theme of all these bad regimes, it is only supporting their case.
So basically, you have your views, and when shown to be wrong, you refuse to adjust your thinking. Gettleman was a puppet. He probably did whatever Mara wanted. But he's not GM anymore, and for good reason.
RE: My issue is that Mara does influence decisions but not in a positive
way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
Anytime your boss says "I couldn't sleep if he went to a division rival" it effects how you operate. Now it might not make you make the decision, but it makes you think. In fact, Schoen knew this and asked Ed Berry to give him the heads up.
Every tidbit of information for two years has told them the exact same thing, including the 84 million guaranteed.
I owned several businesses and yes, the owner better be knee deep in meddling!
I view Mara as a decent man....who cares for his players...past and present and concerned how fans will respond to some of their moves.
And as far "meddling"...seems very minor and controlled.
If I was Mara and thought Barkley was the Giants fans favorite player and he went to the Eagles....I would not take it so well.
- Despite Saquon saying "we never offered him a contract" there was clearly an intent to resign him within the organization and truth be told, they did right by him by letting him explore
- "Meddling Mara" is very much a thing. So far this series has confirmed him to be exactly what I thought he was. A passive aggressive meddler who's words say one thing, but actions say another
- Something tells me 18 months ago Schoen would let himself be influenced by the Meddling but has gotten to a point where he realizes he needs to ignore it
- I wouldn't trust having Tim McDonnell around me at all if I were Schoen, he seems to be a mouthpiece for John
- Very quick and innocuous comment about Eleumunor that "he could play RT or G", telling in regards to long term plans for Neal
- All FA seemed to costs exactly $1mil more than they guessed they would, seemed a little staged
- Daboll was clearly conscious he was on camera during the scene talking about FA, did not seem comfortable talking while being filmed. HBO must have paid up for music rights on that one...
DG: Who are we negotiating against?
KA: As far as I can tell, nobody.
DG: OK, up the offer to $70M.
I owned several businesses and yes, the owner better be knee deep in meddling!
I view Mara as a decent man....who cares for his players...past and present and concerned how fans will respond to some of their moves.
And as far "meddling"...seems very minor and controlled.
If I was Mara and thought Barkley was the Giants fans favorite player and he went to the Eagles....I would not take it so well.
I'm going to disagree here. I also come from a small business background before going into the corporate world and basically starting businesses within business.
While John has a right to convey his feelings, when you're in a production orientated business you have to realize this may be counterproductive to the overall goal. Given the results since 2012, its hard to argue he's been effective as an owner...
Also keep in mind that they're also paying Joe Schoen millions of dollars a year. Its not good business to spend that money on a high level employee and push to influence their decisions just to placate your own emotions.
Also, please remember when you refer to Mara as the owner, this also isn't a factual statement. He's "an" owner that was voted by the others to be President of the team. His personal stake in the team is actually substantially lower that Tisch's.
- "Meddling Mara" is very much a thing. So far this series has confirmed him to be exactly what I thought he was. A passive aggressive meddler who's words say one thing, but actions say another
- Something tells me 18 months ago Schoen would let himself be influenced by the Meddling but has gotten to a point where he realizes he needs to ignore it
- I wouldn't trust having Tim McDonnell around me at all if I were Schoen, he seems to be a mouthpiece for John
Having someone working for you who cannot lose his job and is going to be the team CEO someday because he flew out of Ann Mara's uterus is an absurd situation.
Regarding Eluemunor, we all knew he was signed so he could move to RT if Neal struggled, I’d be surprised if the FO wasn’t thinking the same thing.
Looking forward to next week. Schoen: “Would you trade up for Daniels?” Daboll: “Absolutely.” But they weren’t looking for a QB.
This is a fact that should be repeatedly beaten into the minds of Giants fans.
John Mara personally owns less than 5% of the Giants.
He is the president and CEO of a company.
I agree with this. Look, as an owner, Mara SHOULD make his voice heard, but what he shouldn’t do is put his thumb on the scale and prevent his personnel guys from making the moves they think are best. I haven’t seen any evidence of that.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
That they weren’t sold on McCarthy doesn’t mean they didn’t want a QB. Daboll took about half a second to respond “Absolutely” to Schoen’s suggestion of trading up for Jayden Daniels. We know they made an effort to move up for Maye. But keep deluding yourself that they really didn’t want a QB because they just love St Daniel to death.
