Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
BJ Hill for Billy Price no talked about enough as one Gettleman's dumbest moves. Just so bad.
New England can have Peppers - he couldn't cover. X was an above average safety but not worth $17M per season - LOL. Plus X was sometimes a reluctant tackler. Only regret for me is not finding a way to have kept Love.
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
He’s a talented player playing on a team that has a better QB, Offensive Line, and WRs than we do. Of course he will do well. He’s not completely washed.
Pinnock has proven to be a good safety and I think equally as good as Love was for us. Peppers couldn’t cover a cold, not a bad tackler, but certainly not worth keeping around. Pinnock was a nice pick up and. Belton has been a turnover machine when he’s had opportunities to play. Nubin, although a rookie, is a smart guy and also has the ability to get turnovers. He’s also a willing tackler unlike McKinney who has had his share of missed tackles. I think we’ll be fine. We’ve also allocated dollars to other areas of the team that needed to be addressed, such as Oline!
And NE's personnel decisions are hardly something that anyone should look at as a confirmation that a player is good. They are completely clueless over there.
This site has become un-readable. They pay a guy like Simmons a million a year and people freak. Slayton gets paid peanuts people go nuts. Peppers who had been living off BJJ's high school 5 star rating gets big money and the whining starts.
makes it more difficult to buiod your team. Yes, I would have loved to keep Love. I think he was a leader of our D and a guy that would have benefited our team. But benefited how much? We need to win. That is what matters. We haven't won with Barkley. We haven't won with Love or Peppers or McKinney. It is also why premium draft picks should be used on premium positions. Once this boat gets turned around, then we can start looking at things differently.
Horseshit. What makes it difficult to build a team is slavish adherence to maxims and theories instead of reality. (ex. see Cashman, Brian).
You never know where your best players are going to pop up. If you are paying two real good safeties, maybe their talent can be utilized in ways where you don't have to spend $$$$ on so-called premium positions or perpetually draft safeties or maybe they allow you to do some things on defense that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Any trade where the direct return is one of the best players in the league, you win. There might not be 10 defenders in the league pound-for-pound as good as Lawrence.
I agree that Love is a good player, but he went to visit Seattle after the Giants had made him a nice offer. Seeing that they were probably going to lose him, it looks like the Giants gave that money to Slayton before he got back.
Anyone who wants Love to have stayed needs to say who they would have done without last year to stay under the cap.
Anyone who wants McKinney needs to say who they would not have paid this year (Eluemunor and Runyan and who? Or no trade for Burns?)
Peppers would probably mean no trade for Simmons, but you would need to find a bit more money to cover Peppers in 2023 and still more now (Simmons may be a real bargain if he plays well).
Teams face difficult situations every year under the Cap system. Losing two players like Love and McKinney is painful.
If the Giants let Jones walk after he takes the Giants to a Playoff victory and then lets him walk, who do they sign to play QB in 2023 and how much does that cost?
If the Giants let Jones walk after he takes the Giants to a Playoff victory and then lets him walk, who do they sign to play QB in 2023 and how much does that cost?
Gardner Minshew, 5.5M.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You either believe in positional value
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Who gave the slightest shit about Peppers leaving? He was a decent player for the Giants, but overpaid in '21 given his level of play pre-ACL who left for a one year "prove-it" deal for -- precisely -- the same money as the Giants just signed Simmons.
Then he proved it .. enough to cash in with a mid-tier deal.
How does this somehow reflects badly on the Giants??????
Any trade where the direct return is one of the best players in the league, you win. There might not be 10 defenders in the league pound-for-pound as good as Lawrence.
It doesn't matter if you acquire a great player if it doesn't ultimately result in the team becoming more successful. These moves don't exist in a vacuum. It's like giving Gettleman credit for changing the oil in the car after he just ran it into a brick wall.
None of the 3 were outstanding while here. They were good and sometimes less than good. Pinnock played just fine last year and they have young talent in Belton, Nubin, and don't forget Owens. If this team does not measure up, I do not believe S will be the reason why.
And, getting paid is not the same thing as playing well
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Or actually not since both Peppers and Love were under contract for the 2024 at lower commitments. Both teams chose to lock in these players services longer term. They were under no obligation to do so.
But let's be real, the alternative was using the 47th pick on a safety. I guess teams who are struggling in the trenches do that, right?
Love signed a 2/12M contract that covered the 2023 and 2024 season, which equaled 2.5% of the cumulative caps. Peppers re-signed with the Patriots for 2/9.9M or 2% of the same respective caps.
These are tiny contracts, both players outplayed and earned extensions.
The Giants used the 47th pick on a safety, while 6 of the next 10 players drafted were offensive or defensive lineman.
makes it more difficult to buiod your team. Yes, I would have loved to keep Love. I think he was a leader of our D and a guy that would have benefited our team. But benefited how much? We need to win. That is what matters. We haven't won with Barkley. We haven't won with Love or Peppers or McKinney. It is also why premium draft picks should be used on premium positions. Once this boat gets turned around, then we can start looking at things differently.
