Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
He has to EARN every snap now. He will play this year at some point when he’s healthy. This is the right move. Now just make Ezedu a guard and we have decent depth.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
If the most Neal is doing is jogging lightly on the side, he’s not that close to coming back anyway. And when he does, he has to get used to a new OL coach and get in game shape.
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
I think it harsh to label the Neal pick a mistake. (Very few teams would have passed on him.)
But clearly he has been a disappointment.
Let's see if SOME of his natural talent can be salvaged.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
Maybe those posters who say they don't understand about others thinking Runyan at LG will understand more now. 🤷🏽♂️
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
When Neal comes back it should be at swing tackle now, with an eye
to trying him at G next season. I would hope his days at RT are over. Our G's are improved but old, so if Neal could be good at G that would be a big help moving forward.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
The move isn't necessarily permanent. It's up to Neal.
It's uncharted territory for the Giants, but the NFL allows teams to have 7+ starter quality linemen.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
It's unbelievable. They just can't get off the merry-go-round.
to trying him at G next season. I would hope his days at RT are over. Our G's are improved but old, so if Neal could be good at G that would be a big help moving forward.
I hope his days at RT are soon to restart because he gets healthy and shows enough to make Eluemunor first off the bench.
The important thing is the team is no longer relying on that.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
Are being proactive and not relying on the ‘22 draft class to be the near term solution. I hope Neal can ultimately be salvaged, but not going to count on it.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
5m
Aaron Robinson released. Last practiced in Nov 2022 before a devastating knee injury. Another empty RD3 pick #Giants
We also traded a fifth to move up and take him. But the cost was actually worth it. He could play. He just couldn't stay healthy. Nobody could have predicted what happened to him. Best wishes Aaron.
As was said, at least they're making these changes at the end of July,
which should give the players involved a chance to get used to the system and to playing together. We're not going to have a top o-line, but perhaps an average one.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
^This. The signing is fine, but I'm dubious that a 34 year old guard many teams didn't want to retain is a starting caliber player.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Totally agree. No one beats the clock and at some point a player is going to see his skills decrease. Hopefully they can get a year out of him. What would be better is for Neal to fulfill his potential and get back on the field, pushing Van Roten into a veteran backup role.
So sad about Robinson. Unlike Neal he showed his potential and was denied the opportunity by what appears to have been a devastating knee injury.
Although I would caution that the Raiders run offense stats from last year were not good, lower than the Giants by a lot. Now maybe we got their only 2 good OL players, I hope so, but it does give me pause.
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
that doesn't want to wish and hope that key starters will a) be healthy and b) play better than they ever have in their careers. Kudos to the folks who don't want to bet their jobs on a shambolic offensive line.
I wish we could draft offensive linemen better than we have in the last 15 years, but we gotta celebrate the small wins.
on one hand they whine about how we never have o-line depth. then they complain about a signing like this. its a low-cost guy who has been at least an adequate starter and is certainly a good depth piece. Its like people expect them to sign pro bowlers for depth.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
He's 34 but he was a late bloomer. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 so really has the wear and tear of mid level 28 year old.
Obvious signing - if jms is hurt I’d add connor Williams too
even a mediocre OL would be the biggest improvement to any position group in the nfl year over year. No more scholarships. Sign as many good players as possible let them fight for spots.
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
Agreed. And as someone who called for a 2000-like approach to the OL (when they brought in Lomas Brown, Parker, Zeigler & Stokes) I'm happy about it. A crew of lunchpail, scrappy vets to restore order.
He may or may not continue to start over GVR, but in any case they need the interior line insurance. Could be a combo of Bricillo saying "no thanks" to Ezeudu and/or having another guard in case one needs to shift over to center.
gives them at least solid depth and possibly a true starting guard. It also means there is some serious competition, for not only starting positions, but in actually making the team.
I had hoped Ezeudu would "get it" this year. But perhaps he and Neal will be allowed to develop from the backup position and not as liabilities on the field. Ezeudu does have good feet, so perhaps that are going to get him out there as a developing tackle.
Last year we kept trying to hold the wall together with rusty bolts that were already heavily flawed. We just kept trying to make it work. Now we are making moves. Credit needs to be acknowledged were it's due. Ezeudu didn't develop, and perhaps Neal once healthy becomes your swing tackle at least a rotational piece, but now you have more options and more depth. We had NOTHING last year even close to this. This is LIGHT years ahead of where we were last year and I will take it. This is very encouraging. We don't have to be best in the league, just give our explosive WRs time to make plays and give our QB time to make reads without running for his life as soon as the ball is snapped!
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
Van Roten is 34, Eluemunor 30 by the end of the season. If they can buy some time, hopefully Neal and/or Ezeuda can grow into starting roles.The pressure to step in immediately is off.
Are both stop gap players. The Giants can get out of the Elemeunor contract next offseason and Van Roten will only be signed for this year. Hopefully one of Ezeudu or Neal can develop into a quality starter for next season.
The most logical approach is starting him at RG and moving Runyan
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
The name of the game is to function at this point. Evan Neal needs to both return to health and exhibit he can reliably play above horrendous football.
Does that seem like a good bet to hinge the season on?
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
Just so. And for the many who bemoan his age, more than any position on either side of the ball, OL is where guys can get to his age, hold their own or even get better. Plenty of examples of OL in their mid-30s who continue to be solid--to the all important point of cohesion, knowing the guy next to you, anticipating.
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
Add in a vet center like connor Williams while we’re at it too. Totally agree about letting the 2 vegas guys play next to each other again, total no brainer even if runyan plays either side equally. Let him develop chemistry with thomas for 2-3 years.
