because confirmed and perceived as irreparable sucktitude usually doesn't manifest overnight. It can take weeks. A team can win a game despite bad play. The QB can get lucky for a few weeks. Things tend to slowly manifest and if the team steals a few games early the staff will likely want to exhaust ever means possible to get Jones cranked up before they bench him for a journeyman like Lock. Again, context matters here. This isn't 2019 where Eli was coming off a decent but flawed 2018 season AND the Giants had the first round QB waiting to play. Yes Jones sucked last season. Even if the team was a mess, Jones struggled and didn't help matters. 100% true he sucked but there is no hot shot QB on the bench. There's Drew Lock and Cutlets. If one or both start showing more in practice the staff will move to that better option problem is they aren't any good either. If Jones is a train wreck week after week and the backups still look like backups I think they bench Jones anyway, but it might take a little longer. So I say if Jones is up and down with a lot of concerning moments, he gets to about week 8 but that's if the team is losing along the way.
As long as the NYG are in the playoff hunt he plays.
If the NYG are out of the playoff hunt, I'd expect to see Lock or Devito put in due to the injury payout clause in his contract, even if he was playing well. But, other than that, Jones plays, even if he plays poorly.
Not a fan but the more I read here how bad he is, the more I think he’ll do alot better than expected. The key for him is staying healthy. If he’s healthy, and can run the ball when he needs to, I think he can have a good year.
I think if we're 1-3 or 0-4 going into the Seattle game on 10.6, a diff QB starts that game. If that's the case, we are looking at another terrible 5-6 win season and there is no point in playing him considering the injury factor contract thing of his going into the next season.
I think he would get 5-7. But with that out there, I think it may be more like 2-4. I can see a scenario where Nabers is getting open repeatedly and DJ isn't getting the ball to him and Daboll makes the change
he's starting out in camp with a very familiar pattern
I really do think this is his final season -- but unless he gets injured or the season is way out of hand -- as in the playoffs are unreachable and we are headed for a top ten pick again -- I do not think he will be benched
I think the leash is longer than lot of people think as long as we are winning games and are in the playoff hunt... If we are out the playoff hunt in October/November I think the leash shortens up... I can't imagine they will bench Jones if he is healthy early in the season...They are too committed to him... whether that is the right approach is another question...
The Vikings will be one of the softer opponents on the schedule, at home, not on primetime. I'm particularly curious about this game because Jones's home splits have been strangly worse throughout his career.
Can't think of a better launch point for DJ's turnaround. If they lose and he looks bad, I have a hard time imagining him getting out the hole.
if we can’t get a win after playing Darnold/McCarthy and Daniels, it’ll pretty much be over if we then fall to 0-3 against the Browns. It’s basically season over and there’s no more reason to play him.
Will he get a longer leash if the team manages to win some games even if he's playing poorly? Coughlin pulled the plug on Warner in 2004 when the team was 5-4, but they had Eli waiting in the wings. There's no golden boy #2 this time.
continues, the leash will be short. 3 games maybe?
The Giants aren't going to risk paying that injury guarantee waiting for him to "turn it around".
I made this comment in another thread and am going to stand by it, I've overreacted to what I've seen in camp before, I'll wait until he looks like this in live game action (I would count pre-season) before I get too excited, but he needs to play better than what's been reported.
I am not sure whether this is serious question or just a rhetorical question designed as click bait. HTF does anybody know. It will depend on how well he plays and how well the Giants do as a team. I suspect he's not on a leash at all unless he does really poorly or gets hurt but that probably goes for most starting QBs in the NFL. And other than the final three games he played last year when he was the most pressured QB literally in the history of the NFL, Jones never played anywhere near that poorly. Obviously he was never great, but you don't bench your starter because he's not great.
Meanwhile, anyone pretending that Drew Lock is in anyway going to bail the team out is living in some fantasy world. He's here literally as an emergency replacement who gives the Giants a chance to win if Jones gets hurt. And rather than secretly hoping he plays one would think in a sane world every one here who claims to be a Giants fan should be hoping that Jones can stay healthy and plays closer to his 2022 level.
Belichick liked to say every year, you don't know what you have in your team until Thanksgiving, but I think teams today, especially losing teams, will not be that patient, so I say 8 games.
but that's just a measurement point. if he and the team are doing well (subjective) he stays at QB.
This is all predicated on his health which is obviously not a reliable variable, so obviously if he's hurt that changes.
Looked at from another angle, generally NFL teams bench their QBs when a) the team is losing and b) the QB is turning the ball over. I've actually never heard of a QB being benched whether winning or losing because their downfield completion rate wasn't high enough! One also gets the feeling that the Giants aren't really going to be running a traditional vertical type passing game this year but more of a spread the field, get the ball in the hands of the playmakers approach.
I have the Giants winning 4-6 games in 2024 but two of those games are the first two of the season.
So if the Giants lose those two and he is terrible, than Lock or DeVito will become the starter and DJ becomes the permanent backup for the rest of the season to avoid injury settlement. If DJ plays to his middling ceiling in those two games, than he will be the starter through the bye week as long as he remains true to his middling self. If he is terrible for any two consecutive games prior to the bye, than I believe he will be benched to see what we have in Lock and/or DeVito for the rest of the way.
After the bye week, the Giants would be nuts to play DJ unless they are still in playoff contention, which I highly doubt will be the case.
how the coaches see every QB they have in practice day after day and week after week. The fans think they know everything but they don't. They don't know when the coaching staff is drooling over some young or unproven QB in practice. All we get is lip service is we get anything at all. We didn't know that Dallas loved Dak Prescott prior to Romo getting injured in that preseason game back in 2016. We may have heard them say nice things but who can believe that. Coaches say shit all the time. We didn't know that Parcells was gushing more and more about some unknown undrafted QB named Tony Romo. The same Romo who was in Dallas for 2-3 years, learning, developing all under the radar. Bledsoe throws a few ducks in that game against the Giants and in comes Romo. That surprised us, but it didn't surprise the Dallas staff because they were warming up to Romo more and more. The second Bledsoe shit the bed he was done there.
If Cutlets or even Lock start kicking ass in practice and Jones isn't kicking ass in the games, I promise you all, that dude will get his chance and soon. You can wrap your heads around some Mara nonsense or other crap but the NFL doesn't work that way 99% of the time. Daboll and Schoen want to win. They need to win. They will play the best QB they see in practice.
I think Jones plays every game he's healthy or until the Giants have clinched a playoff spot.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
Good point Christian; I was going to add the same thing. Barring an injury or if he really terrible which he's never been here Jones is the guy and he's going to play as long as the Giants are in contention. Could we finally just move on!!
I would say as long as we have a playoff shot he is the QB, I don't think Lock or Devito are any better. He has had good long ball accuracy in the past so I don't think that will be a problem and if it is I could see Daboll tightening up the playbook with the after the catch talent on this team.
Once they are out of any playoff chances he is done and they wrap him in bubblewrap.
If he wins the first 2, I see the Giants losing their next 4 games. So he’ll be benched after 6 games, because they won’t play him against the Steeler’s pass rush and risk having to pay that injury guarantee.
Do we really think DeVito or Lock are going to be put in, in place of Jones? Only if he gets hurt again. He’s getting paid far too much money to sit on the bench. That said he either plays his way to sticking around longer or getting replaced after the season IMHO.
If the goal is to get the top quarterback in the 2025 draft, how is Lock not the right answer then?
I can pretty much guarantee right here and now the Giants goal is NOT to get the top QB in the 2025 draft. Its to get back to what they started in 2022 and make the playoffs. get with program and move on!
If the goal is to get the top quarterback in the 2025 draft, how is Lock not the right answer then?
I can pretty much guarantee right here and now the Giants goal is NOT to get the top QB in the 2025 draft. Its to get back to what they started in 2022 and make the playoffs. get with program and move on!
Daniel Jones will go down in NFL history as the worst quarterback ever to play the position with fifty or more starts. And he is the highest paid player in Giants history and the fifth highest cap hit in 2024. All of the individuals who have been part of that "program" thus far have been summarily fired. So I would guess that both Schoen and Daboll are weighing the relative strengths of sticking with that "program" in relation to their future employment.
If the goal is to get the top quarterback in the 2025 draft, how is Lock not the right answer then?
I can pretty much guarantee right here and now the Giants goal is NOT to get the top QB in the 2025 draft. Its to get back to what they started in 2022 and make the playoffs. get with program and move on!
And when they achieve neither goal, Jones gets a 7th season to the delight of many who don't really care about winning.
waving his arms and Danny Checkoff throws the ball to Singletary for a 3 yard gain will be the end.
