Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
He's 34 but he was a late bloomer. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 so really has the wear and tear of mid level 28 year old.
Obvious signing - if jms is hurt I’d add connor Williams too
even a mediocre OL would be the biggest improvement to any position group in the nfl year over year. No more scholarships. Sign as many good players as possible let them fight for spots.
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
Agreed. And as someone who called for a 2000-like approach to the OL (when they brought in Lomas Brown, Parker, Zeigler & Stokes) I'm happy about it. A crew of lunchpail, scrappy vets to restore order.
He may or may not continue to start over GVR, but in any case they need the interior line insurance. Could be a combo of Bricillo saying "no thanks" to Ezeudu and/or having another guard in case one needs to shift over to center.
gives them at least solid depth and possibly a true starting guard. It also means there is some serious competition, for not only starting positions, but in actually making the team.
I had hoped Ezeudu would "get it" this year. But perhaps he and Neal will be allowed to develop from the backup position and not as liabilities on the field. Ezeudu does have good feet, so perhaps that are going to get him out there as a developing tackle.
Last year we kept trying to hold the wall together with rusty bolts that were already heavily flawed. We just kept trying to make it work. Now we are making moves. Credit needs to be acknowledged were it's due. Ezeudu didn't develop, and perhaps Neal once healthy becomes your swing tackle at least a rotational piece, but now you have more options and more depth. We had NOTHING last year even close to this. This is LIGHT years ahead of where we were last year and I will take it. This is very encouraging. We don't have to be best in the league, just give our explosive WRs time to make plays and give our QB time to make reads without running for his life as soon as the ball is snapped!
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
Van Roten is 34, Eluemunor 30 by the end of the season. If they can buy some time, hopefully Neal and/or Ezeuda can grow into starting roles.The pressure to step in immediately is off.
Are both stop gap players. The Giants can get out of the Elemeunor contract next offseason and Van Roten will only be signed for this year. Hopefully one of Ezeudu or Neal can develop into a quality starter for next season.
The most logical approach is starting him at RG and moving Runyan
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
The name of the game is to function at this point. Evan Neal needs to both return to health and exhibit he can reliably play above horrendous football.
Does that seem like a good bet to hinge the season on?
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
with this signing. I get it. What I will say is that having a vet who know the techinques and calls and knows how to play next to Eluemunor is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Don't look at this like 1 isolated player. Look at this like the glue that holds this unit together. What it does is give us options. Either he can play RG next to Eluemunor or Neal kicks ass and Eluemunor moves down to RG, assuming Runyan moves and stays at LG. It is the most logical move. Worst case is he provides solid depth on the interior. Best case is he starts and allows our OL to function. Just think back to all those years with the lack of communication and how we cannot pick up stunts. That should be a thing if the past with him if he's out there with Eluemunor.
Just so. And for the many who bemoan his age, more than any position on either side of the ball, OL is where guys can get to his age, hold their own or even get better. Plenty of examples of OL in their mid-30s who continue to be solid--to the all important point of cohesion, knowing the guy next to you, anticipating.
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
Add in a vet center like connor Williams while we’re at it too. Totally agree about letting the 2 vegas guys play next to each other again, total no brainer even if runyan plays either side equally. Let him develop chemistry with thomas for 2-3 years.
At 7th overall no less. Makes us want to howl at the moon. But what is equally bothersome to me is JMS: like Neal, he was a no-brainer: position of extreme need, 'can't believe he was sitting there' in the 2nd round, supposedly high floor, both. It's almost as if JMS was 34 y/o in a 24 y/o body. While it is very difficult to second guess either pick given the scouting reports, the positional need, apparently the non-reach, there is a sameness of how these are playing out that demands a really hard look at what scouts are seeing and how they are evaluating.
Health is a huge factor in the development of the lineman Schoen has drafted. They simply haven't been on the field enough to work through the growing pains.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Health is a huge factor in the development of the lineman Schoen has drafted. They simply haven't been on the field enough to work through the growing pains.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
He would not rule out moving Runyon back to Left Guard after this signing.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
I agreed with you
Let's hope whatever they go with - they decide now and stick with it - as reps and continuity will be key, even with vets. And, yes, always hope for health.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
Health is a huge factor in the development of the lineman Schoen has drafted. They simply haven't been on the field enough to work through the growing pains.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
That's the corresponding point to my other comment. The Giants haven't had a shop where they develop lineman.
Over the last decade they've drafted plenty for need with high draft picks. Those draft picks have been slotted into play immediately, get banged up, they don't develop. And older arguably less talented players out perform them.