At 7th overall no less. Makes us want to howl at the moon. But what is equally bothersome to me is JMS: like Neal, he was a no-brainer: position of extreme need, 'can't believe he was sitting there' in the 2nd round, supposedly high floor, both. It's almost as if JMS was 34 y/o in a 24 y/o body. While it is very difficult to second guess either pick given the scouting reports, the positional need, apparently the non-reach, there is a sameness of how these are playing out that demands a really hard look at what scouts are seeing and how they are evaluating.
Health is a huge factor in the development of the lineman Schoen has drafted. They simply haven't been on the field enough to work through the growing pains.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Health is a huge factor in the development of the lineman Schoen has drafted. They simply haven't been on the field enough to work through the growing pains.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
I agreed with you
Let's hope whatever they go with - they decide now and stick with it - as reps and continuity will be key, even with vets. And, yes, always hope for health.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
Health is a huge factor in the development of the lineman Schoen has drafted. They simply haven't been on the field enough to work through the growing pains.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
That's the corresponding point to my other comment. The Giants haven't had a shop where they develop lineman.
Over the last decade they've drafted plenty for need with high draft picks. Those draft picks have been slotted into play immediately, get banged up, they don't develop. And older arguably less talented players out perform them.
Andrew Thomas is the perfect outcome, but that's a white whale at this point.
I like the approach of having a veteran group that isn't learning on the job as the presumed starters, and then developing mid round players behind them.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
I don’t mind drafting OL high - flowers, thomas, and Neal were all picks I was for. Need a better hit rate that high though. Before it became such a passing league OL was the least risky high pick but that doesn’t seem true anymore. Ekwonu has struggled too.
to HS pitchers drafted high because they can fire fastballs > 100 mph and have sharp breaking curves. Then they break in and break down. So are these 'can't miss' OL overdeveloped in the college weight rooms and dominate their college competition, leading to high day 1 or day 2 grades, but then going against competitive NFL opponents, the accelerated development just wilts, for early years at least.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
On paper a lot of players are the correct pick. Yes, injuries derail development. But it appears that they can no longer wait for Neal or Ezeudu to pick it up.
I know a lot of people, and I think Sy, would have gone Garrett Wilson at one of those two picks. But hindsight is always 20/20.
Personally, I never considered Wilson as the line was such a mess.
Just glad now that they are being aggressive with the oline revamp. Bricillo must have their ears.
Although I would caution that the Raiders run offense stats from last year were not good, lower than the Giants by a lot. Now maybe we got their only 2 good OL players, I hope so, but it does give me pause.
_____________
The Giants got the 2 players that the Raiders chose not to re-sign.
to HS pitchers drafted high because they can fire fastballs > 100 mph and have sharp breaking curves. Then they break in and break down. So are these 'can't miss' OL overdeveloped in the college weight rooms and dominate their college competition, leading to high day 1 or day 2 grades, but then going against competitive NFL opponents, the accelerated development just wilts, for early years at least.
I’d compare it to a minor league hitting prospect stepping up to face mlb pitching. All the tools in the world don’t prepare you for consistent mlb pitching even if you’ve faced guys like that at the minor league level. Your analogy works too - a minor league pitcher with great stuff but no sense of how to pitch bc they got by with stuff their whole lives.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Remember when we passed on Andrew Whitworth?
______________
I said I was uncomfortable. I didn’t say I hated it. Whitworth was looking for a much bigger commitment than Van Roten.
The thing that kills me about Robinson...he's actually good. He just can't stay healthy. Frustrating AF.
I mean, he had a good camp in 2022, and looked good in the first game of the season, but based on that it's hard to say that he was a good player, IMO.
The tight end coach under Judge, whose name escapes me, in a really candid press conference towards the end made a great point.
He said in high school ball, the kids with size who are athletic are all edge or defensive lineman. And the kids with size with less athleticism are offensive lineman. Because this is what the colleges want, as a way to adjust to quick concept offenses.
I think this tracks and is a little different than a generation ago when in the development process a high athleticism kid was earmarked as the left tackle at least.
So I think from a macro perspective there is a changing pipeline, a changing style of play, and a changing practice and development mentality.
McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere.
McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere.
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
But Runyon told Schmeelk he’s “a lot more comfortable” at right guard. At 8:30 of the linked podcast. Link - ( New Window )
Quote: McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere./////////
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
As hard as it might be to stomach, many of us have pleaded that NYG need to seriously self-scout how wrong they have been on the OL and the why and how. So if Bricillo is driving this, so be it and a welcome bath of cold water.
But it's not going to be easy to re-build Rome in a day, dahling: did you notice how cautious Daboll was in handing out praise to Kubas in yesterday's presser? Smart, good enough movement, but a long way to go. I'm not sure if he was protecting his GM's OL line draft expertise (??), but let's don't put Kubas on the 53 just yet, maybe the PS.
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere.
McKethan is toast.
The staff seems to really love Ezudu at tackle; I think he's being targeted for top backup everywhere but center.
Van Roten's wife was my kid's elementary school teacher.
Yup….looks like Neal will be brought along even slower and may eventually get replaced if and when he returns. It’s sad that a high first round pick is struggling to play a position that he was thought very highly of coming out of college.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
But Runyon told Schmeelk he’s “a lot more comfortable” at right guard. At 8:30 of the linked podcast. Link - ( New Window )
and about 15 seconds before that Schmelk says 'I interviewed you before and you said you felt more comfortable on the left side and that has caused a lot of controversy since you've been on the right side..."
Not sure what the truth is but let's just hope they get it right
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
A most ridiculous statement. Neal was the #1 OT on the Cowboys board - their #2 player behind Thibodeaux.
