Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
This has the makings to be as bad as the Jones contract
Tua is one concussion away from retirement. Also last season was the first time that he's played a full season. Another concern is that Tua looks very average when he doesn't have Tyreek Hill taking his short 8 yard passes and turning them into a 60 yard gain.
Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
someone cheaper and shittier, but there will be less embittered jealousy since it wont be an "overpay".
Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
predicting skylar thompson to be anything close to tua is delusional
he was a 7th round pick who in his only limited action, while in the same mcdaniels offense, has thrown more than twice as many picks as TDs and completed only about 50% of his 150 passes.
to expect that there are more than a handful of backup QBs in the NFL who could go into any situation and play as well as any starter, let alone a top 1/3 starter, is just insane.
That is bold move for an oft injured, noodle arm QB.
First, Miami misses on Herbert and now they compound that problem by this massive overpay.
Injury concern is legit, but hell no one bats an eye at Burrow's injury history nor Rodgers. But 4600+ yds, nearly 30 TDs and nearly 70% completion percentage is great production. Even with a noodle arm lol. Montana also had a not so strong arm and produced big time.
I rarely bemoan these guys getting paid. Especially QBs as it is a given that if they can walk and chew gum at the same time, then they are getting paid and will have endless opps to make money. That's what the league has become.
Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
What about his 100 pass attempts has locked you into him giving the Dolphins
“most of what Tua does”?
Only on this board can any old player wake up and throw for 5000 yards and 30 TDs.
We should be leaving within two years, so good luck carrying the torch on our behalf in 2026!
Every time a team pays a non legendary QB this shit gets thrown around. People need to get used to how much QBs are getting paid. QB hell my ass. They have a good offense with Tua leading the way.
You either pay the QB or you don't pay the QB. Good luck building and sustaining a contender without paying the good and even somewhat imperfect VET QB. Go with the kid over and over again and see how far that takes you.
You either have an elite quarterback or you don't. If you do, you pay him top of market. If you don't you quickly pivot and move on. The Tua's, Prescotts, etc are being paid like they are elite and they aren't. They will never win a championship and will just create locker room resentment and force a brutally unbalanced cap situation. The idea that the Cowboys are hemming and hawing on Parsons and Lamb to appease Dak could not be more off base in the salary cap era.
“They will never win a championship” is a prediction not at all a fact. Save it. Guys like Kerry Collins got to a Super Bowl and got two 2 conference title games. Guys like Trent dilfer won a Super Bowl. Doug Williams did too. Rypien. Simms. Shit even Kurt Warner counts as he was a nobody until he wasn’t.
Don’t tell me guys who play well in the regular season can’t win a title when history is littered with evidence that they can and do quite often.
Eli manning was a slob until be wasn’t. Millions of people ended up looking like fools when all is said n done. Good players peak and valley all the time. Some peak at the right time. Some don’t.
Is better phrased as you bite a bullet that likely kills the front office if you don’t hit a double or triple in the looming draft and god help you if the qb target isn’t available. Pivot and move on sounds so simple yet no one does it.
Can anyone give an example of pivoting and moving on
with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
And the skins regret that decision or at least they should. They’d have more division titles and or playoff appearances these last 5 or so seasons if they kept cousins. They draft the guy then FT him like idiots. Twice I believe? Then he walks…
Playoff appearances matter. It’s the only way to step in shit and wind up alive in February. I can’t take these fans that say it’s NFL title or bust. It’s not. It’s playoffs or bust.
RE: Can anyone give an example of pivoting and moving on
with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
But the franchise tag ( if played on all year) all but guarantees that player is leaving next season. I said this very thing when Barkley was tagged last season or at least feared it.
if the Dolphins wanted to keep Tua long-term, they ain’t franchise tagging him.
RE: RE: Can anyone give an example of pivoting and moving on
with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes might be the best example but I don’t think Smith is as good as Tua.
Yep, this is a good example, but I should’ve added before that sure you can pivot and move on if you have a hotshot first round pick waiting in the wings. That’s a huge distinction.
RE: RE: Can anyone give an example of pivoting and moving on
with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
Wentz was hot trash though and Philly knew it. Goff was traded for a (better) QB.