The problem with Jones is that he is so inconsistent that he gives both sides something to point to in support. If he is putting up his typical 200 yard, less than a 1 td passing a game (and that is what he has been throughout his career) and the team is winning, he will play. If that is what he is putting up and the team is losing, he's going to sit. I just don't see him playing.
I think they very well could start 2-0, but then comes a brutal stretch: Browns on the road, Cowboys, Seattle on the road, Bengals, Eagles, Steelers on the road. I think Jones goes to the bench during that stretch.
0-3 and he has 3 or less TDs he gets stapled to the bench and a bubble wrap suit
Best answer. 0-3 with awful QB play will get him benched. He’s on a short leash IMO. Now, if he’s mediocre and they slog to a 3-5 start, it may take 8 games or so. DJ needs to be average or better and the Giants need to be at or near .500 for him to stay as the starter.
Is losing a bunch of games with Jones back there really the worst thing in the world? Yeah, the injury thing, I get it. But Jones is not my biggest concern. I already know he's not the answer. My biggest concern is getting to a QB who is a legit answer.
waving his arms and Danny Checkoff throws the ball to Singletary for a 3 yard gain will be the end.
Better question will be how long with it take for Nabers to be called a "diva" around here for showing up the QB who either can't or won't make throws with anticipation.
Is losing a bunch of games with Jones back there really the worst thing in the world? Yeah, the injury thing, I get it. But Jones is not my biggest concern. I already know he's not the answer. My biggest concern is getting to a QB who is a legit answer.
Losing a bunch of games with Jones likely ends in Daboll being fired. Moving off Jones quickly may save his job even if the won/loss record isn't great
As long as he wants to play and isn't completely abysmal
If he throws for 200 yards per game, 1 TD, .75 Ints, we have a dull, low-scoring offense. He will start. He earned his $160 M that way. And he'll be the QB for 24 and 25 if he maintains that level.
Jones is in year 3 of a system with a great offensive mind, a stacked group of receivers, and offensive line full of veterans who have played good football. This is his moment.
Is losing a bunch of games with Jones back there really the worst thing in the world? Yeah, the injury thing, I get it. But Jones is not my biggest concern. I already know he's not the answer. My biggest concern is getting to a QB who is a legit answer.
Losing a bunch of games with Jones likely ends in Daboll being fired. Moving off Jones quickly may save his job even if the won/loss record isn't great
I don't agree. I don't think Daboll is on the hot seat. If Jones is the reason for the reason for losses, I don't see that getting pinned on Daboll.
A. Will he be fully healed and near 100% back from the injury?
B. How well is he playing vs the team ? ie. he could play well and the defense is shit or is his play costing them games?
C. How much pressure is on Schabs to win this year?
D. What is happening in the division?
My bet … if the Giants are not at least 2-2 coming out of September, then I’m starting Drew Lock in Seattle. There’s 10 days between Dallas and the Hawks, and while Lock has warts, he’s light years better than TT.
think eight games at most, especially if his poor or even mediocre play is clearly causing the Giants to lose games. The FO tried to trade up for Maye and likely also would have done so for Daniels. They want to replace Jones, and Lock is a capable backup who had some success last year in Seattle. His lease will be short IMO.
I think Jones plays every game he's healthy or until the Giants have clinched a playoff spot.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
Good point Christian; I was going to add the same thing. Barring an injury or if he really terrible which he's never been here Jones is the guy and he's going to play as long as the Giants are in contention. Could we finally just move on!!
Not sure why discussion around Daniel Jones bothers you so much that you continually try to stifle it.
and the team is winning enough games he will remain the starter with a solid performance for the season.
If the team falls out of contention for the playoffs as the injury guarantee will play a factor imv.
Really slow start through the first 6-8 games I expect heat also on Daboll who will be in the self preservation mode and will go with another QB to create a spark.
I would say till they are out of the playoffs. But the 2025 QB is not on the roster if it is not Jones, so it makes no sense to put in Lock or Devito like they are going to start next year.
The Giants really need to be 2-0. They absolutely have to start fast like 2022. If they don't, the noise will be loud to put in Lock/DeVito.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
The Giants really need to be 2-0. They absolutely have to start fast like 2022. If they don't, the noise will be loud to put in Lock/DeVito.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
This isn’t a patient fan base when it comes to the QB position.
The Giants really need to be 2-0. They absolutely have to start fast like 2022. If they don't, the noise will be loud to put in Lock/DeVito.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
This isn’t a patient fan base when it comes to the QB position.
I don't doubt a slow start will create uneasiness with the fanbase and media. But Daboll the talent evaluator has put Daboll the coach in a tough spot.
Lock is an abomination. He's closer to Fromm than he is Daniel Jones.
Sept. 8 Vikings
Sept. at Commanders
Sept. 22 at Browns
Sept. 26 Thu Cowboys
Sun at Seahawks
Oct. 13 Bengals
Oct. 20 Eagles
Oct. 28 Mon at Steelers
I see the Giants at:
2 - 0, then
2 - 6, maybe 3 - 5 with an upset
Are the Giants 3 - 5 despite above average passing and running from Jones or barely 2 - 6, with Jones poor play costing the Giants multiple games?
I think if the Giants start 0 - 2 and the reason is poor play by Jones, I can see Lock starting in week 3.
If the Giants start 2 - 0, winning in spite of Jones poor play, then get blown out 3 games in a row, losing due to Jones, I could see Lock starting the home game versus the Bengals.
Bottom line he gets at least 2 games and potentially as many as 8.
The Giants really need to be 2-0. They absolutely have to start fast like 2022. If they don't, the noise will be loud to put in Lock/DeVito.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
This isn’t a patient fan base when it comes to the QB position.
I don't doubt a slow start will create uneasiness with the fanbase and media. But Daboll the talent evaluator has put Daboll the coach in a tough spot.
Lock is an abomination. He's closer to Fromm than he is Daniel Jones.
That's the thing. The Giants don't have an exciting alternative that the fans are going to be screaming for.
If I were a cynical man I might even believe the Giants did that on purpose with the express purpose of not threatening Daniel's status as the starter.
I don't doubt a slow start will create uneasiness with the fanbase and media. But Daboll the talent evaluator has put Daboll the coach in a tough spot.
Lock is an abomination. He's closer to Fromm than he is Daniel Jones.
That's the thing. The Giants don't have an exciting alternative that the fans are going to be screaming for.
If I were a cynical man I might even believe the Giants did that on purpose with the express purpose of not threatening Daniel's status as the starter.
I think the way things unfolded is a great indication of intentions. The Giants were open to replacing Jones with a blue chip prospect, otherwise it's Daniel Jones show.
Even having a Spencer Rattler or some later round QB prospect would at least drum up curiosity. It's shocking they did not address the position beyond Lock.
If a high priority was to avoid even a hint of a QB controversy
then the backup solution would look exactly like Drew Lock.
And despite his perfect uninspiring track record and appearance, he still had to be instructed to inform the world that he is not going to compete for the starting job at his 1st media availability.
Even having a Spencer Rattler or some later round QB prospect would at least drum up curiosity. It's shocking they did not address the position beyond Lock.
I don't find it at all shocking given how this franchise treats the QB position.
RE: The Giants have put themselves in a brutal spot
Even having a Spencer Rattler or some later round QB prospect would at least drum up curiosity. It's shocking they did not address the position beyond Lock.
Just depressing AF.
RE: The Giants have put themselves in a brutal spot
Even having a Spencer Rattler or some later round QB prospect would at least drum up curiosity. It's shocking they did not address the position beyond Lock.
I am not sure it wasn't by design, Lock and Devito are not upgrades at all it puts little pressure on the franchise if Jones stumbles at moments if you have an unknown the fanbase and media would be screaming to see what the rookie has.
They will not do that with lock or Devito now if Jones is a trainwreak than of course they will call for lock.
more than a few times, to "just throw the ball", something we've already heard, I think DJ could be out by say, 6 weeks in. The coaches will choose Nabers over Vance at this point...
RE: The Giants have put themselves in a brutal spot
Even having a Spencer Rattler or some later round QB prospect would at least drum up curiosity. It's shocking they did not address the position beyond Lock.
It's shocking if the team is being a logical actor - i.e. every decision is made with an eye towards advancing to Super Bowl contention. But we've seen time and again that's not how they operate.
It actually would have been (pleasantly) shocking if they'd even drafted a Rattler/Milton/Pratt. But...
I don’t know how they justify sticking with Jones if he’s awful. We have eyes.
