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Barkley on NYG negotiation

Sean : 7/23/2024 7:35 am
I found it interesting that Barkley called out Schoen specifically saying this is what "Joe thought of me."

I actually do agree with Barkley here. Schoen didn't want him back, and he should have just thanked him and move on. The idea of testing the market and coming back to Schoen just showed Schoen was completely off on the RB market. It's clear Barkley got multiple offers above what Schoen pegged the market at. As a GM, you'd like to have a better idea of where the market is at.
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Maybe he should also mention the offers he turned down last year  
BillT : 7/23/2024 7:39 am : link
Oh. Does that not fit into his little narrative. Yeah, let’s ignore that. Wouldn’t want to take any responsibility for his own departure.
I don’t think there’s an atheltet  
JT039 : 7/23/2024 7:42 am : link
I care less about than Saquan Barkley.
I'm a huge Barkley fan  
Pete from Woodstock : 7/23/2024 7:43 am : link
but it looks like it came down to:

A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.

B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.

Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.

Shocking, the player  
section125 : 7/23/2024 7:48 am : link
has a view/opinion that makes the GM look bad.

Barkley was offered essentially the same thing he signed for this year in the previous season. It was Barkley and his agent that misread the market.

And, if there was a better offer to him, then he would not have signed with the Eagles.
Of course  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2024 7:52 am : link
it's what Joe thought of him and it's exactly what a GM should do and how he should act with a potential FA.

Set a value on a player, let the player see if they can get more, and optionally if the player wants to be on your team, allow them to share their best offer with you for a chance to match or get close to the offer.

this is sports and it's a business.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/23/2024 7:52 am : link
Can this story please just go away? Saquon isn’t good enough to warrant such constant time on his FA process.
You assume Schoen wanted him back.  
robbieballs2003 : 7/23/2024 7:53 am : link
He didn't. That was his way of making Mara more okay with losing Barkley than just flat out saying we are going in a different direction.
Saquon  
dslayton86 : 7/23/2024 7:55 am : link
was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.

It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.

And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.

Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.

RE: Saquon  
section125 : 7/23/2024 8:02 am : link
In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
Quote:
was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.

It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.

And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.



It was reported that the Giants offered 3 yrs at $12.5 mill and $22 mill gtd - ok, the Eagles offered $26 mill gtd. So the Giants offer, a year and a half earlier was in the ballpark.
Yes, he has some incentives available with the Eagles that may not have been offered by the Giants - we didn't get that far.
It seems obvious  
Chris684 : 7/23/2024 8:02 am : link
This bridge was burned in the off-season prior to this one.

Saquon can fuck off. I wanted him at 2 so I have to eat crow but talk about a guy with an inflated ego. He had one great season here and one good one. The rest of it is all very forgettable and now he goes to the Eagles and talks shit starting with that stunt he pulled with his daughter.

Schoen knew the market, IMO  
UConn4523 : 7/23/2024 8:04 am : link
letting Barkley “test” it was a way to amicably move on with the best optics possible. I think it’s as simple as that.
Saquon and his agent  
dd in Mass : 7/23/2024 8:05 am : link
totally misread the market in 2023. He wanted McCaffery money.
Schoen did his best to sign him and would have gladly tagged DJ.

He then fires his agent, and now a year later, he blames Schoen. Give me a break. I'm all set with Saquon the tip toe bandit.
RE: Schoen knew the market, IMO  
robbieballs2003 : 7/23/2024 8:06 am : link
In comment 16557376 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
letting Barkley “test” it was a way to amicably move on with the best optics possible. I think it’s as simple as that.


Exactly. The OP can't say Schoen didn't want him back in one breath and in the next breath say he misread the market. It can't be both. Either he didn't want him back and didn't give a shit about the market or he was willing to take him back and needed it to be for their number.
RE: …  
rsjem1979 : 7/23/2024 8:07 am : link
In comment 16557371 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Can this story please just go away? Saquon isn’t good enough to warrant such constant time on his FA process.


Hey come on now. That's the "face of the franchise" and "identity of the offense" you're talking about there.
RE: RE: Saquon  
Toth029 : 7/23/2024 8:08 am : link
In comment 16557374 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:


Quote:


was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.

