New York Giants Hard Knocks Discussion Thread - Episode 4

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but also I guess its a good thing. Had built myself up for excitement of the the draft episode tonight so stinks we will have to wait another week for the payoff, but in the end I'm glad they are giving the draft the large chunk of time it requires and not just glossing over it in one fell swoop.

Would have loved to see an episode on the rookie camps and another on the veteran mini camps that went till end of June.

I know there is team editing, certain scripted scenes to lead up to certain storylines. With all that said, I just can't have enough of this content for entertainment purposes.

I think I must have seen each episode at least 3-4 times each so far.

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QB @ 3 - ( New Window )

In comment 16557571 battttles said:

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... QB @ 3 - ( New Window )

I agree with the first seven words of that tweet.

has arrived...

Wow

Carson gets it...

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Mara trusts Schoen to run the show.

And Malik was their top choice outside of a top 3 QB.

Saban telling Daboll that Nabers was a problem for Alabama.

And nice to see a Tisch appearance, without moaning about palpitations.

In comment 16558004 RCPhoenix said:

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Saban telling Daboll that Nabers was a problem for Alabama. And nice to see a Tisch appearance, without moaning about palpitations.

That did jump out. Schoen walking Mara and Tisch through the "what if" presentation was good, too

Seems they had Bowers as a top ten target.

These episodes fly by.

Primary story from this episode to me is Mara backing Schoen to select a QB if the conviction is there. He obviously wanted Caleb, Daniels or Maye and the Pats 3rd pick set that up. But the Pats were staying put unless the Giants give up multiple high picks in consecutive years. Maybe he felt strong about the QB but not as much about the current roster needing an influx of good, young talent.

Giants tried

Hopefully this is the truth, in a good way. It seems pretty clear that as a group, the Giants did prefer Nabers. Dabs, I'm not sure he could be a bigger Nabers fan than he is.

After seeing this series, I agree. Though I aalso gree with Groh "We're going to draft all three of you guys".

- Joe Schoen's entire family wants a new QB (wife and kids).
- They were clearly serious in trying to get a new QB.
- John Mara was OK with getting a new QB.
- Groh (WR coach) believes Nabers is best WR in the draft.
- Giants had a ton of deals in place to try to move back if Harrison and Nabers were gone.
- Nick Saben loves Nabers.

In comment 16558006 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16558004 RCPhoenix said: Quote: Saban telling Daboll that Nabers was a problem for Alabama. And nice to see a Tisch appearance, without moaning about palpitations. That did jump out. Schoen walking Mara and Tisch through the "what if" presentation was good, too Seems they had Bowers as a top ten target.

The what if scenario was very interesting. No one could have predicted what the Falcons did.

went through the last ten years of first round QBs drafted and the "hit" rate.

I always have an issue with that since each draft is independent of the priors. And we know teams get so desperate for QBs they over-draft them. So, it's a fun exercise, but not a precise statistical evaluation.

The best insight of that episode was Wolf telling Schoen "Your communication has been better than mine." The Pats were a mess.

In comment 16558011 Eric from BBI said:

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- Joe Schoen's entire family wants a new QB (wife and kids). - They were clearly serious in trying to get a new QB. - John Mara was OK with getting a new QB. - Groh (WR coach) believes Nabers is best WR in the draft. - Giants had a ton of deals in place to try to move back if Harrison and Nabers were gone. - Nick Saben loves Nabers.

How can Daboll smoking a cigar in his pool on his birthday not make your list??

Saban loved Bowers, too...

Schoen told Jones that there were possibikitirs they drafted a QB and dont be alarmed if they were picked..

They loved Nabers it seems from the start, if they had the QB in place there would of been no talk of anything else other than Nabers..

In comment 16558014 christian said:

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The best insight of that episode was Wolf telling Schoen "Your communication has been better than mine." The Pats were a mess.

Well, he's a first time GM, and was the interim GM - I believe - during the draft...

A lot of BBIers talked a lot of shit about Bowers in the lead up to the draft. I'm glad to see the organization viewed him highly.

In comment 16558011 Eric from BBI said:

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- Joe Schoen's entire family wants a new QB (wife and kids). - They were clearly serious in trying to get a new QB. - John Mara was OK with getting a new QB. - Groh (WR coach) believes Nabers is best WR in the draft. - Giants had a ton of deals in place to try to move back if Harrison and Nabers were gone. - Nick Saben loves Nabers.

And with all of that, still there was a discussion about how to placate Jones if they ended up drafting a QB.

How about, “We love you Daniel, but we need more from you. If we bring someone in it’s up to you to keep them on the bench.”

I would like to see the Giants treat playing for the Giants like a rare opportunity rather than a birthright that they would have to strip away.

But among the three WRs Nabers seems to have the most self confidence.

Obviously the episode confirms they didn’t have JJ ranked near the other QBs.

And when speculating on which QB could be there for them at 6, Joe did not say Penix. LOL. Showed them acknowledging the risk of selecting a QB and they were interested only in the top 3 prospects, no one else.