Andrew Thomas is the perfect outcome, but that's a white whale at this point.
I like the approach of having a veteran group that isn't learning on the job as the presumed starters, and then developing mid round players behind them.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
I don’t mind drafting OL high - flowers, thomas, and Neal were all picks I was for. Need a better hit rate that high though. Before it became such a passing league OL was the least risky high pick but that doesn’t seem true anymore. Ekwonu has struggled too.
to HS pitchers drafted high because they can fire fastballs > 100 mph and have sharp breaking curves. Then they break in and break down. So are these 'can't miss' OL overdeveloped in the college weight rooms and dominate their college competition, leading to high day 1 or day 2 grades, but then going against competitive NFL opponents, the accelerated development just wilts, for early years at least.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
On paper a lot of players are the correct pick. Yes, injuries derail development. But it appears that they can no longer wait for Neal or Ezeudu to pick it up.
I know a lot of people, and I think Sy, would have gone Garrett Wilson at one of those two picks. But hindsight is always 20/20.
Personally, I never considered Wilson as the line was such a mess.
Just glad now that they are being aggressive with the oline revamp. Bricillo must have their ears.
Although I would caution that the Raiders run offense stats from last year were not good, lower than the Giants by a lot. Now maybe we got their only 2 good OL players, I hope so, but it does give me pause.
_____________
The Giants got the 2 players that the Raiders chose not to re-sign.
to HS pitchers drafted high because they can fire fastballs > 100 mph and have sharp breaking curves. Then they break in and break down. So are these 'can't miss' OL overdeveloped in the college weight rooms and dominate their college competition, leading to high day 1 or day 2 grades, but then going against competitive NFL opponents, the accelerated development just wilts, for early years at least.
I’d compare it to a minor league hitting prospect stepping up to face mlb pitching. All the tools in the world don’t prepare you for consistent mlb pitching even if you’ve faced guys like that at the minor league level. Your analogy works too - a minor league pitcher with great stuff but no sense of how to pitch bc they got by with stuff their whole lives.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
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6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Remember when we passed on Andrew Whitworth?
______________
I said I was uncomfortable. I didn’t say I hated it. Whitworth was looking for a much bigger commitment than Van Roten.
The thing that kills me about Robinson...he's actually good. He just can't stay healthy. Frustrating AF.
I mean, he had a good camp in 2022, and looked good in the first game of the season, but based on that it's hard to say that he was a good player, IMO.
The tight end coach under Judge, whose name escapes me, in a really candid press conference towards the end made a great point.
He said in high school ball, the kids with size who are athletic are all edge or defensive lineman. And the kids with size with less athleticism are offensive lineman. Because this is what the colleges want, as a way to adjust to quick concept offenses.
I think this tracks and is a little different than a generation ago when in the development process a high athleticism kid was earmarked as the left tackle at least.
So I think from a macro perspective there is a changing pipeline, a changing style of play, and a changing practice and development mentality.
McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere.
McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere.
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
to LG where he's most comfortable. Van Roten played all year next to Elumanor. It's a net gain across the entire line with one signing. Dicking around outside of that is going to put this team in the same spot it's been in, with moving guys around too much and not gaining cohesion.
But Runyon told Schmeelk he’s “a lot more comfortable” at right guard. At 8:30 of the linked podcast. Link - ( New Window )
Quote: McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere./////////
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
As hard as it might be to stomach, many of us have pleaded that NYG need to seriously self-scout how wrong they have been on the OL and the why and how. So if Bricillo is driving this, so be it and a welcome bath of cold water.
But it's not going to be easy to re-build Rome in a day, dahling: did you notice how cautious Daboll was in handing out praise to Kubas in yesterday's presser? Smart, good enough movement, but a long way to go. I'm not sure if he was protecting his GM's OL line draft expertise (??), but let's don't put Kubas on the 53 just yet, maybe the PS.
Connor Hughes
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere.
McKethan is toast.
The staff seems to really love Ezudu at tackle; I think he's being targeted for top backup everywhere but center.
Van Roten's wife was my kid's elementary school teacher.
Yup….looks like Neal will be brought along even slower and may eventually get replaced if and when he returns. It’s sad that a high first round pick is struggling to play a position that he was thought very highly of coming out of college.
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Remember when we passed on Andrew Whitworth?
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
He's 34 but he was a late bloomer. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 so really has the wear and tear of mid level 28 year old.
Agreed. And as someone who called for a 2000-like approach to the OL (when they brought in Lomas Brown, Parker, Zeigler & Stokes) I'm happy about it. A crew of lunchpail, scrappy vets to restore order.
