I'll tread lightly on why Barkley was a sacred cow, but Leonard Williams, a better and more valuable player was not. It doesn't pass the intellectual threshold, the emotional criteria is best debated by more clairvoyant BBIers.
What I wish had happened is the Giants traded Barkley out of the division for an outcome better than the contribution to a 4th round 2025 compensatory pick.
I think a 3rd round common pick in the low 90s would have been fair.
And I think the delta in value between a low 90s pick in 2024 and presumed pick in the 130s in 2025, would have been worth it.
You don't need to tread lightly (on my account)
But it seems like fact (not opinion) that trading Barkley would have been a much bigger deal. No?
I think if Schoen handled the optics the same way he did Williams, he would have looked very smart.
"We appreciate everything Saquon has done on and off the field as a Giant. We wanted to give him the opportunity to go to an organization in Baltimore we have a lot of respect for. Obviously Baltimore is in a little different position than us in terms of the standings, and we felt this was the right move to help get us to a place where they are very soon."
I think if Schoen handled the optics the same way he did Williams, he would have looked very smart.
"We appreciate everything Saquon has done on and off the field as a Giant. We wanted to give him the opportunity to go to an organization in Baltimore we have a lot of respect for. Obviously Baltimore is in a little different position than us in terms of the standings, and we felt this was the right move to help get us to a place where they are very soon."
And all the world knew he was going to hit FA in couple months and could be had without giving any picks.
We're talking a 5th rounder.
There is something to that...to a degree.
However, playoff bound teams could have seen Barkley as a good short term rental and another weapon for their offense.
Baltimore, Buffalo, Saints, Colts come to mind...
Correct. It's possible, yes. We just don't know that that's the case. Remember, high profile FAs hit the market every year, many of them, similarly, from teams who know they aren't winning a SB that season. Yet there aren't very many of these types of trades. Not zero, but not a lot. This leads me to believe that teams aren't as willing to trade away high round picks than many people seem to believe.
I don't think anyone is of the opinion Barkley was going to net a 1st or 2nd round pick. But a handful of 2nd and 3rd round picks were swapped by contenders and shoppers at the deadline. Rasul Douglas, Leonard Williams,
Chase Young, and Montez Sweat, we're all apart of traded that included 2s or 3s (or so re: Douglas).
A player having to learn plays on a new team is not a serious argument against a trade prospect. There were 9 games + the playoffs left.
I don't think anyone is of the opinion Barkley was going to net a 1st or 2nd round pick. But a handful of 2nd and 3rd round picks were swapped by contenders and shoppers at the deadline. Rasul Douglas, Leonard Williams,
Chase Young, and Montez Sweat, we're all apart of traded that included 2s or 3s (or so re: Douglas).
A player having to learn plays on a new team is not a serious argument against a trade prospect. There were 9 games + the playoffs left.
Given Barkley injuries in 2023 and the devaluation of RB position, I'd say 4th at best
All differences in scenarios aside, I think the demand for Barkley exceeded conventional estimates. The Eagles, who know him well and have manufactured backs like widgets, gave him a strong commitment. That fact alone supports the idea there was a market for him.
We would have been spared the fiction that Barkley was a top-shelf influential player. That alone would have been worth trading him years ago.
To see John Mara hem and haw about trading a "popular" player... watching Hard Knocks is like watching an organizational autopsy. "Ah, so that's why they've been one of the worst teams of the past decade..."
Tag kills our leverage… it’s guaranteed $$$… what if every offer comes with a caveat of “we’ll send you a pick but you have to pay some of his salary”…
You gonna spend $4M-$5M of cap to get an extra 4th round pick… woulda have been horrible
My only gripe is… with the cap space we have currently PLUS whatever we paid Singletary, couldn’t we have signed Saquon? Schoen seemed done with Saquon tbh
A GM of any other team there’s no way I would trade for him because I would know the Giants weren’t in a position to keep him with all the other holes. Plus…. He’s a running back which I would never give big money to unless it was a short term deal and I expected to go to the Super Bowl. I would wish him well but he plays for the eagles so……
future value would have been enough. Even if it didn’t.