Maybe I should have clarified the pivot comment but I assumed the pivot meant to just cut bait even if there’s no viable alternative. Who the heck is Miami going with the QB right now.
if you can plan ahead and draft the Young QB and nurture him and watch him practice for a year or so before you possibly cut a capable starter, more power to you. It might be easy to implement that kind of strategy but it doesn’t always pay off. I mean, we’ve seen teams try to do that but then get gun shy because the guy they drafted, Trey Lance, wasn’t ready. It’s a good strategy, but it comes with a cost as well. And risk.
You basically have to have a pretty rock solid plan in place to cut a good QB.
with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
Already said no cousins and they didn’t get better when he left. Wentz got hurt. Goff got a second contract from LAR. So these example either don’t fit the criteria or didn’t work.
Ultimately because Brian Flores nearly ruined him with his awful staffing decisions. Never once had stability on the offensive staff or its players.
he actually played pretty well his 2nd year w/ flores. that was pre-hill and waddle as rookie so it wasnt explosive but he was pretty efficient.
They had two OC's and neither called plays. He found himself in great spot right now, so I am happy for him as a player.
im not saying the situation wasnt screwed up, just that he did pretty well despite it. he went 7-1 to finish that season when he came back from injuries. they were 8-4 in games he finished.
with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
They pivoted off Goff after they gave him a huge deal.
Washington tried signing Cousins, and he told them to fuck off and took the tag options instead. There was no pivoting there, they were left with egg in their face and continued to suck.
So many on BBI thought Baltimore would move on from Jackson and find that replacement that’s apparently so easy to do and they didn’t either. They caved to his demands as they should have. They may or may not win a title with him, but they will be in the running for one every year he’s healthy, and I suspect Miami will too.
What’s the alternative anyway, just wait until Mahomes/Allen/Herbert etc all retire? If Tua stinks or gets hurt they will take it on the chin for a year or two and move on. Their window is right now and they are going for it, makes perfect sense.
he did really good that game handing off the Henry. He was never getting paid there.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
If you don’t have Mahones or Allen - dump your QB and try again in 4 years.
Crazy…
this is of course hyperbolic and extreme but reality is in the past 21 years, just 11 QB's have won Super Bowls and that includes Foles.
There is some wisdom in making that QB replacement decision vs making a massive contract commitment to a QB you probably aren't going to win a Super Bowl with. It's not simple to make that decision and to be right about it, but being wrong about it is more costly. Brady and Mahomes alone account for 8 of the 21. Shit, 5 QB's (Eli (2), Peyton (2), Brady (5), Mahomes (3) and Ben (2)) account for 14 of the 21 SB wins.
We should be leaving within two years, so good luck carrying the torch on our behalf in 2026!
Every time a team pays a non legendary QB this shit gets thrown around. People need to get used to how much QBs are getting paid. QB hell my ass. They have a good offense with Tua leading the way.
You either pay the QB or you don't pay the QB. Good luck building and sustaining a contender without paying the good and even somewhat imperfect VET QB. Go with the kid over and over again and see how far that takes you.
Define contender. Not sure I'd put Miami in there. Getting knocked out of the payoffs early ever year? How many times has Miami. Made it or made it last rd 1 inthe last 5. His concussion history scares me more than his ability level.
Teams are screwed. They keep over paying and not winning. Doesn't bother me mat all. Good for the QBs. But it's bad for football
he did really good that game handing off the Henry. He was never getting paid there.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Endless denial, excuses and rationalizations. And FYI, DJ will be here next year so pivoting from an idiotic contract it is not as easy as you suggest. The Giants will be firmly entrenched in QB hell for at least another year.
And there was nothing obvious about pivoting from Mariota. He single handedly won that playoff game in 2017 bringing the Titans back with three second half touchdowns against Andy Reid and the Chiefs in Alex Smith's final game for KC. It was an incredible game for Mariota. And Mariota's career has been significantly better than that of DJ's in just about every meaningful career stat. The Titans were simply smart enough to pivot at the right time.
Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
You don't know that and neither does Miami. Skyler Thompson?? Take a look at 2022 and compare him to Tua. Please; it's not even close.
