| So, within the context of that situation and the way the contract is structured, and the way last year went, yeah, I think that's a fair assessment that we need better in 2024. |
This is from the press conference today. Not sure if anyone had the chance to watch or read the transcript, but this caught my attention immediately. I don't ever recall Schoen talking about the structure of the Jones contract within these terms.
It's also the first time I'm hearing anyone from the organization call out Jones about needing to be better. This isn't McAdoo calling out Eli, but it's there. It's much more subtle, but the message is there.
The guy is playing, so there’s really no secret here. The injury guarantee only matters if you plan to sit him regardless of health.
And yet...
Trying to draft Maye says hello
I honestly don’t think that’s true. I think they could easily find excuses and ways to bring him back next season. I actually fully expect that.
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Put up or shut up. No excuses.
I honestly don’t think that’s true. I think they could easily find excuses and ways to bring him back next season. I actually fully expect that.
If that's the case they probably made the playoffs again similar to 2022. I don't see finishing 7-10 and bringing him back.
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In comment 16559078 DavidinBMNY said:
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Put up or shut up. No excuses.
I honestly don’t think that’s true. I think they could easily find excuses and ways to bring him back next season. I actually fully expect that.
If that's the case they probably made the playoffs again similar to 2022. I don't see finishing 7-10 and bringing him back.
In that scenario (the Giants finish 7-10), what's the alternative? They'll be picking around #10, I'd guess. So what do they do?
They'll feel the pressure to address QB and I don't see them paying Prescott $60M.
Is it possible they bring back Jones? Yes, definitely. I just get the sense they need him to stay healthy, be productive and win. How does that look going 7-10?
Regardless, I think this will be the last year of DJ unless he plays lights out, stays healthy and make the playoffs.
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Schoen seems to have a funny way of showing it
Trying to draft Maye says hello
Looking forward to hearing that as the losses pile up.
"Hey we tried to trade for Maye. Stop complaining."
The only way Jones gets cut is if he has a disaster of a season and stays healthy.
There’s reason the MGM book has Jones’s o/u for passing TDs at 9.5, a number he’s cleared even during the Judge years. The job is his for now, and I think the team would love for him to succeed, but the leash will be pretty short.
Throwing away years while searching for full bloom love.
We all acknowledge that drafting QBs is hard. No one can argue that. That being the case, does it seem like good policy to struggle under the weight of poor quarterbacking for years (Eli in 2015 was the last time a Giants passer could be considered even close to prolific) while waiting for the QB that's "just right"?
The QB that's "just right" probably has a 50% or better chance of flopping. After all, drafting QBs is really hard even for the smartest teams.
So taking one shot a decade on a 50/50 shot...that's the approach?
"Hey we tried to trade for Maye. Stop complaining."
I don't blame Schoen for how it transpired, but I wouldn't even categorize that as trying. That was more like thinking about it.
Sure the odds are low, but their heads might literally explode. Although they will twist themselves into a million knots trying to explain it away….
Sure the odds are low, but their heads might literally explode. Although they will twist themselves into a million knots trying to explain it away….
No knots necessary. The explanation for having a good year requires nothing short of divine intervention.
He also said, in response to that question: "So, those are conversations way down the road."
How to reconcile these comments?
They're now at a stage where they're evaluating Jones' health and recuperation day by day.
But they're not thinking every day about sitting him because of his injury guarantee. Late in the season, if the Giants are out of it, that's the "way down the road."
Sure the odds are low, but their heads might literally explode. Although they will twist themselves into a million knots trying to explain it away….
Imagine Tomon Fox wins defensive player of the year!
"Hey we tried to trade for Maye. Stop complaining."
This is going to get even more complicated for Schoen if Nix or McCarthy start and play well (I'm assuming Penix will sit for a awhile behind Cousins).
I guess he will be able to fall back and cite that in-depth analysis Daboll did looking at QBs over the last ten years drafted in the first round.
Sure the odds are low, but their heads might literally explode. Although they will twist themselves into a million knots trying to explain it away….
Some might even disappear from the site for several months.
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Schoen seems to have a funny way of showing it
Trying to draft Maye says hello
Joe Schoen’s 24 draft picks and 0 QBs selected says wasssup
To be fair, if Dak Prescott had that specific road playoff game, he would've won too.