Drafting him was an easy decision for a simplistic-thinking flawed franchise. Keeping him, franchising him and not trading him was inexcusable.
Ownership and fans lamenting over him is pitiful.
just my opinion of the marketplace vis a vis current need versus what could be gained from a comp pick. There is some value to a 4th in a current draft versus a 4th in a later draft.
...the reason that he wasn't traded is likely Mara.
I can see him telling JS that while he won't force the GM to sign SB after the season, he doesn't want to trade him in-season.
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
think a playoff team might have given up a third for him. He was very cheap at the trade deadline and most third round picks don't work out.
Would you have given up a 3rd round pick for him? I know I wouldn't have.
A player's trade value can be such a hard thing to gauge from the outside looking in. Who would've thought the Giants would get a 2nd round pick for Leonard Williams or that Justin Fields would net only a 6th round pick in return. I'm repeatedly flabbergasted by trade compensation and I don't think I'm alone.
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
Christian McCaffrey
The Carolina Panthers traded Christian McCaffrey to the San Francisco 49ers a 2023 second, third, and fourth-round picks and 2024 fifth round pick.
Just answering the question. I'm NOT saying they are comparable players
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
Christian McCaffrey
The Carolina Panthers traded Christian McCaffrey to the San Francisco 49ers a 2023 second, third, and fourth-round picks and 2024 fifth round pick.
Just answering the question. I'm NOT saying they are comparable players
You CANNOT cite what the panthers got for McCaffrey without also detailing how much time was remaining on CMC's contract. Go ahead... because that makes a HUGE difference.
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
Christian McCaffrey
The Carolina Panthers traded Christian McCaffrey to the San Francisco 49ers a 2023 second, third, and fourth-round picks and 2024 fifth round pick.
Just answering the question. I'm NOT saying they are comparable players
You CANNOT cite what the panthers got for McCaffrey without also detailing how much time was remaining on CMC's contract. Go ahead... because that makes a HUGE difference.
Wasn't making an argument, and busy at the moment. Please feel free....
think a playoff team might have given up a third for him. He was very cheap at the trade deadline and most third round picks don't work out.
Would you have given up a 3rd round pick for him? I know I wouldn't have.
A player's trade value can be such a hard thing to gauge from the outside looking in. Who would've thought the Giants would get a 2nd round pick for Leonard Williams or that Justin Fields would net only a 6th round pick in return. I'm repeatedly flabbergasted by trade compensation and I don't think I'm alone.
Great point here. I honestly don't think its crazy a team would have given up a late 2nd around 60th overall for him or a 3rd round pick. It only takes one and lets be honest those picks aren't the most valuable in the world.
In 2023, Barkley played in the first 2 games, then missed 3 games with an injury, then returned for 3 games before the Deadline.
After 2 games, Barkley had 29 carries for 114 yards and 1 TD with a long of 27. He had 9 catches for 41 yards and 1 TD.
Then he missed 4 weeks (3 games and a BYE).
So far, not much reason to trade anything for him.
That brings us to mid-October and the BUF-WAS-NYJ games. With the Giants riding him hard, Barkley had 81 carries for 298 yards and no TDs. He has 10 catches for 41 yards and 1 TD. The Jets game sees Barkley with 36 carries for 128 yards, no TDs; 3 catches for 0 yards and no TDs.
A team that really needed a starting RB, thought it could go deep in the playoffs if it had one and had a lot of CAP money available might think about trading for Barkley -- but I do not think they would give you a lot of draft capital for him.
Because I didn’t want the Giants to resign Barkley. Maybe we would have gotten a 4th or a 5th rounder. I do think the Giants would have resigned Barkley for $10mil and Mara probably wanted that outcome so Schoen was in a tough spot.
It is clear that the Giants still thought Barkley was the best back available in FA.
I think they should have traded him but it’s not like they would have gotten a 1st rounder. Can’t compare him to LW. LW was most likely done with the Giants because of age and salary.