Did Schoen draft him? Yes. He was a solid choice at #7. That he hasn't panned out is part of the draft. He may still overcome his faults. It just shows what a crap shoot the draft is.
You make it sound like Schoen was stupid or ignorant for that pick. I guarantee you that if the Cowboys had him rated that high, so did most teams. The Cowboys rarely miss on oline.
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
Well not "you guys," only the folks who believe in the infallibility of the coaches and the common man's inability to question or understand anything they do.
Now that it has happened it will have been the obvious right move, because the coaches did it.
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
Van Roten is probably better than all the current OL backups, and any current "starting" OG other than Runyon. AND he knows Bricillo.
Even with the prior starer additions (Runyan, Eluminor), the OL is still thin on talent and depth. Before this signing, they were an injury or two away from Ezudu at OT again 🤦🏻 (not everyone turns in to David Diehl), McKethan, and all the guys who've already proven they can't get it done. And FFS, maybe at least TRY Ezudu at OG at some point -- you know, the position he played well enough at in college that you spent a 3rd pick on him.
When there's a guy who upgrades your position who's available and affordable, you do it. I'm surprised it took so long after Van Roten visited.
In comment 16563400 fish3321 said:
Quote: He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH. /////////
Well not "you guys," only the folks who believe in the infallibility of the coaches and the common man's inability to question or understand anything they do.
Now that it has happened it will have been the obvious right move, because the coaches did it.
Not for nothing as it turns out, and I believe it was Runyon yesterday in his presser who said that the challenges of switching sides R to L or L to R are very much under appreciated and gave some granularity as to why. And we're here because of the unavailability of some of the pieces expected to be available. Hopefully, this all works out for the best, folks now here stay healthy and just sit Neal for the better part of the season.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
Quote:
RE: Evan Neal
Mike from Ohio : 1:28 pm : link : reply
In comment 16563397 JonC said:
Quote:
What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
And right on cue, not one but two posters jump in to pin a player's failure on one man.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
In fairness, since then we've heard that multiple teams had him scouted that high. We saw with our own eyes that Dallas had him as the #1 OL on their board. So it's not like Schoen and Co. made some outlier mis-assessment of the guy's potential.
I don't have an agenda @ all against Joe. I'm just not as taken with him as some others are here. A lot of people think we found our GM for the next decade. I just don't see it.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
Quote:
RE: Evan Neal
Mike from Ohio : 1:28 pm : link : reply
In comment 16563397 JonC said:
Quote:
What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
And right on cue, not one but two posters jump in to pin a player's failure on one man.
You need to get your 5 out there together so they can gel. At a certain point you can’t keep shuffling things around because you have a premium pick invested in another player. Historically speaking the odds were always stacked against Neal heading into this year given how bad he has been. That said, this doesn’t mean he won’t get another crack. More likely than not, there will be an injury or multiple injuries on the line, we are highly likely to see him in the starting lineup at some point. Assuming he actually gets out there again this summer, it will be interesting to see if they bother cross training him at guard or they just roll with him as the primary backup OT.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
A most ridiculous statement. Neal was the #1 OT on the Cowboys board - their #2 player behind Thibodeaux.
Did Schoen draft him? Yes. He was a solid choice at #7. That he hasn't panned out is part of the draft. He may still overcome his faults. It just shows what a crap shoot the draft is.
You make it sound like Schoen was stupid or ignorant for that pick. I guarantee you that if the Cowboys had him rated that high, so did most teams. The Cowboys rarely miss on oline.
Was Ryan Leaf a good pick? No, but lot's of teams had him higher than Manning. Results dictate if the pick was good.
View Neal as the same kind of bust as Flowers or Apple, for example. Those two in particular had no business being top ten picks. Neal was pegged as a top 5 guy routinely through the pre draft process.
And I'm glad about the signing, even if it looks like he'll be starting. The scariest part is how thin we are at Tackle. If Neal starts the season on PUP, that puts Ezuedo a heart-beat away from starting at tackle. That basically puts us right back where we were last year. If Ezuedo has to spend any real time at Tackle it's a potential season destroyer. I think signing an adequate swing tackle is just as important.
I'd advocate for a fan becoming the GM instead of a professional. Why the need to defend every pick to the hilt? It looks like a bad miss. Cross was also in the running at 7, and in spite of his own injury woes, has flashed much more than Neal as a starter.
Sy noted that Neal wound up on the ground at the end of plays way more than any of the other top tackle prospects in college. If he noticed, you know other scouts noticed too. Neal was not a "can't miss" prospect.
When did Giants fans get so soft in their critique of the front office?
If Neal being a bust isn't Schoen's fault, then whose is it? And this wasn't some flyer pick in the 3rd round. This is the 7th overall pick who can't even be a starter in his 3rd season. You want a standout player when picking that high...
I want Schoen to be successful here and am hopeful. But I'm still waiting for first truly impressive move.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
A most ridiculous statement. Neal was the #1 OT on the Cowboys board - their #2 player behind Thibodeaux.
Did Schoen draft him? Yes. He was a solid choice at #7. That he hasn't panned out is part of the draft. He may still overcome his faults. It just shows what a crap shoot the draft is.
You make it sound like Schoen was stupid or ignorant for that pick. I guarantee you that if the Cowboys had him rated that high, so did most teams. The Cowboys rarely miss on oline.
Why does this matter? I have never understood this argument.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
I suspect there's not a GM in the league who didn't think Neal was worth a top 10 pick. This site would have exploded if Schoen passed on him. Yet now Schoen is an idiot?
The draft ain't an exact science. And while many think Neal is a bust, we don't know what he could be if he can be healthy for a season with a good coach and a decent guard next to him.
and we are better? Sounds awfully familiar. Should have drafted Beede in the 3rd and will now play for the Cowbooys.
