Dunleavy can't move on from Saquon... bizarre take in my opinion... Wishing Saquon all the best. If how Saquon plays with the Eagles impacts Mara's opinion of Schoen then Mara is really is as bad as some say he is...
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
I dont know what #HardKnocks will show tonight but my reporting then and now …
Joe Schoen was told exactly what numbers would keep Saquon Barkley with #Giants. He relayed them to others. John Mara wanted to pay it, especially when he heard it was the #Eagles. Joe did not think it was the right use of resources .
John let Joe make the decision (I keep dispelling the popular fan notion that John big-foots personnel decisions).
No offer was made to Saquon after July 2023. The #Giants100 best offer (in July 2023) included about $22M GTD. Philly paid $26M.
The decision to let Saquon go to Eagles — really, to tag Saquon and not a get deal done in 2023 — and how he performs this year will go a long way in determining how hot Schoen’s seat gets.
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
Every back they have had who runs behind that OL does well.
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
I couldn't agree more, the draft pick at #2 of Barkley set this franchise back 5 years. He is a good back, but a lot of my memories of him are missing a block, dropping a ball or dancing in the backfield. Good luck to him in Philly, I'm sure he will have a great season this year.
Long term this is the right move. I 100% expect Barkley to have a good season based on the Eagles OL, it doesn't mean he'd have it here and I hope Mara is smart enough to realize that.
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
Eric, I'm about to turn 40...what I didn't appreciate with the 2007 team was how F**** good the offensive line was. McKenzei, Snee, O'Hara, Seubert, and Diehl... We have spent 15 years trying to replace these guys with little to no success besides Andrew Thomas. On the Board during 2007 did posters realize how good that Oline was at the time?
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
he's the franchise leader in career rushing yards per game, 6th in tds, and done it behind some of the worst lines in team history. that's a weird definition of mediocrity.
further if he's mediocre, what less than mediocre adjective describes singletary and why is that worth applauding? the league valued him half of barkley so is he half-mediocre?
as hung up as everyone is on barkley, the validation of their decision has very little to do with him and a lot more to do with whether or not the alternative ways schoen spent money lead to more wins.
Dunleavy takes it to another level. He's a Saquon fanboy masquerading as a beat writer and has been for years.
I'd sooner read Pat Leonard than Ryan Dunleavy. I'd rather read shampoo labels than read Ryan Dunleavy.
that hasnt been reported anywhere i've seen. someone reposted the daboll comments from the trade deadline last week in a thread where he had said to the press he told saquon they werent trading him a couple weeks before the deadline.
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fans really have become accustomed to mediocrity (probably the same with the beat writers).
Dunleavy takes it to another level. He's a Saquon fanboy masquerading as a beat writer and has been for years.
I'd sooner read Pat Leonard than Ryan Dunleavy. I'd rather read shampoo labels than read Ryan Dunleavy.
Gatorade, I've read that about Dunleavy from other posters, but didn't really believe it until I ready his tweet this morning
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fans really have become accustomed to mediocrity (probably the same with the beat writers).
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
he's the franchise leader in career rushing yards per game, 6th in tds, and done it behind some of the worst lines in team history. that's a weird definition of mediocrity.
further if he's mediocre, what less than mediocre adjective describes singletary and why is that worth applauding? the league valued him half of barkley so is he half-mediocre?
as hung up as everyone is on barkley, the validation of their decision has very little to do with him and a lot more to do with whether or not the alternative ways schoen spent money lead to more wins.
His stats are inflated by his historically stellar rookie season. But it was ONE season.
I'd take Barber, Hampton, Morris, Bradshaw, Jacobs over him. No joke. No sour grapes. Consistently better players.
I'm not old enough for Gifford and Ron Johnson but you have to consider them ahead of him too.
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fans really have become accustomed to mediocrity (probably the same with the beat writers).
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
Eric, I'm about to turn 40...what I didn't appreciate with the 2007 team was how F**** good the offensive line was. McKenzei, Snee, O'Hara, Seubert, and Diehl... We have spent 15 years trying to replace these guys with little to no success besides Andrew Thomas. On the Board during 2007 did posters realize how good that Oline was at the time?
My sense is we didn't really appreciate that OL until the following season - 2008 - when we had a three running backs running for big yards.
Gatorade, I've read that about Dunleavy from other posters, but didn't really believe it until I ready his tweet this morning
the only reporter who has broken more actual factual news about the nyg than dunleavy in the last several years is garafolo, and garafolo has often backed up most of the reporting dunleavy has had that others havent. reread most of the OP, the first 3 sentences are him reporting fact based things he's saying happened and has reported since last July (no opinions). most already confirmed by Hk.
the only opinion in that tweet is the last sentence and it's indifferent. i dont agree with it bc i think the only thing that influences seat temp is wins and losses bc it's possible to disagree with someone's opinion without dismissing their track record of accurate reporting.