Tua had 5 games last season with over 300 yards and 4 with 3 or more td passes. He's a prolific passer in that offense.
You guys piss on Goff all the time. Well, he's thrown for 4500 yards 4 times in an 8 year career. He's headed two losing seasons: his first year with the Rams and his first year in Detroit. Since his rookie year, Goff has averaged over 4000 yards and 26 td's a year. Goff is a really, really good qb.
I think some of you have watched shitty qb'ing for so long that you have forgotten what a good qb looks like.
he did really good that game handing off the Henry. He was never getting paid there.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Endless denial, excuses and rationalizations. And FYI, DJ will be here next year so pivoting from an idiotic contract it is not as easy as you suggest. The Giants will be firmly entrenched in QB hell for at least another year.
And there was nothing obvious about pivoting from Mariota. He single handedly won that playoff game in 2017 bringing the Titans back with three second half touchdowns against Andy Reid and the Chiefs in Alex Smith's final game for KC. It was an incredible game for Mariota. And Mariota's career has been significantly better than that of DJ's in just about every meaningful career stat. The Titans were simply smart enough to pivot at the right time.
Everything in your first paragraph is completely made up. And whether or not we move on from Jones is irrelevant - we can and that’s the point. Try to stay on task, I didn’t bring Jones up at all and don’t care to, it’s a Tua thread.
he did really good that game handing off the Henry. He was never getting paid there.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Endless denial, excuses and rationalizations. And FYI, DJ will be here next year so pivoting from an idiotic contract it is not as easy as you suggest. The Giants will be firmly entrenched in QB hell for at least another year.
And there was nothing obvious about pivoting from Mariota. He single handedly won that playoff game in 2017 bringing the Titans back with three second half touchdowns against Andy Reid and the Chiefs in Alex Smith's final game for KC. It was an incredible game for Mariota. And Mariota's career has been significantly better than that of DJ's in just about every meaningful career stat. The Titans were simply smart enough to pivot at the right time.
Everything in your first paragraph is completely made up. And whether or not we move on from Jones is irrelevant - we can and that’s the point. Try to stay on task, I didn’t bring Jones up at all and don’t care to, it’s a Tua thread.
Try reading the last sentence in your previous message slick.
and the Giants being in QB hell, guess you missed all those posts.
Also, might want to look at Mariota as a whole in his 3rd season where he won his playoff game, it was largely game management which got worse the next year too, and it was an obvious choice to no pay him.
if you stopped trying to be the way that you are you’d know I don’t defend the DJ contract and was a fan of moving on. In addition, we can absolutely move on from him if we choose to, much more easily than a team with a good QB can turn down an extension. That’s the point, whether the Giants do it is irrelevent to my argument.
And Mariota scored less TDs, turned the ball over more, and his offense scored less points in 2017 than the Giants did in 2022. He wasn’t good, and got worse the following year when it was contract time. This conversation is about good QBs.
if you stopped trying to be the way that you are you’d know I don’t defend the DJ contract and was a fan of moving on. In addition, we can absolutely move on from him if we choose to, much more easily than a team with a good QB can turn down an extension. That’s the point, whether the Giants do it is irrelevent to my argument.
And Mariota scored less TDs, turned the ball over more, and his offense scored less points in 2017 than the Giants did in 2022. He wasn’t good, and got worse the following year when it was contract time. This conversation is about good QBs.
I never saw your first question. I was responding to Sean's question about pivoting from a quarterback who had won a playoff game. The narrow definition you provide excludes all answers so it is an exercise in pedantry. You simply have to pivot as soon as you realize that the talent isn't commensurate with winning a championship. Seattle pivoting from Russell Wilson was just as smart as the Eagles pivoting from Carson Wentz and the Bears pivoting from Mitchell Trubisky. You don't cling to dumb mistakes in assessing quarterback talent like Linus sucking his thumb and clinging to his security blanket.
Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
You don't know that and neither does Miami. Skyler Thompson?? Take a look at 2022 and compare him to Tua. Please; it's not even close.
Tua had 5 games last season with over 300 yards and 4 with 3 or more td passes. He's a prolific passer in that offense.