He may or may not continue to start over GVR, but in any case they need the interior line insurance. Could be a combo of Bricillo saying "no thanks" to Ezeudu and/or having another guard in case one needs to shift over to center.
I had hoped Ezeudu would "get it" this year. But perhaps he and Neal will be allowed to develop from the backup position and not as liabilities on the field. Ezeudu does have good feet, so perhaps that are going to get him out there as a developing tackle.
Quote:
In comment 16563393 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
_______________
I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
The good news is our OL coach knows him intimately.
However, you are correct. He's 34 and has played for a ton of teams that have not wanted to retain him.
Van Roten is 34, Eluemunor 30 by the end of the season. If they can buy some time, hopefully Neal and/or Ezeuda can grow into starting roles.The pressure to step in immediately is off.
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice
https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
Does that seem like a good bet to hinge the season on?
Just so. And for the many who bemoan his age, more than any position on either side of the ball, OL is where guys can get to his age, hold their own or even get better. Plenty of examples of OL in their mid-30s who continue to be solid--to the all important point of cohesion, knowing the guy next to you, anticipating.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
Add in a vet center like connor Williams while we’re at it too. Totally agree about letting the 2 vegas guys play next to each other again, total no brainer even if runyan plays either side equally. Let him develop chemistry with thomas for 2-3 years.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At 7th overall no less. Makes us want to howl at the moon. But what is equally bothersome to me is JMS: like Neal, he was a no-brainer: position of extreme need, 'can't believe he was sitting there' in the 2nd round, supposedly high floor, both. It's almost as if JMS was 34 y/o in a 24 y/o body. While it is very difficult to second guess either pick given the scouting reports, the positional need, apparently the non-reach, there is a sameness of how these are playing out that demands a really hard look at what scouts are seeing and how they are evaluating.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
Making Elemenour the RT.
And you guys RIPPED me for my thread about playing our O line at the natural positions SMH.
I agreed with you
Let's hope whatever they go with - they decide now and stick with it - as reps and continuity will be key, even with vets. And, yes, always hope for health.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
An older gets banged up, and it's just a matter of time missed. He's not learning how to play. When a younger guy gets hurt it compounds.
Truthfully they’ve helped the team the most when they’ve been unhealthy. Phillips and bredeson were consistently better off the bench.
That's the corresponding point to my other comment. The Giants haven't had a shop where they develop lineman.
Over the last decade they've drafted plenty for need with high draft picks. Those draft picks have been slotted into play immediately, get banged up, they don't develop. And older arguably less talented players out perform them.
Andrew Thomas is the perfect outcome, but that's a white whale at this point.
I like the approach of having a veteran group that isn't learning on the job as the presumed starters, and then developing mid round players behind them.
Quote:
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
I don’t mind drafting OL high - flowers, thomas, and Neal were all picks I was for. Need a better hit rate that high though. Before it became such a passing league OL was the least risky high pick but that doesn’t seem true anymore. Ekwonu has struggled too.
Quote:
of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
By a wide margin their greatest failure. Neal over Garrett Wilson is painful.
100%. I'm much preferred the old Giants approach of developing vs. drafting lineman.
In the 10 drafts preceding the 2007 championship, they drafted offensive lineman twice in the top 100. Petitgout and Hatch. And the first order of business in really getting that line cooking was cutting Petitgout.
There is whole pile of draft what ifs related to drafted lineman for need.
And I personally thought Neal was a great pick at that the time. But the trend is alarming.
On paper a lot of players are the correct pick. Yes, injuries derail development. But it appears that they can no longer wait for Neal or Ezeudu to pick it up.
I know a lot of people, and I think Sy, would have gone Garrett Wilson at one of those two picks. But hindsight is always 20/20.
Personally, I never considered Wilson as the line was such a mess.
Just glad now that they are being aggressive with the oline revamp. Bricillo must have their ears.
Quote:
He’s getting the band back together
Although I would caution that the Raiders run offense stats from last year were not good, lower than the Giants by a lot. Now maybe we got their only 2 good OL players, I hope so, but it does give me pause.
The Giants got the 2 players that the Raiders chose not to re-sign.
I’d compare it to a minor league hitting prospect stepping up to face mlb pitching. All the tools in the world don’t prepare you for consistent mlb pitching even if you’ve faced guys like that at the minor league level. Your analogy works too - a minor league pitcher with great stuff but no sense of how to pitch bc they got by with stuff their whole lives.
