First, I am going to take you back to the benching of Eli for Geno.
If you recall, the fans lost their minds over this. Especially those who were more concerned about a streak for Eli than the future of the team. This is not to say that Geno was the future. However, it was the first step in moving on from a great Giant QB who was not getting it done anymore.
Then, John Mara said and I quote "I did not expect the fans to get so emotional" over the decision. In my opinion, this is why they did not immediately draft his replacement and maybe why the Giants were not willing to draft Mahommes (or any other QB prospect) when available in and around that time.
You see, John wants the team to win but he is also marketing the team. Sometimes he is placing more weight on marketing.
Now, fast forward to the hard knocks clip where John is talking to Joe about Barkley. I am linking to it below. John Mara's concern is that Barkley is "popular".
This is how teams turn into cellar dwellers. Making decisions for the wrong reasons. Thank God Joe is only listening to him now and hopefully will never allow John to influence player personnel decisions.
Am I making too much of this? Maybe.. but we have no idea how much of this has happened behind closed doors.
John Mara Comments - (
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Not only that, the fans were fucking outraged over it. It's uncomfortable. It still is .
Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
Let’s not forget Eli made that situation uncomfortable. Whether you feel he was right in doing so or not doesn’t change the fact that he basically benched himself
Huh?
This isn't Grammar School, is it? When you realize as an Owner/GM for a Professional Organization worth billions in which your team is going in rebuild mode after a great run of success, you're going to be worried about making someone on the team that has been paid a ton that he will be made "Uncomfortable?"
If the Giants felt this way, then are they running a Grammar School Organization or a Professional one?
When a player is on the downside of his career and the team is sinking, you are going to put the player above the team?
Players can run teams/.organizations when they are great to varying degrees. But the moment they decline to a certain level that's just not very good, a product such as the Giants are on such a large scale, then there is no way that they should be that concerned about making the declining player uncomfortable to a certain extent.
Instead of making the laughable comment that McAdoo made that rightfully probably got the lunatic fired; all that should have been said in some manner was that "it's time to rebuild and evaluate our younger players." How hard is that to say to explain to a PROUD fan base that the time has come for no longer being a contender?
Anyone with a brain knew that Geno was NOT making them a contender. It’s what makes anyone making a big deal of positive comments about him from a team in which sucked,- so absurd. This seems to have been forgotten and its coming back at us again with Jones. You mean we want to celebrate the nut coach that could have been right to help the Giants achieve 5 or 6 wins vs 4 or 5 from 54/6 years ago?
We're fans most of us. I wonder at times if some people on this site forget that? The Giants weren't going TO WIN. Who did this guy think he was kidding?
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
Joe Judge was worse than McAdoo.
Geno had a bad ending with the Jets. He needed more time to get himself together and I think he deserves a lot of credit for staying at it and having some success years later.
Eli rightfully called out the pompous ass, and he said, "If we're going out there to win the game, that's fine. But automatically taking me out regardless of success or failure is bullshit. You're better off just playing one of the other guys."
And yeah he got emotional about it. Shock of all shocks, he actually gave a shit about the organization. But somehow, that makes him a phony.
McAdoo didn't lose his job because of Eli, he lost his job because he was a pompous jerk who got the job in the first place because Mara feared him going to the Eagles. Then the team openly quit on him in like week 10 when they gave up in that home game vs. the Rams, and gave up a 3rd and 35 or something like that.
Perfectly stated.
It was reported Chris Mara was very high on Webb. It was a miss. I credit them for at least taking a swing.
A 3rd round QB was not much of a swing. If they were serious they should have been drafting a QB a lot higher than that. I'm sure Mara was worried about the optics and the popular player Eli was with the fans (sound familiar?). He should have been looking at the future of the team.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Whatever. Doesn’t mean it has any value.
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. An contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. A contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I never thought it was going to be easy to find Eli’s successor that would keep the team competitive like he did for many years. I just can’t believe how little they have tried. Inexcusable across several GMs.
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. A contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
In 2017, both Dallas and Philly had three AP/PB OL. WFT had 2. All three teams had a future HOF LT. Giants had Flowers. 5 and potentially 6 HOF players in that group of 8
JR never drafted or added a PB OL in 11 seasons.