You guys piss on Goff all the time. Well, he's thrown for 4500 yards 4 times in an 8 year career. He's headed two losing seasons: his first year with the Rams and his first year in Detroit. Since his rookie year, Goff has averaged over 4000 yards and 26 td's a year. Goff is a really, really good qb.
I think some of you have watched shitty qb'ing for so long that you have forgotten what a good qb looks like.
You can’t look at numbers in a vacuum. Goff puts up wins and stats when he has talent around him. When guys were getting hurt he was not as productive. Miami has multiple elite WR’s, a running game, and a great offensive mind. This is the type of situation where you don’t overpay for a limited QB because they won games. That is precisely why the Giants signed Daniel Jones and look how that has worked out.
Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
What about his 100 pass attempts has locked you into him giving the Dolphins
“most of what Tua does”?
Only on this board can any old player wake up and throw for 5000 yards and 30 TDs.
The key is not whether Skylar Thompson can, it's whether someone like Andy Dalton can.
to save a buck and lead them to the promise land? Why not a 40 year old Flacco while we’re at it?
Can you say with a straight face that Tua is a top 5 QB in this league? That's how he's being paid. And I don't think you get to the top paying an okay player like he's one of the best.
I'll bring it home for you. Would you be willing to pay Thibodeaux right now the same as Parsons?
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
someone cheaper and shittier, but there will be less embittered jealousy since it wont be an "overpay".
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
to expect that there are more than a handful of backup QBs in the NFL who could go into any situation and play as well as any starter, let alone a top 1/3 starter, is just insane.
he actually played pretty well his 2nd year w/ flores. that was pre-hill and waddle as rookie so it wasnt explosive but he was pretty efficient.
First, Miami misses on Herbert and now they compound that problem by this massive overpay.
Injury concern is legit, but hell no one bats an eye at Burrow's injury history nor Rodgers. But 4600+ yds, nearly 30 TDs and nearly 70% completion percentage is great production. Even with a noodle arm lol. Montana also had a not so strong arm and produced big time.
I rarely bemoan these guys getting paid. Especially QBs as it is a given that if they can walk and chew gum at the same time, then they are getting paid and will have endless opps to make money. That's what the league has become.
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Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
What about his 100 pass attempts has locked you into him giving the Dolphins
“most of what Tua does”?
Only on this board can any old player wake up and throw for 5000 yards and 30 TDs.
That is one of the elite offenses in the NFL with a mad scientist pulling the strings under the headset.
Crazy…
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In comment 16560515 The Mike said:
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We should be leaving within two years, so good luck carrying the torch on our behalf in 2026!
Every time a team pays a non legendary QB this shit gets thrown around. People need to get used to how much QBs are getting paid. QB hell my ass. They have a good offense with Tua leading the way.
You either pay the QB or you don't pay the QB. Good luck building and sustaining a contender without paying the good and even somewhat imperfect VET QB. Go with the kid over and over again and see how far that takes you.
You either have an elite quarterback or you don't. If you do, you pay him top of market. If you don't you quickly pivot and move on. The Tua's, Prescotts, etc are being paid like they are elite and they aren't. They will never win a championship and will just create locker room resentment and force a brutally unbalanced cap situation. The idea that the Cowboys are hemming and hawing on Parsons and Lamb to appease Dak could not be more off base in the salary cap era.
“They will never win a championship” is a prediction not at all a fact. Save it. Guys like Kerry Collins got to a Super Bowl and got two 2 conference title games. Guys like Trent dilfer won a Super Bowl. Doug Williams did too. Rypien. Simms. Shit even Kurt Warner counts as he was a nobody until he wasn’t.
Don’t tell me guys who play well in the regular season can’t win a title when history is littered with evidence that they can and do quite often.
Eli manning was a slob until be wasn’t. Millions of people ended up looking like fools when all is said n done. Good players peak and valley all the time. Some peak at the right time. Some don’t.
Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes might be the best example but I don’t think Smith is as good as Tua.
And the skins regret that decision or at least they should. They’d have more division titles and or playoff appearances these last 5 or so seasons if they kept cousins. They draft the guy then FT him like idiots. Twice I believe? Then he walks…
Playoff appearances matter. It’s the only way to step in shit and wind up alive in February. I can’t take these fans that say it’s NFL title or bust. It’s not. It’s playoffs or bust.
