What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
That decision was mostly applauded at the time as tough negotiating. There were very few tears shed for Love. Hindsight sure, but perhaps some flexibility was warranted.
If Pinnock and Belton both looked like complete dumpster fires I think they make a stronger push to keep him. Then McKinney had another year. It wasn't vital to keep him, but would have been nice. I think they've navigated safety pretty well (if Nubin isn't a bust) despite losing two quality players. Like RB, safety contracts can be pitfalls.
If McKinney doesn't go on that ATV trip we live in a different world. He could have been extending or traded, instead they had to take the year to evaluate health. Maybe they keep Love after a trade or McKinney is extended then that 2nd can be used somewhere else.
Undervaluated smart player. Absoulutey the definition of an NFL safety. Mentored other players. I didn't want to see him go but saw Giants were moving in a different direction. He's one of those guys who probably wanted to be a Giants for life. The guy still plays balls out! Not spectacular but when you come into his area you know he's going to be in on the play.
What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
That decision was mostly applauded at the time as tough negotiating. There were very few tears shed for Love. Hindsight sure, but perhaps some flexibility was warranted.
That's not my recollection. I recall a fair amount here, myself included, were pretty surprised that Schoen didn't sign a team captain (and defensive signal caller no less) for only $6 million a year.
And the defense most certainly suffered without him, IMO.
What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
That decision was mostly applauded at the time as tough negotiating. There were very few tears shed for Love. Hindsight sure, but perhaps some flexibility was warranted.
That's not my recollection. I recall a fair amount here, myself included, were pretty surprised that Schoen didn't sign a team captain (and defensive signal caller no less) for only $6 million a year.
And the defense most certainly suffered without him, IMO.
The Giants actually offered him more than $6M but he wanted to test the market. That money then went to Darius Slayton so when he came back to the Giants after the Seahawks offer, it was too late.
And the reasoning stated or reported is even more concerning. It was supposedly because they had already allocated the money to Slayton. If the argument was there is not enough cap space then just missing the boat. Plenty of cap space if the player was worth it. And he was.
And the reasoning stated or reported is even more concerning. It was supposedly because they had already allocated the money to Slayton. If the argument was there is not enough cap space then just missing the boat. Plenty of cap space if the player was worth it. And he was.
I don't know about that. Jason Pinnock really reduced the sting. The ball bounced in the Giants favor. Pinnock was cheaper and hasn't reached his ceiling. McKinney is going to net them a 4th round comp pick. Then they got their #1 safety in the draft.
If Love was retained they would have no idea if Pinnock was any good, so they would have still used a pick on one or signed a more expensive FA.
It is a lot of turnover, and sure you never know if Nubin will work out, but they are solid as the position and cheap. I would actually like to see Pinnock get an extension now.
but to let him go for a bigger offer. Jones and SB respective contracts tied their hands once they decided to not play hard enough ball with Jones' camp.
and I'm really happy for him. It's great to see NFL players get paid. Especially players who like Love who play the game the right way on and off the field. He didn't want to leave the Giants, but it's a cap league and teams make choices.
but to let him go for a bigger offer. Jones and SB respective contracts tied their hands once they decided to not play hard enough ball with Jones' camp.
not really. they paid more for each of slayton/campbell.
they paid almost as much for ashawn and nacho.
they could have saved a lot more by cutting adoree.
it was an obvious mistake at the time to let an ascending 24 year old starter walk for the amount that journeyman typically get. the tough talk about schoen showing off his negotiating prowess was always stupid. the way to win negotiations is to get good players, not to lose them.
yeah out of every move in the 3 offseasons of schoen, this one made the least sense to me - especially knowing they had previous interest in signing love bc they negotiated with him (and even offered more than he got) in-season.
it was particularly bizarre that they said they "ran out of money" for him when he circled back because i think they signed Ashawn a few weeks later. positional value aside i dont see how they valued a guy who plays part time vs a guy who played every snap.
ive said this in a few places but i think schoen's biggest weakness is that he seems to not be great at thinking longer term. he is reactive instead of proactive. im not sure what changed in their minds between november 2022 and march 2023 than made them somewhat sour on love, but whatever it was turned out wrong and its at the top of the list of why they had a disappointing year 2.
But in terms of allocation of dollars to a defense (Especially when you consider the contracts you're going to need to give out on offense)
You don't give contracts out like that to players of his caliber.
Agreed. The safety position is akin to the running back position. Unless you have an Ed Reed-type, you can solve for safety in the draft or free agency.
Did we really miss Love last year?
Schoen was smart to let X leave this year, too, and redirect cap money to buy Burns.
yeah out of every move in the 3 offseasons of schoen, this one made the least sense to me - especially knowing they had previous interest in signing love bc they negotiated with him (and even offered more than he got) in-season.
it was particularly bizarre that they said they "ran out of money" for him when he circled back because i think they signed Ashawn a few weeks later. positional value aside i dont see how they valued a guy who plays part time vs a guy who played every snap.
ive said this in a few places but i think schoen's biggest weakness is that he seems to not be great at thinking longer term. he is reactive instead of proactive. im not sure what changed in their minds between november 2022 and march 2023 than made them somewhat sour on love, but whatever it was turned out wrong and its at the top of the list of why they had a disappointing year 2.