Jones is that QB. The Giants viewed JJ, Nix and Penix as just another Jones. Why draft what you already have with the #6 pick when you can get a difference maker WR(or TE or DE)?
Yes, Schoen knows Jones sucked last year and said it, I think, to Chris Mara. I do not expect a miracle to occur. I do not think Jones will be a good QB. Would he have been better off drafting one of JJ, Nix or Penix? Not when you factor in Nabers.
Dak Prescott won a road playoff game in 2022, when he threw 4 TDs in Tampa.
To say nothing of the rest of this nonsense.
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if you don't watch the games but, instead, pour over statistics. If you actually watch the games Jones took a horrible roster, put it on his back and carried it into the playoffs in 2022. Then he won a ROAD PLAYOFF GAME something Dak Prescott has never done, despite his gaudy statistics. I learned a long time ago (Bart Starr taught it to me) that statistics don't mean shit when it comes to QB play.
Dak Prescott won a road playoff game in 2022, when he threw 4 TDs in Tampa.
To say nothing of the rest of this nonsense.
With all that talent around him and continually one of the best Olines in football, Dak did win ONE playoff game against a 8-9 Tampa.
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In comment 16559268 WillieYoung said:
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if you don't watch the games but, instead, pour over statistics. If you actually watch the games Jones took a horrible roster, put it on his back and carried it into the playoffs in 2022. Then he won a ROAD PLAYOFF GAME something Dak Prescott has never done, despite his gaudy statistics. I learned a long time ago (Bart Starr taught it to me) that statistics don't mean shit when it comes to QB play.
Dak Prescott won a road playoff game in 2022, when he threw 4 TDs in Tampa.
To say nothing of the rest of this nonsense.
With all that talent around him and continually one of the best Olines in football, Dak did win ONE playoff game against a 8-9 Tampa.
If one is going to compare Daniel Jones to a QB who is demonstrably better, one could at least be factually accurate in doing so.
Sure the odds are low, but their heads might literally explode. Although they will twist themselves into a million knots trying to explain it away….
I don't think you fully get it. I would love if DJ had a great year in 2024 because the odds are that the Giants would have a good year. Even if that happens, the Giants still need a viable plan B due to the serious injury history. I think the odds of DJ playing another 10 years are remote unless you count some years playing a few games or not at all. Serious neck injuries don't go away.
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But what’s needed is not simply improving the QB situation. The need to get to a guy who represents a long term answer. I think it’s clear they saw three such prospects in the draft but unfortunately we were outside looking in on the three, and didn’t see the others as answers. So you continue to build the team, and keep looking.
Throwing away years while searching for full bloom love.
We all acknowledge that drafting QBs is hard. No one can argue that. That being the case, does it seem like good policy to struggle under the weight of poor quarterbacking for years (Eli in 2015 was the last time a Giants passer could be considered even close to prolific) while waiting for the QB that's "just right"?
The QB that's "just right" probably has a 50% or better chance of flopping. After all, drafting QBs is really hard even for the smartest teams.
So taking one shot a decade on a 50/50 shot...that's the approach?
He did not put them on his back. Saqoun put them on his back the first 8 weeks and when Saqoun started to tail off the Giants went 4-7-1 the rest of the way.
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In comment 16559279 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16559268 WillieYoung said:
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if you don't watch the games but, instead, pour over statistics. If you actually watch the games Jones took a horrible roster, put it on his back and carried it into the playoffs in 2022. Then he won a ROAD PLAYOFF GAME something Dak Prescott has never done, despite his gaudy statistics. I learned a long time ago (Bart Starr taught it to me) that statistics don't mean shit when it comes to QB play.
Dak Prescott won a road playoff game in 2022, when he threw 4 TDs in Tampa.
To say nothing of the rest of this nonsense.
With all that talent around him and continually one of the best Olines in football, Dak did win ONE playoff game against a 8-9 Tampa.
If one is going to compare Daniel Jones to a QB who is demonstrably better, one could at least be factually accurate in doing so.
What was incorrect that I said?
Dak has been a failure in the playoffs with one of the best rosters in football, year in and year out. He has one win vs a 8-9 Tampa team that was putrid. FWIW, Jones beat a 13-4 team, which did have a bad defense, but clearly superior to Tampa.
Is Dak better than Jones? Yes in regular season play, absolutely. Dak also has had one of the best olines in football and has had tremendous weapons about him.