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
if the Dolphins wanted to keep Tua long-term, they ain’t franchise tagging him.
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with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes might be the best example but I don’t think Smith is as good as Tua.
Yep, this is a good example, but I should’ve added before that sure you can pivot and move on if you have a hotshot first round pick waiting in the wings. That’s a huge distinction.
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with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
Wentz was hot trash though and Philly knew it. Goff was traded for a (better) QB.
Maybe I should have clarified the pivot comment but I assumed the pivot meant to just cut bait even if there’s no viable alternative. Who the heck is Miami going with the QB right now.
if you can plan ahead and draft the Young QB and nurture him and watch him practice for a year or so before you possibly cut a capable starter, more power to you. It might be easy to implement that kind of strategy but it doesn’t always pay off. I mean, we’ve seen teams try to do that but then get gun shy because the guy they drafted, Trey Lance, wasn’t ready. It’s a good strategy, but it comes with a cost as well. And risk.
You basically have to have a pretty rock solid plan in place to cut a good QB.
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Ultimately because Brian Flores nearly ruined him with his awful staffing decisions. Never once had stability on the offensive staff or its players.
he actually played pretty well his 2nd year w/ flores. that was pre-hill and waddle as rookie so it wasnt explosive but he was pretty efficient.
They had two OC's and neither called plays. He found himself in great spot right now, so I am happy for him as a player.
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with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
Already said no cousins and they didn’t get better when he left. Wentz got hurt. Goff got a second contract from LAR. So these example either don’t fit the criteria or didn’t work.
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In comment 16560668 Toth029 said:
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Ultimately because Brian Flores nearly ruined him with his awful staffing decisions. Never once had stability on the offensive staff or its players.
he actually played pretty well his 2nd year w/ flores. that was pre-hill and waddle as rookie so it wasnt explosive but he was pretty efficient.
They had two OC's and neither called plays. He found himself in great spot right now, so I am happy for him as a player.
im not saying the situation wasnt screwed up, just that he did pretty well despite it. he went 7-1 to finish that season when he came back from injuries. they were 8-4 in games he finished.
Crazy…
It really is so fucking absurd. lol
Washington and Cousins is really all I can think of and he didn't win a playoff game. I think Jones was 25 at the time of the contract.
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with a good QB in their prime? Maybe Skins Cousins but at that point he never beat a team above .500 so that doesn’t count. Who else?
Kirk Cousins, Alex Smith, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff... just to name a few recent solid NFL quarterbacks. You don't make that kind of commitment to a guy like Tua who is a concussion away from being out of football. If he had proven he could win a Super Bowl, like Eli did, that is different story. He has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to win in cold/challenging weather.
They pivoted off Goff after they gave him a huge deal.
Crazy…
Right. Teams just don't do that.
So many on BBI thought Baltimore would move on from Jackson and find that replacement that’s apparently so easy to do and they didn’t either. They caved to his demands as they should have. They may or may not win a title with him, but they will be in the running for one every year he’s healthy, and I suspect Miami will too.
What’s the alternative anyway, just wait until Mahomes/Allen/Herbert etc all retire? If Tua stinks or gets hurt they will take it on the chin for a year or two and move on. Their window is right now and they are going for it, makes perfect sense.
Washington and Cousins is really all I can think of and he didn't win a playoff game. I think Jones was 25 at the time of the contract.
Marcus Mariota. It's a no brainer. You pivot smartly or suffer in quarterback hell. It is a binary situation.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Crazy…
this is of course hyperbolic and extreme but reality is in the past 21 years, just 11 QB's have won Super Bowls and that includes Foles.
There is some wisdom in making that QB replacement decision vs making a massive contract commitment to a QB you probably aren't going to win a Super Bowl with. It's not simple to make that decision and to be right about it, but being wrong about it is more costly. Brady and Mahomes alone account for 8 of the 21. Shit, 5 QB's (Eli (2), Peyton (2), Brady (5), Mahomes (3) and Ben (2)) account for 14 of the 21 SB wins.
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We should be leaving within two years, so good luck carrying the torch on our behalf in 2026!
