4.5 hours before the draft Schoen calls the Patriots, and temp checks with Wolf.
Wolf says they are probably picking a QB, and it would need to be something significant for them to trade out.
Your best guess, based on the timing and the appearant state talks were at:
A) The Giants were aggressively pursuing a trade with the Pats, and they seriously wanted to pick a QB
B) They were keeping options open, and just doing due diligence in case the price was right
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IE The Patriots were not shopping the pick.
Schoen called.
The Patriots desperately needed a QB, the only way you were getting that pick was to blow them away. This should have been obvious to all.
Negotiating 101
OF course it didn't make sense, but that ain't the reason people here thought it was a possible that the Pats might be open to trading out. There were differing factions in the Pats' new-fangled front office regarding the QBs and the overall direction of the franchise, add to that the Kraft factor. Would they be content to trade back to 6 and take McCarthy with a whole lot more draft choices to add to their coffers? It was clear that the folks in the Pats' front office and their owners weren't pulling in the same direction. By the time the draft rolled around they unified and chose to take a QB that wasn't named McCarthy (either Daniels or Maye). The rumor early on was that they loved Maye, but once it became likely that the Deadskins were taking Maye at #2 overall, the issue became what the Pats' scouts thought of Maye. There were CLEARLY mixed opinions about him.
Given how the Giants have performed recently, the Patriots could have envisioned a scenario where they net top 10 picks in consecutive years, and additional compensation.
The number 6, number 47, 2025 first, and 2025 3rd for instance is a great war chest for a new coach and GM to build from.
If Schoen was ready to bet his job on a player by giving up several picks, I would think hours before the draft he would have called and had a serious package ready to offer.
It did if they were high one of the other three QBs.
I was always convinced 3 QBs were going in the 1st 3 picks (Williams, Daniels, Maye). I always felt the Giants would try to trade up for Maye, but that's mostly because I liked him lol. I really didn't think Patriots would leave this draft without a QB (how could they?) so I figured the only way they trade is for an absurd cost. And If I was to bet money I probably would have put it on the Giants drafting Odunze. I just didn't know how they felt ultimately about JJM, Nix, and Penix. They answered that question on draft day, lol.
That was definitely a soft check-in. Doing some casual due diligence just in case the Pats were eager to move down a few spots.
Not knowing the full context, and we may never know, this gives me the early impression that Schoen was not super-eager to find Jones's replacement.
Yeah, the really liked Maye, but he wasn't worth paying a premium for...
That pisses me off, but I will wait for more intel (if available).
BTW, Wolf had to know he was being recorded, right?
Due diligence - try to find out what other teams would have to give up if they were trading. Try to narrow down what was going to be there at 4-5-6.
Agreed. The first rule of drafting is that if you need a franchise QB, and can draft a potential franchise QB at your pick, then you do so and reject all trade offers. Trading that pick for anything gets you fired as a GM if the acquiring team in fact uses it to draft a franchise QB. It also probably means you never get another job as a GM.
I don’t see how you can ever overpay for a QB that is not even your QB1 in the draft class… Accorsi may have “overpaid” for Eli but he was his clear QB1
I don’t see how you can ever overpay for a QB that is not even your QB1 in the draft class… Accorsi may have “overpaid” for Eli but he was his clear QB1
Well, if your second rated QB in a draft is better than your current QB option, I think you still pull the trigger. It's worth the stretch.
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I don’t see how you can ever overpay for a QB that is not even your QB1 in the draft class… Accorsi may have “overpaid” for Eli but he was his clear QB1
Well, if your second rated QB in a draft is better than your current QB option, I think you still pull the trigger. It's worth the stretch.
Teams have to pull out all the stops and do what it takes to get their QB. Except the Patriots. They should not follow that advice and let someone else take their QB.
Due diligence - try to find out what other teams would have to give up if they were trading. Try to narrow down what was going to be there at 4-5-6.
Makes me wonder if the NYG are high on (say) Carson Beck, but (as usual win a meaningless late season game to fall just outside of where he is projected), will these guys actually try to get him? Maye to me is better than Beck and they seemingly half assed any effort to really press to get him.
In the real world, I would assume a call 4 hours pre-draft between serious people goes more like: We're prepared to make what we believe is a very fair and compelling offer ...
Team B would like to improve it's QB and checks with Team A. Team A has consistently said we need a QB but if you have a great proposal, we will listen. Team B says how does X,Y and Z sound. Team A laughs and says we will also need next years X and Z.
Team B says no, I need players too and walks away.
Just before the draft Team B calls Team A and asks if there is any chance of reconsidering the trade. Team A says no.
End of game.
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Surprised at how many on BBI thought that was a possibility.
Given how the Giants have performed recently, the Patriots could have envisioned a scenario where they net top 10 picks in consecutive years, and additional compensation.
The number 6, number 47, 2025 first, and 2025 3rd for instance is a great war chest for a new coach and GM to build from.
I believe Schoen. Jones is their guy.
Didn't Breer also report that Kraft got cold feet moving the pick with how much Daboll and KOC liked Maye?