I got scorched on this site for suggesting we had the opportunity to select Beede. Oh, well. Joe Schoen is flailing and failing to re-build his O-line for the long run. Right now, he’s just throwing old sandbags on the levee with the water still rising.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
I suspect there's not a GM in the league who didn't think Neal was worth a top 10 pick. This site would have exploded if Schoen passed on him. Yet now Schoen is an idiot?
The draft ain't an exact science. And while many think Neal is a bust, we don't know what he could be if he can be healthy for a season with a good coach and a decent guard next to him.
Just remember that when it comes to our o-line, Joe Schoen is on the hook for more than Evan Neal. A lot more.
View Neal as the same kind of bust as Flowers or Apple, for example. Those two in particular had no business being top ten picks. Neal was pegged as a top 5 guy routinely through the pre draft process.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
I suspect there's not a GM in the league who didn't think Neal was worth a top 10 pick. This site would have exploded if Schoen passed on him. Yet now Schoen is an idiot?
The draft ain't an exact science. And while many think Neal is a bust, we don't know what he could be if he can be healthy for a season with a good coach and a decent guard next to him.
Just remember that when it comes to our o-line, Joe Schoen is on the hook for more than Evan Neal. A lot more.
Sure, as long as you remember he was saddled with Gettleman's scouts and their reports for the 2022 offseason (both draft and free agents). Not to mention one of the worst cap situations in the NFL.
So it's logical to assume Neal would have been taken top 10. McKethan was a later round dart throw. So Ezeudu is the most logical pick to question. Then you have Schmitz last year, who the final word is still out on. You can question the free agents his first two years, but what alternatives would you have signed instead for the same price? We'll also never know what last year might have looked like without the unbelievable number of injuries.
If Neal turns out okay, and none of us can know if he will or not, Schoen will have added four O line starters and at least three backups in three offseasons.
The Giants got the 2 players that the Raiders chose not to re-sign.
That's not fair Ivan. The Raiders didn't choose not to re-sign. They were UFAs. The most you could say is they chose not to franchise tag.
___________
It was still the Raiders choice. Eluemunor could have been had for just a bit more than the Giants offered. The price was low for a starting guard and tackle. I think the Raiders low balled or chose not to offer Van Roten what he wanted. Both decided to come home, although I think both would have stayed at something closer to their price.
I don’t understand, A Robinson had a devastating injury. There was a competent affordable average starter at a need.
Neal’s injury isn’t healing, for whatever reason.
Also, this doesn’t mean they won’t upgrade another position. I prefer especially on offense they bring in guys earlier then later due t the complexity of the system.
You need to get your 5 out there together so they can gel. At a certain point you can’t keep shuffling things around because you have a premium pick invested in another player. Historically speaking the odds were always stacked against Neal heading into this year given how bad he has been. That said, this doesn’t mean he won’t get another crack. More likely than not, there will be an injury or multiple injuries on the line, we are highly likely to see him in the starting lineup at some point. Assuming he actually gets out there again this summer, it will be interesting to see if they bother cross training him at guard or they just roll with him as the primary backup OT.
. Call me shocked if he comes off pup during the summer. He seems months away at best.
I don’t understand, A Robinson had a devastating injury. There was a competent affordable average starter at a need.
Neal’s injury isn’t healing, for whatever reason.
Also, this doesn’t mean they won’t upgrade another position. I prefer especially on offense they bring in guys earlier then later due t the complexity of the system.
This is for 1 year.
I think the issue is encapsulated in your very last line: “This is for 1 year.”
It’s a stop-gap move for a GM who has not yet demonstrated he can build an o-line for the long term through the Draft!
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
They don't need to get him off the roster, but they did need to stop counting on him or planning for him. this takes the pressure off. He can heal, and then they can see what he has when he's better. He's under contract for 2 more years. They may get some useful service out of him, but now they aren't jammed up anymore if that doesn't happen. He could, say, see some action this yea. Maybe he looks good after he knocks the rust off and he's healthy. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he has a bigger role next year, maybe he's gone. This move doesn't just help the O-line immediately, it lets than have some room to maneuver as far as they handle Neal, depending on what they see out of him going forward.
Or they can fall off a cliff as the post SB XLVI offensive line did.
Snee and others seemed to age 3 years after the 2011-2012 season. Of course Jerry Reese tried to Band Aid things rather than full rebuild. I'm sure Mara's fingerprints were all over that plan, trying to be the first team to win a home Super Bowl with the opening of MetLife.
I like that they're taking a different approach; sign multiple "proven" (i.e. serviceable) veterans and not rely on mid / late round pick rookies.
Neal is in a different category. He was a consensus top 10 pick from a strong program (Alabama) in a strong conference (SEC). There was nothing wrong with the pick with the information available at the time.
Between the injuries, sub par offensive line coaching (apparently) and balance issues that have gone unresolved or worsened, the Giants just got mostly unlucky with Neal. I'm glad Neal at RT no longer appears to be "Plan A".
Glad to see you are now getting guys with good resumes….I’m feeling better about our OL and WRs…..I’m very excited to see our triple threat at RB too…
I’d feel better knowing Cager was not injured because I’m not sold on Bellinger. Hopeful for Theo….
I saved the “best” for last…..QB……Dabs, you are a genius with the playbook, but you still need the commander to make it work….please don’t delay the inevitable….make it so….
I don’t understand, A Robinson had a devastating injury. There was a competent affordable average starter at a need.
Neal’s injury isn’t healing, for whatever reason.
Also, this doesn’t mean they won’t upgrade another position. I prefer especially on offense they bring in guys earlier then later due t the complexity of the system.