It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.

And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.





It was reported that the Giants offered 3 yrs at $12.5 mill and $22 mill gtd - ok, the Eagles offered $26 mill gtd. So the Giants offer, a year and a half earlier was in the ballpark.
Yes, he has some incentives available with the Eagles that may not have been offered by the Giants - we didn't get that far.


Quit being a baby, bro.

;-)
RE: Saquon  
BillT : 7/23/2024 8:10 am : link
In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
Quote:

And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.



“Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. “

The Giants offered him more on an APY basis than the Eagles. Less guaranteed And a year earlier. So, no the Eagles offer wasn’t really any better.
 
christian : 7/23/2024 8:11 am : link
Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.

Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.

He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
RE: …  
dslayton86 : 7/23/2024 8:13 am : link
In comment 16557384 christian said:
Quote:
Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.

Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.

He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.

These facts seem to be ignored by the upset Giant fan.
RE: Saquon  
Pete from Woodstock : 7/23/2024 8:15 am : link
In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
Quote:
was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.

It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.

And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.

Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.


Totally agree with you!
RE: …  
section125 : 7/23/2024 8:16 am : link
In comment 16557384 christian said:
Quote:
Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.

Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.

He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.


That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers.
OTC Barkley - ( New Window )
RE: …  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2024 8:22 am : link
In comment 16557384 christian said:
Quote:
Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.

Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.

He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.


absolutely right, but also this is one of those transactions that worked out well for both the player and the team. people get too emotional to agree.

Saquon gambled on himself and won, and the Giants get to free up $$ and reset the RB position to get a player who is in their prime when the Giants are contending and not pay a RB top of the scale, wasting precious cap dollars, while they're not a contender.

Yes he was their best offensive player and that's the headline for the media, but being the best player on a shitty offense doesn't get the team much.
if  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/23/2024 8:22 am : link
you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.
The Giants offered Saquon  
HardTruth : 7/23/2024 8:27 am : link
A deal worse than the Eagles did and they did it a year later, after an injury, and after a worse season and they are a worse team.

That with the fact that the Giants pulled an offer from Saquon in 2023 and gave him a worse offer at the end of the season. That offer was actually worse than Barkley being tagged twice.

They also refused to trade him at the deadline to a contender last year and they also negotiated incentives in his tag like amount of TDs - which he fell 1 short of by the way. (I wonder how he felt seeing the Giants desperately try and get Sterling Shephard a TD in the second half of the last game instead of himself ? )
Schoen was right is his assessment  
TheBlueprintNC : 7/23/2024 8:29 am : link
He needed to build the lines... he needed to spend money on the OL and D. Not WR and RB and S
RE: if  
TheBlueprintNC : 7/23/2024 8:30 am : link
In comment 16557394 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.


His numbers should dramatically improve in Philly... it was still the right call by Joe and Dabs
RE: if  
Dankbeerman : 7/23/2024 8:32 am : link
In comment 16557394 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.


After it went down I dug into Barkley vs Singletary and they averaged the same yards per touch, somewhere about 4.3. The big difference is Barkley averaged something like 21 touches per game to Singletary's 14.

I also don't think Daboll wants to give any back 20+ touches a game so if he can match production per snap we shouldnt see much drop off

RE: RE: …  
christian : 7/23/2024 8:32 am : link
In comment 16557388 section125 said:
Quote:
Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.

Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.

He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.

That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers. OTC Barkley - ( New Window )


That's not what I am referring to.

The Giants gave Barley 10.1M guaranteed dollars in 2023 + the Eagles gave him 26M in guarantees over 2024-2026.
The people who read the market wrong  
UConn4523 : 7/23/2024 8:35 am : link
we’re all the posters who said Barkley was stupid for not taking Schoens deal last year. Schoen knew the market then, we know this because he gave a lowball offer before the 2023 season which was still technically a decent sized deal. Then they didn’t want to play the tag game again (with a big 1 year cap hit) so it was pretty much over at that point, just optics since.
I disagree with the OP that Schoen didn't gauge the market correctly  
Heisenberg : 7/23/2024 8:36 am : link
He just didn't want to pay the market as the market valued Saquon more highly than Schoen was willing to go. It seemed pretty clear that they could come to a deal they liked better with "Motor" and did.