- The earlier episodes gave me the strong impression that Schoen didn't REALLY want to bring back Barkley at the price points being discussed. However, this episode suggests they were still willing to pay him big bucks to bring him back. Would Schoen have done so at the $12.5 million APY with the guaranteed money being discussed in that one call? Sounds possible.
- However, if they did re-sign Barkley, they would not have had money for others, possibly Brian Burns and at the very least one of the two OLs.
- Odd more focus was not on Xavier. That feels like editing.
- Interesting that in an ideal world, they wanted to bring in three starters on the OL.
- Something is fishy/off with the discussions between Daboll and Schoen. At times, it sounds like a couple of casual fans talking rather than the two key decision makers having an honest discussion. I find it difficult to believe they were having such a cavalier discussion about team needs like that. Was that re-enacted for the camera or do they truly spitball so casually like that?
- Mixed feelings on Mara at this point. There is nothing wrong with him voicing his opinion. He pays the checks. But I agree with the posts above that he has to be managed somewhat (if he's reading these comments, he's probably offended by that, but that's they way it comes across). The show/edits give the strong impression (maybe intentional) that he is kept in the loop but is not calling the shots, which is good.
- Biggest take-away for me is that it is very clear that Drew Lock is an afterthought. He was not brought in to compete for the starting job. That was the most important thing this show told me.
- I understand why they didn't but I wished they focused more on the second-tier free agents, Jalen Mills, Isaiah McKenzie, Stinnie, Schlottman, Nelson, the tight ends, Jordon Phillips, etc.
- Overall, not as good as episode two, but part of that was a function of the content (free agency).
Quote:
The second point. Daboll wants to move on from Daniel Jones asap. One of the reasons they didn't like McCarthy is because they didn't want "another Daniel Jones"
They aren't anything alike.
They likely saw McCarthy as a game manager type, that’s the common thread.
Quote:
Schoen: “Would you trade up for Daniels?” Daboll: “Absolutely.” But they weren’t looking for a QB.
If you have a shot at the next Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning, you explore it regardless of who your QB is, especially when your QB has finished four of the past five years on IR. It doesn't mean you're "looking for a QB." If they were looking for a QB, they would've taken a chance on the other three that went in the top 12 (or tried their luck later in the draft on the next tier of QBs).
I think it is probably accurate, but Daboll plays it close to the vest on this show, even to the point that he tried to play a song so they couldn't hear the conversation. So, I would just wait to see if there is not a joke after that teaser or some other explanation to put it in context as opposed to just taking it at face value on the teaser.
I owned several businesses and yes, the owner better be knee deep in meddling!
I view Mara as a decent man....who cares for his players...past and present and concerned how fans will respond to some of their moves.
And as far "meddling"...seems very minor and controlled.
If I was Mara and thought Barkley was the Giants fans favorite player and he went to the Eagles....I would not take it so well.
If your company is successful, by all means meddle.
When it's been nothing but failure (on the field) for the better part of decade, please keep your opinions to yourself and try to find smart people to fix it.
If I was Mara and thought Barkley was the Giants fans favorite player and he went to the Eagles....I would not take it so well.
Mara is more focused on fan perception than winning games.
Quote:
Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
100%. When Mara said “he’s our most popular player”, I wanted to put my fist through the TV. Who cares? This isn’t Coke changing the formula of its iconic soda, it’s not overpaying the most popular player on a lousy football team.
Quote:
In comment 16554593 ryanmkeane said:
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Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
100%. When Mara said “he’s our most popular player”, I wanted to put my fist through the TV. Who cares? This isn’t Coke changing the formula of its iconic soda, it’s not overpaying the most popular player on a lousy football team.
He is your most popular player really only matters if you are reliant on fans as a revenue source; an NFL's team's revenue source is much more varied than ticket and jersey sales (which the Giants do well enough in to begin with). Such a stupid comment by Mara.
They've marched out multiple different running backs and have had an above average ground attack.
