Too few have shown big progress year to year (although there are some, KT, McFadden, Wan'Dale etc.),
-but let's see where guys like Banks, Flott, Hyatt, JMS, and yes even Neal stand. If the season is middling record wise, but we have starters that we feel really good about then to me that's a success.
I really like this regime from a competitive perspective, and I like their pro personnel moves even more. The trades, strategy, FA signings, waiver pickups have all shown good process.
The drafts have not moved the needle yet. They haven't been disasters, but now that the roster has a ton of Schoen drafted players starting, we need to see if they're college evaluations and player development are as strong as the rest of the front office.
Also, selfishly, a win against Dallas and a team still in the running after November would be a plus.
Just show steady improvement both in how they play and the players themselves. I despise when people put win totals out there. Lets say we go 7-10 and miss the playoffs. Did we start off 7-0 and then lose 10 straight? That would sucks as opposed to starting off 2-5 and then go 5-5 to end the season with wins against qualaity opponents. Overall win totals for where we are at isn't what we need. We need to see that the players Schoen is bringing in is getting us in the right direction and Daboll is getting the most out of the players.
An innovative offense , more wins than loses. Improved coaching and player development.
In short I’d rather see the current regime show they can get the job done. I rather not start over again.
On offense have the line improve to at least be middle. Run the ball consistently and give Jones a little time.
On defense stop the run and get off the field and not give up 3 downs. If that happens then the offense will get the ball in better field position and more often.
or at least getting a playoff berth. With that, I envision at least 11 wins. And our so-called franchise QB playing like a franchise QB.
Because in order for the above to occur, a large part of accomplishing that rests with the QB.
Last I checked, we have an All-Pro LT, a Pro Bowl-ish Edge, a lottery WR, other dynamic WRs with experience, a rebuilt interior OL, an All-Pro DT, a Pro Bowl-ish LB, a promising secondary, and an offensive minded HC.
That's a lot of parts for the modern game...
In 2024 I would expect 10 wins for it to be successful
We have been bitten too much by guys who flash something and look like they can develop and then the flatten out quick or injuries get in the way and they never get going forward again.
these are also the reflection of this GM/HC. We need to see Thibs take another step now that he is not the only guy. We need to see Neal prove he can stay on the field and put out better efforts then he has. Ezeudu needs to prove he can be healthy and relied on as the 6th man at least. Belly, Flott and Belton all need to adjust to not just be system fits but all around starters.
Guys from the 23 class all need to move forward and cant just be the same level players they were last year. We saw Banks and thought he is a future #1 CB. Cant take a step back
Not only does this progress make us better on the field but it reinforces that the plan and the guys making the plans are geared towards building a consistent contender.
if they could win a road playoff game two years ago
is a loaded term in sports where the goal is to win a title.
To some, me included, success is black and white. You won the title or you didn't.
So I can't define successful any other way than winning a Super Bowl. There can be other goals achieved along the way, that's reasonable, but not success. IMO.
2024 would be an improvement if the Giants demonstrated more consistent good play, indicating the nucleus of the team is getting stronger and the players being picked are proving to be good picks - and the coaching philosophies, strategies, in-game management and team discipline are becoming evident on the field.
But because the word successful is used it's black and white. Some people say playoffs or a win total or improvement, but, in my mind, I see an exit interview for a 11-6 team losing in the 1st round of the playoffs and asking the HC if the season was successful. How could you say yes?
Too few have shown big progress year to year (although there are some, KT, McFadden, Wan'Dale etc.),
-but let's see where guys like Banks, Flott, Hyatt, JMS, and yes even Neal stand. If the season is middling record wise, but we have starters that we feel really good about then to me that's a success.
I really like this regime from a competitive perspective, and I like their pro personnel moves even more. The trades, strategy, FA signings, waiver pickups have all shown good process.
The drafts have not moved the needle yet. They haven't been disasters, but now that the roster has a ton of Schoen drafted players starting, we need to see if they're college evaluations and player development are as strong as the rest of the front office.
Also, selfishly, a win against Dallas and a team still in the running after November would be a plus.