Horseshit. What makes it difficult to build a team is slavish adherence to maxims and theories instead of reality. (ex. see Cashman, Brian).
You never know where your best players are going to pop up. If you are paying two real good safeties, maybe their talent can be utilized in ways where you don't have to spend $$$$ on so-called premium positions or perpetually draft safeties or maybe they allow you to do some things on defense that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
None of them played like the game changers you are describing. Most couldn't wait for Peppers to be gone, Love looked very ordinary once McKinney got hurt, and McKinney was just OK after returning from injury until week 17 last year. I'm really not losing sleep over any these moves. And, don't forget, Love turned down a decent offer from the Giants.
Are you really happy the Giants gave Jones 82 guaranteed dollars, he sucked, then got his head and knee blow off?
Of course not -- but injuries happen, the offensive line was historically bad, and I suspect Minshew would have looked pretty bad in those six games Jones played -- particularly with the injuries/chaos in the offensive line and Barkley missing 3 games.
My comment was about the reaction that Giants fans would have had if the Giants let Jones walk in the 2023 offseason AFTER he had played well in the 2022 season and very well in winning the Minnesota playoff game. Someone else would have given Jones 35-40 million/year and -- who knows -- maybe Jones would have stayed healthy and had a good season.
Belichick is no longer running the show in NE and the picked ahead of the Giants in this past draft. They absolutely sucked. It’s far past time to stop praising every move NE makes. The days of them being smarter than everyone else are long gone…
Good for him. I didn't think he was that good here, but perhaps he's upped him game in New England. I legit don't know...I haven't watched a lot of Pats games these last couple of seasons.
Belichick is no longer running the show in NE and the picked ahead of the Giants in this past draft. They absolutely sucked. It’s far past time to stop praising every move NE makes. The days of them being smarter than everyone else are long gone…
True. Primary reason the Pats fell apart quickly without Brady is Bill’s drafts sucked for several years
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
Can't disagree there, coupled with not signing Jones to the 5th year, (If he had we'd have a new QB now)and he has made some bad, or questionable moves. He, like Jones, needs to do better. Country mouse ain't as slick as he thinks he is.
You put values on players and when they surpass those values
You have to let them go. I can’t fault Schoen for letting players get overpaid elsewhere. I was a big Julian Love fan and McKinney fan but it was not worth signing them to big money. Love also wanted out, he thought he was worth more to the Giants.
I can get on him for the lack of value we have gotten in FA. It’s a mixed bag.
Anyone getting on Schoen for not signing Barkley is crazy. Barkleys history shows it’s a big risk to think he is going to have multiple great seasons. He only had 2 out of 6 with the Giants. Even if he has a successful stint in Philly it was not worth the gamble.
RE: RE: The safety position has been botched by JS
I was very happy to be rid of him and the unproven post-Belichick Patriots throwing money at him doesn't change my mind at all.
We both know damn well that if the Giants had kept Love or Peppers then we would be watching the same people complain about how well Slaton is doing with their new team. It's always hindsight 20-20 with some posters.
Peppers is a solid system safety who found a good landing spot. Good for him but his production with the Giants was replaceable and in my mind, already has been.
Now Love is both a good player and backfield leader, however, he wanted to test the open market and by the time he came back to the Giants, they had already used the money offered to him to sign other players. A year later, his market corrected itself and he is getting similar money to the Giants' offer. Probably with better guarantees so again, good for him.
I'm not going to pretend their situations were mishandled just to so I can have something new to complain about.
(Instead, I'm going to complain about the complaining about this so that I have something new to complain about.)
We haven’t even gotten to the first exhibition game and the hand-wringing is already out in force!
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
They offered more than what Love got from Seattle durong the bye week and Love said no..
Pinnovk who is a more than good safety they got off the scrap heap..
Belton was drsfted in the 4th round and has shown glimpses
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
BJ Hill for Billy Price no talked about enough as one Gettleman's dumbest moves. Just so bad.
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
Quote:
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
He’s a talented player playing on a team that has a better QB, Offensive Line, and WRs than we do. Of course he will do well. He’s not completely washed.
Did you watch him play while he was here?
And NE's personnel decisions are hardly something that anyone should look at as a confirmation that a player is good. They are completely clueless over there.
We haven’t even gotten to the first exhibition game and the hand-wringing is already out in force!
People were predicting doom and gloom after Eluemunor got a boo-boo 7 weeks before the start of the season.
This site has become un-readable. They pay a guy like Simmons a million a year and people freak. Slayton gets paid peanuts people go nuts. Peppers who had been living off BJJ's high school 5 star rating gets big money and the whining starts.
You never know where your best players are going to pop up. If you are paying two real good safeties, maybe their talent can be utilized in ways where you don't have to spend $$$$ on so-called premium positions or perpetually draft safeties or maybe they allow you to do some things on defense that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
Quote:
or you don't.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
yup.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Since the Beckham trade -
Cleveland Browns: Rec 43-40, two playoff appearances with one win.
