I found it interesting that Barkley called out Schoen specifically saying this is what "Joe thought of me."
I actually do agree with Barkley here. Schoen didn't want him back, and he should have just thanked him and move on. The idea of testing the market and coming back to Schoen just showed Schoen was completely off on the RB market. It's clear Barkley got multiple offers above what Schoen pegged the market at. As a GM, you'd like to have a better idea of where the market is at.
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This ego drama here.
I agree - Barkley’s value to other teams was clearly more than his value to a Giants team with so many needs across the roster. That’s not disrespect from the Giants, that’s a sign that just maybe the Giants are trying to make prudent decisions about cap allocation for a change.
Perfectly reasonable that Philly thinks Barkley may put them over the top, so $13 million a year will be worth it. The Giants aren’t one RB, even an elite one when healthy from getting over the top
There are 2 questions:
1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.
2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
I never saw the $11 mill and frankly nobody on BBI has ever said that number(well, that I saw). I always read 3 at $12/12.5 and those are the only reported numbers I ever saw here. But 3 at $33 mill would have been light, yes. Rumor I remember was he wanted $13 mill AAV.
I still do not see his $36.1 gtd. OTC has $26 mill. If it was $36 mill gtd, that is a significant boost, absolutely.
Barkley ultimately secured 2 contracts. The franchise tender from the Giants for 2023 at 10.1M in full guarantees.
And the second the Eagles contract with 26M in full guarantees for 2024-2026.
If Barkley would have accepted the Giants best and final offer per Dunleavy, he would have secured 22-23M in guarantees.
Instead, he took the risk and netted 36.1M in guarantees.
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If Saquon Barkley was drafted second overall by the Texans and had the same career, no one would care. The Giants signed a more productive running back this off season.
Goodbye Saquon!
This offense is not a run first offense
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Dunleavy reported at the time the final offer was 3/33M with between 22M and 23M guaranteed. Garafolo then corroborated that on Twitter. Given the appearant access he has to Schoen, I strongly believe Garafolo.
There are 2 questions:
1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.
2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
I never saw the $11 mill and frankly nobody on BBI has ever said that number(well, that I saw). I always read 3 at $12/12.5 and those are the only reported numbers I ever saw here. But 3 at $33 mill would have been light, yes. Rumor I remember was he wanted $13 mill AAV.
I still do not see his $36.1 gtd. OTC has $26 mill. If it was $36 mill gtd, that is a significant boost, absolutely.
Barkley ultimately secured 2 contracts. The franchise tender from the Giants for 2023 at 10.1M in full guarantees.
And the second the Eagles contract with 26M in full guarantees for 2024-2026.
If Barkley would have accepted the Giants best and final offer per Dunleavy, he would have secured 22-23M in guarantees.
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The Giants’ final three-year offer was $11 million per year with guarantees between $22 million and $23 million, multiple sources told the Post.
Instead, he took the risk and netted 36.1M in guarantees. Link - ( New Window )
hmm, ok. A different way to look at guaranteed money when including a previous year's contract. But I see it now.
He should have known how angry the Giant fanbase is now that he signed with a hated in-division rival. Signing with the Texans would not sting at all, and he could win with them also.
Now he is dead to me. ;-)
I doubt pro athletes care what a fanbase thinks of him/her
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Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers. OTC Barkley - ( New Window )
And he's comparing three years to four. If he signed with the Giants in 2026, the 4th year, and got say $8 million that cuts the diference over four years to $6 million in guarantees. You can't compare a three-year offer from the Giants with a three-year offer from Philly PLUS the Giants tag year unless you assume Saquon doesn't play the fourth year.
I can go back and find all the quotes from Giants angry at management going back to the Maras and Sam Huff in the 1950s over his contract.
How many times did Harry Carson demand a trade due to the team losing and his contract?
LT literally signed a contract with Trump and the USFL to go the NJ Generals because he was fed up with George Young in negotiations and that forced the Giants hand.