They've justified it for years. Shit we still have fans on this board justifying it, and I suspect they're a pretty good representation of the fanbase in general. Don't forget the Minnesota game...
At least until they are definitely eliminated from the playoffs.
If they’re in the playoff hunt, I don’t think they move off Jones unless he is awful. Let’s not act like there’s a young Kurt Warner waiting in the wings.
I think Jones plays every game he's healthy or until the Giants have clinched a playoff spot.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
I think horrendous is a bit of an overstatement. I don’t think Lock is necessarily good, Jones is better, but I don’t see THAT much daylight between the 2.
RE: As long as he wants to play and isn't completely abysmal
If he throws for 200 yards per game, 1 TD, .75 Ints, we have a dull, low-scoring offense. He will start. He earned his $160 M that way. And he'll be the QB for 24 and 25 if he maintains that level.
He’s the QB in 25 with 17 TDS and 13 interceptions? I doubt that
The Falcons have Penix sitting there. It's a tradeable contract. If the rest of the roster shows promise, I could see NYG trading a 2nd round pick for Cousins.
What are their options really going to be in 2025? We know two things for certain:
1. This organization takes a full bloom love approach to drafting first round quarterbacks. Is there a QB in this class that merits full bloom love? Even if there is, what are the odds the Giants will be in position to draft him?
2. Here's the list of FA QBs who, as of today, are available:
Who on this list is so appealing that the Giants will be willing to pay him AND eat ~$25M in dead money for cutting Jones? From the Giants' perspective wouldn't it just make sense to go with Jones another year?
From a "Let's get a QB" perspective, 2024 was a far more fertile landscape to do so. Even if the Giants want to get one in 2025, the options figure to be really limited.
that Jones will play/start as long as he's healthy.
I think that's what they have to do after Schoen half-assed the trade opportunity with Wolf and continued our recent "tradition" of not drafting a QB.
Remember the draft mantra from Schoen: we need to get a weapon for Daniel. Well, Daniel should get a full season to see how he can operate with a new offensive team.
Buckle in BBI for the Daniel Jones Experience, Season 6.
In 2019, Eli got 2 games before being benched. I see no reason why Jones should have a leash longer than Eli. In both situations, the Giants have an incentive to bench the starter (in 2019 it was to let the rookie play, in 2024 it's the injury guarantee). If Jones is bad and the Giants are 0-2, he should be benched. To say otherwise is to say that Daniel Jones has earned a longer leash than Eli Manning.
Interesting to note that in those 2 games Eli averaged 278 passing yards (higher than the per game total yards for Jones in any year of his career) and 1 TD (higher than Jones per game average for every year of his career since 2019). So even if Jones plays to his career averages, history tells us that he should be benched, unless you want to argue that Daniel Jones should have a longer leash than Eli Manning
RE: If a high priority was to avoid even a hint of a QB controversy
then the backup solution would look exactly like Drew Lock.
And despite his perfect uninspiring track record and appearance, he still had to be instructed to inform the world that he is not going to compete for the starting job at his 1st media availability.
Manning had a top 10 pick on his heals. Jones has a career backup who was the worst quarterback in the NFL the one time he got his chance, and a former UDFA who got thrown to the wolves and benched last year.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
RE: RE: As long as he wants to play and isn't completely abysmal
If he throws for 200 yards per game, 1 TD, .75 Ints, we have a dull, low-scoring offense. He will start. He earned his $160 M that way. And he'll be the QB for 24 and 25 if he maintains that level.
He’s the QB in 25 with 17 TDS and 13 interceptions? I doubt that
I think that would be enough, sadly.
"Bounceback year after major injury"
"Offense showed signs of life"
"Cap hit lower in 2025 and won't be in position to draft QB"
If Jones sucks, he should be benched. WTF are we even doing if he isn’t? Isn’t the fucking point of this entire exercise to win? If Jones is playing bad football and we are losing, this organization-presumably wanting to win-should sit him and at least try another option.
If Jones sucks, he should be benched. WTF are we even doing if he isn’t? Isn’t the fucking point of this entire exercise to win? If Jones is playing bad football and we are losing, this organization-presumably wanting to win-should sit him and at least try another option.
Manning had a top 10 pick on his heals. Jones has a career backup who was the worst quarterback in the NFL the one time he got his chance, and a former UDFA who got thrown to the wolves and benched last year.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
The injury guarantee. If he doesn't look good for a few games, then the chance that he plays well enough to be back next year would (should) be low. If those chances are low, you don't risk owing him another 23 million
If Jones sucks, he should be benched. WTF are we even doing if he isn’t? Isn’t the fucking point of this entire exercise to win? If Jones is playing bad football and we are losing, this organization-presumably wanting to win-should sit him and at least try another option.
The Giants have chosen Jones. As bad as Jones might be, the other two players represent extreme long shots to outperform him.
The best outcome we can hope for in my view is a DeVito rapidly develops and is a far better player than he was last year.
Manning had a top 10 pick on his heals. Jones has a career backup who was the worst quarterback in the NFL the one time he got his chance, and a former UDFA who got thrown to the wolves and benched last year.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
The injury guarantee. If he doesn't look good for a few games, then the chance that he plays well enough to be back next year would (should) be low. If those chances are low, you don't risk owing him another 23 million
On the surface, I get the logic. But the Giants so far have not operated under any fear of retaining and paying Jones. And I believe that extends into next year as well.
I don't believe a practical economic situation will influence them now.
I don’t know how they justify sticking with Jones if he’s awful. We have eyes.
They've justified it for years. Shit we still have fans on this board justifying it, and I suspect they're a pretty good representation of the fanbase in general. Don't forget the Minnesota game...
This regime has been here for 2 full seasons. Not 6. One of which saw Jones play well. It's not don't forget the Minny game as much as it's what choice do we have and remember he played well for the majority of the 22 season or at least well enough to win 9-10 games. It wasn't one game. HE won 10 that year and was a top 8-9 FF QB in terms of stats so he was doing something right that season.
Again, it's 2 years not 6 and they tried to trade up for a QB.
His high water mark was an efficient season aided by an extraordinary amount of luck.
The best thing going for Jones is they downgraded the backup talent.
It's unfair to say Jones was aided by an extraordinary amount of anything and that included the 22 season.
Jones has played one season with an elite talent alongside him and that was 2022 with Barkley. IF you want to count 2019 fine, count it. HE was so so as a rookie so go ahead and count the 12 games he got to play with Barkley but I think it was less than 12 games.
HE beat decent teams in 2022. He beat GB. Ravens. HE beat Wash who was 500 (or maybe they were 9-8) HE did beat a decent team on the road in Minny. "Extraordinary??" Really? No. Jones, Barkley and Thomas carried a shit team to 9 wins. The D was below average. Look it up.
Manning had a top 10 pick on his heals. Jones has a career backup who was the worst quarterback in the NFL the one time he got his chance, and a former UDFA who got thrown to the wolves and benched last year.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
The injury guarantee. If he doesn't look good for a few games, then the chance that he plays well enough to be back next year would (should) be low. If those chances are low, you don't risk owing him another 23 million
On the surface, I get the logic. But the Giants so far have not operated under any fear of retaining and paying Jones. And I believe that extends into next year as well.
I don't believe a practical economic situation will influence them now.
I agree with you that the Giants haven't operated in a way to indicate that they will analyze this in a objective or practical way, which is the damning part for this regime.
My point is that when Jones plays poorly and still gets multiple months of starts, that is the organization saying Daniel Jones deserves a longer leash than Eli Manning. Fans and the Media should interpret the situation and react as such
if you just allow for the belief that Jones is OK. Maybe even slightly below OK but the type of QB that can navigate a season if things are relatively decent or stable around him, you can allow for the belief that he can win games in 24.
2 years. One good year. One bad year. That's what up and down QBs do. The Giants know that they have in Jones. They will try to replace him at every passing turn but you don't bypass a 90 rated WR for an 82 rated QB.
For all the praise that Daboll and Schoen get here
It should be noted that in 2019, the Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur regime made a tough emotional decision to bench Eli early in the season. Not only was it tough from an emotional lens, but it is also a decision that they knew would leave them with egg on their face after giving Eli and additional $20 million just a few months before it. This wasn't done to try to win more games in 2019, it was done to set up the franchise to be better in future years (by letting a rookie QB get some valuable experience).
What does it say that this regime that almost no one here believes that Jones would be benched after a few bad games even though it would be better for the long term health of the franchise? What does it say that many on here believe that part of the reason is that they don't want to look like they have egg on their face because they gave him that contract? The majority on here believe that this regime won't do the obviously right thing to do for the future of the franchise, when even Gettleman and Shurmur would do it. It's pretty damning
His high water mark was an efficient season aided by an extraordinary amount of luck.
