3 good safeties and we kept none of them....sorry but the prospects of Belton or Pinnock turning out these 3 ex-Giants level is low. Nubin is a rookie, we'll see.....I can understand not paying X 17m a year but Love and Peppers got fair deals
makes it more difficult to buiod your team. Yes, I would have loved to keep Love. I think he was a leader of our D and a guy that would have benefited our team. But benefited how much? We need to win. That is what matters. We haven't won with Barkley. We haven't won with Love or Peppers or McKinney. It is also why premium draft picks should be used on premium positions. Once this boat gets turned around, then we can start looking at things differently.
3 good safeties and we kept none of them....sorry but the prospects of Belton or Pinnock turning out these 3 ex-Giants level is low. Nubin is a rookie, we'll see.....I can understand not paying X 17m a year but Love and Peppers got fair deals
I don't agree with this at all. Pinnock was totally fine last year and all Belton has ever done when played was force turnovers. Add Nubin and I'm pretty content with this trio and the costs associated.
3 good safeties and we kept none of them....sorry but the prospects of Belton or Pinnock turning out these 3 ex-Giants level is low. Nubin is a rookie, we'll see.....I can understand not paying X 17m a year but Love and Peppers got fair deals
I'll give you McKinney and Love being good... but Peppers sucks.
3 good safeties and we kept none of them....sorry but the prospects of Belton or Pinnock turning out these 3 ex-Giants level is low. Nubin is a rookie, we'll see.....I can understand not paying X 17m a year but Love and Peppers got fair deals
You wanted to pay Peppers directly after he tore his ACL?
Peppers is a good player, and I'm genuinely curious how he looks post-Belichick. Bill has made a lot of unheralded DB's look better than they are.
I liked how Pinnock looked last year and Nubin, while a rookie, is a really good prospect.
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Offered money to spend on Love. More than what Seattle offered, if I recall correctly.
I felt Love wanted away from NY and went as far as mentioning the income tax as a reason.
That's not true. During the season the Giants offered more than what he ultimately got in Seattle. His team wanted to get to FA. When FA came, Love got an offer from Seattle and went back to the Giants. By that time, they spent money and weren't going as high as they did during the season. Love wanted to be back. It didn't work out.
makes it more difficult to buiod your team. Yes, I would have loved to keep Love. I think he was a leader of our D and a guy that would have benefited our team. But benefited how much? We need to win. That is what matters. We haven't won with Barkley. We haven't won with Love or Peppers or McKinney. It is also why premium draft picks should be used on premium positions. Once this boat gets turned around, then we can start looking at things differently.
Hard to disagree with this even if the truth hurts a little bit.
I just wish they had one good vet S back there. It's scary that the unit we hope will carry the day really lost more players than it gained this off-season. Sure we gained Burns but losing McKinney and Leonard Williams...how much better is this D really going to be. I guess the DC is an upgrade. HE better be.
Gettleman on an individual basis did pretty well scouting college players. Peppers fits in there to me as he was a 2nd year player, I assume he had scouted in the draft process.
His fatal flaws were coaching hires, older veteran acquisitions, and team construction.
Gettleman was a perfect promoted to the level of his incompetence manager.
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
Love was actually offered more by the Giants, an offer he rejected. The Giants spent their available money elsewhere, and Love signed for LESS with Seattle.
and he seemed like a great team player. Giants drafts did get a bit better in recent years and they let some talent leave.
It was clear the fronts (OL/front 7) were already falling off and they would bottom out in '13. FA also fell off when he left. Already had the QB and HC and he was much more in line with TC's vision of team building. I wonder how Dave would have done had he been promoted.
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
BJ Hill for Billy Price no talked about enough as one Gettleman's dumbest moves. Just so bad.
New England can have Peppers - he couldn't cover. X was an above average safety but not worth $17M per season - LOL. Plus X was sometimes a reluctant tackler. Only regret for me is not finding a way to have kept Love.
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
He’s a talented player playing on a team that has a better QB, Offensive Line, and WRs than we do. Of course he will do well. He’s not completely washed.
Pinnock has proven to be a good safety and I think equally as good as Love was for us. Peppers couldn’t cover a cold, not a bad tackler, but certainly not worth keeping around. Pinnock was a nice pick up and. Belton has been a turnover machine when he’s had opportunities to play. Nubin, although a rookie, is a smart guy and also has the ability to get turnovers. He’s also a willing tackler unlike McKinney who has had his share of missed tackles. I think we’ll be fine. We’ve also allocated dollars to other areas of the team that needed to be addressed, such as Oline!
And NE's personnel decisions are hardly something that anyone should look at as a confirmation that a player is good. They are completely clueless over there.