Would I prefer Dak to Jones? Yes. But I would not expect that great an improvement to the record. Dak is not worth $50 mill per. He is a mid-level QB, so an upgrade to Jones.
He is so afraid to make a mistake he has become the most conservative QB in the league.
He waits for guys to be absolutely wide open rather than throwing guys open or anticipating guys being open.
No excuses this year, he has weapons, OL should be better, Daboll is going to want to push the ball and if Jones doesnt do it, alock is going to be playing before we know it
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In comment 16559285 section125 said:
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In comment 16559279 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16559268 WillieYoung said:
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if you don't watch the games but, instead, pour over statistics. If you actually watch the games Jones took a horrible roster, put it on his back and carried it into the playoffs in 2022. Then he won a ROAD PLAYOFF GAME something Dak Prescott has never done, despite his gaudy statistics. I learned a long time ago (Bart Starr taught it to me) that statistics don't mean shit when it comes to QB play.
Dak Prescott won a road playoff game in 2022, when he threw 4 TDs in Tampa.
To say nothing of the rest of this nonsense.
With all that talent around him and continually one of the best Olines in football, Dak did win ONE playoff game against a 8-9 Tampa.
If one is going to compare Daniel Jones to a QB who is demonstrably better, one could at least be factually accurate in doing so.
What was incorrect that I said?
Dak has been a failure in the playoffs with one of the best rosters in football, year in and year out. He has one win vs a 8-9 Tampa team that was putrid. FWIW, Jones beat a 13-4 team, which did have a bad defense, but clearly superior to Tampa.
Is Dak better than Jones? Yes in regular season play, absolutely. Dak also has had one of the best olines in football and has had tremendous weapons about him.
Would I prefer Dak to Jones? Yes. But I would not expect that great an improvement to the record. Dak is not worth $50 mill per. He is a mid-level QB, so an upgrade to Jones.
Maybe scroll up to the comment I initially replied to in which it was proudly stated that Daniel Jones has won a road playoff game and Dak Prescott has not.
Roger Staubach had to compete for the starting job. Terry Bradshaw had to fend off competitors; Joe Montana had to win the starting job. Daniel Jones? Anointed from the start, no competition and every excuse in the book tendered since. Never seen anything like it.
Roger Staubach had to compete for the starting job. Terry Bradshaw had to fend off competitors; Joe Montana had to win the starting job. Daniel Jones? Anointed from the start, no competition and every excuse in the book tendered since. Never seen anything like it.
I was surprised they didn’t pick Michael Pratt, the QB out of Tulane, this year when he slid to the 7th round. He looks like DJ — but for a 6th round pick? Sure. Anytime.
What was incorrect that I said?
Dak has been a failure in the playoffs with one of the best rosters in football, year in and year out. He has one win vs a 8-9 Tampa team that was putrid. FWIW, Jones beat a 13-4 team, which did have a bad defense, but clearly superior to Tampa.
Is Dak better than Jones? Yes in regular season play, absolutely. Dak also has had one of the best olines in football and has had tremendous weapons about him.
Would I prefer Dak to Jones? Yes. But I would not expect that great an improvement to the record. Dak is not worth $50 mill per. He is a mid-level QB, so an upgrade to Jones.
Maybe scroll up to the comment I initially replied to in which it was proudly stated that Daniel Jones has won a road playoff game and Dak Prescott has not.
Does not answer what I asked. Since I stated that Dak did beat an awful Tampa, that part was acknowledged.
This belief that Dak is some amazing QB is just not true. IMV, he is marginally better than Jones. Take him off Dallas, and see how well he would do. His propensity to throw INTs under pressure is well documented.
For the record, I am not saying Jones is better. I am just saying Dak is a good in season QB mainly because of where he is. Put against playoff teams - meh.
There’s reason the MGM book has Jones’s o/u for passing TDs at 9.5, a number he’s cleared even during the Judge years. The job is his for now, and I think the team would love for him to succeed, but the leash will be pretty short.
I have to think that the TD O/U is based on Jones’s injury history. I don’t know how bad a healthy Jones would have to be for them to move on to Lock.
I think Schoen, reasonably and rightly, wants the best QB he can get for the Giants at a price he can afford (not just cap but other resources to get). In 2023 that was DJ. In 2024 that is DJ. In 2025 it will not be DJ unless he performs at least as well as 2022 and there are no other options.