complaining about the 15 passing TDs. When they were up close, Barkley was going to be the guy if they were going to score. Run first teams have fewer passing TDs.
What is more of a concern, is he ONLY looked like a legit starting QB against poor defenses.
He has yet to show, he can play well against teams that can take away his first read or shut his running down.
complaining about the 15 passing TDs. When they were up close, Barkley was going to be the guy if they were going to score. Run first teams have fewer passing TDs.
What is more of a concern, is he ONLY looked like a legit starting QB against poor defenses.
He has yet to show, he can play well against teams that can take away his first read or shut his running down.
All true, and while the offensive line was better in 2022, mostly because of Andrew Thomas, Jones still had to play with Evan Neal, who was a complete liability in pass protection, which limited the type of offense they could run, and add to that the way below average talent at the WR and TE positions. But really, who takes those types of things into account when you have stats to back up your take.
Jones played well in 2022 given...you know...he was throwing to guys from your local watering hole. The powerful WR group of Slayton-Hodgins-Richie James with rookie Bellinger and Nick Vannett at TE.
With the usual stinkfest up front.
Sure - why didn't he throw a bunch of TDs with this star-studded receiver group?
I just wish Waller cared enough to actually come back and support the cause. Nabers, Waller & Robinson on 3rd down - now you've got something that resembles an NFL offense.
Some have said he was a productive and winning player in 2022 despite less than good surrounding talent. The team won. He’s still here. Maybe they can do that again. This need to drum this thing into a debate of myths and slings and arrows is so fucking weird.
It's a fan forum on a topic about the most important position on the team, if not all of sports. It isn't 'fucking weird'. It's called difference of opinion.
Jones was fine in '22. Solid, if unspectacular. I think some make his '22 season out to be much better retrospectively speaking, though that's an argument for another day. But that was before he was handed a massive contract implying that the Giants expect him to perform much better than he did in '22.
TBD. & for the record, I hope Jones does. If he succeeds, the team will succeed.
OMG. I PUT IN THE POST RIGHT ABOVE THAT I'M ROOTING FOR JONES FFS!
No one-as far as I know-isn't rooting against Jones. I'd be the happiest person in the world if Jones lights it up this fall & people like me need to eat crow.
No matter how this season plays out, unless Jones is the Super Bowl
MVP, we are going to hear the same yapping next February-March from the same people as we are hearing today, and the noise will be about drafting a replacement QB. Jones is the starting QB until he isn’t.
I'm still unconvinced that we've heard the last of Waller...
MVP, we are going to hear the same yapping next February-March from the same people as we are hearing today, and the noise will be about drafting a replacement QB. Jones is the starting QB until he isn’t.
Jones should feel pretty safe. The Giants don't draft QBs any longer.
Pat Peterson opens his mouth about DJ, you see most of the thread of the usual group bickering about the same story and play off what DJ just did it his defenses in the playoffs (but want to play up normal ass games with no importance to them).
Then Golden Tate, Darius Slayton and Darren Waller talk him up, three guys who have done really well in the league, and three guys who know what's going on inside the huddle and inside the locker room, it doesn't matter too much to then.
Pat Peterson opens his mouth about DJ, you see most of the thread of the usual group bickering about the same story and play off what DJ just did it his defenses in the playoffs (but want to play up normal ass games with no importance to them).
Then Golden Tate, Darius Slayton and Darren Waller talk him up, three guys who have done really well in the league, and three guys who know what's going on inside the huddle and inside the locker room, it doesn't matter too much to then.
You really do not think there is anything different about biased people that know and like a guy personally coming out and saying something vs opponnents that typically do not say things like that?
OMG. I PUT IN THE POST RIGHT ABOVE THAT I'M ROOTING FOR JONES FFS!
No one-as far as I know-isn't rooting against Jones. I'd be the happiest person in the world if Jones lights it up this fall & people like me need to eat crow.
Daniel Jones-between throwing & running-had a whopping 22 TDs in 16 games in '22.
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
I keep bringing it up. Combine his rushing and passing TDs and yardage in 2022 and he still doesn't crack the top 10 when looking only at other QBs passing only numbers.
Some have said he was a productive and winning player in 2022 despite less than good surrounding talent. The team won. He’s still here. Maybe they can do that again. This need to drum this thing into a debate of myths and slings and arrows is so fucking weird.
