Dan Duggan's thoughts on Hard Knocks Episode 3

but a couple of quibbles:

- While Saquon may have been technically correct that the Giants didn't make a final offer, he was a little disingenuous in claiming that he wanted to be a Giant for life. The way his agent equivocated when Schoen asked if SB would accept them meeting Philly's offer tells me he wanted out (which is understandable).

- I'm not convinced the Burns deal had that much of an impact on their OL shopping. Would Schoen have met or upped Hunt's $20M offer? I guess we'll never know, but I have my doubts.

- Regarding Neal, I still remain puzzled that so many act surprised that they signed Eluemunor as a backup plan if Neal didn't work out. We all knew that when he was signed, hell, many of us were calling for it before the FA process started. And I took Schoen's "JMS, Runyon, AT" comment as meaning they had fixed that side of the line, not necessarily as an indictment of Neal.

- Totally agree with Duggan on Tyrod. He was pissed when Daboll passed him over when he came back form injury to start DeVito. The only way he comes back is if the Giants had a much better offer than NYJ.

In comment 16554815 Section331 said:

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but a couple of quibbles: - While Saquon may have been technically correct that the Giants didn't make a final offer, he was a little disingenuous in claiming that he wanted to be a Giant for life. The way his agent equivocated when Schoen asked if SB would accept them meeting Philly's offer tells me he wanted out (which is understandable).

He equivocated because he was trying to get more money -- which he did. That's a good agent trying to raise the stakes.

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- I'm not convinced the Burns deal had that much of an impact on their OL shopping. Would Schoen have met or upped Hunt's $20M offer? I guess we'll never know, but I have my doubts.

I do think they are at the very least trying to portray themselves as financially disciplined - but also able to adjust

spot that was not overly great from a Mara doesn't interfere section was how he portrayed Barkley as their most popular player.. Who cares as far as building your team goes. That is more fan like thinking than building a team thinking.

Barkley to me is the MOST overrated player in Giants history! Hands down. He had a great rookie year but was hurt a TON and his production was many times in losing efforts (blowouts even) and a number of times he himself came up small (opportunities for big plays missed, lack of physicality when needed and horrible blocking when called upon) and I think his overall play began to slide after the Houston game in 2022..

In comment 16554833 jvm52106 said:

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spot that was not overly great from a Mara doesn't interfere section was how he portrayed Barkley as their most popular player.. Who cares as far as building your team goes. That is more fan like thinking than building a team thinking. Barkley to me is the MOST overrated player in Giants history! Hands down. He had a great rookie year but was hurt a TON and his production was many times in losing efforts (blowouts even) and a number of times he himself came up small (opportunities for big plays missed, lack of physicality when needed and horrible blocking when called upon) and I think his overall play began to slide after the Houston game in 2022..

Agree. He has value if you can scheme to get him the ball in space, but he isn't suited to be the everydown back - someone that excels when needed to convert 3rd and 1, hit the hole hard, get a tough couple of yards, make a hole if necessary.

has stunk with Barkley on the team and will continue to stink with or without him if the o-line continues to fail. I'd prefer any combination of potentially upgrading o-line and edge like they did over spending to keep Barkley. Philly is a much better situation for Barkley and if Nabers lives up to his status WR was a much bigger need and will have a bigger impact for the offense right now.

for standing his ground - that's not easy to do when the owner is telling you without telling you - if this doesn't work, it's on you.

I've been saying it for years - I think this is how the organization runs, and a lesser GM is going to go along with the ownership group and his cronies/family to try and save his own skin.

OK with Saquon and McKinney walking. Too much money for an aging RB that wasn't very reliable getting those short yards we needed quite a bit.

McKinney's impact on this team was minimal. Really don't remember him making a big impact in any game and his talent is nowhere close to being the 2nd highest paid safety in the league.

Don't let the door hit you guys.

In comment 16554833 jvm52106 said:

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spot that was not overly great from a Mara doesn't interfere section was how he portrayed Barkley as their most popular player.. Who cares as far as building your team goes. That is more fan like thinking than building a team thinking. Barkley to me is the MOST overrated player in Giants history! Hands down. He had a great rookie year but was hurt a TON and his production was many times in losing efforts (blowouts even) and a number of times he himself came up small (opportunities for big plays missed, lack of physicality when needed and horrible blocking when called upon) and I think his overall play began to slide after the Houston game in 2022..

Even throw the popularity out. At some point in time ANY intelligent person needs to realize they're not being successful doing something a certain way and adjust.

Bottom line is we've overall been a bad team trying to center things around Barkley on offense. We need to change course and winning will be more popular than 26 jerseys.

pretty clear the Giants must have forced NFL Films not to air their internal conversations about Evan Neal. Would have been interesting to hear how they are thinking about RT but, to me, they clearly didn't want that info becoming public.

In comment 16554876 Dnew15 said:

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for standing his ground - that's not easy to do when the owner is telling you without telling you - if this doesn't work, it's on you.

I know he's El Presidente, but Mara has absolutely no presence about him. He is pure milquetoast. He's very unimpressive as a C-suite type.

In comment 16554915 Josh in the City said:

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pretty clear the Giants must have forced NFL Films not to air their internal conversations about Evan Neal. Would have been interesting to hear how they are thinking about RT but, to me, they clearly didn't want that info becoming public.

Good point. You may be right.

