Defenses are hamstrung, because of the rules now and officiating. You HAVE to be able to score over 25 pts a game to win consistently.
So as much as it pains me, I'd rather have a high scoring offense. Defenses aren't allowed to be "bone crunching" anymore, you want more of a ball hawk defense that gets turnovers. Possessions win games now...the more you have with a high power offense, the more likely are you to win.
The answer is defense. We ain’t winning shit without a great impactful defense.
You can be a student of history and also know that what was true 30 years ago doesn't consider how the league *today* works.
All six of the last six Super Bowl champions had an offense ranked higher than defense, and that gap between rankings has increased in each of the last three years with the 2020 Buccaneers (offense +5 over defense), 2021 Rams (+8) and culminating with the 2022 Chiefs who were ranked #1 on offense and # 16 on defense. The average offense is ranked almost 6 spots higher than the average defense for a Super Bowl winner since 2017 (Offense 3.8, Defense 9.5). Five of the six last winners had a top 5 offense (2017 Eagles 3rd, 2018 Patriots 4th, 2019 Chiefs 5th, 2020 Bucs 3rd, and the 2022 Chiefs 1st). The only team not in the top five were the 2021 Rams, but their offense (7th) was still ranked 8 spots ahead of their defense.
offense with that primarily uses the RB's for production (Like Det. and SF) and has a physicality to it. Pass game that lives in the intermediate range with enough deep shots. PA emphasized with QB under center more. Then a D that features plenty of front 7 impact players that excels stopping the run.
This regime is the opposite of what I prefer on offense and D is still a TBD.
The equally dumb counter is that offense is the answer for the generation raised on Madden and Fantasy games. These are personal opinions, nothing more.
RE: The default answer should be offense in today's NFL
but there's more to it. The top 5 defenses last year:
-Ravens
-Chiefs
-49ers
-Bills
-Cowboys
Dolphins were the #1 offense and got steamrolled in the wildcard by the Chiefs. You can't win with just one unit being a strength.
No one who choose offense said defense isn't important. I think you need quality on both sides of the ball.
But if it's a binary choice, having a prolific offense is a bigger deal in today's game. And that's because it implies you have solved for the most critical position. Who doesn't want that?
The equally dumb counter is that offense is the answer for the generation raised on Madden and Fantasy games. These are personal opinions, nothing more.
Madden and fantasy have nothing to do with it.
You can get by with an average defense and a prolific offense. Your job is a lot harder if you have an average offense and prolific defense.
I'm a parameter play guy so of course I pick offense. There's no such thing as a bone crushing defense now in the NFL anyway.
And even in the 90s, remember the Giants had a top 15 all time defense and their best statistical defense ever in 1993 and got curb stomped by 49ers when it mattered.
And just like that it becomes another DJ thread....
Whining about Jones on the Schoen thread, the camp threads, the Devito thread and the hard knocks thread simply aren’t enough. We need to whine on the offense/defense thread as well.
The equally dumb counter is that offense is the answer for the generation raised on Madden and Fantasy games. These are personal opinions, nothing more.
I'd rather base my answer on those things than what was true in my grandpappy's time.
holding SF to 3.5 ypc which was 1.3 yards less than in season averages. CM finished at 3.6 ypc (season was 5.4). This put a lot more pressure on Purdy.
Spags fairly recently discussed the Giants in 2007 holding the Pats to 2.8 ypc on 16 carries in the SB as being very under rated.
2013 Seattle did too. 2007 and 2011 Giants won thanks to a great postseason defense. 2017 Eagles ranked 4th in team defense and based on this page I checked 7th in offense.
Team defense can still win it all. You need to be good on both sides of the ball, great on one side and decent enough on specials. The formula hasn't changed even if the game has.
Multiple NFC titles and division titles and constant consistency.
Oh I forgot it’s Super Bowl or nothing. Good luck with that mindset.
Nobody remembers division titles and Super Bowl runner ups.
The goal is to win championships, this is the NFL not college football. If the ceiling for a team with an average offense and elite defense is some division titles and a couple of Super Bowl losses, wouldn’t the answer to the question be elite offense?
call it a platitude, I don't care, I will die on the hill that insists the NY Giants don't win fuck all unless their defense is awesome. The game has changed some, but I don't think it has changed THAT much. How many great defense first teams won it in the 80s? Not that many but some. Bears. Giants. That's it. Same as today. Most of the time the sexy star QB is the guy winning it but those teams don't win without a very good or even great D.