Jesse Armstead and Ernie Accorsi. Shockey tried to beat up Jerry Reese and got traded. We all know about Gettleman's dealing with players.
Now Schoen and Saquon. Rinse and repeat.
Correct. The rest is handwringing, nothing more.
It didnt work..
Not hating on him for getting his money.. but the whole trying to maintain his " victim " image is annoying.. You making millions.. you gonna be good regardless...
I can go back and find all the quotes from Giants angry at management going back to the Maras and Sam Huff in the 1950s over his contract.
How many times did Harry Carson demand a trade due to the team losing and his contract?
LT literally signed a contract with Trump and the USFL to go the NJ Generals because he was fed up with George Young in negotiations and that forced the Giants hand.
Jesse Armstead and Ernie Accorsi. Shockey tried to beat up Jerry Reese and got traded. We all know about Gettleman's dealing with players.
Now Schoen and Saquon. Rinse and repeat.
how many strahan training camp dramas too? jpp, obj, etc. the list always goes on.
the difference here is that people are sort of white knighting Schoen when we dont know how this one turns out yet. he did at least partially misread the market. doesn't mean he was wrong to let barkley walk but it also certainly doesnt mean he was right to pay $10m last year while passing on a 2nd year for just 12m more gtd.
christian's posts in this thread are all exactly right. sincere thank you to christian for saving me the time of having to make those posts. the numbers are inarguably clear that barkley made the right decision for himself.
They turned out to be completely correct. Barkely had a demonstrably less productive season, got hurt again, is a year older with an additional 288 touches on his belt. And he earned a bigger contract.
I wouldn't have believed it at the time, but he was completely right. He could have walked away from the table with 22M, instead he bet 12M on the next hand, and won a 26M pot.
They turned out to be completely correct. Barkely had a demonstrably less productive season, got hurt again, is a year older with an additional 288 touches on his belt. And he earned a bigger contract.
I wouldn't have believed it at the time, but he was completely right. He could have walked away from the table with 22M, instead he bet 12M on the next hand, and won a 26M pot.
This comparison is since 2019 (Singletary's first year in the league).
Barkley - 3/$37.75M, $26M guaranteed
Singletary - 3/$16.5M, $9.5M guaranteed
Schoen did good business here, despite Mara protesting that Barkley was our "most popular player" 🤮.
i think most people are analyzing it from the perspective of what it says about the giants current leadership's strategy and their vision of the team going forward.
is it really mind blowing that giants fans would have interest in that? or "waste breathe" analyzing that? isnt the entirety of BBI wasted breathe talking about the giants? i guess except NFTs which are wasted breathe on other subjects.
This. Barkley has to be one of the 'losingest' (I know that's not a word) players in Giants' history.
Who cares that he's gone?
Next order of business is adding a stud QB, and the Giants will be in the championship conversation.
Raw stats don't tell this story.
Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors.
Next order of business is adding a stud QB, and the Giants will be in the championship conversation.
my only question is why not do both? the only pass catchers they added were in the draft, so that wasnt a resource re-allocation and it wasn't a fiscally challenging thing to bring back barkley, especially if they'd made an offer along the lines of last year's rumored deals prior to the tag deadline, with the threat of the tag still out there.
clearly at least 1 very smart GM saw barkley's value roughly 3x singletary's and 2x swifts. proof will be on the pudding but im not yet all that comfortable betting on schoen > roseman.
He is a good player but he is not some great player that the Giants lost..
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
[quote] In comment 16557498 PatersonPlank said:
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Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors. [/quote
Barkley was rated by pff as the top, or one of the top, pass blocking rbs two years in a row.
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Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors.
Statistically Barkley was one of the best and most used pass protecting rbs in football the last 2 years. you may have missed that turn around when you went on strike during the 2022 season.