The best thing going for Jones is they downgraded the backup talent.
It's unfair to say Jones was aided by an extraordinary amount of anything and that included the 22 season.
Jones has played one season with an elite talent alongside him and that was 2022 with Barkley. IF you want to count 2019 fine, count it. HE was so so as a rookie so go ahead and count the 12 games he got to play with Barkley but I think it was less than 12 games.
HE beat decent teams in 2022. He beat GB. Ravens. HE beat Wash who was 500 (or maybe they were 9-8) HE did beat a decent team on the road in Minny. "Extraordinary??" Really? No. Jones, Barkley and Thomas carried a shit team to 9 wins. The D was below average. Look it up.
Jones won the Ravens game? Or the defense getting two turnovers did?
The defense didn’t hold the Packers to 22 points? They didn’t hold Washington to 12?
The offense was ranked 15th in PPG and the defense was 17th. They were both fairly average. The defense gave up 18.5 ppg during the 6-1 start, then when the offense fell apart and so did the defense.
Saqoun and the defense deserve just as much credit for 2022 as Jones. This narrative that he led them to where they went has always been nonsense.
I'm probably more bullish on DeVito than most, but I don't think he's better than a healthy Jones.
Disagree. I think DeVito will outplay Jones in camp in August. He’s a better long distance passer, understands leverage and if historical patterns hold will make a big leap in performance this season. I’m not saying he starts week 1, to be clear. Just that he should start week 1.
I'm probably more bullish on DeVito than most, but I don't think he's better than a healthy Jones.
Disagree. I think DeVito will outplay Jones in camp in August. He’s a better long distance passer, understands leverage and if historical patterns hold will make a big leap in performance this season. I’m not saying he starts week 1, to be clear. Just that he should start week 1.
Agreed. I'm confident saying DeVito is a better passer and a more instinctive player.
RE: For all the praise that Daboll and Schoen get here
It should be noted that in 2019, the Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur regime made a tough emotional decision to bench Eli early in the season. Not only was it tough from an emotional lens, but it is also a decision that they knew would leave them with egg on their face after giving Eli and additional $20 million just a few months before it. This wasn't done to try to win more games in 2019, it was done to set up the franchise to be better in future years (by letting a rookie QB get some valuable experience).
What does it say that this regime that almost no one here believes that Jones would be benched after a few bad games even though it would be better for the long term health of the franchise? What does it say that many on here believe that part of the reason is that they don't want to look like they have egg on their face because they gave him that contract? The majority on here believe that this regime won't do the obviously right thing to do for the future of the franchise, when even Gettleman and Shurmur would do it. It's pretty damning
Doesn't say anything about this regime. it says something about fans that see what they want to see and make shit up.
This staff isn't benching Jones unless the guy coming in is a better option.
Eli was showing signs of being cooked early on in 2019. Jones was the younger player with upside. If Devito Or Lock shows things in practice and Jones is struggling one of them will play.
the staff will see it if he does. Stranger things have happened. I am a little bit excited for him as he seems confident and showed something as a rookie.
A north Jersey born Don Bosco grad QB playing well will be a very popular player.
Btw, speaking of vet QBs who could be acquired next offseason, no one is talking about a trade for DeShaun Watson, after a public apology. Is that crazy?
RE: RE: For all the praise that Daboll and Schoen get here
It should be noted that in 2019, the Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur regime made a tough emotional decision to bench Eli early in the season. Not only was it tough from an emotional lens, but it is also a decision that they knew would leave them with egg on their face after giving Eli and additional $20 million just a few months before it. This wasn't done to try to win more games in 2019, it was done to set up the franchise to be better in future years (by letting a rookie QB get some valuable experience).
What does it say that this regime that almost no one here believes that Jones would be benched after a few bad games even though it would be better for the long term health of the franchise? What does it say that many on here believe that part of the reason is that they don't want to look like they have egg on their face because they gave him that contract? The majority on here believe that this regime won't do the obviously right thing to do for the future of the franchise, when even Gettleman and Shurmur would do it. It's pretty damning
Doesn't say anything about this regime. it says something about fans that see what they want to see and make shit up.
This staff isn't benching Jones unless the guy coming in is a better option.
Eli was showing signs of being cooked early on in 2019. Jones was the younger player with upside. If Devito Or Lock shows things in practice and Jones is struggling one of them will play.
It really is that simple.
Let's say the staff deems Jones to be not good enough, and someone they plan of cutting after the year, but they also think he is the best QB they have. In that case, he should still be benched because it is in the best interest of the future of the franchise. At that point it doesn't matter that Jones is the best QB on the roster, if he isn't your future you shouldn't be risking over 8% cap space for next year. Too often this franchise has been more worried about winning games in a lost year to get to 5 or 6 wins than building an actual contender
follow their actions. Follow the money. Jones was coming off the best year of his career are we correct? Yes. OK good. Jones was a UFA coming off that season. He got paid what amounted to about average starting QB money. About 10-12th or so give or take. And the contract allowed for escape by NYG after TWO years. Get that? The guy was 26 years old. Coming off his best season. He gets a deal paying him not top 5, not top 3. Not even top 8 money. And wiggle room after 2 years. If NYG and Jones knew that Jones was better he's getting more years and MUCH more money. They paid Jones like a stopgap but with no other alternative. They didn't pay Jones like you would pay the LB Okereke who got top 3-5 money for his position. They didn't pay Jones like they tagged Barkley as one of the best RBs in the game. They didn't pay Jones like Andrew Thomas got paid as a top 2-3 LT. Maybe you think they should have moved on right there and then, fine, but they didn't. And I have a hard time believing the grass today is oh so green simply because NYG let Jones walk after 22. Great they let Jones walk and look for a QB in 2023 and if that guy isn't any good we're in the same spot today, still looking for a long term answer. Jones has 1-2 more years left on the cap.
Jones isn't long for the Giants unless he has another good season mirroring 2022 or close to it. I will die on that hill. And even then they might just let him play on the last year of his deal and say do it again.
I'm probably more bullish on DeVito than most, but I don't think he's better than a healthy Jones.
Disagree. I think DeVito will outplay Jones in camp in August. He’s a better long distance passer, understands leverage and if historical patterns hold will make a big leap in performance this season. I’m not saying he starts week 1, to be clear. Just that he should start week 1.
Agreed. He may not be a better athlete, but he is more instinctive, processes more quickly and has the courage to stand in the pocket and execute the vertical passing game.
I'm confident in saying Daboll is going to test Jones
I hope you guys get your dream boy QB. We all want that. Above all else I want this roster to be stabilized to he point where we can plug in a decent QB and expect results. Plug in a good or great QB and expect greatness. We all want that. I don't think NYG fans are sitting around dying to be right about Jones as much as they just want Jones to succeed. It's impossible to defend his play in 2023. It's also impossible to defend the elements surrounding him but great QBs elevate the team. Jones hasn't done that.
I selfishly wanted either a WR or edge player in round 1, April. I got my wish. I think the roster is approaching a place where you have some vet star power, (5-6-7 guys here in the fold) some up n coming young players and some decent stops that can help more than hurt. To me that was equally as vital as finding the next great QB.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
I am not sure whether this is serious question or just a rhetorical question designed as click bait. HTF does anybody know. It will depend on how well he plays and how well the Giants do as a team. I suspect he's not on a leash at all unless he does really poorly or gets hurt but that probably goes for most starting QBs in the NFL. And other than the final three games he played last year when he was the most pressured QB literally in the history of the NFL, Jones never played anywhere near that poorly. Obviously he was never great, but you don't bench your starter because he's not great.
Meanwhile, anyone pretending that Drew Lock is in anyway going to bail the team out is living in some fantasy world. He's here literally as an emergency replacement who gives the Giants a chance to win if Jones gets hurt. And rather than secretly hoping he plays one would think in a sane world every one here who claims to be a Giants fan should be hoping that Jones can stay healthy and plays closer to his 2022 level.
This is a message board for fans.
The idea of fans discussing hypothetical scenarios seems to confuse you, and has since you were Snablats.
I like DeVito, but he is a pretty hesitant passer in the pocket as well. On per game basis he took fewer deep shots than 2022 Jones as well.
Graded on curve I thought he was great. Graded on reality he was not.