I would have no problem with his 2022 season, if he was paid as if he had a just OK season (on top of crap seasons). He was paid about double that. To me, that's the problem. The next problem is that we are going into year 6 and we are still waiting "to see" how he is.
The poor Daniel Jones story from 2022 should also be accompanied by a few counter points:
1) Jones the passer benefited from the 4th best run game in the league
2) Only 2 quarterbacks had 3 receivers rank in ESPN Advanced Analytics top 50 in open rate, Jones and Rodgers
3) Jones had 5 interceptions, but 19 turnover worthy throws
Quote:
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
was the only year that Jones had both AT and SB all season healthy. WR's were pedestrian but they were able to have a pretty solid run game especially early in the season. The run game struggled plenty when the schedule stiffened.
DJ was huge in the run game and had the highest amount of 3rd and long conversions in the league in 2022. Daboll's designed 3rd and long shotgun QB runs.
Injury history and cost are more relevant points to discuss. Regardless, this regime chose to stick with DJ.
In other words, he places the ball in a spot where the receivers can make something out of it!
No exactly. On average he threw the ball closer to the line of scrimmage than all but one regular starting quarterback.
Not any one of these factors necessarily makes for below average play. Mahomes has developed into a short passing quarterback, who puts guy in fantastic positions. Brady was the same type of passer towards the end of his career.
The problem is the Giants also simply don't throw the ball downfield. So the net result was a lot of short passes that didn't create many yards.
By contrast, PFF liked him on deep throws overall for the season.
"The 6-foot-5, 230-pound quarterback had some success when he did throw the ball downfield last season. His 119.3 passer rating on deep passes was the third-highest in the NFL, while his 43.5 deep completion percentage ranked ninth."
The OL win rates for both passing and rushing were 29th and 26th, respectively, according ESPN. PFF had better rushing numbers but pass pro remained poor (24th).
The pass catchers, while their open rates were positive due to scheme, weren't anything noteworthy overall.
BigBlueView had a good article with a deep dive on advanced stats, if anyone's bored enough or interested. One here discussing about the receivers and their affect.
"Tied for first is Daniel Jones (+31.7 adjustment). Jones was one of the QBs most affected by dropped passes last season (+13.4), and the quality of his receivers in general (+8.8) and his pass blockers (+6.9) did him no favors either. On the other hand, he gained 7.7 EPA because of his good fortune in not having passes intercepted that should have been. Interestingly, scheme was a negligible factor in his success. My guess is that any benefit that accrued to Jones from the creative play-calling of Mike Kafka was offset for EPA purposes by the run-heavy, short passing approach the Giants felt they needed to use to limit the damage from their subpar blockers and receivers." https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/3/30/23660065/2023-ny-giants-daneil-jones-epa-stats-analytics-2022-best-nfl-quarterbacks-news - ( New Window )
In his extremely limited deep attempts in 2022, he faired well. No one is arguing that. But the sheer lack of volume is the problem. Rating a player on an efficiency metric across a tiny sample size isn't very instructive.
It's like rating a running back on 50 carries and getting excited because he averaged 4 yards a carry.
Quote:
Everyone associated with the Giants, from the coaching staff on down, is aware that the team needs more explosive passing plays. Darius Slayton stated as much in an OTA press conference. After all, the Giants were dead-last in the NFL in 2022 with just 28 pass plays of 20+ yards and a 4.92% explosive pass rate. That likely contributed to Jones’ mediocre 0.0525 EPA per dropback, which ranked 20th out of 39 qualified quarterbacks.
In fact, in Jones’ four seasons in the NFL, he has never ranked above 32nd in explosive pass rate. That speaks to his supporting cast, from a poor offensive line to subpar receiving weapons. Still, Jones’ 4.9% deep attempt rate in 2022 ranked 38th out of 39 qualified passers, ahead of only Matt Ryan.
The entire program has stunk -- from pass pro, to pass catchers, to quarterback.
And if we're going off the advanced metrics the ESPN Advanced Analytics that 538 used before they were sunset, the Giants had the 19th, 24th, and 47th rated receivers in 2022. Not fabulous, but not the tragedy some want to make out to be.
The poor Daniel Jones story from 2022 should also be accompanied by a few counter points:
1) Jones the passer benefited from the 4th best run game in the league
2) Only 2 quarterbacks had 3 receivers rank in ESPN Advanced Analytics top 50 in open rate, Jones and Rodgers
3) Jones had 5 interceptions, but 19 turnover worthy throws
Quote:
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
In the film room, if the quarterback throws the ball directly at the opponent and he drops it, do you think the coaches say "No biggie, he didn't intercept it," or "That was a very bad decision" and holds it against the quarterback?
