I found it interesting that Barkley called out Schoen specifically saying this is what "Joe thought of me."
I actually do agree with Barkley here. Schoen didn't want him back, and he should have just thanked him and move on. The idea of testing the market and coming back to Schoen just showed Schoen was completely off on the RB market. It's clear Barkley got multiple offers above what Schoen pegged the market at. As a GM, you'd like to have a better idea of where the market is at.
Link - (
New Window )
This. Barkley has to be one of the 'losingest' (I know that's not a word) players in Giants' history.
Who cares that he's gone?
Next order of business is adding a stud QB, and the Giants will be in the championship conversation.
Raw stats don't tell this story.
Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors.
Next order of business is adding a stud QB, and the Giants will be in the championship conversation.
my only question is why not do both? the only pass catchers they added were in the draft, so that wasnt a resource re-allocation and it wasn't a fiscally challenging thing to bring back barkley, especially if they'd made an offer along the lines of last year's rumored deals prior to the tag deadline, with the threat of the tag still out there.
clearly at least 1 very smart GM saw barkley's value roughly 3x singletary's and 2x swifts. proof will be on the pudding but im not yet all that comfortable betting on schoen > roseman.
He is a good player but he is not some great player that the Giants lost..
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
[quote] In comment 16557498 PatersonPlank said:
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Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors. [/quote
Barkley was rated by pff as the top, or one of the top, pass blocking rbs two years in a row.
Link - ( New Window )
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Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors.
Statistically Barkley was one of the best and most used pass protecting rbs in football the last 2 years. you may have missed that turn around when you went on strike during the 2022 season.
1. SAQUON BARKLEY, NEW YORK GIANTS
PFF pass-blocking grade: 75.5
Pass-blocking snaps: 83
Pressures allowed: 6
2022 NFL season's best pass-blocking running backs: Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard and more - ( New Window )
durability isn't just games played, it's workload. if they dont develop a few options behind 5'9 207 devin singletary im not sure how well the durability is going to hold up. he's also had a history of issues with fumbles.
there are reasons why he's now been on 3 teams in 3 years.
Interestingly, Buffalo has been moving towards a more run based offense the past couple years. I expect this year they run the RB's even more. Seems Beane saw the downside to trying to navigate the playoffs when you are getting beat up on the lines.
I like the RBBC but TBD if the Giants have the personnel and scheme in place. They also want to be a pass heavy offense. I see significant issues if the OL doesn't pan out as hoped.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
Personally, I like the approach. I want the passing game to be the focus and strength of the offense. I want the Giants to put all of the responsibility on Jones.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
It's hard to argue against this.
Why are we still talking about this? Are we as thin-skinned as Barkley?
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
What about people like me (I’m not the only one) who think Barkley is a really good player AND that it made sense not to sign him long term?
I know it’s a strange concept but people can actually be a fan of the player and acknowledge that the financials don’t make sense for us anymore. Crazy, right?
Why are we still talking about this? Are we as thin-skinned as Barkley?
I suppose it's better than the usual Lombardi thread Sean starts..
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
It's hard to argue against this.
John Mara probably had his hand in this. Probably refusing the trade Barkley.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
This is a fabulous observation. I have a generally positive view of Schoen, but this charade in addition to the moaning over the previous negotiation being too hard, was an embarrassing watch.
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you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.
This comparison is since 2019 (Singletary's first year in the league).
Barkley - 3/$37.75M, $26M guaranteed
Singletary - 3/$16.5M, $9.5M guaranteed
Schoen did good business here, despite Mara protesting that Barkley was our "most popular player" 🤮.
In 2022, the year of the Greatest Playoff Victory Ever (TM), Barkley was second in the league in rushing and scored 10 td's. Jones put up his typically blah passing stats. Last season, with no credible passing threats, Barkley gained 960 rushing yards and another 10 td's running and receiving. From this, it was concluded that the o-line was terrible due to pass blocking and Jones was the essential player who merited the big contract. Ok, I guess, but it wasn't the only way to go or the only conclusion that could be drawn.
I think a lot of the comments on Barkley are the result of his admittedly, too high draft choice (a Gettleman specialty) where he was expected to be "touched by the hand of God", the year he missed due to the knee injury, the current fad of not paying rb's, and ire that he has not personally saved the franchise from its serial poor decisions.
We will see if this is "good business." I have my doubts.