Strongly agree on reactive vs proactive. He's a relatively green decision maker, despite twenty years behind the NFL scenes. He fits in perfectly with NYG, Jones, et al. Spitooey.
same. would have been nice to have an extra 2nd round pick this year to spend on another corner or dl or ol or whatever.
What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
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What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
That decision was mostly applauded at the time as tough negotiating. There were very few tears shed for Love. Hindsight sure, but perhaps some flexibility was warranted.
If McKinney doesn't go on that ATV trip we live in a different world. He could have been extending or traded, instead they had to take the year to evaluate health. Maybe they keep Love after a trade or McKinney is extended then that 2nd can be used somewhere else.
For a team that doesn't have the trenches solved, I'd prefer to allocate resources there.
Undervaluated smart player. Absoulutey the definition of an NFL safety. Mentored other players. I didn't want to see him go but saw Giants were moving in a different direction. He's one of those guys who probably wanted to be a Giants for life. The guy still plays balls out! Not spectacular but when you come into his area you know he's going to be in on the play.
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In comment 16559025 cosmicj said:
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What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
That decision was mostly applauded at the time as tough negotiating. There were very few tears shed for Love. Hindsight sure, but perhaps some flexibility was warranted.
That's not my recollection. I recall a fair amount here, myself included, were pretty surprised that Schoen didn't sign a team captain (and defensive signal caller no less) for only $6 million a year.
And the defense most certainly suffered without him, IMO.
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In comment 16559093 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16559025 cosmicj said:
Quote:
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What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
That decision was mostly applauded at the time as tough negotiating. There were very few tears shed for Love. Hindsight sure, but perhaps some flexibility was warranted.
That's not my recollection. I recall a fair amount here, myself included, were pretty surprised that Schoen didn't sign a team captain (and defensive signal caller no less) for only $6 million a year.
And the defense most certainly suffered without him, IMO.
The Giants actually offered him more than $6M but he wanted to test the market. That money then went to Darius Slayton so when he came back to the Giants after the Seahawks offer, it was too late.
I don't know about that. Jason Pinnock really reduced the sting. The ball bounced in the Giants favor. Pinnock was cheaper and hasn't reached his ceiling. McKinney is going to net them a 4th round comp pick. Then they got their #1 safety in the draft.
If Love was retained they would have no idea if Pinnock was any good, so they would have still used a pick on one or signed a more expensive FA.
It is a lot of turnover, and sure you never know if Nubin will work out, but they are solid as the position and cheap. I would actually like to see Pinnock get an extension now.
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What, that he turned down a better deal with the Giants and then asked back in?
Hey, don't get in the way of him ragging on the Giants even if he's wrong. That's what's in style.
But in terms of allocation of dollars to a defense (Especially when you consider the contracts you're going to need to give out on offense)
You don't give contracts out like that to players of his caliber.
not really. they paid more for each of slayton/campbell.
they paid almost as much for ashawn and nacho.
they could have saved a lot more by cutting adoree.
it was an obvious mistake at the time to let an ascending 24 year old starter walk for the amount that journeyman typically get. the tough talk about schoen showing off his negotiating prowess was always stupid. the way to win negotiations is to get good players, not to lose them.
yeah out of every move in the 3 offseasons of schoen, this one made the least sense to me - especially knowing they had previous interest in signing love bc they negotiated with him (and even offered more than he got) in-season.
it was particularly bizarre that they said they "ran out of money" for him when he circled back because i think they signed Ashawn a few weeks later. positional value aside i dont see how they valued a guy who plays part time vs a guy who played every snap.
ive said this in a few places but i think schoen's biggest weakness is that he seems to not be great at thinking longer term. he is reactive instead of proactive. im not sure what changed in their minds between november 2022 and march 2023 than made them somewhat sour on love, but whatever it was turned out wrong and its at the top of the list of why they had a disappointing year 2.
But in terms of allocation of dollars to a defense (Especially when you consider the contracts you're going to need to give out on offense)
You don't give contracts out like that to players of his caliber.
Agreed. The safety position is akin to the running back position. Unless you have an Ed Reed-type, you can solve for safety in the draft or free agency.
Did we really miss Love last year?
Schoen was smart to let X leave this year, too, and redirect cap money to buy Burns.
Quote:
.
yeah out of every move in the 3 offseasons of schoen, this one made the least sense to me - especially knowing they had previous interest in signing love bc they negotiated with him (and even offered more than he got) in-season.
it was particularly bizarre that they said they "ran out of money" for him when he circled back because i think they signed Ashawn a few weeks later. positional value aside i dont see how they valued a guy who plays part time vs a guy who played every snap.
ive said this in a few places but i think schoen's biggest weakness is that he seems to not be great at thinking longer term. he is reactive instead of proactive. im not sure what changed in their minds between november 2022 and march 2023 than made them somewhat sour on love, but whatever it was turned out wrong and its at the top of the list of why they had a disappointing year 2.
Strongly agree on reactive vs proactive. He's a relatively green decision maker, despite twenty years behind the NFL scenes. He fits in perfectly with NYG, Jones, et al. Spitooey.