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
In the film room, if the quarterback throws the ball directly at the opponent and he drops it, do you think the coaches say "No biggie, he didn't intercept it," or "That was a very bad decision" and holds it against the quarterback?
What they ask is what did the quarterback see? Did the wide receiver stop his route? Did the wide receiver run the wrong route? Was the quarterback hit when he made the throw? Was it simply a bad read or bad throw. That's why it's an arbitrary stat.
You, me or some geek sitting at a computer has no idea what happened on the play and yet we want to automatically put it on the quarterback. Sometimes it is the quarterback, but sometimes it's the playcall, it's a defensive player just making a great play or its a receiver not doing what he was supposed to do.
But, let's just make up stats and arbitrary views of how we want to measure it without all of the information.
I think you have a very antiquated view of who works on this type of data collection in 2024.
Unless it's the head coach or the coaching staff, it doesn't matter who works or analyzes the data.
The data will always be flawed without all of the relevant information. This is where we get completely bogged down in statistics to a mind numbing point.
Football is a game of opportunities and missed opportunities. It's tackles made and tackles missed. Blocks made and blocks missed. Its wins and loses. To overly analyze something to the nth degree is overkill especially with so many relevant factors missing in the evaluation.
What did he show that leads any credence to what he says?
You’re right. Let’s dismiss what an actual person who knows the Jms and outs of what’s going on in favor of blowhard fans talking out of their ass. Par the course.
Jones 2022 passing numbers were on a par with his other years outside his rookie year.
It doesn't seem to matter who plays o-line or who the wr are. His passing numbers at Duke were not particularly impressive either- which of course was blamed on his wide receivers and o-line.
We can pretty much expect the same mediocre passing numbers he has exhibited throughout his college and pro careers.
In comment 16556566 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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In comment 16556530 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones-between throwing & running-had a whopping 22 TDs in 16 games in '22.
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
If you are going to be a Giants fan, maybe you should start rooting for the Giants -- which includes rooting for Daniel Jones.
If you're going to be a Giants fan, maybe you should start rooting for the best interest of the Giants - which includes rooting for an upgrade at the QB position.
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
In the film room, if the quarterback throws the ball directly at the opponent and he drops it, do you think the coaches say "No biggie, he didn't intercept it," or "That was a very bad decision" and holds it against the quarterback?
What's it called, in the film room, if he throws the ball directly at a receiver and he drops it? I don't think it's a catch.
I thought Devon Witherspoon was able to get a damn good amount
complaining about the 15 passing TDs. When they were up close, Barkley was going to be the guy if they were going to score. Run first teams have fewer passing TDs.
What is more of a concern, is he ONLY looked like a legit starting QB against poor defenses.
He has yet to show, he can play well against teams that can take away his first read or shut his running down.
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
What is more of a concern, is he ONLY looked like a legit starting QB against poor defenses.
He has yet to show, he can play well against teams that can take away his first read or shut his running down.
What is more of a concern, is he ONLY looked like a legit starting QB against poor defenses.
He has yet to show, he can play well against teams that can take away his first read or shut his running down.
All true, and while the offensive line was better in 2022, mostly because of Andrew Thomas, Jones still had to play with Evan Neal, who was a complete liability in pass protection, which limited the type of offense they could run, and add to that the way below average talent at the WR and TE positions. But really, who takes those types of things into account when you have stats to back up your take.
With the usual stinkfest up front.
Sure - why didn't he throw a bunch of TDs with this star-studded receiver group?
I just wish Waller cared enough to actually come back and support the cause. Nabers, Waller & Robinson on 3rd down - now you've got something that resembles an NFL offense.
Bottom line is if he plays like dog shit this year he won’t be here in 2025
Not sure what BBI will have to talk about if he’s gone
Jones was fine in '22. Solid, if unspectacular. I think some make his '22 season out to be much better retrospectively speaking, though that's an argument for another day. But that was before he was handed a massive contract implying that the Giants expect him to perform much better than he did in '22.
TBD. & for the record, I hope Jones does. If he succeeds, the team will succeed.
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
If you are going to be a Giants fan, maybe you should start rooting for the Giants -- which includes rooting for Daniel Jones.