In favor of a game changing ER and additional OL is the right call. Especially drafting Jim Nabors. However, I think people are in for some eye opening with Barkley on the Philly team. Especially if their OL hasn't taken too many steps back with the loss of Kelce.

Under the doctrine of last clear chance, he cost us two games on the final play last year

In comment 16554944 Johnny5 said:

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In favor of a game changing ER and additional OL is the right call. Especially drafting Jim Nabors. However, I think people are in for some eye opening with Barkley on the Philly team. Especially if their OL hasn't taken too many steps back with the loss of Kelce.

Keep in mind that the Eagles have let go a couple of 1000 yard rushers in the last few years. Heck, I can run through some of those holes. If Barkley runs for over 1000 yards, is he any better than what they had before?

In comment 16555057 Gman11 said:

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In comment 16554944 Johnny5 said: Quote: In favor of a game changing ER and additional OL is the right call. Especially drafting Jim Nabors. However, I think people are in for some eye opening with Barkley on the Philly team. Especially if their OL hasn't taken too many steps back with the loss of Kelce. Keep in mind that the Eagles have let go a couple of 1000 yard rushers in the last few years. Heck, I can run through some of those holes. If Barkley runs for over 1000 yards, is he any better than what they had before?

OK, fair enough. But Barkley had over 960 with an offense with the worst OL in the league (especially for the 1st 8 games), frequently being met behind the LoS, and with not much else around him as far as skill players (at least consistently). Not sure how Deandre Swift looks on the Giants in 2023. I think a lot of people are really underestimating Barkley. I personally think he is going to kick some serious ass on that offense. I hope not actually, but that's how I see it playing out.

In comment 16554833 jvm52106 said:

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spot that was not overly great from a Mara doesn't interfere section was how he portrayed Barkley as their most popular player.. Who cares as far as building your team goes. That is more fan like thinking than building a team thinking. Barkley to me is the MOST overrated player in Giants history! Hands down. He had a great rookie year but was hurt a TON and his production was many times in losing efforts (blowouts even) and a number of times he himself came up small (opportunities for big plays missed, lack of physicality when needed and horrible blocking when called upon) and I think his overall play began to slide after the Houston game in 2022..

I took it from the perspective that losing your most popular and let’s be frank only significant star, was a meaningful loss in the owner’s eye! I don’t begrudge the decision to let Saquon go, but this team lacks star power. And despite some people’s idea that the name on the front of the jersey is more important than that on the back, star power does matter. Hearing Mara share that was noteworthy for me.

In comment 16554915 Josh in the City said:

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pretty clear the Giants must have forced NFL Films not to air their internal conversations about Evan Neal. Would have been interesting to hear how they are thinking about RT but, to me, they clearly didn't want that info becoming public.

The comment on Eluemunor potentially being the RT shows their thinking pretty clearly.

In comment 16555124 Mdgiantsfan said:

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In comment 16554833 jvm52106 said: Quote: spot that was not overly great from a Mara doesn't interfere section was how he portrayed Barkley as their most popular player.. Who cares as far as building your team goes. That is more fan like thinking than building a team thinking. Barkley to me is the MOST overrated player in Giants history! Hands down. He had a great rookie year but was hurt a TON and his production was many times in losing efforts (blowouts even) and a number of times he himself came up small (opportunities for big plays missed, lack of physicality when needed and horrible blocking when called upon) and I think his overall play began to slide after the Houston game in 2022.. I took it from the perspective that losing your most popular and let’s be frank only significant star, was a meaningful loss in the owner’s eye! I don’t begrudge the decision to let Saquon go, but this team lacks star power. And despite some people’s idea that the name on the front of the jersey is more important than that on the back, star power does matter. Hearing Mara share that was noteworthy for me.

Star power means nothing. Wins do

In comment 16555002 WillieYoung said:

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Under the doctrine of last clear chance, he cost us two games on the final play last year

If he could have cost us another one or two games, we'd have our quarterback of the future in the building!

does in his thought process about team building in almost every spot...EXCEPT QB.

The fact that they not just wanted, but were disappointed about the fact that they couldn't retaining Taylor makes ZERO sense to me.

The idea of having the most injury prone backup in the NFL to be 2nd string to a starter that also has major injury concerns is just dumb - I can't find a nicer way to put it.

Especially since DJ is going into an opt out year, with no young QB in the room to groom or potentially take over. I don't get what the NYG are thinking.

After convincing myself that they built that out into the contract as a get out jail free (well - not free, but you get what I'm sayin) after next year, and then after watching this show, I'm really starting to believe that Schoen and Co. believe in DJ and it's not just an ultimatum from above.

I'm a little behind. I'm cheap and couldn't talk myself into spending the money on HBO - but I gave in :)

In comment 16554920 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16554876 Dnew15 said: Quote: for standing his ground - that's not easy to do when the owner is telling you without telling you - if this doesn't work, it's on you. I know he's El Presidente, but Mara has absolutely no presence about him. He is pure milquetoast. He's very unimpressive as a C-suite type.

He actually looks scared during the parts involving Barkley. Like a nervous, old lady.

Didn’t Schoen tell Barkley’s agent “if he’ll take 3 years for $37 million and $25 million guaranteed, then he’s a Giant and we’ll fly him in tomorrow.” How is that not an offer?!?

Also, HBO didn’t play the agents voice in the phone call, but I suspect he wanted the Giants to beat the Eagles’ offer, not match it.

So basically Barkley went to the Eagles for $1 million more guaranteed. But the Giants are the stupid assholes?