Eli would have been just fine with any of those teams or better yet just upgrade the GM spot once Reese was exposed a few years before they did fire him.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
This 😀
Good times - ( New Window )
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LOL I actually learned something new about Manning's little tragedy. He asked the team to put out an announcement on what was going on beforehand?
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. A contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
Giants fan always have, and continue to find ways to tear down their own QB who is a legendary postseason performer with 2 titles under his belt. Provided 10 years of relevant football without missing a start and was the consummate professional.
I think you have a sad and pathetic life and a sick obsession with me. I think you tirelessly and repeatedly bring up the one or two personal things I've shared on this site because you're a weirdo.
I shared I managed a large data organization in the context of a conversation around the analysis of data. And I shared that I left that organization as part of any early retirement when *you* kept bringing it up.
The number of times you discuss my personal life is 100X the times I have.
I have a close family member who is a regular, original BBIer who posts here everyday and several friends who know me. If you need some kind of strange corroboration of my personal affairs, I'll happily send you there way.
In the meantime, do yourself a favor, and stop being such a God damned weirdo.
I already have told you are a phony. I proved it to you with your own words.
I do feel bad as I think you issues are much bigger than just being insecure. I do hope you try to address that.
Good luck.
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I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
This thread is a perfect example. I'm exchanging opinions on football and football related topics.
It never dawned on me how genuinely psycho you might be until a few days ago. This whole time I thought you were totally joking, but you're exhibiting deeply disturbing behavior.
How about this - you only talk about football like I do?
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I think the point is Manning was in decline, and even someone as under-qualified as McAdoo could see it.
I imagine others in the organization could see it, but the at the highest levels the team had been operating through a combination of nostalgia and ignorance.
Then post better and stay away from your stupid comments about Eli or TC which is your way of defending your hero Reese.
Like I said long ago you have a big insecurity problem and even bigger reflection problem. You also have a poor character imv and I could care less to hear from anyone you know. That again shows your insecurity.
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I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I simply made an observation.
Have I insulted you?
Well, it worked out for us in the long term so (shrugs shoulders).
It truly does seem to bother you Reese was the lynch pin of those championships.
Thankfully Reese was there to manage around some of Manning's flaws, and Coughlin's shortcomings.
Well, it worked out for us in the long term so (shrugs shoulders).
Yeah don't hate the player, hate the game. As a fan I'm very pleased Manning maneuvered his way from San Diego to New York. My only interest in the whole thing is the Giants winning.
But let's not put our heads up our own butts and pretend like Manning Inc. didn't use the press and the on-stage moment to help in that maneuver.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I simply made an observation.
Have I insulted you?
You sought me out by criticizing my observation, yet you don't want me to go over case.
I'm happy to debate the topic with you. Seems like maybe your aren't?
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I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I simply made an observation.
Have I insulted you?
You sought me out by criticizing my observation, yet you don't want me to go over case.
I'm happy to debate the topic with you. Seems like maybe your aren't?
You're right, I am not. We have done that before, multiple times.
Does any part of you intentionally bring up the Manning fraud case purposely to provoke other posters?
My criticism insulted you, yes or no?
And sad.
Well done.
Geno, turned out to be a petty good QB in the right system. Why couldn't we try to emulated what Seattle did? with him?
Iy all starts at the top as far as I'm concerned. You can blame Schoen/Daboll, however it's the owner that has to right the ship. They do that by hiring the correct people for the positions.
Everyone loves the job McVey/Snead have done with the Rams, but I give the owner a lot of credit in hiring them both, and most importantly, trusting their instincts. They have a very unorthodox system of roster construction that produces success.
Success leaves clues.
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see, it’s because you chose not too. However, praising a guy like McAdoo for getting a few things right when his overall body of work sucked is odd.
I think the point is Manning was in decline, and even someone as under-qualified as McAdoo could see it.
I imagine others in the organization could see it, but the at the highest levels the team had been operating through a combination of nostalgia and ignorance.
Yes that’s what I said.
A lot of odd posts in this thread though as I said above too.