Every time a team pays a non legendary QB this shit gets thrown around. People need to get used to how much QBs are getting paid. QB hell my ass. They have a good offense with Tua leading the way.
You either pay the QB or you don't pay the QB. Good luck building and sustaining a contender without paying the good and even somewhat imperfect VET QB. Go with the kid over and over again and see how far that takes you.
Define contender. Not sure I'd put Miami in there. Getting knocked out of the payoffs early ever year? How many times has Miami. Made it or made it last rd 1 inthe last 5. His concussion history scares me more than his ability level.
Teams are screwed. They keep over paying and not winning. Doesn't bother me mat all. Good for the QBs. But it's bad for football
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Endless denial, excuses and rationalizations. And FYI, DJ will be here next year so pivoting from an idiotic contract it is not as easy as you suggest. The Giants will be firmly entrenched in QB hell for at least another year.
And there was nothing obvious about pivoting from Mariota. He single handedly won that playoff game in 2017 bringing the Titans back with three second half touchdowns against Andy Reid and the Chiefs in Alex Smith's final game for KC. It was an incredible game for Mariota. And Mariota's career has been significantly better than that of DJ's in just about every meaningful career stat. The Titans were simply smart enough to pivot at the right time.
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Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
Tua had 5 games last season with over 300 yards and 4 with 3 or more td passes. He's a prolific passer in that offense.
You guys piss on Goff all the time. Well, he's thrown for 4500 yards 4 times in an 8 year career. He's headed two losing seasons: his first year with the Rams and his first year in Detroit. Since his rookie year, Goff has averaged over 4000 yards and 26 td's a year. Goff is a really, really good qb.
I think some of you have watched shitty qb'ing for so long that you have forgotten what a good qb looks like.
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he did really good that game handing off the Henry. He was never getting paid there.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Endless denial, excuses and rationalizations. And FYI, DJ will be here next year so pivoting from an idiotic contract it is not as easy as you suggest. The Giants will be firmly entrenched in QB hell for at least another year.
And there was nothing obvious about pivoting from Mariota. He single handedly won that playoff game in 2017 bringing the Titans back with three second half touchdowns against Andy Reid and the Chiefs in Alex Smith's final game for KC. It was an incredible game for Mariota. And Mariota's career has been significantly better than that of DJ's in just about every meaningful career stat. The Titans were simply smart enough to pivot at the right time.
Everything in your first paragraph is completely made up. And whether or not we move on from Jones is irrelevant - we can and that’s the point. Try to stay on task, I didn’t bring Jones up at all and don’t care to, it’s a Tua thread.
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In comment 16560811 UConn4523 said:
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he did really good that game handing off the Henry. He was never getting paid there.
And the Giants “QB hell” can end after this season if we want it to. If it’s so easy to move off a good QB before paying him than it should be just as easy to pivot off a bad one especially when his money comes off the books.
Endless denial, excuses and rationalizations. And FYI, DJ will be here next year so pivoting from an idiotic contract it is not as easy as you suggest. The Giants will be firmly entrenched in QB hell for at least another year.
And there was nothing obvious about pivoting from Mariota. He single handedly won that playoff game in 2017 bringing the Titans back with three second half touchdowns against Andy Reid and the Chiefs in Alex Smith's final game for KC. It was an incredible game for Mariota. And Mariota's career has been significantly better than that of DJ's in just about every meaningful career stat. The Titans were simply smart enough to pivot at the right time.
Everything in your first paragraph is completely made up. And whether or not we move on from Jones is irrelevant - we can and that’s the point. Try to stay on task, I didn’t bring Jones up at all and don’t care to, it’s a Tua thread.
Try reading the last sentence in your previous message slick.
Also, might want to look at Mariota as a whole in his 3rd season where he won his playoff game, it was largely game management which got worse the next year too, and it was an obvious choice to no pay him.
And Mariota scored less TDs, turned the ball over more, and his offense scored less points in 2017 than the Giants did in 2022. He wasn’t good, and got worse the following year when it was contract time. This conversation is about good QBs.
And Mariota scored less TDs, turned the ball over more, and his offense scored less points in 2017 than the Giants did in 2022. He wasn’t good, and got worse the following year when it was contract time. This conversation is about good QBs.