This is for 1 year.
I think the issue is encapsulated in your very last line: “This is for 1 year.”
It’s a stop-gap move for a GM who has not yet demonstrated he can build an o-line for the long term through the Draft!
Sure, nothing is proven yet. If you want to be annoyed that things are not proven yet, that's certainly a choice. I do not care *how* an effective offensive line is built. There isn't a team in the NFL that is doing it with 5 homegrown offensive linemen. It does not exist.
Better pass blocker than run blocker which seems to be a trend the Giants are looking for. Unfortunate imv, but they are going to be a perimeter team. Hopefully he can hold up for another season at 34 years old.
Not a favorable return on investment with drafted OL for this regime yet which has been a well over a decade problem.
we basically imported the right-side of the Raiders OL with their coach.
Hopefully the silver lining is this buys Bricillo time. Neal needs a lot of development work is my guess and obviously he can't get the full version on the sideline.
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
He's been hurt every year. Did he bang your mom? wtf. They had him play on a broken ankle. You and the other Neal haters go play OL on a broke ankle. Internet Rambo alert
The thing that kills me about Robinson...he's actually good. He just can't stay healthy. Frustrating AF.
Good one. As someone from Dutch ancestry, I believe "Van" means "from".
So, we can hope that the OL goes "from Roten" to ok or average? Haha. I think we'd all be happy with that!
Just give us AVERAGE!
Football can be mean to a person's body.
Quote:
.
The thing that kills me about Robinson...he's actually good. He just can't stay healthy. Frustrating AF.
He WAS good. He hasn't been good in a long time.
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
@rydunleavy
·
5m
Aaron Robinson released. Last practiced in Nov 2022 before a devastating knee injury. Another empty RD3 pick #Giants
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
Nope. The guy hasn’t played football in essentially 2 years. It was a long long shot that he would make the team.
Suddenly feel ALOT better about the depth (Stinnie, Neal, Ezeudu, Kubas, Schlottmann) as well.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
His last good year was 2020. That's an eternity ago. Whether it is injuries or anything else, he's done.
Oh, I am wrong. I thought this was Allen Robinson when people said A. Robinson. Lol
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
Quote:
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
If the most Neal is doing is jogging lightly on the side, he’s not that close to coming back anyway. And when he does, he has to get used to a new OL coach and get in game shape.
Sounds like they’re preparing accordingly
Quote:
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
I think it harsh to label the Neal pick a mistake. (Very few teams would have passed on him.)
But clearly he has been a disappointment.
Let's see if SOME of his natural talent can be salvaged.
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
Maybe those posters who say they don't understand about others thinking Runyan at LG will understand more now. 🤷🏽♂️
But, yes, get this shit settled.
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
The move isn't necessarily permanent. It's up to Neal.
It's uncharted territory for the Giants, but the NFL allows teams to have 7+ starter quality linemen.
@DDuggan21
·
6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
It's unbelievable. They just can't get off the merry-go-round.
I hope his days at RT are soon to restart because he gets healthy and shows enough to make Eluemunor first off the bench.
The important thing is the team is no longer relying on that.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
Yup. And we could have drafted Garrett Wilson instead.
Either Neal starts at RT and Eluemunor goes back to LG, or he stays at RT.
Did you hear how much they loved him on HK? He was their #1 rated OL.
He's arguably the 2nd best OL on the team behind Andrew Thomas.
@rydunleavy
·
5m
Aaron Robinson released. Last practiced in Nov 2022 before a devastating knee injury. Another empty RD3 pick #Giants
We also traded a fifth to move up and take him. But the cost was actually worth it. He could play. He just couldn't stay healthy. Nobody could have predicted what happened to him. Best wishes Aaron.
Quote:
In comment 16563393 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
^This. The signing is fine, but I'm dubious that a 34 year old guard many teams didn't want to retain is a starting caliber player.
3rd round pick, and 2+ years in, apparently unplayable even as a backup G. I'm surprised given what we heard about him when drafted.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Totally agree. No one beats the clock and at some point a player is going to see his skills decrease. Hopefully they can get a year out of him. What would be better is for Neal to fulfill his potential and get back on the field, pushing Van Roten into a veteran backup role.
So sad about Robinson. Unlike Neal he showed his potential and was denied the opportunity by what appears to have been a devastating knee injury.
Although I would caution that the Raiders run offense stats from last year were not good, lower than the Giants by a lot. Now maybe we got their only 2 good OL players, I hope so, but it does give me pause.
The epitome of atrocious play on the right side of the line last year was the play where Jones got hurt.
Bredeson gets rag dolled while Neal just kind of slaps at Crosby, and presumably they both blew their assignment on the stunt.
Anything north of that would be excellent news.
Yikes - ( New Window )
The epitome of atrocious play on the right side of the line last year was the play where Jones got hurt.
Bredeson gets rag dolled while Neal just kind of slaps at Crosby, and presumably they both blew their assignment on the stunt.
Anything north of that would be excellent news. Yikes - ( New Window )
Great follow up after my post about communication.
I wish we could draft offensive linemen better than we have in the last 15 years, but we gotta celebrate the small wins.
Until otherwise proven, Neal simply can't operate in tandem with the right guard.
This is triage time for them.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Remember when we passed on Andrew Whitworth?
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Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
He's 34 but he was a late bloomer. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 so really has the wear and tear of mid level 28 year old.
Agreed. And as someone who called for a 2000-like approach to the OL (when they brought in Lomas Brown, Parker, Zeigler & Stokes) I'm happy about it. A crew of lunchpail, scrappy vets to restore order.