The most rational outcome for both sides was Saquon to leave and get the most money he can in what is always a short career and Schoen to use the money that might have been spent retaining Saquon elsewhere on a shitty roster.
RE: I disagree with the OP that Schoen didn't gauge the market correctly  
dslayton86 : 7/23/2024 8:39 am : link
In comment 16557405 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
He just didn't want to pay the market as the market valued Saquon more highly than Schoen was willing to go. It seemed pretty clear that they could come to a deal they liked better with "Motor" and did.

The most rational outcome for both sides was Saquon to leave and get the most money he can in what is always a short career and Schoen to use the money that might have been spent retaining Saquon elsewhere on a shitty roster.

Yup and that's really the bottom line.
The market is irrelevant  
UberAlias : 7/23/2024 8:50 am : link
Unless NYG could have Barkley on the cheap, they were moving on. And that was the correct thinking.

This ego drama here.
RE: The market is irrelevant  
robbieballs2003 : 7/23/2024 8:51 am : link
In comment 16557414 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Unless NYG could have Barkley on the cheap, they were moving on. And that was the correct thinking.

This ego drama here.


👍
You need to hold the line  
Blueworm : 7/23/2024 8:54 am : link
When dealing with RBs with heavy wear after 27.

YAC, Explosion plays, and GPS Mph are all down.
RE: RE: RE: …  
section125 : 7/23/2024 8:54 am : link
In comment 16557402 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16557388 section125 said:


Quote:


Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.

Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.

He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.

That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers. OTC Barkley - ( New Window )



That's not what I am referring to.

The Giants gave Barley 10.1M guaranteed dollars in 2023 + the Eagles gave him 26M in guarantees over 2024-2026.


He turned down basically the same deal in Nov 2022 - but with a smaller $22 m gtd amount. The reported (not verified) numbers were 3 yrs $12 or 12.5 per / $22 m gtd....

It doesn't matter now. Schoen really didn't want him back at those numbers.
RE: Saquon  
ShocktoBeck : 7/23/2024 8:56 am : link
In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
Quote:
was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.

It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.

And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.

Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.


+1

With the addition that allowing him to test the market was the class move by the team and to SB’s benefit. The Giants could have tagged him again, which he didn’t want. So being sore about that is misplaced on his part imo.
RE: RE: if  
ShocktoBeck : 7/23/2024 9:03 am : link
In comment 16557400 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
In comment 16557394 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.



After it went down I dug into Barkley vs Singletary and they averaged the same yards per touch, somewhere about 4.3. The big difference is Barkley averaged something like 21 touches per game to Singletary's 14.

I also don't think Daboll wants to give any back 20+ touches a game so if he can match production per snap we shouldnt see much drop off


I find these comparisons misleading. Football isn’t played in a lab. The 2 backs played behind 2 different OL, 2 different QBs, and different game situations.

They are very different backs. They do different things well. A case can be made Singletary fits this team better. But a case that they are the same with one cheaper than the other can’t be.
 
christian : 7/23/2024 9:07 am : link
Dunleavy reported at the time the final offer was 3/33M with between 22M and 23M guaranteed. Garafolo then corroborated that on Twitter. Given the appearant access he has to Schoen, I strongly believe Garafolo.

There are 2 questions:

1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.

2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
The point the Giants were trying to make too  
mittenedman : 7/23/2024 9:07 am : link
was the legacy aspect.

No Ring of Honor now and all the amenities that come with it.

Even with the losing he could’ve cemented himself as an immortal in NY sports history.

And he left over a million $$$ in the short term.

Schoen wanted him back for sure, I don’t think it’s right to say the Giants had zero interest. They were hoping he came back at their price and played the long game.
RE: I don’t think there’s an atheltet  
NJLCO : 7/23/2024 9:11 am : link
In comment 16557363 JT039 said:
Quote:
I care less about than Saquan Barkley.