Say it again louder, for those in the back of the room
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
One thing about great players is that their numbers are usually consistent throughout their careers. Injuries killed Saquons career and the risk out weighs the potential reward. Saquons last 3 years have been 3.7 YPC, 4.4 YPC and 3.9 YPC. I believe that 4.4 is going to be the tops for him and thats probably about it. Saquon still has the burst on occasion but its not consistent. I also think the Philly OL is hitting the wall and it wont be nearly as good as it has been. Age and retirements are catching up with them.
This was a solid business move by Schoen.
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Gatorade, I've read that about Dunleavy from other posters, but didn't really believe it until I ready his tweet this morning
the only reporter who has broken more actual factual news about the nyg than dunleavy in the last several years is garafolo, and garafolo has often backed up most of the reporting dunleavy has had that others havent. reread most of the OP, the first 3 sentences are him reporting fact based things he's saying happened and has reported since last July (no opinions). most already confirmed by Hk.
the only opinion in that tweet is the last sentence and it's indifferent. i dont agree with it bc i think the only thing that influences seat temp is wins and losses bc it's possible to disagree with someone's opinion without dismissing their track record of accurate reporting.
He also has a very long track record of glazing Saquon.
Both things can be true.
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In comment 16554111 Eric from BBI said:
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fans really have become accustomed to mediocrity (probably the same with the beat writers).
Again, Saquon has had two seasons that really stand out. His rookie season and 2022. But somehow, there is a group of people out there who think he was one of the best backs in franchise history. He wasn't. He's not even in my top 5.
But do the math. If you are 25 years old, you were 12 the last time the Giants were in a Super Bowl. Some of these fans have no idea.
he's the franchise leader in career rushing yards per game, 6th in tds, and done it behind some of the worst lines in team history. that's a weird definition of mediocrity.
further if he's mediocre, what less than mediocre adjective describes singletary and why is that worth applauding? the league valued him half of barkley so is he half-mediocre?
as hung up as everyone is on barkley, the validation of their decision has very little to do with him and a lot more to do with whether or not the alternative ways schoen spent money lead to more wins.
His stats are inflated by his historically stellar rookie season. But it was ONE season.
I'd take Barber, Hampton, Morris, Bradshaw, Jacobs over him. No joke. No sour grapes. Consistently better players.
I'm not old enough for Gifford and Ron Johnson but you have to consider them ahead of him too.
His stats are inflated by his historically stellar rookie season. But it was ONE season.
I'd take Barber, Hampton, Morris, Bradshaw, Jacobs over him. No joke. No sour grapes. Consistently better players.
I'm not old enough for Gifford and Ron Johnson but you have to consider them ahead of him too.
Last year was one his worst years and behind the worst OL i've witnessed of any team in the modern era he still hit his career average ypg. when he played they were competitive.
jacobs only once started more than 13 games and only once twice went just barely over 1k yards. we know why we loved him and bradshaw, and it's because they played on winning teams.
that is the key - if the team wins nothing else matters - just as it didnt matter that the 07-08 RBs weren't as good as Tiki was. if the team wins it's very possible singletary becomes a guy we romanticize similarly but in all likelihood he will still be a lesser player than barkley was just as jacobs/bradshaw werent tiki.
that is a time capsule of why the RB position has become valued the way it is but giant fans seem to want to believe now that getting rid of barkley is/was a guaranteed win before we know if they got the replacement strategy right. that remains to be seen doesnt it? we were all pretty quick to think engram was a net negative too (i was guilty of that) and he's gone on to have his 2 best years in jax. sometimes players look worse because their surroundings drag them down, and you cant have worse surroundings than the nyg org in the last decade.
There's no evidence for that. Schoen was asked at the bye press conference why he didn't make Barkley available at the deadline. He said he never considered it because of Barkley's importance to the offense.
You can believe that or not, but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Saquon was never a particularly instinctive runner. Once he lost his break-away speed and explosion, he became ordinary.
Worse, he always has been an injury prone back. Add to that the late-game brain farts that started appearing two years ago.
If I want to win a game, I'm going with Rodney Hampton, Joe Morris, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Brandon Jacobs before I hand off to Barkley.
However, it was only ONE season. His 2022 season was damn good too (but even in that season his post-bye and pre-playoff game performance wasn't good). In other words, it was half a stellar season.
i think there's a lot of overlap with giant fans who were also convinced last year barkley was a moron for turning down money he'd never get back. today he's up $14m guaranteed and in an organization that's been much more successful the last decade. nobody knows who is right yet but i agree with schoen that the past is the best predictor, and i think past has generally been on the side of barkley's decisions more than nygs.
Saquon was never a particularly instinctive runner. Once he lost his break-away speed and explosion, he became ordinary.
Worse, he always has been an injury prone back. Add to that the late-game brain farts that started appearing two years ago.
