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This Comment Sealed My Thoughts on John Mara ...

DefenseWins : 7/26/2024 3:33 pm
First, I am going to take you back to the benching of Eli for Geno.

If you recall, the fans lost their minds over this. Especially those who were more concerned about a streak for Eli than the future of the team. This is not to say that Geno was the future. However, it was the first step in moving on from a great Giant QB who was not getting it done anymore.

Then, John Mara said and I quote "I did not expect the fans to get so emotional" over the decision. In my opinion, this is why they did not immediately draft his replacement and maybe why the Giants were not willing to draft Mahommes (or any other QB prospect) when available in and around that time.

You see, John wants the team to win but he is also marketing the team. Sometimes he is placing more weight on marketing.

Now, fast forward to the hard knocks clip where John is talking to Joe about Barkley. I am linking to it below. John Mara's concern is that Barkley is "popular".

This is how teams turn into cellar dwellers. Making decisions for the wrong reasons. Thank God Joe is only listening to him now and hopefully will never allow John to influence player personnel decisions.

Am I making too much of this? Maybe.. but we have no idea how much of this has happened behind closed doors.
John Mara Comments - ( New Window )
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Nobody would have gone  
TrueBlue56 : 7/26/2024 3:53 pm : link
Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).

Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
Different situations and  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/26/2024 4:03 pm : link
the Eli benching was just one component of it and I agree with 56 about Webb but the whole concept was poor.

What many in the media, fans (vocal or letters), former great Giants were upset with as much as the benching was the terrible job Reese had been doing with the drafts and FA in building poor teams. They already got rid of TC. That is what Mara learned.

Wasting the last 5-6 years of Eli's career will go down as one of the worst timeframes in Giants history over time imv.
What you made too much of,  
gridirony : 7/26/2024 4:16 pm : link
is mentioning the drafting of Mahommes. The Giants have never had the personnel to accurately assess Mahommes' talent, and then move up in the draft to land him.
RE: Nobody would have gone  
k2tampa : 7/26/2024 4:19 pm : link
In comment 16560506 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).

Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.


First, Eli wasn't benched. The Giants wanted him to start and play the first halves the rest of the way. They also wanted to see what else they had at QB, especially with Webb, since the season was over as far as the playoffs. They wanted to get Webb some playing time to see if they needed to look again for a QB in the draft. Eli decided he wasn't going to do that and took himself out of the lineup.

Second, the plan was just for Geno to play the second half of that week's game because it was on the road and Webb had had no practice snaps with the first team. Webb was going to take over the second-half role the next game at home (which might have been after a bye) and for the remaining games after getting reps with the first team in practice.
RE: What you made too much of,  
bw in dc : 7/26/2024 4:19 pm : link
In comment 16560535 gridirony said:
Quote:
is mentioning the drafting of Mahommes. The Giants have never had the personnel to accurately assess Mahommes' talent, and then move up in the draft to land him.


Sure they did. McAdoo loved Mahomes prior to that draft.
RE: Nobody would have gone  
Section331 : 7/26/2024 4:20 pm : link
In comment 16560506 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).

Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.


Exactly right. I was out of my mind over the benching, not because I gave shit about the streak, hell I was glad it was over, but that it was for Geno Smith. I get what McAdoo was thinking, even a marginal NFL QB would be better than Eli at that point, but for Mara to be so blind-sided shows just how blind he is. And then to make McAdoo the scapegoat for something he agreed to!

Now, I think McAdoo was the worst Giant's HC this side of Ray Handley, but he got a raw deal in that regard. That said, maybe he should have realized it wasn't as much Eli as it was his shitty offense.
 
christian : 7/26/2024 4:20 pm : link
Was Manning not going to cry like a bitch after the game if Webb played, instead of the guy who is still currently at a high level in the NFL?
McAdoo is the most misunderstood figure in NYG history  
Sean : 7/26/2024 4:26 pm : link
--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.

I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.

But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
RE: RE: Nobody would have gone  
bw in dc : 7/26/2024 4:27 pm : link
In comment 16560546 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16560506 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).

Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.



Exactly right. I was out of my mind over the benching, not because I gave shit about the streak, hell I was glad it was over, but that it was for Geno Smith. I get what McAdoo was thinking, even a marginal NFL QB would be better than Eli at that point, but for Mara to be so blind-sided shows just how blind he is. And then to make McAdoo the scapegoat for something he agreed to!

Now, I think McAdoo was the worst Giant's HC this side of Ray Handley, but he got a raw deal in that regard. That said, maybe he should have realized it wasn't as much Eli as it was his shitty offense.


Great post.
RE: McAdoo is the most misunderstood figure in NYG history  
Go Terps : 7/26/2024 4:28 pm : link
In comment 16560556 Sean said:
Quote:
--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.