New York Giants: Rec 29-53-1, one playoff appearance with one win.
Nobody "won" this trade, let alone by any kind of wide margin.
Anyone who wants Love to have stayed needs to say who they would have done without last year to stay under the cap.
Anyone who wants McKinney needs to say who they would not have paid this year (Eluemunor and Runyan and who? Or no trade for Burns?)
Peppers would probably mean no trade for Simmons, but you would need to find a bit more money to cover Peppers in 2023 and still more now (Simmons may be a real bargain if he plays well).
Teams face difficult situations every year under the Cap system. Losing two players like Love and McKinney is painful.
I'll take Love and keep my boy Slayton please. And the ghost of Bobby McCain can throw in a few bucks.
Gardner Minshew, 5.5M.
Quote:
or you don't.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Then he proved it .. enough to cash in with a mid-tier deal.
How does this somehow reflects badly on the Giants??????
It doesn't matter if you acquire a great player if it doesn't ultimately result in the team becoming more successful. These moves don't exist in a vacuum. It's like giving Gettleman credit for changing the oil in the car after he just ran it into a brick wall.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Or actually not since both Peppers and Love were under contract for the 2024 at lower commitments. Both teams chose to lock in these players services longer term. They were under no obligation to do so.
But let's be real, the alternative was using the 47th pick on a safety. I guess teams who are struggling in the trenches do that, right?
But not paying the UFA S's was the right strategy. Good players, but not the correct allocation of resources when you're struggling in the trenches.
These are tiny contracts, both players outplayed and earned extensions.
The Giants used the 47th pick on a safety, while 6 of the next 10 players drafted were offensive or defensive lineman.
Are you really happy the Giants gave Jones 82 guaranteed dollars, he sucked, then got his head and knee blow off?
Now it feels like guys are getting better when they leave. Love, Peppers, Hernandez, Zeitler, Engram, Tomlinson, BJ Hill..probably missing a few more
I’m sure that Saquon, McKinney, and Bredeson will all join this list soon enough..
Quote:
makes it more difficult to buiod your team. Yes, I would have loved to keep Love. I think he was a leader of our D and a guy that would have benefited our team. But benefited how much? We need to win. That is what matters. We haven't won with Barkley. We haven't won with Love or Peppers or McKinney. It is also why premium draft picks should be used on premium positions. Once this boat gets turned around, then we can start looking at things differently.
Horseshit. What makes it difficult to build a team is slavish adherence to maxims and theories instead of reality. (ex. see Cashman, Brian).
You never know where your best players are going to pop up. If you are paying two real good safeties, maybe their talent can be utilized in ways where you don't have to spend $$$$ on so-called premium positions or perpetually draft safeties or maybe they allow you to do some things on defense that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
Quote:
Are you really happy the Giants gave Jones 82 guaranteed dollars, he sucked, then got his head and knee blow off?
Of course not -- but injuries happen, the offensive line was historically bad, and I suspect Minshew would have looked pretty bad in those six games Jones played -- particularly with the injuries/chaos in the offensive line and Barkley missing 3 games.
My comment was about the reaction that Giants fans would have had if the Giants let Jones walk in the 2023 offseason AFTER he had played well in the 2022 season and very well in winning the Minnesota playoff game. Someone else would have given Jones 35-40 million/year and -- who knows -- maybe Jones would have stayed healthy and had a good season.
yes, i would have been ecstatic.
don’t speak for others if you don’t have an accurate read on the room.
True. Primary reason the Pats fell apart quickly without Brady is Bill’s drafts sucked for several years
Quote:
yes, i would have been ecstatic.
don’t speak for others if you don’t have an accurate read on the room.
I did not. I asked a question.
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
+1. I support Schoen but this is starting to look like Reese’s work with the DTs.
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
I can get on him for the lack of value we have gotten in FA. It’s a mixed bag.
Anyone getting on Schoen for not signing Barkley is crazy. Barkleys history shows it’s a big risk to think he is going to have multiple great seasons. He only had 2 out of 6 with the Giants. Even if he has a successful stint in Philly it was not worth the gamble.
Quote:
two homegrown kids.
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
+1. I support Schoen but this is starting to look like Reese’s work with the DTs.
We both know damn well that if the Giants had kept Love or Peppers then we would be watching the same people complain about how well Slaton is doing with their new team. It's always hindsight 20-20 with some posters.
Peppers is a solid system safety who found a good landing spot. Good for him but his production with the Giants was replaceable and in my mind, already has been.
Now Love is both a good player and backfield leader, however, he wanted to test the open market and by the time he came back to the Giants, they had already used the money offered to him to sign other players. A year later, his market corrected itself and he is getting similar money to the Giants' offer. Probably with better guarantees so again, good for him.
I'm not going to pretend their situations were mishandled just to so I can have something new to complain about.
(Instead, I'm going to complain about the complaining about this so that I have something new to complain about.)