Sure, Barkley will get his numbers (if he stays healthy). The real analysis the media WON'T do is would the Eagles be better with a less expensive option at RB, and using the Barkley funds somewhere else on the roster. I think the answer would be yes.
Watching this episode - is the TEAM better trading down to Singletary (whom may not even be a trade down) in addition to one of the Olinemen signed or Burns? I'd say the answer is definite yes.
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Schoen: “Would you trade up for Daniels?” Daboll: “Absolutely.” But they weren’t looking for a QB.
If you have a shot at the next Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning, you explore it regardless of who your QB is, especially when your QB has finished four of the past five years on IR. It doesn't mean you're "looking for a QB." If they were looking for a QB, they would've taken a chance on the other three that went in the top 12 (or tried their luck later in the draft on the next tier of QBs).
Come on, NO ONE sees either Daniels or Mayes as the next Mahomes or Manning. They were trying to upgrade the QB position. That they chose not to roll the dice with JJM merely means they thought he would not be enough of an upgrade over Jones.
Even Schoen’s comment if they couldn’t trade up, about being OK with taking a potential game breaking talent “and rolling it back with Daniel” hardly screams a raving endorsement. It sounds more like kicking the question down the road for another year.
One thing I was unclear about and was not sure about the editing was that the Giants seem to be going after Devin Singletary before even they knew about Barkley--strongly suggesting to me if it was properly sequenced that they never really thought they would resign Barkley. But who knows.
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the show did a good job of showing how waiting for news on one free agent can impact the entire free agent period for a team.
One thing I was unclear about and was not sure about the editing was that the Giants seem to be going after Devin Singletary before even they knew about Barkley--strongly suggesting to me if it was properly sequenced that they never really thought they would resign Barkley. But who knows.
Glad you mentioned this.... it's also pretty clear that Daboll really likes Singletary (teaser continues to suggest to me too that Daboll loves Nabers).
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Abrams cooking up the Golladay deal is a sight I don't need to witness.
DG: Who are we negotiating against?
KA: As far as I can tell, nobody.
DG: OK, up the offer to $70M.
LMAO. That just gave me a good laugh.
Could be editing, but yes, he's coming across as a whiny grandparent who comes wandering into the room and everyone is on their best behavior until he waddles off.
Yup. It's an ink-blot test.
It does make me wonder, however, if this was not the case in 2023 offseason.
Costy16 : 9:49 am : link : reply
In comment 16554590 Section331 said:
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In comment 16554498 christian said:
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Abrams cooking up the Golladay deal is a sight I don't need to witness.
DG: Who are we negotiating against?
KA: As far as I can tell, nobody.
DG: OK, up the offer to $70M.
LMAO. That just gave me a good laugh.
He's got a one year prove it deal on the table for 8 million bucks.
DG - Hold my beer....
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way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
Could be editing, but yes, he's coming across as a whiny grandparent who comes wandering into the room and everyone is on their best behavior until he waddles off.
Great analogy. That's exactly what it's like.
Anyone who's ever worked for a closely held firm, or reported to an active board, is familiar with the concept.
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In comment 16554593 ryanmkeane said:
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Everyone piling on Mara but he isn't exactly making any decisions here. He's voicing some opinions here and there in these discussions but he's basically letting Schoen handle everything. I don't blame him for being nervous about losing Barkley. He's the owner of the team.
I wish his concerns were more about winning than retaining a popular player for a significant cap number. Like, the team needs are obvious. He looked as if this issue was agony for him.
100%. When Mara said “he’s our most popular player”, I wanted to put my fist through the TV. Who cares? This isn’t Coke changing the formula of its iconic soda, it’s not overpaying the most popular player on a lousy football team.
I posted earlier on the thread that Tim lurks around key decision and makes the same type of comments, "What's our identity going to be now?" (if they lose SB).
Mara is OLD but Tim is the next problem on the horizon.
LOL
@DDuggan21
As promised, my thoughts on last night:
• The anniversary dinner was delightful.
• Saquon was telling the truth. The Giants never made an offer and his agent did give them a chance to match. I mentioned weeks ago about how reality TV shows are masters of the overly juicy preview clip. (That said next week's tease seemed unequivocal in Daboll's support of trading up for Daniels).