My guess if the pick was truly for sale, Maye would be either a Giant or Viking today. He's neither.
I believe Schoen. Jones is their guy.
I've been leaning that way for a long time.
However, since HK has probably been scrubbed carefully by NYG, maybe they have edited moments of Schoen/staff expressing concerns about Jones - his actual play, not health - because they don't want to crush his confidence.
That offer is basically meeting the asking price on a house for sale in a seller's market. Sure, you might get that price, but odds are strong you are going to have to raise the ante to get the house.
In the made for TV version Schoen doesn't appear to make an offer. Four hours before the draft seems quite late to be checking on the basics.
In the made for TV version Schoen doesn't appear to make an offer. Four hours before the draft seems quite late to be checking on the basics.
I take a lot of stock in what Rico says, there was a belief a deal was going to be done around 3pm eastern time on draft day. There were other NYG podcast personalities that said they thought it was done around that time. Kraft backed off. Rickey is reporting that too.
The call in the HK trailer? That feels made for TV. During the day of the draft the wind was blowing towards NYG trading for Maye for a brief window in the afternoon.
I'm of the belief there was legit interest.
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I wonder how many times the Giants casually called teams in the top 5 about top rookie qbs when Manning was in his prime.
p.s.--When was the last time Manning finished the season on IR? Oh, never. Let alone finished four of the last five season on IR. When you have a QB with well-established durability issues and you're drafting in the top ten, you absolutely have to explore potential franchise QBs that may be available. If management had lost faith in Jones's talent, they would've been looking at QBs up and down the draft, not just the franchise variety.
Fair point about the injuries. I am aligned with a common take that Schoen and Daboll felt Jones earned himself another shot at being a franchise qb which is why he did not a franchise qb deal when he was recently re-signed. He got a deal that would both give Jones another shot while not fully committing to him. I think Schoen and Daboll are on the fence whether Jones can actually be a franchise qb without even considering a he injuries. As for the draft, how do we know they weren’t looking at other qbs as the draft unfolded, what if they did not like the (qb) prospects available in regard to the value of their picks and the other players a available?
I think Schoen possibly targeting a top prospect like Maye was telling. That indicated to me they are concerned with Jones’ ability to play qb more than they are concerned with his availability.
Either way, I don’t see Jones’ relationship with Schoen and Daboll as clear cut.
Either that or the Giants weren't ever really interested, and the Internet rumors stemmed from someone in the organization relaying the substance of that perfunctory call, and misunderstanding what that was.
Either that or the Giants weren't ever really interested, and the Internet rumors stemmed from someone in the organization relaying the substance of that perfunctory call, and misunderstanding what that was.
Based on that call Wolf wanted a strong owner and Schoen cut the call off. I certainly hope that's for the cameras. It feels way too relaxed to be real.
Another clip has Mara saying he'll have palpitations if they do this deal. Looks like HK misdirection.
The best news is that they loved Nabers and they got their guy. McCarthy was not even in discussion. It was Harrison/Nabers then Odunze then possibly Bowers. Clearly if it wasn’t QB it was an offensive weapon.
I suspect - as is usually the case - one final offer was made when the Pats were on the clock.
I believe Schoen. Jones is their guy.
You're off on this one. It's quite clear they wanted the QB and offered two #1s plus an additional pick in 2024 draft. They didn't want to give up more future assets.
Straight to the point.
I believe Schoen. Jones is their guy.
This is completely incorrect.
This is spot on
If Schoen was ready to bet his job on a player by giving up several picks, I would think hours before the draft he would have called and had a serious package ready to offer.
Exactly, especially since Mara OK'd a move like that if Schoen was convicted about it, he wasn't, and the Pats didn't really want to trade, schoen simply did his due diligence to see if he could get a sweet deal, couldn't, and moved on. Didn't seem they ever thought they could really move up or had any interest in offering more than typical market value for a QB.
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I don’t see how you can ever overpay for a QB that is not even your QB1 in the draft class… Accorsi may have “overpaid” for Eli but he was his clear QB1
Well, if your second rated QB in a draft is better than your current QB option, I think you still pull the trigger. It's worth the stretch.
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Schoen has repeatedly brought up on HK how much money they're paying Jones, and he clearly said he still believes in Jones and that even Mahomes wouldn't have succeeded behind that line.
I believe Schoen. Jones is their guy.
You're off on this one. It's quite clear they wanted the QB and offered two #1s plus an additional pick in 2024 draft. They didn't want to give up more future assets.
If they're willing to give up that much for Maye, and not even consider one of McCarthy, Penix, or Nix even at 9 after a trade down...that is a questionable assessment in my opinion. But then again these are the same people that paid Jones.
In the real world, I would assume a call 4 hours pre-draft between serious people goes more like: We're prepared to make what we believe is a very fair and compelling offer ...
The pats weren't sitting for a second staged call for hard knocks. Schoen made no offer, because, as you say, he wasn't serious. Had he been convicted, he would have. He didn't, says all that needs to be said. Nabers was the real realistic target from the beggining.