I never saw your first question. I was responding to Sean's question about pivoting from a quarterback who had won a playoff game. The narrow definition you provide excludes all answers so it is an exercise in pedantry. You simply have to pivot as soon as you realize that the talent isn't commensurate with winning a championship. Seattle pivoting from Russell Wilson was just as smart as the Eagles pivoting from Carson Wentz and the Bears pivoting from Mitchell Trubisky. You don't cling to dumb mistakes in assessing quarterback talent like Linus sucking his thumb and clinging to his security blanket.
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In comment 16560638 HomerJones45 said:
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Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
You don't know that and neither does Miami. Skyler Thompson?? Take a look at 2022 and compare him to Tua. Please; it's not even close.
Tua had 5 games last season with over 300 yards and 4 with 3 or more td passes. He's a prolific passer in that offense.
You guys piss on Goff all the time. Well, he's thrown for 4500 yards 4 times in an 8 year career. He's headed two losing seasons: his first year with the Rams and his first year in Detroit. Since his rookie year, Goff has averaged over 4000 yards and 26 td's a year. Goff is a really, really good qb.
I think some of you have watched shitty qb'ing for so long that you have forgotten what a good qb looks like.
You can’t look at numbers in a vacuum. Goff puts up wins and stats when he has talent around him. When guys were getting hurt he was not as productive. Miami has multiple elite WR’s, a running game, and a great offensive mind. This is the type of situation where you don’t overpay for a limited QB because they won games. That is precisely why the Giants signed Daniel Jones and look how that has worked out.
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In comment 16560638 HomerJones45 said:
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Tua has led one of the NFL's most prolific offenses the last two seasons, put up great numbers and is on the winning side in near 2/3'rd of the games he's started. He's all of 26 years old. According to BBI, he sucks and shouldn't have been re-signed.
If they did no planning at all, Tua's cap hit this season is $53 million. Not to pile on the guy, but Jones' cap hit this season is $47 million. Who would you rather have?
If you aren't going to pay Tua and Mahomes and Allen aren't available, who the hell are you going to get that is an improvement?
You don’t make a noodle arm, one concussion away from retirement QB the third highest paid guy when someone like Skylar Thompson can come in and give you most of what Tua does for a lot less. That offense is very QB friendly. Miami will regret this like the Giants regret paying Jones over a single playoff appearance.
What about his 100 pass attempts has locked you into him giving the Dolphins
“most of what Tua does”?
Only on this board can any old player wake up and throw for 5000 yards and 30 TDs.
The key is not whether Skylar Thompson can, it's whether someone like Andy Dalton can.
the Miami offense is not a 7 yard dump off to Hill, Waddle, Mostert, Achane, etc. that turns into a 90 yard pass play.
In terms of air yards (basically just the pass, no YAC), Tua led the NFL.
In terms of 50 yard passes (ball travels 50 yards in the air, not a 5 yard pass and 45 yard run), Tua led the NFL
In terms of 40 yard passes, Tua was 3rd in the NFL
In terms of air yards per attempt, only Purdy was higher than Tua among starters.
To be clear, the offense DOES benefit from their skill players YAC ability, but Tua is not as we say in hockey a "passenger".
Can you say with a straight face that Tua is a top 5 QB in this league? That's how he's being paid. And I don't think you get to the top paying an okay player like he's one of the best.
I'll bring it home for you. Would you be willing to pay Thibodeaux right now the same as Parsons?
Once you get past Mahomes, people find something to complain about with every QB.
Allen throws too many INTs.
Jackson's arm isn't good enough.
Burrow was 5-5 last year, with only a 91 rating.
Herbert doesn't win enough.
You couldn't compile a top 5 without a legit argument that Tua belongs, certainly from Dolphin fans.
To be clear, the offense DOES benefit from their skill players YAC ability, but Tua is not as we say in hockey a "passenger".
Tua is a good, but limited QB playing in a system loaded with elite skill players. He doesn't run and his off platform is average.
Team Purdy has to be licking their chops at this contract because he's better than Tua, IMV.
I stick with my theory that a lot of NFL QBs could thrive in that system.