We're talking a 5th rounder.
There is something to that...to a degree.
However, playoff bound teams could have seen Barkley as a good short term rental and another weapon for their offense.
Baltimore, Buffalo, Saints, Colts come to mind...
What I wish had happened is the Giants traded Barkley out of the division for an outcome better than the contribution to a 4th round 2025 compensatory pick.
I think a 3rd round common pick in the low 90s would have been fair.
And I think the delta in value between a low 90s pick in 2024 and presumed pick in the 130s in 2025, would have been worth it.
You don't need to tread lightly (on my account)
But it seems like fact (not opinion) that trading Barkley would have been a much bigger deal. No?
"We appreciate everything Saquon has done on and off the field as a Giant. We wanted to give him the opportunity to go to an organization in Baltimore we have a lot of respect for. Obviously Baltimore is in a little different position than us in terms of the standings, and we felt this was the right move to help get us to a place where they are very soon."
"We appreciate everything Saquon has done on and off the field as a Giant. We wanted to give him the opportunity to go to an organization in Baltimore we have a lot of respect for. Obviously Baltimore is in a little different position than us in terms of the standings, and we felt this was the right move to help get us to a place where they are very soon."
Good statement
You should be in the PR Dept
Quote:
And all the world knew he was going to hit FA in couple months and could be had without giving any picks.
We're talking a 5th rounder.
There is something to that...to a degree.
However, playoff bound teams could have seen Barkley as a good short term rental and another weapon for their offense.
Baltimore, Buffalo, Saints, Colts come to mind...
Correct. It's possible, yes. We just don't know that that's the case. Remember, high profile FAs hit the market every year, many of them, similarly, from teams who know they aren't winning a SB that season. Yet there aren't very many of these types of trades. Not zero, but not a lot. This leads me to believe that teams aren't as willing to trade away high round picks than many people seem to believe.
At best..
Then Barkley would have to learn their offense. I dont think there was any interest especially when you layer the injury situation with Barkley.
People are freaking out over nothing here. Same people who wanted Barkley gone I assume.
Chase Young, and Montez Sweat, we're all apart of traded that included 2s or 3s (or so re: Douglas).
A player having to learn plays on a new team is not a serious argument against a trade prospect. There were 9 games + the playoffs left.
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Probably a 4 or 5.
At best..
Then Barkley would have to learn their offense. I dont think there was any interest especially when you layer the injury situation with Barkley.
People are freaking out over nothing here. Same people who wanted Barkley gone I assume.
Come on you can't be serious with this. He could have gotten a late 2nd or 3rd.
Chase Young, and Montez Sweat, we're all apart of traded that included 2s or 3s (or so re: Douglas).
A player having to learn plays on a new team is not a serious argument against a trade prospect. There were 9 games + the playoffs left.
Given Barkley injuries in 2023 and the devaluation of RB position, I'd say 4th at best
To see John Mara hem and haw about trading a "popular" player... watching Hard Knocks is like watching an organizational autopsy. "Ah, so that's why they've been one of the worst teams of the past decade..."
You gonna spend $4M-$5M of cap to get an extra 4th round pick… woulda have been horrible
My only gripe is… with the cap space we have currently PLUS whatever we paid Singletary, couldn’t we have signed Saquon? Schoen seemed done with Saquon tbh
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In comment 16554914 Rick in Dallas said:
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Probably a 4 or 5.
At best..
Then Barkley would have to learn their offense. I dont think there was any interest especially when you layer the injury situation with Barkley.
People are freaking out over nothing here. Same people who wanted Barkley gone I assume.
Come on you can't be serious with this. He could have gotten a late 2nd or 3rd.
A second or third for a guy whose contract is about to expire and wants to be overpaid?
Dude...put the crack pipe down please.
Drafting him was an easy decision for a simplistic-thinking flawed franchise. Keeping him, franchising him and not trading him was inexcusable.
Ownership and fans lamenting over him is pitiful.
I can see him telling JS that while he won't force the GM to sign SB after the season, he doesn't want to trade him in-season.