Good post. Captures my thoughts pretty well. Been saying it for years but can they execute on those downs when everyone knows whats coming? Ie; can they block a 5-7 step drop and pick up a third and long? Can they pick up a third or fourth and 1? Can they rush 4 and pressure/sack the QB?
in my mind, I see an exit interview for a 11-6 team losing in the 1st round of the playoffs and asking the HC if the season was successful. How could you say yes?
depends on how that playoff game loss went. Was it a nailbiter with a last second kick or a blowout?
So I could say yes in your scenario to an 11-6 team that demonstrated improved blocking and tackling that loses a close playoff game while otherwise trending up.
whether that’s Daniel Jones revealing he’s a legitimate NFL starter who can lead a high scoring offense, or it being made absolutely clear that he’s not. even if that means we end up with a losing record. winning 9+ games and making the playoffs with the same questions left hanging over the franchise will be a recipe for ongoing mediocrity and disappointment.
An offense that's in the top 10 in the league in scoring. Win 3-4 division games. Win a playoff game.
These are reasonable expectations for a regime that's in year 3, is paying a highly drafted QB, has had several high draft picks, added Burns, etc
Not looking good..expectations are low..this was in the Post this weekend:
The Giants’ two best chances to win a game in the first half of the season are in the first two weeks — as one-point home favorites against the Vikings and as three-point road underdogs against the Commanders, according to DraftKings’ look-ahead betting lines.
I'm not going to put it in temrms of things like playoffs or record. We made the playoffs 2 years ago, but it was a little misleading. So I'll say:
1 - I need to see progress in the young talent Joe Schoen has brought in. There are a lot of question marks on that right now, but it's time to start seeing some tangible positive answers.
2 - Competent Oline play.
3 - In conjunction with #2, I need to see the Brian Daboll's offense playing out. It doesn't have to be 100% there, but we need to be able to clearly see what it's intended to be, including a vertical passing game.
4 - Competent, competitive football. We actually saw signs of this at the end of last year but was overshadowed by early failures. There's going to be down games, but the overall theme needs to be a team that largely competes and is getting closer.
whether its 9-8 or 11-5, to me making the playoffs is the bar. Records get a little subjective due to a game or two, but beating out the other teams for a playoff spot will show growth
no "we need to replace Jones" threads in 2025 would be a sign of a successful season
The Giants could go undefeated and win the Super Bowl. It won't stop the calls to replace Jones. Look at 910. To some, replacing Jones is more important than winning.
The top 3/4 of the league in terms of long term competitiveness...
There must be tangible signs of growth from their draft picks, especially the premiums. There must be signs the Giants belong on the same field as their division rivals, and then the better teams in the NFL. Jones needs to show he revert to 2022 form AND demonstrate much more in the passing game, especially the vertical phase. There must be leaders stepping up on the field to show the way forward and pull the rest of the team with them. Daboll needs a much better season, and the Giants collectively must get out of the chute with a much better start!
a team that is capable of going deep in the playoffs and can legitimately compete with other good teams. If we are not that (spoiler, we're not) I want to be on the path to that.
So I don't really care as much about wins and losses. A repeat of 2022, scraping into the playoffs with a bad team does nothing for me.
On D, I'd like to see a truly excellent pass rush. That is where we placed our chips. It's important. It should be good.
On O, Nabers being great and competent OL play. The realistic best case scenario is that DeVito wins the job from Jones and plays like a credible starter. That would give us some options for the future, whether it's using DeVito as a cheap, adequate QB and/or going after someone in the draft or FA.
Unfortunately, what is likely to happen is that Daniel Jones looks exactly like Daniel Jones, we win 7 or 8 games, and we do this all again next year.
10-11 reg season wins and at least one playoff win. Challenge for the division. I think the eagles will take a step back; possibly cowpies too.
Basically, a little better than 2 years ago in terms of record, but with more decisive wins, much higher scoring offense (due to better OL, Nabers, Wan Dale, Hyatt. We had none of them 2 yrs ago, other than partial season for rookie Wan Dale) and better defense (w/ addition of Burns, Okereke, Banks (didn't have them 2 yrs ago), et al).