This site has become un-readable. They pay a guy like Simmons a million a year and people freak. Slayton gets paid peanuts people go nuts. Peppers who had been living off BJJ's high school 5 star rating gets big money and the whining starts.
makes it more difficult to buiod your team. Yes, I would have loved to keep Love. I think he was a leader of our D and a guy that would have benefited our team. But benefited how much? We need to win. That is what matters. We haven't won with Barkley. We haven't won with Love or Peppers or McKinney. It is also why premium draft picks should be used on premium positions. Once this boat gets turned around, then we can start looking at things differently.
Horseshit. What makes it difficult to build a team is slavish adherence to maxims and theories instead of reality. (ex. see Cashman, Brian).
You never know where your best players are going to pop up. If you are paying two real good safeties, maybe their talent can be utilized in ways where you don't have to spend $$$$ on so-called premium positions or perpetually draft safeties or maybe they allow you to do some things on defense that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Any trade where the direct return is one of the best players in the league, you win. There might not be 10 defenders in the league pound-for-pound as good as Lawrence.
I agree that Love is a good player, but he went to visit Seattle after the Giants had made him a nice offer. Seeing that they were probably going to lose him, it looks like the Giants gave that money to Slayton before he got back.
Anyone who wants Love to have stayed needs to say who they would have done without last year to stay under the cap.
Anyone who wants McKinney needs to say who they would not have paid this year (Eluemunor and Runyan and who? Or no trade for Burns?)
Peppers would probably mean no trade for Simmons, but you would need to find a bit more money to cover Peppers in 2023 and still more now (Simmons may be a real bargain if he plays well).
Teams face difficult situations every year under the Cap system. Losing two players like Love and McKinney is painful.
If the Giants let Jones walk after he takes the Giants to a Playoff victory and then lets him walk, who do they sign to play QB in 2023 and how much does that cost?
If the Giants let Jones walk after he takes the Giants to a Playoff victory and then lets him walk, who do they sign to play QB in 2023 and how much does that cost?
Gardner Minshew, 5.5M.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You either believe in positional value
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Who gave the slightest shit about Peppers leaving? He was a decent player for the Giants, but overpaid in '21 given his level of play pre-ACL who left for a one year "prove-it" deal for -- precisely -- the same money as the Giants just signed Simmons.
Then he proved it .. enough to cash in with a mid-tier deal.
How does this somehow reflects badly on the Giants??????
Any trade where the direct return is one of the best players in the league, you win. There might not be 10 defenders in the league pound-for-pound as good as Lawrence.
It doesn't matter if you acquire a great player if it doesn't ultimately result in the team becoming more successful. These moves don't exist in a vacuum. It's like giving Gettleman credit for changing the oil in the car after he just ran it into a brick wall.
None of the 3 were outstanding while here. They were good and sometimes less than good. Pinnock played just fine last year and they have young talent in Belton, Nubin, and don't forget Owens. If this team does not measure up, I do not believe S will be the reason why.
And, getting paid is not the same thing as playing well
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Or actually not since both Peppers and Love were under contract for the 2024 at lower commitments. Both teams chose to lock in these players services longer term. They were under no obligation to do so.
But let's be real, the alternative was using the 47th pick on a safety. I guess teams who are struggling in the trenches do that, right?
Peppers couldn't cover a RB.
I don't agree with this at all. Pinnock was totally fine last year and all Belton has ever done when played was force turnovers. Add Nubin and I'm pretty content with this trio and the costs associated.
Wouldn't copy their personnel moves.
I'll give you McKinney and Love being good... but Peppers sucks.
You wanted to pay Peppers directly after he tore his ACL?
Peppers is a good player, and I'm genuinely curious how he looks post-Belichick. Bill has made a lot of unheralded DB's look better than they are.
I liked how Pinnock looked last year and Nubin, while a rookie, is a really good prospect.
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
I felt Love wanted away from NY and went as far as mentioning the income tax as a reason.
I felt Love wanted away from NY and went as far as mentioning the income tax as a reason.
That's not true. During the season the Giants offered more than what he ultimately got in Seattle. His team wanted to get to FA. When FA came, Love got an offer from Seattle and went back to the Giants. By that time, they spent money and weren't going as high as they did during the season. Love wanted to be back. It didn't work out.
Hard to disagree with this even if the truth hurts a little bit.
I just wish they had one good vet S back there. It's scary that the unit we hope will carry the day really lost more players than it gained this off-season. Sure we gained Burns but losing McKinney and Leonard Williams...how much better is this D really going to be. I guess the DC is an upgrade. HE better be.
His fatal flaws were coaching hires, older veteran acquisitions, and team construction.
Gettleman was a perfect promoted to the level of his incompetence manager.