I'd bet in a trade, NY gets a 3rd.
Quote:
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
A player's trade value can be such a hard thing to gauge from the outside looking in. Who would've thought the Giants would get a 2nd round pick for Leonard Williams or that Justin Fields would net only a 6th round pick in return. I'm repeatedly flabbergasted by trade compensation and I don't think I'm alone.
I don't really care about the Barkley shit.
He had two good years out of six and has competition on the Philly roster.
He'll be lucky to make it to 10,000 career yards IMO.
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In comment 16554766 Milton said:
Quote:
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
Christian McCaffrey
The Carolina Panthers traded Christian McCaffrey to the San Francisco 49ers a 2023 second, third, and fourth-round picks and 2024 fifth round pick.
Just answering the question. I'm NOT saying they are comparable players
Quote:
In comment 16554778 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16554766 Milton said:
Quote:
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
Christian McCaffrey
The Carolina Panthers traded Christian McCaffrey to the San Francisco 49ers a 2023 second, third, and fourth-round picks and 2024 fifth round pick.
Just answering the question. I'm NOT saying they are comparable players
You CANNOT cite what the panthers got for McCaffrey without also detailing how much time was remaining on CMC's contract. Go ahead... because that makes a HUGE difference.
Quote:
In comment 16555190 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 16554778 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16554766 Milton said:
Quote:
And anybody claiming otherwise is just guessing blindly.
It's almost as if you think there have never been player-for-pick trades at the deadline that we could use as comps.
Yes but in Barkley's case, given the injuries, the position he plays, his contract status, it's incredibly difficult to gauge his value. You point out there have been previous player-for-pick trades, but when has there been one for a RB? Playoff bound teams will look at their roster and say, "we need another CB, we need another WR, we need another OL, another DL," but teams don't normally say, "what this team needs is another RB."
Christian McCaffrey
The Carolina Panthers traded Christian McCaffrey to the San Francisco 49ers a 2023 second, third, and fourth-round picks and 2024 fifth round pick.
Just answering the question. I'm NOT saying they are comparable players
You CANNOT cite what the panthers got for McCaffrey without also detailing how much time was remaining on CMC's contract. Go ahead... because that makes a HUGE difference.
Wasn't making an argument, and busy at the moment. Please feel free....
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Show me the Money - ( New Window )
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think a playoff team might have given up a third for him. He was very cheap at the trade deadline and most third round picks don't work out.
Would you have given up a 3rd round pick for him? I know I wouldn't have.
A player's trade value can be such a hard thing to gauge from the outside looking in. Who would've thought the Giants would get a 2nd round pick for Leonard Williams or that Justin Fields would net only a 6th round pick in return. I'm repeatedly flabbergasted by trade compensation and I don't think I'm alone.
Great point here. I honestly don't think its crazy a team would have given up a late 2nd around 60th overall for him or a 3rd round pick. It only takes one and lets be honest those picks aren't the most valuable in the world.
But Schoen should have found it...
After 2 games, Barkley had 29 carries for 114 yards and 1 TD with a long of 27. He had 9 catches for 41 yards and 1 TD.
Then he missed 4 weeks (3 games and a BYE).
So far, not much reason to trade anything for him.
That brings us to mid-October and the BUF-WAS-NYJ games. With the Giants riding him hard, Barkley had 81 carries for 298 yards and no TDs. He has 10 catches for 41 yards and 1 TD. The Jets game sees Barkley with 36 carries for 128 yards, no TDs; 3 catches for 0 yards and no TDs.
A team that really needed a starting RB, thought it could go deep in the playoffs if it had one and had a lot of CAP money available might think about trading for Barkley -- but I do not think they would give you a lot of draft capital for him.
I would say we would receive alot more than people think
And as Brian Burns and Leonard Williams, teams are willing to trade draft picks and pay players top dollar
It is clear that the Giants still thought Barkley was the best back available in FA.
I think they should have traded him but it’s not like they would have gotten a 1st rounder. Can’t compare him to LW. LW was most likely done with the Giants because of age and salary.