No one-as far as I know-isn't rooting against Jones. I'd be the happiest person in the world if Jones lights it up this fall & people like me need to eat crow.
Jones should feel pretty safe. The Giants don't draft QBs any longer.
If you are going to be a Giants fan, maybe you should start rooting for the Giants -- which includes rooting for Daniel Jones.
Maybe it's time for our lottery pick QB to live up to his end of the bargain...
After five years...
Then Golden Tate, Darius Slayton and Darren Waller talk him up, three guys who have done really well in the league, and three guys who know what's going on inside the huddle and inside the locker room, it doesn't matter too much to then.
Then Golden Tate, Darius Slayton and Darren Waller talk him up, three guys who have done really well in the league, and three guys who know what's going on inside the huddle and inside the locker room, it doesn't matter too much to then.
You really do not think there is anything different about biased people that know and like a guy personally coming out and saying something vs opponnents that typically do not say things like that?
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
Waller said nothing wrong.
No one-as far as I know-isn't rooting against Jones. I'd be the happiest person in the world if Jones lights it up this fall & people like me need to eat crow.
My post was written long before your second post.
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
1) Jones the passer benefited from the 4th best run game in the league
2) Only 2 quarterbacks had 3 receivers rank in ESPN Advanced Analytics top 50 in open rate, Jones and Rodgers
3) Jones had 5 interceptions, but 19 turnover worthy throws
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
DJ was huge in the run game and had the highest amount of 3rd and long conversions in the league in 2022. Daboll's designed 3rd and long shotgun QB runs.
Injury history and cost are more relevant points to discuss. Regardless, this regime chose to stick with DJ.
In other words, he places the ball in a spot where the receivers can make something out of it!
No exactly. On average he threw the ball closer to the line of scrimmage than all but one regular starting quarterback.
Not any one of these factors necessarily makes for below average play. Mahomes has developed into a short passing quarterback, who puts guy in fantastic positions. Brady was the same type of passer towards the end of his career.
The problem is the Giants also simply don't throw the ball downfield. So the net result was a lot of short passes that didn't create many yards.
Yeah for sure in 2023. I was talking about 2022.
"The 6-foot-5, 230-pound quarterback had some success when he did throw the ball downfield last season. His 119.3 passer rating on deep passes was the third-highest in the NFL, while his 43.5 deep completion percentage ranked ninth."
The OL win rates for both passing and rushing were 29th and 26th, respectively, according ESPN. PFF had better rushing numbers but pass pro remained poor (24th).
The pass catchers, while their open rates were positive due to scheme, weren't anything noteworthy overall.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/
BigBlueView had a good article with a deep dive on advanced stats, if anyone's bored enough or interested. One here discussing about the receivers and their affect.
"Tied for first is Daniel Jones (+31.7 adjustment). Jones was one of the QBs most affected by dropped passes last season (+13.4), and the quality of his receivers in general (+8.8) and his pass blockers (+6.9) did him no favors either. On the other hand, he gained 7.7 EPA because of his good fortune in not having passes intercepted that should have been. Interestingly, scheme was a negligible factor in his success. My guess is that any benefit that accrued to Jones from the creative play-calling of Mike Kafka was offset for EPA purposes by the run-heavy, short passing approach the Giants felt they needed to use to limit the damage from their subpar blockers and receivers."
https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/3/30/23660065/2023-ny-giants-daneil-jones-epa-stats-analytics-2022-best-nfl-quarterbacks-news - ( New Window )
It's like rating a running back on 50 carries and getting excited because he averaged 4 yards a carry.
In fact, in Jones’ four seasons in the NFL, he has never ranked above 32nd in explosive pass rate. That speaks to his supporting cast, from a poor offensive line to subpar receiving weapons. Still, Jones’ 4.9% deep attempt rate in 2022 ranked 38th out of 39 qualified passers, ahead of only Matt Ryan.
The entire program has stunk -- from pass pro, to pass catchers, to quarterback.
And if we're going off the advanced metrics the ESPN Advanced Analytics that 538 used before they were sunset, the Giants had the 19th, 24th, and 47th rated receivers in 2022. Not fabulous, but not the tragedy some want to make out to be.