________
I’m not a big DeVito fan simply because he doesn’t fit my image of a NYG QB. However, based on how he looked last year compared to any other rookie in a similar position (coming in to a team clearly out of playoff contention), he deserves another look. There are a lot of starting QBs in this league who don’t fit my image of a NYG QB.
Home - Vikings, Away - Commanders, Away - Browns, Home - Cowboys and Away- Seahawks.
I believe the best we will see is 2 wins (Vikings and Commanders). I don't see 3 or more. The next 3 games are against the Bengals, Eagles and Steelers. I'm concerned this could get ugly. Schoen and Dabold must be evaluating this schedule to assess "Decision Points" on when to fish or cut bait.
In my view this is a tough schedule; especially with the AFC North included. Therefore, I predict a change after game 5.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Exactly. It takes a long time to get eliminated from the playoffs in the NFC now with 7 spots. We were probably the 4th worst team in the league last year and technically "in the hunt" into December.
But it is not because he's not going to be benched, he'll lose his job because of injury. I think Lock or Devito, or whoever will play marginally better than Jones and that will be it.
And I strongly believe both Lock and Cutlets should be allowed to be QB1 to compare how they do with the ones with how Jones’ does.
In other words, based on 2023, I see no reason to give Jones a head start. He hasn’t deserved it….I don’t care how much he makes. That does not translate into competency.
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Exactly. It takes a long time to get eliminated from the playoffs in the NFC now with 7 spots. We were probably the 4th worst team in the league last year and technically "in the hunt" into December.
That’s what the Maras strive for…‘meaningful December football’.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
Very good post. I agree.
The Giants are heavily in like with Jones. This is not a player on the brink of losing his job to Drew Lock.
In retrospect I think the biggest signal ends up being the Burns trade. A team on a quarterback hunt doesn't trade pick 39. That's a critical asset. A team on the hunt pairs 39 and 47 and gets to 23 like Minnesota did.
With 6, 23, and next year's first round pick in play -- that's a serious offer to New England.
I have no idea what this season is going to look like, and if the Giants are competitive and it looks like they are progressing overall, I don't even care who is taking snaps from center. If the OL looks actually decent for once and Jones does actually have a good season there are going to be some silly looking fans here.
was based on the offensive talent overall (also scheme complexity) and not just the QB. BD ran many of the same concepts in Buffalo (RPO's, Shotgun PRO's). They tilted much more pass oriented when Diggs was added (127c/1535y/12.4).
It was supposed to happen last season but the FA additions didn't pan out and the OL was mostly a disaster.
Anyway, I'd say 6-8. Ideally, to get more than that he'd have to be surprisingly good, not just "fine". But if he's able to stay healthy and his play is just decent enough, I would think he'll stay in, which I'm sure will generate some fun threads here.
6-8 quarters after Daboll thinks Lock gives them a better chance of winning, max. Or, -4 games otherwise which I suspect is 2-6, max. After watching Daboll for 2 years and then HK, you know he won't have a long leash. The injury guarantee gives Schoen/Mara every incentive to endorse (and even lobby) for -- if it makes sense. -- switching ASAP.
And Jones isn’t hitting them, I think they’ll make a switch. I’ll echo Sean’s sentiment that they won’t be operating a Mickey Mouse offense and will take the training wheels off. If Jones is operating a functional offense and occasionally connecting on these plays, he’ll get a very long leash. Probably until we’re mathematically eliminated. But I don’t see them digging their heels in if he’s straight awful and can’t play the yolo ball I think they want to play.
With Dabolls butt being on the line since its his 3rd season
I have to figure that there is no leash or amount of games. The minute Daboll thinks Lock (or Cutlets) gives him a better chance to win games he will switch it. Scholarships and feelings should go out the window here. Unfortunately the issue is he may think Jones sucks, but he doesn't have anyone else really better in his opinion.
I hope you guys get your dream boy QB. We all want that. Above all else I want this roster to be stabilized to he point where we can plug in a decent QB and expect results. Plug in a good or great QB and expect greatness. We all want that. I don't think NYG fans are sitting around dying to be right about Jones as much as they just want Jones to succeed. It's impossible to defend his play in 2023. It's also impossible to defend the elements surrounding him but great QBs elevate the team. Jones hasn't done that.
I selfishly wanted either a WR or edge player in round 1, April. I got my wish. I think the roster is approaching a place where you have some vet star power, (5-6-7 guys here in the fold) some up n coming young players and some decent stops that can help more than hurt. To me that was equally as vital as finding the next great QB.
was based on the offensive talent overall (also scheme complexity) and not just the QB. BD ran many of the same concepts in Buffalo (RPO's, Shotgun PRO's). They tilted much more pass oriented when Diggs was added (127c/1535y/12.4).
It was supposed to happen last season but the FA additions didn't pan out and the OL was mostly a disaster.
As Terps has said before, that '22 offense had training wheels on it. The Giants didn't ask much of Jones; if the first read wasn't there, he was taking off with the rock. & let's not kid ourselves...Saquon was the real engine behind that offense.
Yeah, Jones had some nice games. Both games against Minnesota come to mind. As does the Colts game. But that Vikes defense was atrocious (Mac Fucking Jones lit them up that season) & that Colts team had all but thrown in the towel when he faced them on 1/1/23.
& Jones had-I believe-22 TDs in all...15 throwing & 7 running. For a QB in today's NFL, that's not really all that impressive.
I think Jones plays every game he's healthy or until the Giants have clinched a playoff spot.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
I would LOVE to know the backstory on why you randomly one day decided to hate Drew Lock with every ounce of your being. You can bullshit a lot of the posters on here and act like you just watched your little YouTube clips or looked at his stats but the smarter fans on this site no that this is absolutely personal. I’d say it’s almost an 80% chance he banged your girl. Or your sister. Or maybe you hit him up on Tinder and he blew you off. But there is no way in hell that you supposedly despise Lock as much as you do based on the laughable any of time you’ve seen him play.
Stop fucking embarrassing yourself man. You’re better than this. Or, maybe not
I start thinking about a natural break in the schedule, such as the bye (which is way too late if DJ is not getting it done), and possibly the extra time before the seahawks game.
But then I think, there is no way they can tolerate a start like last year, so if we are losing and in any way the passing game is part of the reason, I think they give him the hook. Like pretty quick. Halftime during the browns or cowboys.
If there was ever banging going on between Lock and the women in my life, he'd definitely be on the receiving side. That guy couldn't hit a swimming pool with his dick, let alone a Gonzales girl. He's definitely a bottom.
The dude has a career 20%+ bad throw rate. Every time I've seen him play, it's startling how bad he is at throwing a ball in the general vicinity of another person.
The only embarrassing that will be going on is if this goofball gets on the field.
I think if we're 1-3 or 0-4 going into the Seattle game on 10.6, a diff QB starts that game. If that's the case, we are looking at another terrible 5-6 win season and there is no point in playing him considering the injury factor contract thing of his going into the next season.
I think if we're 1-3 or 0-4 going into the Seattle game on 10.6, a diff QB starts that game. If that's the case, we are looking at another terrible 5-6 win season and there is no point in playing him considering the injury factor contract thing of his going into the next season.
Agree
. Right. If it's a lost season, pull him. He is on a relatively short leash. If they are near 500 play him. 2-7 he's done.
Lock and Devito look like in preseasom, if they look good and are moving the offense and taking shots that is going to put lressure on Jones..
Second Daboll is not going to put up with check downs, especially if guys are runnjng open, with Daboll calling the plays he is not going to put up with check down charlie..
Jones to me is game to game, if he looks good he is going to play, if he is being agressive he is going to play the second he is messing up the offe se and missing wide open guys Daboll is going to make a change..
was ready to move on and how they went out and got Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson, plus working hard on a functional Oline, I think he has 4-6 games.
If he doesn't get the rust off(quickly) in the next two weeks, he may not even get that far. I think Schoen and Daboll seem determined to get the offense working on the passing side.
While the oline was the biggest impediment to a good offense, Jones is just as big of a reason they have failed. He is being given all the toys. Time to put up or pick up a clip board and grab a spot at the end of the bench.
The Giants don't have the talent behind Jones to operate with this fake ultimatum tough guy mentality. Every choice they made this offseason was in the pursuit of building for Jones.
They aren't benching him if things get tough. He's in the midst of a near-flawless rehab. Jones is playing unless he physically unable.
The Giants don't have the talent behind Jones to operate with this fake ultimatum tough guy mentality. Every choice they made this offseason was in the pursuit of building for Jones.
They aren't benching him if things get tough. He's in the midst of a near-flawless rehab. Jones is playing unless he physically unable.