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
Love was actually offered more by the Giants, an offer he rejected. The Giants spent their available money elsewhere, and Love signed for LESS with Seattle.
I fail to see where JS made a mistake.
It was clear the fronts (OL/front 7) were already falling off and they would bottom out in '13. FA also fell off when he left. Already had the QB and HC and he was much more in line with TC's vision of team building. I wonder how Dave would have done had he been promoted.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
We haven’t even gotten to the first exhibition game and the hand-wringing is already out in force!
Love let go since they wanted to pay X. Then X let go because he's too expensive.
Great. Now spend a premium pick on another safety when there is a litany of other needs. Terrible work.
They offered more than what Love got from Seattle durong the bye week and Love said no..
Pinnovk who is a more than good safety they got off the scrap heap..
Belton was drsfted in the 4th round and has shown glimpses
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
BJ Hill for Billy Price no talked about enough as one Gettleman's dumbest moves. Just so bad.
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
Quote:
Of former Giants that got PAID or are doing welll Elsewhere
Saquon Barkley
Xavier McKinney
Julian Love
Jabrill Peppers
Evan Engram
Wil Hernandez
BJ Hill
I understand that you can’t pay everyone but all those guys are thriving elsewhere. It’s disappointing, especially when the team has been so terrible for so long.
Barkley is doing well elsewhere? He hasn't played in a game for the Eagles yet.
He’s a talented player playing on a team that has a better QB, Offensive Line, and WRs than we do. Of course he will do well. He’s not completely washed.
Did you watch him play while he was here?
And NE's personnel decisions are hardly something that anyone should look at as a confirmation that a player is good. They are completely clueless over there.
We haven’t even gotten to the first exhibition game and the hand-wringing is already out in force!
People were predicting doom and gloom after Eluemunor got a boo-boo 7 weeks before the start of the season.
This site has become un-readable. They pay a guy like Simmons a million a year and people freak. Slayton gets paid peanuts people go nuts. Peppers who had been living off BJJ's high school 5 star rating gets big money and the whining starts.
You never know where your best players are going to pop up. If you are paying two real good safeties, maybe their talent can be utilized in ways where you don't have to spend $$$$ on so-called premium positions or perpetually draft safeties or maybe they allow you to do some things on defense that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
Quote:
or you don't.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
yup.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Since the Beckham trade -
Cleveland Browns: Rec 43-40, two playoff appearances with one win.
New York Giants: Rec 29-53-1, one playoff appearance with one win.
Nobody "won" this trade, let alone by any kind of wide margin.
Anyone who wants Love to have stayed needs to say who they would have done without last year to stay under the cap.
Anyone who wants McKinney needs to say who they would not have paid this year (Eluemunor and Runyan and who? Or no trade for Burns?)
Peppers would probably mean no trade for Simmons, but you would need to find a bit more money to cover Peppers in 2023 and still more now (Simmons may be a real bargain if he plays well).
Teams face difficult situations every year under the Cap system. Losing two players like Love and McKinney is painful.
I'll take Love and keep my boy Slayton please. And the ghost of Bobby McCain can throw in a few bucks.
Gardner Minshew, 5.5M.
Quote:
or you don't.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Then he proved it .. enough to cash in with a mid-tier deal.
How does this somehow reflects badly on the Giants??????
It doesn't matter if you acquire a great player if it doesn't ultimately result in the team becoming more successful. These moves don't exist in a vacuum. It's like giving Gettleman credit for changing the oil in the car after he just ran it into a brick wall.
Peppers signed with New England on a 1 year 2M deal after his departure. Do you think that fit into the positional value band for Schoen?
Do you think that has any relevance now? He was coming off an ACL. The relevant number now is the contract he just signed.
When you’re a WIP in the trenches like the Giants are, they are correct not paying S’s right now.
Of course it does. The last time the Giants had an opportunity to bid on his services was following the 2022 season.
The terms he agreed to as part of an extension while under contract with another team are completely irrelevant. The Giants had no opportunity to offer him an extension today, because he's not on the team.
Signing Peppers to 1/2M would have been an expression of assigning low value to the safety position for the 2022 season. It was a low risk high reward acquisition for the Patriots that worked out well.
He played really well in 2022, and then really well in 2023. And was very cheap.
Yes and then they would've had to re-sign him at the numbers in the OP, which would have been a dumb move. Welcome to current day.
Or actually not since both Peppers and Love were under contract for the 2024 at lower commitments. Both teams chose to lock in these players services longer term. They were under no obligation to do so.
But let's be real, the alternative was using the 47th pick on a safety. I guess teams who are struggling in the trenches do that, right?
But not paying the UFA S's was the right strategy. Good players, but not the correct allocation of resources when you're struggling in the trenches.