He may or may not continue to start over GVR, but in any case they need the interior line insurance. Could be a combo of Bricillo saying "no thanks" to Ezeudu and/or having another guard in case one needs to shift over to center.
I had hoped Ezeudu would "get it" this year. But perhaps he and Neal will be allowed to develop from the backup position and not as liabilities on the field. Ezeudu does have good feet, so perhaps that are going to get him out there as a developing tackle.
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In comment 16563393 Eric from BBI said:
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Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
Van Roten is 34, Eluemunor 30 by the end of the season. If they can buy some time, hopefully Neal and/or Ezeuda can grow into starting roles.The pressure to step in immediately is off.
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice
https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
Does that seem like a good bet to hinge the season on?
Just so. And for the many who bemoan his age, more than any position on either side of the ball, OL is where guys can get to his age, hold their own or even get better. Plenty of examples of OL in their mid-30s who continue to be solid--to the all important point of cohesion, knowing the guy next to you, anticipating.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
Add in a vet center like connor Williams while we’re at it too. Totally agree about letting the 2 vegas guys play next to each other again, total no brainer even if runyan plays either side equally. Let him develop chemistry with thomas for 2-3 years.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At 7th overall no less. Makes us want to howl at the moon. But what is equally bothersome to me is JMS: like Neal, he was a no-brainer: position of extreme need, 'can't believe he was sitting there' in the 2nd round, supposedly high floor, both. It's almost as if JMS was 34 y/o in a 24 y/o body. While it is very difficult to second guess either pick given the scouting reports, the positional need, apparently the non-reach, there is a sameness of how these are playing out that demands a really hard look at what scouts are seeing and how they are evaluating.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
I agreed with you
Let's hope whatever they go with - they decide now and stick with it - as reps and continuity will be key, even with vets. And, yes, always hope for health.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
That's the corresponding point to my other comment. The Giants haven't had a shop where they develop lineman.
Over the last decade they've drafted plenty for need with high draft picks. Those draft picks have been slotted into play immediately, get banged up, they don't develop. And older arguably less talented players out perform them.
Andrew Thomas is the perfect outcome, but that's a white whale at this point.
I like the approach of having a veteran group that isn't learning on the job as the presumed starters, and then developing mid round players behind them.
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
I don’t mind drafting OL high - flowers, thomas, and Neal were all picks I was for. Need a better hit rate that high though. Before it became such a passing league OL was the least risky high pick but that doesn’t seem true anymore. Ekwonu has struggled too.
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
On paper a lot of players are the correct pick. Yes, injuries derail development. But it appears that they can no longer wait for Neal or Ezeudu to pick it up.
I know a lot of people, and I think Sy, would have gone Garrett Wilson at one of those two picks. But hindsight is always 20/20.
Personally, I never considered Wilson as the line was such a mess.
Just glad now that they are being aggressive with the oline revamp. Bricillo must have their ears.
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He’s getting the band back together
Although I would caution that the Raiders run offense stats from last year were not good, lower than the Giants by a lot. Now maybe we got their only 2 good OL players, I hope so, but it does give me pause.
The Giants got the 2 players that the Raiders chose not to re-sign.
I’d compare it to a minor league hitting prospect stepping up to face mlb pitching. All the tools in the world don’t prepare you for consistent mlb pitching even if you’ve faced guys like that at the minor league level. Your analogy works too - a minor league pitcher with great stuff but no sense of how to pitch bc they got by with stuff their whole lives.
@DDuggan21
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6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
+1
Enough of the merry-go-round.
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In comment 16563393 Eric from BBI said:
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Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Remember when we passed on Andrew Whitworth?
I said I was uncomfortable. I didn’t say I hated it. Whitworth was looking for a much bigger commitment than Van Roten.
Brilliant!
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.
The thing that kills me about Robinson...he's actually good. He just can't stay healthy. Frustrating AF.
I mean, he had a good camp in 2022, and looked good in the first game of the season, but based on that it's hard to say that he was a good player, IMO.
He said in high school ball, the kids with size who are athletic are all edge or defensive lineman. And the kids with size with less athleticism are offensive lineman. Because this is what the colleges want, as a way to adjust to quick concept offenses.
I think this tracks and is a little different than a generation ago when in the development process a high athleticism kid was earmarked as the left tackle at least.
So I think from a macro perspective there is a changing pipeline, a changing style of play, and a changing practice and development mentality.
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
Bredeson
Ezeudu
Pugh
McKethan
Glowinski
this year they are:
Runyan
Possibly Eluemunor
Van Roten
Stinne
Ezeudu
No all pro's, but this year's group is better.
I really thought Neal would be special, and I was so happy when we drafted him.
I really thought Neal would be special, and I was so happy when we drafted him.
I did too. I thought he would challenge Thomas for the left tackle position.
But Runyon told Schmeelk he’s “a lot more comfortable” at right guard. At 8:30 of the linked podcast.
Link - ( New Window )
Schoen is 0fer on OL draft picks to date. Hopefully JMS can put it together.
Quote: McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere./////////
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
As hard as it might be to stomach, many of us have pleaded that NYG need to seriously self-scout how wrong they have been on the OL and the why and how. So if Bricillo is driving this, so be it and a welcome bath of cold water.
But it's not going to be easy to re-build Rome in a day, dahling: did you notice how cautious Daboll was in handing out praise to Kubas in yesterday's presser? Smart, good enough movement, but a long way to go. I'm not sure if he was protecting his GM's OL line draft expertise (??), but let's don't put Kubas on the 53 just yet, maybe the PS.
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
McKethan is toast.
The staff seems to really love Ezudu at tackle; I think he's being targeted for top backup everywhere but center.