I agree with you 100%. Move on please.
Shoen Made The Right Call  
LTIsTheGreatest : 7/23/2024 9:13 am : link
The only thing that bothered me was that if Shoen had no intention of paying him market value then why didnt he trade him last October and at least get something in return? Barkley had value and could have gotten at least a 4th or 5th round pick for him
Section  
UConn4523 : 7/23/2024 9:17 am : link
the $10.1m is a big factor because he’s not likely to see that kind of a guarantee when his deal ends even if he signed the deal last year. He took a chance that he can get the $10.1m plus an equal or great deal on top of it and he nailed it. The goal for NFL players that aren’t playing the QB position (and even most QBs but not all) is to get as much guaranteed money as possible - Barkley succeeded in that effort.
Schoen made his choice  
HomerJones45 : 7/23/2024 9:17 am : link
he chose to overpay the mediocre qb instead of dumping him and signing a less expensive free agent or playing hardball with him in negotiations. Now he's got to spend money to shore everything else up to save the mediocrity. Btw, Singletary has the same cap number this year as Barkley.

If it all works out, great. If the qb puts up another mediocre year, not that his fans will know the difference, then it's going to be Schoen's head in the noose. He chose the path.
RE: Maybe he should also mention the offers he turned down last year  
Section331 : 7/23/2024 9:21 am : link
In comment 16557362 BillT said:
Quote:
Oh. Does that not fit into his little narrative. Yeah, let’s ignore that. Wouldn’t want to take any responsibility for his own departure.


This x 1,000. We can possibly fault Schoen for not having a read on the RB market, but the reality is that the top of the market was too rich for him. I’m not sure what Saquon is complaining about - Schoen did him a huge favor by allowing him to test the market rather than slapping the FT on him.

At this point, I don’t really care how it went down. Barkley is an Eagle, I don’t see the need to discuss him other than when we’re playing Philly.
RE: …  
section125 : 7/23/2024 9:24 am : link
In comment 16557427 christian said:
Quote:
Dunleavy reported at the time the final offer was 3/33M with between 22M and 23M guaranteed. Garafolo then corroborated that on Twitter. Given the appearant access he has to Schoen, I strongly believe Garafolo.

There are 2 questions:

1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.

2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.


I never saw the $11 mill and frankly nobody on BBI has ever said that number(well, that I saw). I always read 3 at $12/12.5 and those are the only reported numbers I ever saw here. But 3 at $33 mill would have been light, yes. Rumor I remember was he wanted $13 mill AAV.

I still do not see his $36.1 gtd. OTC has $26 mill. If it was $36 mill gtd, that is a significant boost, absolutely.
Schoen couldn’t tag him again though  
UConn4523 : 7/23/2024 9:26 am : link
The whole point of a long term deal was avoiding the big year 1 cap hit.
Would surely like to know  
Spyder : 7/23/2024 9:28 am : link
what the Texans and/or other teams offered Barkley. I have a feeling those numbers were close to what he got, and perhaps he could have waited a little and drove his price north a bit.

He should have known how angry the Giant fanbase is now that he signed with a hated in-division rival. Signing with the Texans would not sting at all, and he could win with them also.

Now he is dead to me. ;-)
 
christian : 7/23/2024 9:29 am : link
My guess is Schoen didn't want Barkley back and threaded the needle in such a way that he knew Barkley wouldn't agree to his offers, but that the offers were in the neighborhood of fair. And in the worst case, if Barkley did accept, they were low enough to not offend Schoen's sensibilities.

Personally, I like the approach. I want the passing game to be the focus and strength of the offense. I want the Giants to put all of the responsibility on Jones.
RE: I'm a huge Barkley fan  
gersh : 7/23/2024 9:31 am : link
In comment 16557364 Pete from Woodstock said:
Quote:
but it looks like it came down to:

A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.

B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.

Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.


Exactly
And the value Barkley had for the Giants was less than for the Eagles. I think they over-paid - but a difference maker is valuable when you are chasing a ring.
If you add the  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2024 9:31 am : link
$10M from 2023 FT to the $26M guaranteed in his new deal you get $36M guaranteed.

The fact Barkley bet on himself, rejected the LT offer, played on the tag and wound up getting another $26M means the right way to look at it is he got $36M guaranteed from 2023 - 2026.
Screw him and anyone that isn't a Giant anymore.  
Neckbone1333 : 7/23/2024 9:34 am : link
Especially anyone that went to the Eagles, Cowboys, or Redskins.

Go Big Blue!
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