I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.

But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.


💯
I still cringe when Geno Smith is referenced by Giant fans  
Sean : 7/26/2024 4:31 pm : link
"The issue is it was for Geno Smith!" Huh? He's still playing isn't he? Starting. Davis Webb is coaching.

Not a good look there.
RE: McAdoo is the most misunderstood figure in NYG history  
bw in dc : 7/26/2024 4:34 pm : link
In comment 16560556 Sean said:
Quote:
--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.

I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.

But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.


No proof, but I've always believed that the way Mara crushed McAdoo as the fall guy may have created a bit of a black-ball effect on McAdoo.
RE: McAdoo is the most misunderstood figure in NYG history  
TrueBlue56 : 7/26/2024 4:37 pm : link
In comment 16560556 Sean said:
Quote:
--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.

I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.

But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.


Geno Smith was never going to be the quarterback he is in Seattle if he stayed here. Pete Carroll put him in an offensive scheme that best suited him and credit to geno Smith for playing well.

Mcadoo was wrong about Geno with the NY Giants. He wasn't the future and wasn't the answer. Mcadoo screwed up in not giving Webb any reps in practice throughout the whole year. Webb was the young guy, who they drafted.
RE: I still cringe when Geno Smith is referenced by Giant fans  
TrueBlue56 : 7/26/2024 4:42 pm : link
In comment 16560563 Sean said:
Quote:
"The issue is it was for Geno Smith!" Huh? He's still playing isn't he? Starting. Davis Webb is coaching.

Not a good look there.


Geno Smith was a failed quarterback with the Jets before coming here. Prior to coming here, we all knew what he was and wasn't. It's wonderful to look now and say you knew all along and I will call bullshit. He has played very well in Seattle. Kudos to him, but at that time (not looking at now) he wasn't the answer.

I guarantee you that if he had stayed here, he wouldn't have lasted as a starter and he wouldn't have put up the numbers he has in Seattle.
TrueBlue56  
Sean : 7/26/2024 4:43 pm : link
No he didn't. Webb stunk. Shurmur came here and cut him for Lauletta. He got cut by the Jets & Bills. He came back because he knew Daboll's system.

It was reported Chris Mara was very high on Webb. It was a miss. I credit them for at least taking a swing.
RE: Different situations and  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/26/2024 4:44 pm : link
In comment 16560511 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
the Eli benching was just one component of it and I agree with 56 about Webb but the whole concept was poor.

What many in the media, fans (vocal or letters), former great Giants were upset with as much as the benching was the terrible job Reese had been doing with the drafts and FA in building poor teams. They already got rid of TC. That is what Mara learned.

Wasting the last 5-6 years of Eli's career will go down as one of the worst timeframes in Giants history over time imv.


This. Mara is an idiot. Ok. His firing of TC and not Reese proved that.
RE: RE: McAdoo is the most misunderstood figure in NYG history  
Go Terps : 7/26/2024 4:45 pm : link
In comment 16560568 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16560556 Sean said:


Quote:


--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.

I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.

But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.



No proof, but I've always believed that the way Mara crushed McAdoo as the fall guy may have created a bit of a black-ball effect on McAdoo.


And what about Reese? He dropped off the face of the earth at age 54.

That entire incident was an embarrassment. And I know this makes some people angry, but Geno Smith was the first black player to start at QB for the Giants...in their 93rd year of existence. And the next day the people involved in that decision were fired.

Abd clearly how it went down didn't sit well with Smith, who mentioned Reese and McAdoo after he led Seattle to a win over NYG in 2022.
Geno didn't  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/26/2024 4:50 pm : link
become a starter till years later. BM was exposed as an offensive coach after TC left. He needed more seasoning and he was not blackballed.

I didn't see PM much in college but would have little faith in BM or "Reach" maximizing his talent. KC was a playoff team 4/5 years before he took over.

Regardless, Allen ('18) is the QB I did want and that was where I think the Giants missed.

GT  
Sean : 7/26/2024 4:51 pm : link
Not only that, the fans were fucking outraged over it. It's uncomfortable. It still is .

Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
McAdoo may have gotten a raw deal in NY  
DieHard : 7/26/2024 4:52 pm : link
but nothing he's done since he left the Giants indicates he's some underrated coaching guru. And guys who are "blackballed" don't get another chance at being a coordinator, which he has. Jim Fassel is a better example of "blackballed" -- he never got another shot after Brian Billick hung him out to dry.

Back to your regularly scheduled Mara rants...
RE: RE: Nobody would have gone  
section125 : 7/26/2024 4:53 pm : link
In comment 16560540 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16560506 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).

Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.