1. SAQUON BARKLEY, NEW YORK GIANTS
PFF pass-blocking grade: 75.5
Pass-blocking snaps: 83
Pressures allowed: 6
2022 NFL season's best pass-blocking running backs: Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard and more - ( New Window )
durability isn't just games played, it's workload. if they dont develop a few options behind 5'9 207 devin singletary im not sure how well the durability is going to hold up. he's also had a history of issues with fumbles.
there are reasons why he's now been on 3 teams in 3 years.
Interestingly, Buffalo has been moving towards a more run based offense the past couple years. I expect this year they run the RB's even more. Seems Beane saw the downside to trying to navigate the playoffs when you are getting beat up on the lines.
I like the RBBC but TBD if the Giants have the personnel and scheme in place. They also want to be a pass heavy offense. I see significant issues if the OL doesn't pan out as hoped.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
Personally, I like the approach. I want the passing game to be the focus and strength of the offense. I want the Giants to put all of the responsibility on Jones.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
It's hard to argue against this.
Why are we still talking about this? Are we as thin-skinned as Barkley?
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
What about people like me (I’m not the only one) who think Barkley is a really good player AND that it made sense not to sign him long term?
I know it’s a strange concept but people can actually be a fan of the player and acknowledge that the financials don’t make sense for us anymore. Crazy, right?
Why are we still talking about this? Are we as thin-skinned as Barkley?
I suppose it's better than the usual Lombardi thread Sean starts..
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
It's hard to argue against this.
John Mara probably had his hand in this. Probably refusing the trade Barkley.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
This is a fabulous observation. I have a generally positive view of Schoen, but this charade in addition to the moaning over the previous negotiation being too hard, was an embarrassing watch.
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you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.
This comparison is since 2019 (Singletary's first year in the league).
Barkley - 3/$37.75M, $26M guaranteed
Singletary - 3/$16.5M, $9.5M guaranteed
Schoen did good business here, despite Mara protesting that Barkley was our "most popular player" 🤮.
In 2022, the year of the Greatest Playoff Victory Ever (TM), Barkley was second in the league in rushing and scored 10 td's. Jones put up his typically blah passing stats. Last season, with no credible passing threats, Barkley gained 960 rushing yards and another 10 td's running and receiving. From this, it was concluded that the o-line was terrible due to pass blocking and Jones was the essential player who merited the big contract. Ok, I guess, but it wasn't the only way to go or the only conclusion that could be drawn.
I think a lot of the comments on Barkley are the result of his admittedly, too high draft choice (a Gettleman specialty) where he was expected to be "touched by the hand of God", the year he missed due to the knee injury, the current fad of not paying rb's, and ire that he has not personally saved the franchise from its serial poor decisions.
We will see if this is "good business." I have my doubts.
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In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
What about people like me (I’m not the only one) who think Barkley is a really good player AND that it made sense not to sign him long term?
I know it’s a strange concept but people can actually be a fan of the player and acknowledge that the financials don’t make sense for us anymore. Crazy, right?
This is where I am too. It was the right thing to do, but he is a really good player who will do well in Philly. Why does everything suck, and why does everything need to be black and white.
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
Agreed completely, not sure anywhere in my post where I addressed future play besides "it was the BEST move for both parties", due to all the concerns we know and mainly: why he wasn't worth us paying top dollar for.
It didnt work..
Not hating on him for getting his money.. but the whole trying to maintain his " victim " image is annoying.. You making millions.. you gonna be good regardless...
Exactly. All that Giant for life BS was just a ploy for leverage. I don't blame him for wanting to get the biggest deal possible and I won't miss him now that he is gone. Outside of his rookie year, he was often injured and not the same player we drafted, certainly not worth the #2 pick in the draft.
Given the investment in the quarterback and pass catchers over the last 3 offseasons, this all makes makes sense.
Hopefully the Giants are in the 400-425 rush attempts range, and generate that 5700-6000 yards from scrimmage they'll need to be a top 3rd offense more through the air.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.