Your assessment of the off season is correct in my view - building around Jones that also happens to coincide with building a roster. But I just get the feeling that Schoen definitely, and Daboll probably, will tolerate Jones eff ups only so far. Every quip seemed to be resignation to Jones playing, more than expectation of success. Perhaps we see what we want to see - self fulfilling prophecy(?).
Alternately, Schoen admitted that they were allotting for giving Jones two years to get it done.
If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
I hope he gets a legit shot at some point down the road so we can at least get a look at him. I don't know what the hell Atlanta was doing drafting him after paying Cousins. If they were that high on Penix they should have just not paid Cousins at all.
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
lands them in the same pickle with Jones. That's a tough sell for two QBs.
The Goats didn't have him marked as an injury risk on the board we saw on HK. They also didn't have him marked as a high character guy, so I'm wondering if they said more than five words to him on their visit.
They just didn't like him. Would have been nice to hear about why on HK.
The prediction is when will that be? I think DJ is hovering just below middling, so it won't be a great season, but we'll be in the hunt for quite a while.
The only thing that gets him benched is if Lock or Devito are looking good, which probably isn't likely, or if DJ gets injured, which is a good possibility.
IF the OL is improved, he will probably outperform most BBIers' expectations. The rest of the O has to be there, too. IF it is, DJ may not shine, but he'll be good enough to keep the job.
Rumors have it that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers. IF he was a prime voice steering Schoen away from an available QB and that QB does well, while DJ struggles, you betcher ass Dabs is on the hotseat, especially if we're out of contention early.
Jones will start unless we are mathematically eliminated. They like Jones. Their actions tell the story and it is obvious. Those thinking a short leash are infected with confirmation bias.
Jones will start unless we are mathematically eliminated. They like Jones. Their actions tell the story and it is obvious. Those thinking a short leash are infected with confirmation bias.
I don't think confirmation bias means what you think it means. There's nothing being confirmed here or even implied as a confirmation. This is entirely hypothetical. I'm not denying that there's bias in every answer (including yours, with an appeal to authority); it's just not confirmation bias.
If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
Tiresome sarcasm aside, is there any evidence to suggest that they actually do know more?
The $4 mill per year they are making, that you are not, generally means they know more than you.
Look, i support daboll and schoen but the results read as 1 winning season in 3 years, and the giants as a whole have 1 winning season in the last 10 years.
"They know more than you" isnt the argument ender it used to be.
in evaluation, negotiation and process as we have clearly seen. Sometimes egregious mistakes.
They also have far more nuances and prejudices cluttering their minds and decision-making because they have so many people and parties they need to communicate and deal with (and some they shouldn't but can't help themselves). Who to rely upon and why, and who not to.
The latter can easily mitigate/deflate the advantages from the "they know more" statement.
Will be interesting to how the QBs operate when they pass more because the offense wants not simply because they cannot run the ball. Not being able to run the ball allowed defenses less things to worry about.
Will be interesting to how the QBs operate when they pass more because the offense wants not simply because they cannot run the ball. Not being able to run the ball allowed defenses less things to worry about.
There's a possibility that the inverse is true: the Giants had trouble running the ball because opposing defenses didn't view the threat of their passing game as credible.
I really do think this is his final season -- but unless he gets injured or the season is way out of hand -- as in the playoffs are unreachable and we are headed for a top ten pick again -- I do not think he will be benched
there will always be excuses
This. 0-3 and he looks mediocre or worse, he's on the bench. I wouldn't put 0-2 out of the question either given that's the soft part of the schedule.
There's a reason MGM has his passing TD o/u at 9.5, and that's not soley due to injury risk.
Can't think of a better launch point for DJ's turnaround. If they lose and he looks bad, I have a hard time imagining him getting out the hole.
The Giants aren't going to risk paying that injury guarantee waiting for him to "turn it around".
I made this comment in another thread and am going to stand by it, I've overreacted to what I've seen in camp before, I'll wait until he looks like this in live game action (I would count pre-season) before I get too excited, but he needs to play better than what's been reported.
Meanwhile, anyone pretending that Drew Lock is in anyway going to bail the team out is living in some fantasy world. He's here literally as an emergency replacement who gives the Giants a chance to win if Jones gets hurt. And rather than secretly hoping he plays one would think in a sane world every one here who claims to be a Giants fan should be hoping that Jones can stay healthy and plays closer to his 2022 level.
Belichick liked to say every year, you don't know what you have in your team until Thanksgiving, but I think teams today, especially losing teams, will not be that patient, so I say 8 games.
but that's just a measurement point. if he and the team are doing well (subjective) he stays at QB.
This is all predicated on his health which is obviously not a reliable variable, so obviously if he's hurt that changes.
If he plays ok and the team is winning some games, his leash is longer.
If he plays really well - he will get the season.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
So if the Giants lose those two and he is terrible, than Lock or DeVito will become the starter and DJ becomes the permanent backup for the rest of the season to avoid injury settlement. If DJ plays to his middling ceiling in those two games, than he will be the starter through the bye week as long as he remains true to his middling self. If he is terrible for any two consecutive games prior to the bye, than I believe he will be benched to see what we have in Lock and/or DeVito for the rest of the way.
After the bye week, the Giants would be nuts to play DJ unless they are still in playoff contention, which I highly doubt will be the case.
If Cutlets or even Lock start kicking ass in practice and Jones isn't kicking ass in the games, I promise you all, that dude will get his chance and soon. You can wrap your heads around some Mara nonsense or other crap but the NFL doesn't work that way 99% of the time. Daboll and Schoen want to win. They need to win. They will play the best QB they see in practice.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
If the goal is to get the top quarterback in the 2025 draft, how is Lock not the right answer then?
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
Good point Christian; I was going to add the same thing. Barring an injury or if he really terrible which he's never been here Jones is the guy and he's going to play as long as the Giants are in contention. Could we finally just move on!!
Once they are out of any playoff chances he is done and they wrap him in bubblewrap.
His high water mark was an efficient season aided by an extraordinary amount of luck.
The best thing going for Jones is they downgraded the backup talent.
I can pretty much guarantee right here and now the Giants goal is NOT to get the top QB in the 2025 draft. Its to get back to what they started in 2022 and make the playoffs. get with program and move on!
Quote:
If the goal is to get the top quarterback in the 2025 draft, how is Lock not the right answer then?
I can pretty much guarantee right here and now the Giants goal is NOT to get the top QB in the 2025 draft. Its to get back to what they started in 2022 and make the playoffs. get with program and move on!
Daniel Jones will go down in NFL history as the worst quarterback ever to play the position with fifty or more starts. And he is the highest paid player in Giants history and the fifth highest cap hit in 2024. All of the individuals who have been part of that "program" thus far have been summarily fired. So I would guess that both Schoen and Daboll are weighing the relative strengths of sticking with that "program" in relation to their future employment.
I'd wager Jones missed 1/4 of the season with a head or neck injury. We'll have more information on DeVito as the off season develops.
But that's a WAG
Quote:
If the goal is to get the top quarterback in the 2025 draft, how is Lock not the right answer then?
I can pretty much guarantee right here and now the Giants goal is NOT to get the top QB in the 2025 draft. Its to get back to what they started in 2022 and make the playoffs. get with program and move on!
And when they achieve neither goal, Jones gets a 7th season to the delight of many who don't really care about winning.
The problem with Jones is that he is so inconsistent that he gives both sides something to point to in support. If he is putting up his typical 200 yard, less than a 1 td passing a game (and that is what he has been throughout his career) and the team is winning, he will play. If that is what he is putting up and the team is losing, he's going to sit. I just don't see him playing.
I think they very well could start 2-0, but then comes a brutal stretch: Browns on the road, Cowboys, Seattle on the road, Bengals, Eagles, Steelers on the road. I think Jones goes to the bench during that stretch.
Best answer. 0-3 with awful QB play will get him benched. He’s on a short leash IMO. Now, if he’s mediocre and they slog to a 3-5 start, it may take 8 games or so. DJ needs to be average or better and the Giants need to be at or near .500 for him to stay as the starter.
Better question will be how long with it take for Nabers to be called a "diva" around here for showing up the QB who either can't or won't make throws with anticipation.
Losing a bunch of games with Jones likely ends in Daboll being fired. Moving off Jones quickly may save his job even if the won/loss record isn't great
If he throws for 200 yards per game, 1 TD, .75 Ints, we have a dull, low-scoring offense. He will start. He earned his $160 M that way. And he'll be the QB for 24 and 25 if he maintains that level.