Better coaching of OL, better DC and better more experienced roster should make a difference on field.
and offensive line play. Good production and flashes of dominance from Nabers and Hyatt.
Every season seems to be +-3 or 4 wins based on factors unrelated to how good your team is so I'm not going to be excited for another 2022-2023 type record unless I see real improvement in quality of play vs. quality opponents. My expectations will also be capped by our quarterback situation.
At GM or HC. So another way to rephrase the question to me is, what will it take to get there? As far as Jones goes, I've seen enough and don't believe he's the answer. What I do need to see is further evidence that's he's a guy you can win with, ala 2022. I can excuse some of last year due small sample size and what a disaster on Oline and other areas. But if Jones remains a skittish chicken shit opposed to competent transitional QB to true franchise guy, he won't finish the year and will score heavily against others (JS/BD).
9-8 season where we are competitive in most games. Winning 2/4 against Cowboys and Eagles. Having a good enough season where we are on the right track but not good enough to bring Jones back. I don’t want to waste another season on him.
-but let's see where guys like Banks, Flott, Hyatt, JMS, and yes even Neal stand. If the season is middling record wise, but we have starters that we feel really good about then to me that's a success.
I really like this regime from a competitive perspective, and I like their pro personnel moves even more. The trades, strategy, FA signings, waiver pickups have all shown good process.
The drafts have not moved the needle yet. They haven't been disasters, but now that the roster has a ton of Schoen drafted players starting, we need to see if they're college evaluations and player development are as strong as the rest of the front office.
Also, selfishly, a win against Dallas and a team still in the running after November would be a plus.
In short I’d rather see the current regime show they can get the job done. I rather not start over again.
On defense stop the run and get off the field and not give up 3 downs. If that happens then the offense will get the ball in better field position and more often.
Because in order for the above to occur, a large part of accomplishing that rests with the QB.
Last I checked, we have an All-Pro LT, a Pro Bowl-ish Edge, a lottery WR, other dynamic WRs with experience, a rebuilt interior OL, an All-Pro DT, a Pro Bowl-ish LB, a promising secondary, and an offensive minded HC.
That's a lot of parts for the modern game...
Time for Schoen’s draft picks to step up
these are also the reflection of this GM/HC. We need to see Thibs take another step now that he is not the only guy. We need to see Neal prove he can stay on the field and put out better efforts then he has. Ezeudu needs to prove he can be healthy and relied on as the 6th man at least. Belly, Flott and Belton all need to adjust to not just be system fits but all around starters.
Guys from the 23 class all need to move forward and cant just be the same level players they were last year. We saw Banks and thought he is a future #1 CB. Cant take a step back
Not only does this progress make us better on the field but it reinforces that the plan and the guys making the plans are geared towards building a consistent contender.
Trying to pass block
Trying to run block
Trying to rush the passer
Trying to stop the run
To some, me included, success is black and white. You won the title or you didn't.
So I can't define successful any other way than winning a Super Bowl. There can be other goals achieved along the way, that's reasonable, but not success. IMO.
2024 would be an improvement if the Giants demonstrated more consistent good play, indicating the nucleus of the team is getting stronger and the players being picked are proving to be good picks - and the coaching philosophies, strategies, in-game management and team discipline are becoming evident on the field.
But because the word successful is used it's black and white. Some people say playoffs or a win total or improvement, but, in my mind, I see an exit interview for a 11-6 team losing in the 1st round of the playoffs and asking the HC if the season was successful. How could you say yes?
-but let's see where guys like Banks, Flott, Hyatt, JMS, and yes even Neal stand. If the season is middling record wise, but we have starters that we feel really good about then to me that's a success.
I really like this regime from a competitive perspective, and I like their pro personnel moves even more. The trades, strategy, FA signings, waiver pickups have all shown good process.
The drafts have not moved the needle yet. They haven't been disasters, but now that the roster has a ton of Schoen drafted players starting, we need to see if they're college evaluations and player development are as strong as the rest of the front office.