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In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
What about people like me (I’m not the only one) who think Barkley is a really good player AND that it made sense not to sign him long term?
I know it’s a strange concept but people can actually be a fan of the player and acknowledge that the financials don’t make sense for us anymore. Crazy, right?
This is where I am too. It was the right thing to do, but he is a really good player who will do well in Philly. Why does everything suck, and why does everything need to be black and white.
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
Agreed completely, not sure anywhere in my post where I addressed future play besides "it was the BEST move for both parties", due to all the concerns we know and mainly: why he wasn't worth us paying top dollar for.
It didnt work..
Not hating on him for getting his money.. but the whole trying to maintain his " victim " image is annoying.. You making millions.. you gonna be good regardless...
Exactly. All that Giant for life BS was just a ploy for leverage. I don't blame him for wanting to get the biggest deal possible and I won't miss him now that he is gone. Outside of his rookie year, he was often injured and not the same player we drafted, certainly not worth the #2 pick in the draft.
Given the investment in the quarterback and pass catchers over the last 3 offseasons, this all makes makes sense.
Hopefully the Giants are in the 400-425 rush attempts range, and generate that 5700-6000 yards from scrimmage they'll need to be a top 3rd offense more through the air.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
I think it's pretty clear that there is 0% chance Mara would allow Schoen to trade "our most popular player" in the middle of the season last year. So just think Schoen should get 0 blame for not making a move.
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
I simply would have treated this man with respect from the beginning. He deserved that from this organization. Blaming him for being drafted second and being referred to as the man touched by the hand of God is ridiculous. He is a very talented player who did his best here to elevate the team. In the end, they didn't value him. So if they didn't want him this year, then either trade him at the 2023 deadline, tag him and trade him to get some value, or let him go. Nickel and diming him last year at the precise moment that they were galactically overpaying DJ was dumb enough. Not learning from this, and the obvious detrimental impact this had on the psychology of the locker room last year, and now trying to act like they really like his popularity but just don't value him, makes the Giants front office look completely out of touch with reality.
But now that they have transmorphed into a pass first offense so it doesn't matter anyway. DJ will just need to pick up the slack and completely carry the offensive load in 2024. Should be a thrill a minute!
Who here would be upset at Schoen for not offering him 3/$36mm with $25mm guaranteed?
I venture to say not one poster on BBI would have clamoring for that signing this offseason.
Well, unless Mara posts here of course.
Who here would be upset at Schoen for not offering him 3/$36mm with $25mm guaranteed?
I venture to say not one poster on BBI would have clamoring for that signing this offseason.
Well, unless Mara posts here of course.
Great point.
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In comment 16557506 The Mike said:
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
I simply would have treated this man with respect from the beginning. He deserved that from this organization. Blaming him for being drafted second and being referred to as the man touched by the hand of God is ridiculous. He is a very talented player who did his best here to elevate the team. In the end, they didn't value him. So if they didn't want him this year, then either trade him at the 2023 deadline, tag him and trade him to get some value, or let him go. Nickel and diming him last year at the precise moment that they were galactically overpaying DJ was dumb enough. Not learning from this, and the obvious detrimental impact this had on the psychology of the locker room last year, and now trying to act like they really like his popularity but just don't value him, makes the Giants front office look completely out of touch with reality.
But now that they have transmorphed into a pass first offense so it doesn't matter anyway. DJ will just need to pick up the slack and completely carry the offensive load in 2024. Should be a thrill a minute!
He doesn't 'deserve' anything. Maybe they were interested in him but at a much lower price than he wanted. I'm not blaming Barkley for being drafted where he was. But when you talk about the front office being out of touch with reality, drafting him at #2 and not listening to any trade offers is far worse than letting him test the market and come back with numbers.
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what the Texans and/or other teams offered Barkley. I have a feeling those numbers were close to what he got, and perhaps he could have waited a little and drove his price north a bit.
He should have known how angry the Giant fanbase is now that he signed with a hated in-division rival. Signing with the Texans would not sting at all, and he could win with them also.
Now he is dead to me. ;-)
I doubt pro athletes care what a fanbase thinks of him/her
Maybe they shouldn't care, but it's extremely clear that Barkley absolutely cares what the Giants fanbase thinks of him. He wanted to go get his money, sign with his old team's archrival, and still remain beloved by the original fans. Barkley got the contract he was seeking, so you'd think he'd be happy, but somehow he remains concerned with how he's viewed among Giants fans and he seems surprised that he's not being regarded kindly right now.