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Is losing a bunch of games with Jones back there really the worst thing in the world? Yeah, the injury thing, I get it. But Jones is not my biggest concern. I already know he's not the answer. My biggest concern is getting to a QB who is a legit answer.
Losing a bunch of games with Jones likely ends in Daboll being fired. Moving off Jones quickly may save his job even if the won/loss record isn't great
B. How well is he playing vs the team ? ie. he could play well and the defense is shit or is his play costing them games?
C. How much pressure is on Schabs to win this year?
D. What is happening in the division?
My bet … if the Giants are not at least 2-2 coming out of September, then I’m starting Drew Lock in Seattle. There’s 10 days between Dallas and the Hawks, and while Lock has warts, he’s light years better than TT.
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I think Jones plays every game he's healthy or until the Giants have clinched a playoff spot.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
Good point Christian; I was going to add the same thing. Barring an injury or if he really terrible which he's never been here Jones is the guy and he's going to play as long as the Giants are in contention. Could we finally just move on!!
Not sure why discussion around Daniel Jones bothers you so much that you continually try to stifle it.
Unfortunately, with the parody in the NFL, this could be week 14 even for a bad team
Shoot me to the moon if that happens.
If the team falls out of contention for the playoffs as the injury guarantee will play a factor imv.
Really slow start through the first 6-8 games I expect heat also on Daboll who will be in the self preservation mode and will go with another QB to create a spark.
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You give him until they are out of the playoff hunt unless they are losing despite his stellar play.
Unfortunately, with the parody in the NFL, this could be week 14 even for a bad team
I hope I’m wrong, but that’s how I think it will play out.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
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In comment 16564791 Giantsbigblue said:
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You give him until they are out of the playoff hunt unless they are losing despite his stellar play.
Unfortunately, with the parody in the NFL, this could be week 14 even for a bad team
I noticed that but couldn't figure out the edit. Anyway, "parody" works as well
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The Giants really need to be 2-0. They absolutely have to start fast like 2022. If they don't, the noise will be loud to put in Lock/DeVito.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
This isn’t a patient fan base when it comes to the QB position.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
This isn’t a patient fan base when it comes to the QB position.
I don't doubt a slow start will create uneasiness with the fanbase and media. But Daboll the talent evaluator has put Daboll the coach in a tough spot.
Lock is an abomination. He's closer to Fromm than he is Daniel Jones.
If he is not cooking by then and has a bad game he will be tied to the bench for the rest of the year.
If he puts it together and beats Dallas he may be able to go on a roll but I wont believe it till it happens.
Sept. at Commanders
Sept. 22 at Browns
Sept. 26 Thu Cowboys
Sun at Seahawks
Oct. 13 Bengals
Oct. 20 Eagles
Oct. 28 Mon at Steelers
I see the Giants at:
2 - 0, then
2 - 6, maybe 3 - 5 with an upset
Are the Giants 3 - 5 despite above average passing and running from Jones or barely 2 - 6, with Jones poor play costing the Giants multiple games?
I think if the Giants start 0 - 2 and the reason is poor play by Jones, I can see Lock starting in week 3.
If the Giants start 2 - 0, winning in spite of Jones poor play, then get blown out 3 games in a row, losing due to Jones, I could see Lock starting the home game versus the Bengals.
Bottom line he gets at least 2 games and potentially as many as 8.
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The Giants really need to be 2-0. They absolutely have to start fast like 2022. If they don't, the noise will be loud to put in Lock/DeVito.
I think the most likely outcome is an appeal to patience as Jones is returning from injury, 3/5 of the offensive line will be new, and the number of new skill players.
I think Daboll is in the very rare position where overloading the quarterback and concentrating the blame their helps his chances.
This isn’t a patient fan base when it comes to the QB position.
I don't doubt a slow start will create uneasiness with the fanbase and media. But Daboll the talent evaluator has put Daboll the coach in a tough spot.
Lock is an abomination. He's closer to Fromm than he is Daniel Jones.
That's the thing. The Giants don't have an exciting alternative that the fans are going to be screaming for.
If I were a cynical man I might even believe the Giants did that on purpose with the express purpose of not threatening Daniel's status as the starter.
The press would go wild with his benching. That's the main reason why I think the Giants won't bench him.
I seriously doubt they'd pull him after 3 or 4 games.
I don't doubt a slow start will create uneasiness with the fanbase and media. But Daboll the talent evaluator has put Daboll the coach in a tough spot.
Lock is an abomination. He's closer to Fromm than he is Daniel Jones.
That's the thing. The Giants don't have an exciting alternative that the fans are going to be screaming for.
If I were a cynical man I might even believe the Giants did that on purpose with the express purpose of not threatening Daniel's status as the starter.
I think the way things unfolded is a great indication of intentions. The Giants were open to replacing Jones with a blue chip prospect, otherwise it's Daniel Jones show.
And despite his perfect uninspiring track record and appearance, he still had to be instructed to inform the world that he is not going to compete for the starting job at his 1st media availability.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
I don't find it at all shocking given how this franchise treats the QB position.
Just depressing AF.
I am not sure it wasn't by design, Lock and Devito are not upgrades at all it puts little pressure on the franchise if Jones stumbles at moments if you have an unknown the fanbase and media would be screaming to see what the rookie has.
They will not do that with lock or Devito now if Jones is a trainwreak than of course they will call for lock.
It's shocking if the team is being a logical actor - i.e. every decision is made with an eye towards advancing to Super Bowl contention. But we've seen time and again that's not how they operate.
It actually would have been (pleasantly) shocking if they'd even drafted a Rattler/Milton/Pratt. But...
They've justified it for years. Shit we still have fans on this board justifying it, and I suspect they're a pretty good representation of the fanbase in general. Don't forget the Minnesota game...
You know he has durability issues. Not career threatening issues. But durability issues.
These players are UFAs: Brissett, Darnold, Mariota, and Trubisky. Also Fields is available for a late round pick.
And you end up with Drew Lock.
I don't understand what they're thinking is at the QB position.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
I think horrendous is a bit of an overstatement. I don’t think Lock is necessarily good, Jones is better, but I don’t see THAT much daylight between the 2.
If he throws for 200 yards per game, 1 TD, .75 Ints, we have a dull, low-scoring offense. He will start. He earned his $160 M that way. And he'll be the QB for 24 and 25 if he maintains that level.
He’s the QB in 25 with 17 TDS and 13 interceptions? I doubt that
1. This organization takes a full bloom love approach to drafting first round quarterbacks. Is there a QB in this class that merits full bloom love? Even if there is, what are the odds the Giants will be in position to draft him?
2. Here's the list of FA QBs who, as of today, are available:
Who on this list is so appealing that the Giants will be willing to pay him AND eat ~$25M in dead money for cutting Jones? From the Giants' perspective wouldn't it just make sense to go with Jones another year?
From a "Let's get a QB" perspective, 2024 was a far more fertile landscape to do so. Even if the Giants want to get one in 2025, the options figure to be really limited.
I think that's what they have to do after Schoen half-assed the trade opportunity with Wolf and continued our recent "tradition" of not drafting a QB.
Remember the draft mantra from Schoen: we need to get a weapon for Daniel. Well, Daniel should get a full season to see how he can operate with a new offensive team.
Buckle in BBI for the Daniel Jones Experience, Season 6.
Interesting to note that in those 2 games Eli averaged 278 passing yards (higher than the per game total yards for Jones in any year of his career) and 1 TD (higher than Jones per game average for every year of his career since 2019). So even if Jones plays to his career averages, history tells us that he should be benched, unless you want to argue that Daniel Jones should have a longer leash than Eli Manning
And despite his perfect uninspiring track record and appearance, he still had to be instructed to inform the world that he is not going to compete for the starting job at his 1st media availability.
Great point.
2) if he gets injured…and misses multiple games especially if mid season or later, I think they’ll bench him for the injury guarantee.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
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then he will be the starter.
If he throws for 200 yards per game, 1 TD, .75 Ints, we have a dull, low-scoring offense. He will start. He earned his $160 M that way. And he'll be the QB for 24 and 25 if he maintains that level.
He’s the QB in 25 with 17 TDS and 13 interceptions? I doubt that
I think that would be enough, sadly.
"Bounceback year after major injury"
"Offense showed signs of life"
"Cap hit lower in 2025 and won't be in position to draft QB"
"Let's give him another year"
Blah blah blah blah blah.
It is not just about winning.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
The injury guarantee. If he doesn't look good for a few games, then the chance that he plays well enough to be back next year would (should) be low. If those chances are low, you don't risk owing him another 23 million
The Giants have chosen Jones. As bad as Jones might be, the other two players represent extreme long shots to outperform him.