If I want to win a game, I'm going with Rodney Hampton, Joe Morris, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Brandon Jacobs before I hand off to Barkley.
that's fine i agree with a chunk of your opinions re barkley. he has lost a half step post-injuries. i think he's generally gotten better between the tackles though, and in the last couple years he's been very good in pass pro. he's also always been very good with ball security (historically a weakness of singletary's that's prevented him from getting heavier workloads).
choices are usually between non-ideal options not ideal ones, and i think that was the case here with either direction justifiable. i just dont have a ton of confidence in the process we've seen from schoen because it has appeared wishy washy dating back to last year. knowing now how he felt about him from HK, i think he clearly should have had the foresight to trade him at the deadline, which may have brought back a day 2 pick they could have used in the draft to add someone to not make the offense so dependent on singletary. who is 5'7 203 pounds 27 years old never eclipsed 900 yards let alone 1k and cherry on top even had more carries in college than saquon.
If that were true there wouldn't be two or three threads here pretty much every other day that get plenty of posts. There are three threads just today. And I suspect there will be Barkley comments on the HK thread once the episode airs. There is definitely a fixation here with Barkley and his situation.
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His stats are inflated by his historically stellar rookie season. But it was ONE season.
I'd take Barber, Hampton, Morris, Bradshaw, Jacobs over him. No joke. No sour grapes. Consistently better players.
I'm not old enough for Gifford and Ron Johnson but you have to consider them ahead of him too.
Last year was one his worst years and behind the worst OL i've witnessed of any team in the modern era he still hit his career average ypg. when he played they were competitive.
jacobs only once started more than 13 games and only once twice went just barely over 1k yards. we know why we loved him and bradshaw, and it's because they played on winning teams.
that is the key - if the team wins nothing else matters - just as it didnt matter that the 07-08 RBs weren't as good as Tiki was. if the team wins it's very possible singletary becomes a guy we romanticize similarly but in all likelihood he will still be a lesser player than barkley was just as jacobs/bradshaw werent tiki.
that is a time capsule of why the RB position has become valued the way it is but giant fans seem to want to believe now that getting rid of barkley is/was a guaranteed win before we know if they got the replacement strategy right. that remains to be seen doesnt it? we were all pretty quick to think engram was a net negative too (i was guilty of that) and he's gone on to have his 2 best years in jax. sometimes players look worse because their surroundings drag them down, and you cant have worse surroundings than the nyg org in the last decade.
Sure, the winning has a lot to do with how fans feel about Jacobs and Bradshaw. And it’s because they were enormous reasons for those winning seasons. Those guys played with a fire and a passion that is that resonated throughout the organization and it’s why you using stats is laughable. I’d take Jacobs and Bradshaw on my team 1000 times out of a 1000 over Barkley. We knew when those guys got the ball in critical moments that they’d run through a brick wall to get the job done. And they were tremendous blockers in the pass game. Bradshaw was actually terrible at it when he came into the league but turned himself into one of the better blocking RBs in the league. And neither one of them made top 5 RB pay, which is also an important piece to this equation
It would have been a lot of fun to watch him and see what he could've done on a better team in a better role. Definitely the right move to let him go - he's nowhere near the same guy anymore. I'm shocked that Philly signed him. Maybe they see something that we didn't but he sure looks like a shadow of his former self.
This ^
The issue is what is good or bad for the Giants not what is good or bad for other teams
Saquon was never a particularly instinctive runner. Once he lost his break-away speed and explosion, he became ordinary.
Worse, he always has been an injury prone back. Add to that the late-game brain farts that started appearing two years ago.
If I want to win a game, I'm going with Rodney Hampton, Joe Morris, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Brandon Jacobs before I hand off to Barkley.
100%....
We need to invest in the OL, defense, and WR, and average RB is all we need right now. Also I think the Eagles did the right thing. They are a dynamic player away from winning the SB, and Barkley may just be it
I get your point, but I think you are doing Sanders a disservice. Before Detroit drafted him in 1989, Detroit had been to the playoffs twice in the previous 18 years.
After Sanders was drafted, they went to the playoffs 5 of the 10 years that he was there, including winning their first playoff game since 1957. So I would definitely say that Barry Sanders changed the trajectory of his team.
Failing that, he then should have traded Saquon at the trade deadline last season
The only time a 3 yr deal with Barkley should have been considered was after the 2022 season and the simple fact is that he received more money a year later than we offered in 2022 and as a result we choose to sign Jones rather than tag him
[quote] In comment 16554107 Chris in Philly said:
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is irrelevant. Schoen made the right choice to let him go.
This ^
The issue is what is good or bad for the Giants not what is good or bad for other teams [/quot
I agree with this and agree with letting him walk. But if he rips it up this year and definitely next season, Schoen is going to catch shit for it from Mara and the media/fans.
That's just how things work. Schoen has a lot riding on how the offense and Jones performs this year. I'm not sure he survives a disastrous season and bad offense...
Don't see Tische in there.