Yup….looks like Neal will be brought along even slower and may eventually get replaced if and when he returns. It’s sad that a high first round pick is struggling to play a position that he was thought very highly of coming out of college.
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
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to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
But Runyon told Schmeelk he’s “a lot more comfortable” at right guard. At 8:30 of the linked podcast. Link - ( New Window )
and about 15 seconds before that Schmelk says 'I interviewed you before and you said you felt more comfortable on the left side and that has caused a lot of controversy since you've been on the right side..."
Not sure what the truth is but let's just hope they get it right
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In comment 16563557 AcidTest said:
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
Penn alum unite ! What say you Milton, etc…. Hopefully he plays better than the that last stiff, Jeff Hatch.
So good for 7 games in a NYG jersey..
And more band-aids.
Giants just can’t build an o-line from the draft. How many GMs have failed?
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
A most ridiculous statement. Neal was the #1 OT on the Cowboys board - their #2 player behind Thibodeaux.
Did Schoen draft him? Yes. He was a solid choice at #7. That he hasn't panned out is part of the draft. He may still overcome his faults. It just shows what a crap shoot the draft is.
You make it sound like Schoen was stupid or ignorant for that pick. I guarantee you that if the Cowboys had him rated that high, so did most teams. The Cowboys rarely miss on oline.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
Well not "you guys," only the folks who believe in the infallibility of the coaches and the common man's inability to question or understand anything they do.
Now that it has happened it will have been the obvious right move, because the coaches did it.
In comment 16563710 Joey in VA said:
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Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
What is living on Hughes' right cheek?
Greg Van Roten - ( New Window )
Even with the prior starer additions (Runyan, Eluminor), the OL is still thin on talent and depth. Before this signing, they were an injury or two away from Ezudu at OT again 🤦🏻 (not everyone turns in to David Diehl), McKethan, and all the guys who've already proven they can't get it done. And FFS, maybe at least TRY Ezudu at OG at some point -- you know, the position he played well enough at in college that you spent a 3rd pick on him.
When there's a guy who upgrades your position who's available and affordable, you do it. I'm surprised it took so long after Van Roten visited.
Quote: He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH. /////////
Well not "you guys," only the folks who believe in the infallibility of the coaches and the common man's inability to question or understand anything they do.
Now that it has happened it will have been the obvious right move, because the coaches did it.
Not for nothing as it turns out, and I believe it was Runyon yesterday in his presser who said that the challenges of switching sides R to L or L to R are very much under appreciated and gave some granularity as to why. And we're here because of the unavailability of some of the pieces expected to be available. Hopefully, this all works out for the best, folks now here stay healthy and just sit Neal for the better part of the season.
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In comment 16563564 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16563557 AcidTest said:
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
Mike from Ohio : 1:28 pm : link : reply
In comment 16563397 JonC said:
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What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
And right on cue, not one but two posters jump in to pin a player's failure on one man.
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In comment 16563564 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16563557 AcidTest said:
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
In fairness, since then we've heard that multiple teams had him scouted that high. We saw with our own eyes that Dallas had him as the #1 OL on their board. So it's not like Schoen and Co. made some outlier mis-assessment of the guy's potential.
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In comment 16563762 mako J said:
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In comment 16563564 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16563557 AcidTest said:
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
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RE: Evan Neal
Mike from Ohio : 1:28 pm : link : reply
In comment 16563397 JonC said:
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What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
And right on cue, not one but two posters jump in to pin a player's failure on one man.
You don't know what you're talking about.
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Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
A most ridiculous statement. Neal was the #1 OT on the Cowboys board - their #2 player behind Thibodeaux.
Did Schoen draft him? Yes. He was a solid choice at #7. That he hasn't panned out is part of the draft. He may still overcome his faults. It just shows what a crap shoot the draft is.
You make it sound like Schoen was stupid or ignorant for that pick. I guarantee you that if the Cowboys had him rated that high, so did most teams. The Cowboys rarely miss on oline.
Was Ryan Leaf a good pick? No, but lot's of teams had him higher than Manning. Results dictate if the pick was good.
Sy noted that Neal wound up on the ground at the end of plays way more than any of the other top tackle prospects in college. If he noticed, you know other scouts noticed too. Neal was not a "can't miss" prospect.
That's not fair Ivan. The Raiders didn't choose not to re-sign. They were UFAs. The most you could say is they chose not to franchise tag.
I don’t think you can if he’s on PUP. And I doubt he has any value at this point.
If Neal being a bust isn't Schoen's fault, then whose is it? And this wasn't some flyer pick in the 3rd round. This is the 7th overall pick who can't even be a starter in his 3rd season. You want a standout player when picking that high...
I want Schoen to be successful here and am hopeful. But I'm still waiting for first truly impressive move.
I too want Schoen to succeed here. But I haven’t been blow away in his performance.
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Maybe by some miracle he still pans out but Schoen 100% deserves blame for the Neal pick. I don't care about his draft ranking or injuries, that is an enormous miss by Schoen.
A most ridiculous statement. Neal was the #1 OT on the Cowboys board - their #2 player behind Thibodeaux.
Did Schoen draft him? Yes. He was a solid choice at #7. That he hasn't panned out is part of the draft. He may still overcome his faults. It just shows what a crap shoot the draft is.
You make it sound like Schoen was stupid or ignorant for that pick. I guarantee you that if the Cowboys had him rated that high, so did most teams. The Cowboys rarely miss on oline.
Why does this matter? I have never understood this argument.
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What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
I suspect there's not a GM in the league who didn't think Neal was worth a top 10 pick. This site would have exploded if Schoen passed on him. Yet now Schoen is an idiot?
The draft ain't an exact science. And while many think Neal is a bust, we don't know what he could be if he can be healthy for a season with a good coach and a decent guard next to him.