Also, the Niners offense was excellent last season.
the football gods, the friggin holy ghost, I don't care what it is, all I know is this franchise has been and will be cursed until they put a really good fucking defense out on the field. Can we win first before we talk about February? Let's win a division title first. And yes, I do remember every single one in franchise history and we all should. They never happen anymore.
Only way to win in February is to get to January. I just gave you teams that won thx to defense. It most definitely carries teams to an NFL title. And find me one team that ever won a super bowl with a shit defense. You won't. Even the 06 Colts got it right by January.
9 of the top 10 offenses in 2023 made the playoffs.
10 of the top 11 offenses in 2022 made the playoffs.
8 of the top 10 offenses in 2021 made the playoffs.
You can’t win a Super Bowl without getting to January, and a top end offense is how you survive the attrition and flukiness of an NFL season. Once you get to January, with the exception of teams that have had a Brady or Mahomes, it’s mostly a lottery ticket.
Is stickier year to year. The best offenses tend to be the best offenses year over year. Most of often that’s because of the QB but occasionally an elite OL married with a talented play caller. Defenses tend to be up and down year to year. Eagles and Niners had two of the best defenses a couple years ago. Eagles d was maybe the worst in football at the tail end of last year and the niners d was average. Defenses are too vulnerable to player turnover and injuries and sometimes turnover luck.
has benefitted a bit from who it has played in the SB's imv. They haven't had to face an elite QB (at least in big games) and the one time they did they lost although it wouldn't have mattered that particular day. NFC needs to step up its game. SF wasn't a great D in the playoffs.
After the beat down Tampa gave the Chiefs it looked to me like the Chiefs put a lot of resources into the D and OL while getting rid of potential future HOF WR.
RE: 2015 Denver won it all on the backs of a great D
2013 Seattle did too. 2007 and 2011 Giants won thanks to a great postseason defense. 2017 Eagles ranked 4th in team defense and based on this page I checked 7th in offense.
Team defense can still win it all. You need to be good on both sides of the ball, great on one side and decent enough on specials. The formula hasn't changed even if the game has.
You've made it clear you love defense.
So, can we conclude you'd rather have the prolific D over the prolific O with the franchise QB situation solved...?
Touche!
So, I will take the offense.
So as much as it pains me, I'd rather have a high scoring offense. Defenses aren't allowed to be "bone crunching" anymore, you want more of a ball hawk defense that gets turnovers. Possessions win games now...the more you have with a high power offense, the more likely are you to win.
So, I will take the offense.
And just like that it becomes another DJ thread....
I reminisce the Giants Ds of old...
Adapt or die.
I'd love to be innovative, but that might be asking too much from this organization.
Quote:
suggests we have - likely - a real franchise QB.
So, I will take the offense.
And just like that it becomes another DJ thread....
So triggered.
That moves the chains. I keep hearing about how the game has changed, it has, but "at the end of the day", it's still about blockin' & tacklin'.
DEE - FENSE boom boom … DEE - FENSE boom boom ….
The answer is defense. We ain’t winning shit without a great impactful defense.
The answer is defense. We ain’t winning shit without a great impactful defense.
You can be a student of history and also know that what was true 30 years ago doesn't consider how the league *today* works.
All six of the last six Super Bowl champions had an offense ranked higher than defense, and that gap between rankings has increased in each of the last three years with the 2020 Buccaneers (offense +5 over defense), 2021 Rams (+8) and culminating with the 2022 Chiefs who were ranked #1 on offense and # 16 on defense. The average offense is ranked almost 6 spots higher than the average defense for a Super Bowl winner since 2017 (Offense 3.8, Defense 9.5). Five of the six last winners had a top 5 offense (2017 Eagles 3rd, 2018 Patriots 4th, 2019 Chiefs 5th, 2020 Bucs 3rd, and the 2022 Chiefs 1st). The only team not in the top five were the 2021 Rams, but their offense (7th) was still ranked 8 spots ahead of their defense.
If you're no
Quote:
suggests we have - likely - a real franchise QB.
So, I will take the offense.
And just like that it becomes another DJ thread....
Isn't that what a prolific offense implies? That there is a high end QB getting it done?
What do you think prolific means? To me, it means we are one of the highest scoring teams in the league...
This regime is the opposite of what I prefer on offense and D is still a TBD.
-Ravens
-Chiefs
-49ers
-Bills
-Cowboys
Dolphins were the #1 offense and got steamrolled in the wildcard by the Chiefs. You can't win with just one unit being a strength.