1) Jones the passer benefited from the 4th best run game in the league
2) Only 2 quarterbacks had 3 receivers rank in ESPN Advanced Analytics top 50 in open rate, Jones and Rodgers
3) Jones had 5 interceptions, but 19 turnover worthy throws
Quote:
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
In the film room, if the quarterback throws the ball directly at the opponent and he drops it, do you think the coaches say "No biggie, he didn't intercept it," or "That was a very bad decision" and holds it against the quarterback?
Quote:
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
In the film room, if the quarterback throws the ball directly at the opponent and he drops it, do you think the coaches say "No biggie, he didn't intercept it," or "That was a very bad decision" and holds it against the quarterback?
What they ask is what did the quarterback see? Did the wide receiver stop his route? Did the wide receiver run the wrong route? Was the quarterback hit when he made the throw? Was it simply a bad read or bad throw. That's why it's an arbitrary stat.
You, me or some geek sitting at a computer has no idea what happened on the play and yet we want to automatically put it on the quarterback. Sometimes it is the quarterback, but sometimes it's the playcall, it's a defensive player just making a great play or its a receiver not doing what he was supposed to do.
But, let's just make up stats and arbitrary views of how we want to measure it without all of the information.
Unless it's the head coach or the coaching staff, it doesn't matter who works or analyzes the data.
The data will always be flawed without all of the relevant information. This is where we get completely bogged down in statistics to a mind numbing point.
Football is a game of opportunities and missed opportunities. It's tackles made and tackles missed. Blocks made and blocks missed. Its wins and loses. To overly analyze something to the nth degree is overkill especially with so many relevant factors missing in the evaluation.
You’re right. Let’s dismiss what an actual person who knows the Jms and outs of what’s going on in favor of blowhard fans talking out of their ass. Par the course.
It doesn't seem to matter who plays o-line or who the wr are. His passing numbers at Duke were not particularly impressive either- which of course was blamed on his wide receivers and o-line.
We can pretty much expect the same mediocre passing numbers he has exhibited throughout his college and pro careers.
This is just so intuitive.
If you’ve been served a shit sandwich for 8 years, you’ve still never had a ribeye.
This is the NFL. You need players.
Quote:
Daniel Jones-between throwing & running-had a whopping 22 TDs in 16 games in '22.
Can people-not wino, but dudes like Waller-stop pretending he had some All Pro like campaign in '22?
It is embarrassing how low the bar is.
If you are going to be a Giants fan, maybe you should start rooting for the Giants -- which includes rooting for Daniel Jones.
If you're going to be a Giants fan, maybe you should start rooting for the best interest of the Giants - which includes rooting for an upgrade at the QB position.
If you’ve been served a shit sandwich for 8 years, you’ve still never had a ribeye.
Daniel Jones: the unluckiest quarterback in the history of the sport
If you’ve been served a shit sandwich for 8 years, you’ve still never had a ribeye.
Hasn't performed at a high level in college and 5 years of pros...maybe its him?
Crazy concept....
Quote:
On average, quarterbacks got lucky 41.7% of the time and had a turnover-worthy play result in a non-interception. Jones, by comparison, got lucky a whopping 73.7% of the time, the highest rate in the NFL. He had 11.08 expected interceptions but just five actual picks.
4) Nearly 50% of all his pass yards came from YAC
Every sad song about how shitty the pass catchers have been when Jones has been a Giant, could easily be flipped about how shitty the quarterback has been.
Daboll is scheming a pulse into this thing. The talent has sucked on both sides of the coin.
I thought an interception was an interception when the opposing defense caught the ball. Had no idea there is a new interception where we call it turnover worthy.
Can we make another stat called loss worthy? Maybe fumble worthy? What about penalty worthy? We can take stats away from players or discount what they did after we review the play and make sure everything was done perfectly.
What an arbitrary measure to say a turnover worthy play. By whose definition? By what measure? Some of these stats are absolutely mind numbingly idiotic.
Did he turn the ball over or not. That should be the only measure.
In the film room, if the quarterback throws the ball directly at the opponent and he drops it, do you think the coaches say "No biggie, he didn't intercept it," or "That was a very bad decision" and holds it against the quarterback?
What's it called, in the film room, if he throws the ball directly at a receiver and he drops it? I don't think it's a catch.
What is more of a concern, is he ONLY looked like a legit starting QB against poor defenses.
He has yet to show, he can play well against teams that can take away his first read or shut his running down.
Explosion plays.
Passing works because of chunks.
Just about tanned enough to turn into a football by now.