Also, selfishly, a win against Dallas and a team still in the running after November would be a plus.
Good post. Captures my thoughts pretty well. Been saying it for years but can they execute on those downs when everyone knows whats coming? Ie; can they block a 5-7 step drop and pick up a third and long? Can they pick up a third or fourth and 1? Can they rush 4 and pressure/sack the QB?
Can they do these in crunch time?
depends on how that playoff game loss went. Was it a nailbiter with a last second kick or a blowout?
So I could say yes in your scenario to an 11-6 team that demonstrated improved blocking and tackling that loses a close playoff game while otherwise trending up.
A pass rush that opponents respect, and a tough overall defense.
All in all, enough positive results to make me feel that the following year we can actually contend and be a playoff factor.
These are reasonable expectations for a regime that's in year 3, is paying a highly drafted QB, has had several high draft picks, added Burns, etc
Defense coming together.. stopping the run.. Getting off the damn field when its third and long..
WR's becoming something teams actually have to worry about.
Figuring out the QB.. either he is the guy or his isnt.. no more wondering...
The offensive being more explosive and far less predicatible.. I should not be calling out the EXACT play coming next.. from my living room
Anything over 9 wins and Im good..
These are reasonable expectations for a regime that's in year 3, is paying a highly drafted QB, has had several high draft picks, added Burns, etc
Not looking good..expectations are low..this was in the Post this weekend:
The Giants’ two best chances to win a game in the first half of the season are in the first two weeks — as one-point home favorites against the Vikings and as three-point road underdogs against the Commanders, according to DraftKings’ look-ahead betting lines.
Compete in the playoffs.
Run a real offense.
1 - I need to see progress in the young talent Joe Schoen has brought in. There are a lot of question marks on that right now, but it's time to start seeing some tangible positive answers.
2 - Competent Oline play.
3 - In conjunction with #2, I need to see the Brian Daboll's offense playing out. It doesn't have to be 100% there, but we need to be able to clearly see what it's intended to be, including a vertical passing game.
4 - Competent, competitive football. We actually saw signs of this at the end of last year but was overshadowed by early failures. There's going to be down games, but the overall theme needs to be a team that largely competes and is getting closer.
These are reasonable expectations for a regime that's in year 3, is paying a highly drafted QB, has had several high draft picks, added Burns, etc
This.
The Giants could go undefeated and win the Super Bowl. It won't stop the calls to replace Jones. Look at 910. To some, replacing Jones is more important than winning.
To me, anything less than that is a failed season. DJ has to step up and perform like a top 10-15 QB, if not then he needs to get released.
So I don't really care as much about wins and losses. A repeat of 2022, scraping into the playoffs with a bad team does nothing for me.
On D, I'd like to see a truly excellent pass rush. That is where we placed our chips. It's important. It should be good.
On O, Nabers being great and competent OL play. The realistic best case scenario is that DeVito wins the job from Jones and plays like a credible starter. That would give us some options for the future, whether it's using DeVito as a cheap, adequate QB and/or going after someone in the draft or FA.
Unfortunately, what is likely to happen is that Daniel Jones looks exactly like Daniel Jones, we win 7 or 8 games, and we do this all again next year.
Basically, a little better than 2 years ago in terms of record, but with more decisive wins, much higher scoring offense (due to better OL, Nabers, Wan Dale, Hyatt. We had none of them 2 yrs ago, other than partial season for rookie Wan Dale) and better defense (w/ addition of Burns, Okereke, Banks (didn't have them 2 yrs ago), et al).
Better coaching of OL, better DC and better more experienced roster should make a difference on field.
Every season seems to be +-3 or 4 wins based on factors unrelated to how good your team is so I'm not going to be excited for another 2022-2023 type record unless I see real improvement in quality of play vs. quality opponents. My expectations will also be capped by our quarterback situation.
Wins will come when we show the build is solid. Once it is shown that we are contenders, then success can be measured in rings.
We’re only 18 months removed from that, by the way.