Faces come out in the rain.
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People are certainly strange.
Faces come out in the rain.
Love ‘The Doors’ reference.
My comment was intended to let you know how I see it when you consistently bring up Manning being a phony.
I don’t see my view being any more ‘strange’ than yours if indeed you were including me in your ‘strange’ comment. I won’t deny being strange to others.
I’m a big Manning fan, I also can acknowledge that merchandising scheme was pretty lame.
Some people seem to confuse being a fan and a cheerleader. They aren’t the same thing.
And hey if you want to wave your Pom Pom’s around go ahead. Just don’t act like people they don’t share your opinions are bad people. That is even more lame
My comment was intended to let you know how I see it when you consistently bring up Manning being a phony.
I don’t see my view being any more ‘strange’ than yours if indeed you were including me in your ‘strange’ comment. I won’t deny being strange to others.
I think your are seeing ghosts.
I’m a big Manning fan, I also can acknowledge that merchandising scheme was pretty lame.
Some people seem to confuse being a fan and a cheerleader. They aren’t the same thing.
And hey if you want to wave your Pom Pom’s around go ahead. Just don’t act like people they don’t share your opinions are bad people. That is even more lame
I am big fan of Manning the football player. And less of a fan of Manning Inc. the public figure.
The dude literally instructed the team to issue a public statement regarding his choice to not play.
Manning Inc. are experts at using the press and public sentiment to further their business.
Are you ignoring my question to you in regards of voluntarily coming out of a game as an athlete?
Since I’ll be the adult - Mara, Reese, and McAdoo all handled it about as poorly as possible.
You have said you were a division 1 athlete. As was I. If I was told that no matter how I played - I was automatically coming out would something that would not set well with me. So as much as certain posters who forever have shitted on Eli and went as far saying he wasn’t that good - Eli did the right thing by saying - I’m not good enough to finish - then I should t start. He didn’t let the streak affect his mindset.
Him letting Geno start and finish the game was the right way - and in reality it was.
I haven't discussed Eli's actions for that situation. That criticism is coming from the keyboard of others.
And let me say this for clarity. The 2017 season was a total organizational failure. No one is immune from criticism. From the opening kickoff of the season, the season completely spiraled out of control. Injuries, player revolts, lack of professionalism, lack of leadership, etc. You name it.
But my focus has been on Mara's actions and how he fired his GM and HC for doing what they were told to do. I find that appalling. He couldn't handle the media and fan blowback, panicked, and hung his GM and HC out to dry.
I don't why this is in dispute.
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see, it’s because you chose not too. However, praising a guy like McAdoo for getting a few things right when his overall body of work sucked is odd.
I think the point is Manning was in decline, and even someone as under-qualified as McAdoo could see it.
I imagine others in the organization could see it, but the at the highest levels the team had been operating through a combination of nostalgia and ignorance.
And yrt at the end, McAdoo couldn't tell that the team was in decline with his moronic comment that "Geno gives us the bext chance to win. . . " To win what?
Why would he say it, if he didnn't mean it?
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I believe your comment was intended to be insulting. My comments on Manning are how I feel, and in the context of the debate.
My comment was intended to let you know how I see it when you consistently bring up Manning being a phony.
I don’t see my view being any more ‘strange’ than yours if indeed you were including me in your ‘strange’ comment. I won’t deny being strange to others.
I think your are seeing ghosts.
Probably. I am a bit insecure.
This was the whole point of the thread. Thankfully Hard Knocks has reinforced what I always suspected.
Mike "how can you do this to the loyal fans who supported this team for decades?" Mara "If the fans knew the costs we have incurred with the new stadium they would understand".
WTF who told you to build this dump in the first place.
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The very washed version of Manning definitely compares favorably to anything that's followed. That's what the bottom of the barrel looks like.
I think you said it. 2018 Eli > 2022 Jones
With all do respect to both of you as posters, no way. A lot what made Eli's 2018 stats respectable on the surface (YPA, yards) were ran up in garbage time defeats or against weak opponents once the season was basically over, his advanced stats reflect this.
I'm no Jones enthusiast but he was a plus player in 2022.