The equally dumb counter is that offense is the answer for the generation raised on Madden and Fantasy games. These are personal opinions, nothing more.
-Ravens
-Chiefs
-49ers
-Bills
-Cowboys
Dolphins were the #1 offense and got steamrolled in the wildcard by the Chiefs. You can't win with just one unit being a strength.
No one who choose offense said defense isn't important. I think you need quality on both sides of the ball.
But if it's a binary choice, having a prolific offense is a bigger deal in today's game. And that's because it implies you have solved for the most critical position. Who doesn't want that?
Quote:
For the Jones gang.
The equally dumb counter is that offense is the answer for the generation raised on Madden and Fantasy games. These are personal opinions, nothing more.
Madden and fantasy have nothing to do with it.
You can get by with an average defense and a prolific offense. Your job is a lot harder if you have an average offense and prolific defense.
Sorry things have changed since the 90s
And even in the 90s, remember the Giants had a top 15 all time defense and their best statistical defense ever in 1993 and got curb stomped by 49ers when it mattered.
Quote:
suggests we have - likely - a real franchise QB.
So, I will take the offense.
And just like that it becomes another DJ thread....
Whining about Jones on the Schoen thread, the camp threads, the Devito thread and the hard knocks thread simply aren’t enough. We need to whine on the offense/defense thread as well.
Quote:
For the Jones gang.
The equally dumb counter is that offense is the answer for the generation raised on Madden and Fantasy games. These are personal opinions, nothing more.
I'd rather base my answer on those things than what was true in my grandpappy's time.
You can get by with an average defense and a prolific offense. Your job is a lot harder if you have an average offense and prolific defense.
Sorry things have changed since the 90s
And, hypothetically, if your plan is to have an average offense and dominant defense, it would make sense to have a CHEAP average offense.
who remembers this? - ( New Window )
That was almost 20 years ago. Times have changed.
What has San frans great defense won them?
Quote:
suggests we have - likely - a real franchise QB.
So, I will take the offense.
And just like that it becomes another DJ thread....
You're the first person(?) who mentioned him.
Bone crushing defense is too likely to end up in 15 yard penalties.
But it's not about bone crushing any more. It's about pressuring the quarterback.
Spags fairly recently discussed the Giants in 2007 holding the Pats to 2.8 ypc on 16 carries in the SB as being very under rated.
Quote:
we don't win the superbowl in 07
That was almost 20 years ago. Times have changed.
What has San frans great defense won them?
Multiple NFC titles and division titles and constant consistency.
Oh I forgot it’s Super Bowl or nothing. Good luck with that mindset.
Team defense can still win it all. You need to be good on both sides of the ball, great on one side and decent enough on specials. The formula hasn't changed even if the game has.
Quote:
In comment 16564599 Grey Pilgrim said:
Quote:
we don't win the superbowl in 07
That was almost 20 years ago. Times have changed.
What has San frans great defense won them?
Multiple NFC titles and division titles and constant consistency.
Oh I forgot it’s Super Bowl or nothing. Good luck with that mindset.
Nobody remembers division titles and Super Bowl runner ups.
The goal is to win championships, this is the NFL not college football. If the ceiling for a team with an average offense and elite defense is some division titles and a couple of Super Bowl losses, wouldn’t the answer to the question be elite offense?
Also, the Niners offense was excellent last season.
If they keep doing that, they will continue to be be serious contenders
Only way to win in February is to get to January. I just gave you teams that won thx to defense. It most definitely carries teams to an NFL title. And find me one team that ever won a super bowl with a shit defense. You won't. Even the 06 Colts got it right by January.
10 of the top 11 offenses in 2022 made the playoffs.
8 of the top 10 offenses in 2021 made the playoffs.
You can’t win a Super Bowl without getting to January, and a top end offense is how you survive the attrition and flukiness of an NFL season. Once you get to January, with the exception of teams that have had a Brady or Mahomes, it’s mostly a lottery ticket.
After the beat down Tampa gave the Chiefs it looked to me like the Chiefs put a lot of resources into the D and OL while getting rid of potential future HOF WR.
Team defense can still win it all. You need to be good on both sides of the ball, great on one side and decent enough on specials. The formula hasn't changed even if the game has.
You've made it clear you love defense.
So, can we conclude you'd rather have the prolific D over the prolific O with the franchise QB situation solved...?