I got scorched on this site for suggesting we had the opportunity to select Beede. Oh, well. Joe Schoen is flailing and failing to re-build his O-line for the long run. Right now, he’s just throwing old sandbags on the levee with the water still rising.
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In comment 16563397 JonC said:
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What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
I suspect there's not a GM in the league who didn't think Neal was worth a top 10 pick. This site would have exploded if Schoen passed on him. Yet now Schoen is an idiot?
The draft ain't an exact science. And while many think Neal is a bust, we don't know what he could be if he can be healthy for a season with a good coach and a decent guard next to him.
Just remember that when it comes to our o-line, Joe Schoen is on the hook for more than Evan Neal. A lot more.
If you can't field better than the worst line with those resources, ya gotta go.
The bar for 'better' is not very high.
https://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1818395679137390916
Sy had him at an 86, meaning a pro bowl guy.
Sometimes it happens.
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In comment 16563812 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16563397 JonC said:
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What a wasted pick, to this point.
That is going to go down as a very big whiff for Schoen.
I suspect there's not a GM in the league who didn't think Neal was worth a top 10 pick. This site would have exploded if Schoen passed on him. Yet now Schoen is an idiot?
The draft ain't an exact science. And while many think Neal is a bust, we don't know what he could be if he can be healthy for a season with a good coach and a decent guard next to him.
Just remember that when it comes to our o-line, Joe Schoen is on the hook for more than Evan Neal. A lot more.
Sure, as long as you remember he was saddled with Gettleman's scouts and their reports for the 2022 offseason (both draft and free agents). Not to mention one of the worst cap situations in the NFL.
So it's logical to assume Neal would have been taken top 10. McKethan was a later round dart throw. So Ezeudu is the most logical pick to question. Then you have Schmitz last year, who the final word is still out on. You can question the free agents his first two years, but what alternatives would you have signed instead for the same price? We'll also never know what last year might have looked like without the unbelievable number of injuries.
If Neal turns out okay, and none of us can know if he will or not, Schoen will have added four O line starters and at least three backups in three offseasons.
How so?
If you can't field better than the worst line with those resources, ya gotta go.
That's not a bad take...
You look @ it...right now, the best two dudes on the roster are Dex & AT. And both were drafted by the previous regime.
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The Giants got the 2 players that the Raiders chose not to re-sign.
That's not fair Ivan. The Raiders didn't choose not to re-sign. They were UFAs. The most you could say is they chose not to franchise tag.
It was still the Raiders choice. Eluemunor could have been had for just a bit more than the Giants offered. The price was low for a starting guard and tackle. I think the Raiders low balled or chose not to offer Van Roten what he wanted. Both decided to come home, although I think both would have stayed at something closer to their price.
Neal’s injury isn’t healing, for whatever reason.
Also, this doesn’t mean they won’t upgrade another position. I prefer especially on offense they bring in guys earlier then later due t the complexity of the system.
This is for 1 year.
Neal’s injury isn’t healing, for whatever reason.
Also, this doesn’t mean they won’t upgrade another position. I prefer especially on offense they bring in guys earlier then later due t the complexity of the system.
This is for 1 year.
I think the issue is encapsulated in your very last line: “This is for 1 year.”
It’s a stop-gap move for a GM who has not yet demonstrated he can build an o-line for the long term through the Draft!
Quote:
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
Snee and others seemed to age 3 years after the 2011-2012 season. Of course Jerry Reese tried to Band Aid things rather than full rebuild. I'm sure Mara's fingerprints were all over that plan, trying to be the first team to win a home Super Bowl with the opening of MetLife.
I like that they're taking a different approach; sign multiple "proven" (i.e. serviceable) veterans and not rely on mid / late round pick rookies.
Neal is in a different category. He was a consensus top 10 pick from a strong program (Alabama) in a strong conference (SEC). There was nothing wrong with the pick with the information available at the time.
Between the injuries, sub par offensive line coaching (apparently) and balance issues that have gone unresolved or worsened, the Giants just got mostly unlucky with Neal. I'm glad Neal at RT no longer appears to be "Plan A".
I’d feel better knowing Cager was not injured because I’m not sold on Bellinger. Hopeful for Theo….
I saved the “best” for last…..QB……Dabs, you are a genius with the playbook, but you still need the commander to make it work….please don’t delay the inevitable….make it so….
Quote:
I don’t understand, A Robinson had a devastating injury. There was a competent affordable average starter at a need.
Neal’s injury isn’t healing, for whatever reason.
Also, this doesn’t mean they won’t upgrade another position. I prefer especially on offense they bring in guys earlier then later due t the complexity of the system.
This is for 1 year.
I think the issue is encapsulated in your very last line: “This is for 1 year.”
It’s a stop-gap move for a GM who has not yet demonstrated he can build an o-line for the long term through the Draft!
Sure, nothing is proven yet. If you want to be annoyed that things are not proven yet, that's certainly a choice. I do not care *how* an effective offensive line is built. There isn't a team in the NFL that is doing it with 5 homegrown offensive linemen. It does not exist.
Not a favorable return on investment with drafted OL for this regime yet which has been a well over a decade problem.
Is this a case of desperate times requiring desperate solutions?
Hopefully the silver lining is this buys Bricillo time. Neal needs a lot of development work is my guess and obviously he can't get the full version on the sideline.
Quote:
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
The best thing that could happen to this team. They aren’t trying to accommodate Neal anymore. They needed to move on and just admit the mistake.
He's been hurt every year. Did he bang your mom? wtf. They had him play on a broken ankle. You and the other Neal haters go play OL on a broke ankle. Internet Rambo alert