@DDuggan21
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6s
Daboll wouldn’t rule out shifting Jon Runyan from RG to LG. Would make sense to reunite Eluemunor and Van Roten on the right side and put Runyan on his preferred side.
Not ideal to have so many moving pieces on the line, but at least it’s early.
+1
Enough of the merry-go-round.
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In comment 16563393 Eric from BBI said:
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Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
The Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten. An obvious fit for both sides: Van Roten should step in as a starting guard, which has been the biggest question mark on the line.
The 34-year-old Van Roten has made 71 career starts, including all 17 games at right guard last season with the Raiders for Giants’ O-line coach Carmen Bricillo. Van Roten has played both guard spots throughout his winding career that began in 2012.
This signing is further evidence that Jermaine Eluemunor’s shift to right tackle is permanent.
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I am very uncomfortable with signing 30+ year old offensive linemen, especially as starters. At some point, everyone reaches the edge of the cliff. If only for one year, I guess it’s a wait and see approach.
Remember when we passed on Andrew Whitworth?
I said I was uncomfortable. I didn’t say I hated it. Whitworth was looking for a much bigger commitment than Van Roten.
Brilliant!
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The thing that kills me about Robinson...he's actually good. He just can't stay healthy. Frustrating AF.
I mean, he had a good camp in 2022, and looked good in the first game of the season, but based on that it's hard to say that he was a good player, IMO.
He said in high school ball, the kids with size who are athletic are all edge or defensive lineman. And the kids with size with less athleticism are offensive lineman. Because this is what the colleges want, as a way to adjust to quick concept offenses.
I think this tracks and is a little different than a generation ago when in the development process a high athleticism kid was earmarked as the left tackle at least.
So I think from a macro perspective there is a changing pipeline, a changing style of play, and a changing practice and development mentality.
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
Bredeson
Ezeudu
Pugh
McKethan
Glowinski
this year they are:
Runyan
Possibly Eluemunor
Van Roten
Stinne
Ezeudu
No all pro's, but this year's group is better.
I really thought Neal would be special, and I was so happy when we drafted him.
I really thought Neal would be special, and I was so happy when we drafted him.
I did too. I thought he would challenge Thomas for the left tackle position.
But Runyon told Schmeelk he’s “a lot more comfortable” at right guard. At 8:30 of the linked podcast.
Link - ( New Window )
Schoen is 0fer on OL draft picks to date. Hopefully JMS can put it together.
Quote: McKettan is toast and Ezeudu may have a hard time making the 53. Good reports on Kubas so far. Nelson and Neal still out there are swing tackles, if healthy. If we're not giving scholarships, E needs to step up soon, or he's the new Bredeson-versatile, but not very good anywhere./////////
I was about to say something similar … Bricillo took a look at Ezeudu and McKethan and said NFW … Kubas May get a chance to learn behind Van Roten… and for you depth guys; remember that Runyan was a stud LT at Michigan for 2 years. He could probably go back there in an emergency pinch if needed.
As hard as it might be to stomach, many of us have pleaded that NYG need to seriously self-scout how wrong they have been on the OL and the why and how. So if Bricillo is driving this, so be it and a welcome bath of cold water.
But it's not going to be easy to re-build Rome in a day, dahling: did you notice how cautious Daboll was in handing out praise to Kubas in yesterday's presser? Smart, good enough movement, but a long way to go. I'm not sure if he was protecting his GM's OL line draft expertise (??), but let's don't put Kubas on the 53 just yet, maybe the PS.
@Connor_J_Hughes
Some thoughts on Greg Van Roten signing with #Giants while walking out to camp practice https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1818292496222331016 - ( New Window )
McKethan is toast.
The staff seems to really love Ezudu at tackle; I think he's being targeted for top backup everywhere but center.
Yup….looks like Neal will be brought along even slower and may eventually get replaced if and when he returns. It’s sad that a high first round pick is struggling to play a position that he was thought very highly of coming out of college.
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of now, we haven't gotten anything from Neal, Ezeudu, or McKethan. That's on Schoen.
The fact that we have to hope that our OL will be "average" and "functional" is proof of how bad it has been for more than 10 years.
But some here keep arguing that Joe is doing a bang up job. I don't see it. At all.
At this point, after what we've all seen via Hard Knocks, and what most should know from general football knowledge, if this is your take, you must have an agenda.
Schoen takes a collaborative approach to nearly every aspect of scouting and player procurement. As do most GM's in the sport. In addition, a player's success is equally dependent on the player, the coaching, the roster (# of reps), and injury luck.