First, Eli wasn't benched. The Giants wanted him to start and play the first halves the rest of the way. They also wanted to see what else they had at QB, especially with Webb, since the season was over as far as the playoffs. They wanted to get Webb some playing time to see if they needed to look again for a QB in the draft. Eli decided he wasn't going to do that and took himself out of the lineup.

Second, the plan was just for Geno to play the second half of that week's game because it was on the road and Webb had had no practice snaps with the first team. Webb was going to take over the second-half role the next game at home (which might have been after a bye) and for the remaining games after getting reps with the first team in practice.


In a tantrum, Eli benched himself. People forget that. He told Judge either he plays the whole game or none...got no sympathy from me.
To the OP  
5BowlsSoon : 7/26/2024 4:53 pm : link
I think you are Spot On in your analysis. Nice ….
If Reese  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/26/2024 4:53 pm : link
was a good GM then the situation would have never happened. He ran the franchise into the ground and that is why there has been little interest in him. Same for Ross.
RE: GT  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/26/2024 4:55 pm : link
In comment 16560590 Sean said:
Quote:
Not only that, the fans were fucking outraged over it. It's uncomfortable. It still is .

Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.


I was one of them. I loved Eli. And I had seen enough of Geno to think he wasn’t the answer. If Eli was going to be benched, I wanted Webb to start.

Obviously Geno’s career since has proven me wrong.

But in the moment, it was emotional. I’m still pissed Eli answering ?s at his locker fighting back tears while you heard teammates goofing around in the background.
GT...  
bw in dc : 7/26/2024 4:59 pm : link
Yes, that is a good point about Reese, too.

I've written endlessly on that situation and I continue to be amazed how Mara hardly drew any public criticism. That was a professional hit job ala the Mob.

And that created the domino effect that led to Accorsi being hired to hire Gettleman. Which drove the organization deeper into the ditch.
RE: RE: RE: Nobody would have gone  
k2tampa : 7/26/2024 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16560596 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16560540 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 16560506 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).

Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.



First, Eli wasn't benched. The Giants wanted him to start and play the first halves the rest of the way. They also wanted to see what else they had at QB, especially with Webb, since the season was over as far as the playoffs. They wanted to get Webb some playing time to see if they needed to look again for a QB in the draft. Eli decided he wasn't going to do that and took himself out of the lineup.

Second, the plan was just for Geno to play the second half of that week's game because it was on the road and Webb had had no practice snaps with the first team. Webb was going to take over the second-half role the next game at home (which might have been after a bye) and for the remaining games after getting reps with the first team in practice.



In a tantrum, Eli benched himself. People forget that. He told Judge either he plays the whole game or none...got no sympathy from me.


Exactly, and the change wasn't made for Smith. That was going to be for one half because Webb needed practice with the first team and they wanted his first game action to be at home. The plan always that Webb was going to play the second half of the remaining games.

Eli told the team he wouldn't play under those conditions. For some reason the NY media, and most fans, just ignore that fact.
RE: McAdoo is the most misunderstood figure in NYG history  
Simms11 : 7/26/2024 5:06 pm : link
In comment 16560556 Sean said:
Quote:
--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.

I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.

But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.


Right about a lot, except his suit!😂
RE: If Reese  
Sean : 7/26/2024 5:08 pm : link
In comment 16560599 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
was a good GM then the situation would have never happened. He ran the franchise into the ground and that is why there has been little interest in him. Same for Ross.

He's a 2x SB winning GM and you just can't give him any credit. You keep referencing Reese but rarely reference Gettleman.
...  
christian : 7/26/2024 5:09 pm : link
McAdoo correctly observed Smith had the tools to develop and Manning was shot. The water works from Manning were very uninspiring.
RE: To the OP  
DefenseWins : 7/26/2024 5:09 pm : link
In comment 16560597 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
I think you are Spot On in your analysis. Nice ….


thank you! ONE person here (you) stayed on topic. This was not intended to belabor the Eli thing and was solely about how John Mara's decisions may be swayed by what the fans think.
Lol  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:10 pm : link
The McAdoo love fest here is sad. A horrific coach. Offense got worse when he became in charge of it. Players quit on him.

Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.

And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 7/26/2024 5:13 pm : link
In comment 16560619 christian said:
Quote:
McAdoo correctly observed Smith had the tools to develop and Manning was shot. The water works from Manning were very uninspiring.


Nostalgia is a huge problem in this organization. You see it all over Hard Knocks. Shit, they have "Once a Giant, Always a Giant" printed on the throwbacks!

🤮
McAdoo  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:14 pm : link
Has had two coaching jobs since he got fired from the Giants…

He was fired after one season in both jobs. But I guess anything to keep narratives going.
RE: Lol  
bw in dc : 7/26/2024 5:18 pm : link
In comment 16560622 JT039 said:
Quote:
The McAdoo love fest here is sad. A horrific coach. Offense got worse when he became in charge of it. Players quit on him.

Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.

And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.


No lovefest from me.

Just pointing out that Mara made him the fall guy for something that Mara ordered to do in the first place. Which was to bench Eli.

Mr. Class certainty didn't act like it that week...
 
christian : 7/26/2024 5:20 pm : link
McAdoo didn't have what it took to be a head coach. It doesn't change the fact Mara set him up, and it doesn't change the fact he was right about Manning.
RE: RE: Lol  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:20 pm : link
In comment 16560630 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16560622 JT039 said:


Quote:


The McAdoo love fest here is sad. A horrific coach. Offense got worse when he became in charge of it. Players quit on him.

Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.

And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.



No lovefest from me.

Just pointing out that Mara made him the fall guy for something that Mara ordered to do in the first place. Which was to bench Eli.

Mr. Class certainty didn't act like it that week...


Weird take. As an athlete I wouldn’t want to be pulled halfway through a game. Would you?
RE: …  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:21 pm : link
In comment 16560634 christian said:
Quote:
McAdoo didn't have what it took to be a head coach. It doesn't change the fact Mara set him up, and it doesn't change the fact he was right about Manning.


He wasn’t set up - that’s ridiculous.
The team had already quit on McAdoo  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:23 pm : link
Before the Manning decision.

That’s the NUMBER ONE reason he lost his job. When players quit on a coach, there’s no more damning reason to get fired.
 
christian : 7/26/2024 5:24 pm : link
Of course he was setup. Mara initiated the idea of "seeing what they had in the other quarterbacks" and when Manning cried like a little bitch about it, Mara fired McAdoo.
RE: …  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:25 pm : link
In comment 16560640 christian said:
Quote:
Of course he was setup. Mara initiated the idea of "seeing what they had in the other quarterbacks" and when Manning cried like a little bitch about it, Mara fired McAdoo.


lol what an awful take. Not surprising though.
BM being  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/26/2024 5:25 pm : link
set up is a moronic statement. The guy lost the locker room starting in the 2017 off season.

TC was setup in 2015. The 2016 200m dollar spending spree on the D is proof. The O was pretty solid in 2015 with TC's guidance.
RE: BM being  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:27 pm : link
In comment 16560643 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
set up is a moronic statement. The guy lost the locker room starting in the 2017 off season.

TC was setup in 2015. The 2016 200m dollar spending spree on the D is proof. The O was pretty solid in 2015 with TC's guidance.


Of course it’s a moronic statement.

Almost as moronic as a poster once saying the Eli memorabilia scandal would ruin the giants.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 7/26/2024 5:28 pm : link
In comment 16560642 JT039 said:
Quote:
Of course he was setup. Mara initiated the idea of "seeing what they had in the other quarterbacks" and when Manning cried like a little bitch about it, Mara fired McAdoo.

lol what an awful take. Not surprising though.


Oh please Dep. You were crying in your Manning jammies too.
RE: The team had already quit on McAdoo  
bw in dc : 7/26/2024 5:29 pm : link
In comment 16560639 JT039 said:
Quote:
Before the Manning decision.

That’s the NUMBER ONE reason he lost his job. When players quit on a coach, there’s no more damning reason to get fired.


Did the team quit or were they besieged by injuries while their franchise QB fall off a cliff?

Anything to shit on Eli  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:30 pm : link
That is known as the Christian way. Calling someone a bitch is sad and pathetic. Like I said though - not surprising.

Embarrassing when he played even more embarrassing now.
.  
ChrisRick : 7/26/2024 5:30 pm : link
Eli crying like a bitch, I find them very inspiring.

RE: RE: The team had already quit on McAdoo  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:32 pm : link
In comment 16560648 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16560639 JT039 said:


Quote:


Before the Manning decision.

That’s the NUMBER ONE reason he lost his job. When players quit on a coach, there’s no more damning reason to get fired.



Did the team quit or were they besieged by injuries while their franchise QB fall off a cliff?


From October 11th. Guess it was Eli’s fault
DRC leaves team - ( New Window )
Two more  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:33 pm : link
Players…
Eli’s fault - ( New Window )
The  
Toth029 : 7/26/2024 5:34 pm : link
Defense was fighting within itself and McAdoo did dick about it. This occurred in 2016, too, from what Jonathan Casillas says. They let Eli Apple get away with too much.

Offensively, McAdoo and Reese collaborated and wanted to keep the same dog shit OL and keep adding players outside so he can run 11 personnel all damn game.
Another suspended  
JT039 : 7/26/2024 5:35 pm : link
During a bye
JJ suspended - ( New Window )
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