It's kind of hilarious, really. "Why don't they still love me after I signed with their bitterest rival??"
A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.
B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.
Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.
I'm genuinely curious how one is a "huge saquon barkley fan" as a Giants fan.
He's been the face of a franchise that has been one of the 2 or 3 worst in the entire sport the 5 years he was here.
They wasted the #2 pick on him. No other way around it he was an absolutely atrocious pick.
He had 2 good years for the Giants. He was either hurt or at best mediocre in the other 3.
It's frightening that people watched this team the last 5 years and still wanted to bring Barkley back or still love him. I've never seen a player more overrated than him in my life, in any sport.
Who here would be upset at Schoen for not offering him 3/$36mm with $25mm guaranteed?
I venture to say not one poster on BBI would have clamoring for that signing this offseason.
Well, unless Mara posts here of course.
Well said. I have made the same point using Jones.
If we needed a QB, and weren't in the best draft position to draft one, would anyone be clamoring for Daniel Jones if he was a FA?
I never get an answer. Which isn't a surprise because the answer is a resounding NFW.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
missed this earlier just want to say i agree with those that called out this excellent post.
1 further point id add, the slow drip of syrupy stupidity resulted in nyg not having control over sending barkley wherever they wanted via trade either now or prior, and ended up with Howie Roseman eating the pancakes. That farther drips this whole saga out and if it directly improves a rival its all the more mismanaged. especially now knowing there were other teams bidding on barkley and presumably would have been fine taking him on the tag even if it were for no more than a vanity pick.
He got paid. He's the biggest fucking pussy on the planet. Never healthy and a now a bitchy whiner. They could have tagged him. Lost all respect for him.
Whiny bitch that can't move on. Like some here.
2) If that really was for Mara's sake, how freaking weak is he already. Get over it.
3) From Barkley's perspective, why wouldn't he leave for the greatest offer? The Giants, as a team and organization don't offer him anywhere near the best chance to win. So go out and get paid. And he did, with a much better chance to win.
4) I admit, I loved the pick. I also think he is still super talented and capable of great seasons. He will probably shine behind that OL. But, it was still the correct decision to not re-sign him.
5) As The Mike said, not re-signing him was the culmination of several mis-steps by the organization the last couple of years with Barkley.
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but it looks like it came down to:
A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.
B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.
Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.
I'm genuinely curious how one is a "huge saquon barkley fan" as a Giants fan.
He's been the face of a franchise that has been one of the 2 or 3 worst in the entire sport the 5 years he was here.
They wasted the #2 pick on him. No other way around it he was an absolutely atrocious pick.
He had 2 good years for the Giants. He was either hurt or at best mediocre in the other 3.
It's frightening that people watched this team the last 5 years and still wanted to bring Barkley back or still love him. I've never seen a player more overrated than him in my life, in any sport.
It's not just that they wasted the pick, it's that they didn't even entertain offers to trade down. Instead of building draft capital on what a lousy roster, DG did his man love thing.
I think Schoen was playing the game for ownerships sake but never really wanted him back or they were hoping the number was $8-$9 mil a season and they would have resigned him. It’s clear the Giants weren’t going to go back to the original offers from a year ago.
If Barkley has a great year it’s still not a bad move for the Giants. The only way it’s a bad move for the Giants is if Philly wins the Super Bowl. Short of that it’s just a player that went to another team. Barkleys track record says that he will have 1 good year out of the next 3. I’d rather have Singletary and the extra cash, I don’t think the stats of the 2 players will be that different.
McKinney was a more significant loss to the Giants than Barkley was.
He was butthurt about how the negotiations went the last 18 months. And hasn’t bled blue since then. And WANTED out, especially to go to the Eagles.
As. Person, one of the nicest athletes I’ve ever met.
As a Giants fan, FUCK SNAQUON!!!!!!!
SbB interview - ( New Window )
That’s the season he finished with 1,300 on the ground and ten TDs?
It wasn't that Schoen "didn't want Barkley back" (at all), he just couldn't bring him back at Barkley's price.
It wasn't personal. It was a business decision, IMO the right one, and I'm glad Schoen made it.
As for Barkley, if he can stay on the field (a big IF), he's certainly set up for more success in Philly's offense.
Barkley is a great guy who's head and heart are in the right place. It's frankly a shame his best years were ultimately wasted with the Giants. I wish him success -- except when he's playing against the Giants.