• Clear how rampant tampering is when Berry was able to give Schoen a highly accurate market price before the negotiating window opened.
• Those were some uneasy conversations between Mara and Schoen. Lot of nervous laughter from Schoen. I saw the debate yesterday about the Saquon decision putting Schoen on the hot seat. It's obviously not that simple. But it would be a big log on the fire if Saquon tears it up in Philly and the Giants offense stinks without him.
I think Schoen handled the Saquon situation correctly. But that doesn't mean he'll be immune from scrutiny, especially from his skeptical boss, if he's not validated by results. I'm sure Schoen really wishes that text about Saquon going to the Bears was accurate.
• Obvious but Brian Burns really needs to deliver. Point got driven home about how much one move impacts others. They couldn't shop the top of the OL market (Hunt got $20M/year) or really make any other defensive additions in FA after committing to Burns.
Not a surprise, but Bowen confirmed Burns will play a "shit ton" of snaps. Interesting that Daboll asked about his sack production considering how much coaches tend to downplay the stat.
• Disappointed that we didn't get to see much of the Burns trade negotiations. We went from preliminary talks at the Senior Bowl/combine to finalizing very different details at the start of FA.
• Also disappointed by the lack of insight into McKinney's departure. He doesn't have Saquon's star power but his contract is worth $30M more. Would have liked to get some sense on what, if anything, the Giants even offered.
• Daboll emphasized the need for interior OL. Very little talk of Neal positively or negatively. Rossetti mentioned Eluemunor as the possible starting RT or LG. When Schoen listed the young core OL if they signed Runyan, he mentioned Thomas and JMS but not Neal.
Adding a third year for Runyan without upping the guarantees from the Jets' two-year offer is a win for the Giants. That additional year essentially serves as a team option.
Eluemunor negotiating was interesting, with him wanting a two-year deal and the team then wanting no guarantees in Year 2. They can get out pretty painlessly if they want to move on after this season.
• Surprised they seemed confident in re-signing Tyrod. I got the sense that he was ready to move on after how last season unfolded.
• This episode felt more like an edited TV show. I'm sure they had more targets than the handful featured. And it would have been more interesting to get to watch Abrams/Triggs negotiate rather than hear about it after, but I get why there would be issues with getting to show that.
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way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
But that's why Schoen is making the decisions. I mean, we know what happened, and clearly it was Schoen, not Mara who is calling the shots.
This is one decision. What about Eli? What about Jones and Barkley the season before. If I had to guess, Mara was a big reason why they did what they did. Now, I am sure Schoen saw what happened last year and is now trying to correct it. I think Mara realizes that it was the wrong move but still wants Barkley. That is why it looks the way it does now. This is only a snapshot of what goes on but for those that think Mara is the common theme of all these bad regimes, it is only supporting their case.
This should be the main take away. The expectations that the owner has no discussions about big team decisions is fan fantasy. Clearly Schoen is calling the shots. That's the obvious takeway, but don't expect people to take in the obvious when it counters their preconceptions.
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In comment 16554628 robbieballs2003 said:
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way. There is nothing wrong with an owner/CEO being involved in decision making or at least be made aware. The issue seems to be that he is forming opinions based on feelings and not data or a vision of the team. It seems like more whining than having a productive conversation or argument.
But that's why Schoen is making the decisions. I mean, we know what happened, and clearly it was Schoen, not Mara who is calling the shots.
This is one decision. What about Eli? What about Jones and Barkley the season before. If I had to guess, Mara was a big reason why they did what they did. Now, I am sure Schoen saw what happened last year and is now trying to correct it. I think Mara realizes that it was the wrong move but still wants Barkley. That is why it looks the way it does now. This is only a snapshot of what goes on but for those that think Mara is the common theme of all these bad regimes, it is only supporting their case.
So basically, you have your views, and when shown to be wrong, you refuse to adjust your thinking. Gettleman was a puppet. He probably did whatever Mara wanted. But he's not GM anymore, and for good reason.
Anytime your boss says "I couldn't sleep if he went to a division rival" it effects how you operate. Now it might not make you make the decision, but it makes you think. In fact, Schoen knew this and asked Ed Berry to give him the heads up.