Also, remember all that talk about what the Vikings could offer? Based on the trailer for next week, sounds like they may have offered 11 & 23 to NYG. I always felt that offer was overvalued by everyone here.

They clearly did.

saying he wanted to play for the Giants. I didn't believe him for even a moment. I don't think Dabs did either, though he was cool for trading up for him.

….running routes, his great hands/body control…….smooth as the cool side of the pillow! $.

I think it's pretty clear with the Wolf comment Schoen was trying to get something in principle figured out earlier, and the Pats weren't organized enough.

In comment 16558028 D HOS said:

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saying he wanted to play for the Giants. I didn't believe him for even a moment. I don't think Dabs did either, though he was cool for trading up for him.

What else is Daniels going to say there? Seemed like a silly question to ask.

In comment 16558026 Sean said:

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Also, remember all that talk about what the Vikings could offer? Based on the trailer for next week, sounds like they may have offered 11 & 23 to NYG. I always felt that offer was overvalued by everyone here.

Sounds like they wanted Daniels or Maye. But weren't willing to pay a premium.

It was odd, btw, when Schoen said he wasn't going to do a Ricky Williams deal to move up...Probably a throw away line, but that was such an outlier by Ditka.

This is a shitty thing to say, but I think Odunze is soft, and the Giants dinged him for that.

Awkward conversation with Carm.

His son called out only getting one chance at this job.

They had zero interest in JJ McCarthy.

part was Bricillo and Saquon discussing our new OLs.

In comment 16558036 christian said:

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This is a shitty thing to say, but I think Odunze is soft, and the Giants dinged him for that.

I don't draw that conclusion at all.

Nabers and Harrison, Jr were/are just better prospects.

In comment 16558024 RCPhoenix said:

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But among the three WRs Nabers seems to have the most self confidence. Obviously the episode confirms they didn’t have JJ ranked near the other QBs.

They didn't have Penix or Nix anywhere at all. Well they did briefly show Penix laughing - assume it was at the combine or a Pro day. Curious what they feel about the Falcons move in the next episode.

In comment 16558035 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16558026 Sean said: Quote: Also, remember all that talk about what the Vikings could offer? Based on the trailer for next week, sounds like they may have offered 11 & 23 to NYG. I always felt that offer was overvalued by everyone here. Sounds like they wanted Daniels or Maye. But weren't willing to pay a premium. It was odd, btw, when Schoen said he wasn't going to do a Ricky Williams deal to move up...Probably a throw away line, but that was such an outlier by Ditka.

It seems pretty clear Schoen was OK with two #1s and another pick from this draft. He wasn't going to give away two #1s and additional future picks.

Marvin Harrison is the quiet confident receiver, he knows he is damn good but is not flashy..

Nabers is the flashy really good receiver, he is the "dog" receiver that isnt going to back down..

Odunze is the respectful, going to be a good WR but has some of those soft qualities

In comment 16558039 Sean said:

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His son called out only getting one chance at this job. They had zero interest in JJ McCarthy.

So far, that seems right.

Based on the "what if" board - granted only through ten picks - I wouldn't be surprised if they had a second-round grade on McCarthy...

In comment 16558030 thrunthrublue said:

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….running routes, his great hands/body control…….smooth as the cool side of the pillow! $.

Watch his tape - the DBs can’t figure out where he is going. If we didn’t already have a player nicknamed Spider-Man it would apply to Nabers. Although now that I think about it maybe he should be called Miles Morales.

Saban telling Daboll he was a problem is a big deal. And clearly carried weight.

In comment 16558040 Eric from BBI said:

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part was Bricillo and Saquon discussing our new OLs.

It felt like the ex lover checking out what their ex is doing

In comment 16558041 bw in dc said:

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This is a shitty thing to say, but I think Odunze is soft, and the Giants dinged him for that. I don't draw that conclusion at all. Nabers and Harrison, Jr were/are just better prospects.

The quality Schoen and Daboll have repeated about Nabers wasn't physical, it was mentality. I think Nabers has that factor and Odunze doesn't.

In comment 16558049 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 16558040 Eric from BBI said: Quote: part was Bricillo and Saquon discussing our new OLs. It felt like the ex lover checking out what their ex is doing

Bingo.

In comment 16558041 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16558036 christian said: Quote: This is a shitty thing to say, but I think Odunze is soft, and the Giants dinged him for that. I don't draw that conclusion at all. Nabers and Harrison, Jr were/are just better prospects.

He doesn’t have the strong personality the other two do. I think that’s a fair statement.

to the Giants for releasing what they did. There was a ton of unnecessary filler in this show, but the substantive stuff was much more revealing than I expected.

In comment 16558046 nygiants16 said:

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Marvin Harrison is the quiet confident receiver, he knows he is damn good but is not flashy.. Nabers is the flashy really good receiver, he is the "dog" receiver that isnt going to back down.. Odunze is the respectful, going to be a good WR but has some of those soft qualities

It was clear the Giants has Nabers and MHJ in Tier One and Odunze in Tier Two.