The best outcome we can hope for in my view is a DeVito rapidly develops and is a far better player than he was last year.
It’s wild that people who are registered on a message board actually use the message board.
What other breaking news do you have for us?
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
The injury guarantee. If he doesn't look good for a few games, then the chance that he plays well enough to be back next year would (should) be low. If those chances are low, you don't risk owing him another 23 million
On the surface, I get the logic. But the Giants so far have not operated under any fear of retaining and paying Jones. And I believe that extends into next year as well.
I don't believe a practical economic situation will influence them now.
And DeVito-while probably no savior himself-was better than Jones last year.
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I don’t know how they justify sticking with Jones if he’s awful. We have eyes.
They've justified it for years. Shit we still have fans on this board justifying it, and I suspect they're a pretty good representation of the fanbase in general. Don't forget the Minnesota game...
This regime has been here for 2 full seasons. Not 6. One of which saw Jones play well. It's not don't forget the Minny game as much as it's what choice do we have and remember he played well for the majority of the 22 season or at least well enough to win 9-10 games. It wasn't one game. HE won 10 that year and was a top 8-9 FF QB in terms of stats so he was doing something right that season.
Again, it's 2 years not 6 and they tried to trade up for a QB.
His high water mark was an efficient season aided by an extraordinary amount of luck.
The best thing going for Jones is they downgraded the backup talent.
It's unfair to say Jones was aided by an extraordinary amount of anything and that included the 22 season.
Jones has played one season with an elite talent alongside him and that was 2022 with Barkley. IF you want to count 2019 fine, count it. HE was so so as a rookie so go ahead and count the 12 games he got to play with Barkley but I think it was less than 12 games.
HE beat decent teams in 2022. He beat GB. Ravens. HE beat Wash who was 500 (or maybe they were 9-8) HE did beat a decent team on the road in Minny. "Extraordinary??" Really? No. Jones, Barkley and Thomas carried a shit team to 9 wins. The D was below average. Look it up.
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Manning had a top 10 pick on his heals. Jones has a career backup who was the worst quarterback in the NFL the one time he got his chance, and a former UDFA who got thrown to the wolves and benched last year.
I think things will have to be really ugly to bench Jones. Why keep him, go through the rehab, skip over 3 red chip prospects, and skip over a handful of tweeners to not give him enough runway?
The injury guarantee. If he doesn't look good for a few games, then the chance that he plays well enough to be back next year would (should) be low. If those chances are low, you don't risk owing him another 23 million
On the surface, I get the logic. But the Giants so far have not operated under any fear of retaining and paying Jones. And I believe that extends into next year as well.
I don't believe a practical economic situation will influence them now.
I agree with you that the Giants haven't operated in a way to indicate that they will analyze this in a objective or practical way, which is the damning part for this regime.
My point is that when Jones plays poorly and still gets multiple months of starts, that is the organization saying Daniel Jones deserves a longer leash than Eli Manning. Fans and the Media should interpret the situation and react as such
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Nice to see a thread about Jones and the Giants QB situation not taken over by SF, Go Terps and their ilk!
It’s wild that people who are registered on a message board actually use the message board.
What other breaking news do you have for us?
Snorkels routinely trys to shut down conversation. I'm not sure he understand the purpose of a fan forum
2 years. One good year. One bad year. That's what up and down QBs do. The Giants know that they have in Jones. They will try to replace him at every passing turn but you don't bypass a 90 rated WR for an 82 rated QB.
What does it say that this regime that almost no one here believes that Jones would be benched after a few bad games even though it would be better for the long term health of the franchise? What does it say that many on here believe that part of the reason is that they don't want to look like they have egg on their face because they gave him that contract? The majority on here believe that this regime won't do the obviously right thing to do for the future of the franchise, when even Gettleman and Shurmur would do it. It's pretty damning
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Jones has never been terrible? LOL.
His high water mark was an efficient season aided by an extraordinary amount of luck.
The best thing going for Jones is they downgraded the backup talent.
It's unfair to say Jones was aided by an extraordinary amount of anything and that included the 22 season.
Jones has played one season with an elite talent alongside him and that was 2022 with Barkley. IF you want to count 2019 fine, count it. HE was so so as a rookie so go ahead and count the 12 games he got to play with Barkley but I think it was less than 12 games.
HE beat decent teams in 2022. He beat GB. Ravens. HE beat Wash who was 500 (or maybe they were 9-8) HE did beat a decent team on the road in Minny. "Extraordinary??" Really? No. Jones, Barkley and Thomas carried a shit team to 9 wins. The D was below average. Look it up.
Jones won the Ravens game? Or the defense getting two turnovers did?
The defense didn’t hold the Packers to 22 points? They didn’t hold Washington to 12?
The offense was ranked 15th in PPG and the defense was 17th. They were both fairly average. The defense gave up 18.5 ppg during the 6-1 start, then when the offense fell apart and so did the defense.
Saqoun and the defense deserve just as much credit for 2022 as Jones. This narrative that he led them to where they went has always been nonsense.
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In comment 16564791 Giantsbigblue said:
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You give him until they are out of the playoff hunt unless they are losing despite his stellar play.
Unfortunately, with the parody in the NFL, this could be week 14 even for a bad team
Awesome!
Disagree. I think DeVito will outplay Jones in camp in August. He’s a better long distance passer, understands leverage and if historical patterns hold will make a big leap in performance this season. I’m not saying he starts week 1, to be clear. Just that he should start week 1.
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I'm probably more bullish on DeVito than most, but I don't think he's better than a healthy Jones.
Disagree. I think DeVito will outplay Jones in camp in August. He’s a better long distance passer, understands leverage and if historical patterns hold will make a big leap in performance this season. I’m not saying he starts week 1, to be clear. Just that he should start week 1.
Agreed. I'm confident saying DeVito is a better passer and a more instinctive player.
What does it say that this regime that almost no one here believes that Jones would be benched after a few bad games even though it would be better for the long term health of the franchise? What does it say that many on here believe that part of the reason is that they don't want to look like they have egg on their face because they gave him that contract? The majority on here believe that this regime won't do the obviously right thing to do for the future of the franchise, when even Gettleman and Shurmur would do it. It's pretty damning
Doesn't say anything about this regime. it says something about fans that see what they want to see and make shit up.
This staff isn't benching Jones unless the guy coming in is a better option.
Eli was showing signs of being cooked early on in 2019. Jones was the younger player with upside. If Devito Or Lock shows things in practice and Jones is struggling one of them will play.
It really is that simple.
Btw, speaking of vet QBs who could be acquired next offseason, no one is talking about a trade for DeShaun Watson, after a public apology. Is that crazy?
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It should be noted that in 2019, the Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur regime made a tough emotional decision to bench Eli early in the season. Not only was it tough from an emotional lens, but it is also a decision that they knew would leave them with egg on their face after giving Eli and additional $20 million just a few months before it. This wasn't done to try to win more games in 2019, it was done to set up the franchise to be better in future years (by letting a rookie QB get some valuable experience).
What does it say that this regime that almost no one here believes that Jones would be benched after a few bad games even though it would be better for the long term health of the franchise? What does it say that many on here believe that part of the reason is that they don't want to look like they have egg on their face because they gave him that contract? The majority on here believe that this regime won't do the obviously right thing to do for the future of the franchise, when even Gettleman and Shurmur would do it. It's pretty damning
Doesn't say anything about this regime. it says something about fans that see what they want to see and make shit up.
This staff isn't benching Jones unless the guy coming in is a better option.
Eli was showing signs of being cooked early on in 2019. Jones was the younger player with upside. If Devito Or Lock shows things in practice and Jones is struggling one of them will play.
It really is that simple.
Let's say the staff deems Jones to be not good enough, and someone they plan of cutting after the year, but they also think he is the best QB they have. In that case, he should still be benched because it is in the best interest of the future of the franchise. At that point it doesn't matter that Jones is the best QB on the roster, if he isn't your future you shouldn't be risking over 8% cap space for next year. Too often this franchise has been more worried about winning games in a lost year to get to 5 or 6 wins than building an actual contender
Jones isn't long for the Giants unless he has another good season mirroring 2022 or close to it. I will die on that hill. And even then they might just let him play on the last year of his deal and say do it again.
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I'm probably more bullish on DeVito than most, but I don't think he's better than a healthy Jones.
Disagree. I think DeVito will outplay Jones in camp in August. He’s a better long distance passer, understands leverage and if historical patterns hold will make a big leap in performance this season. I’m not saying he starts week 1, to be clear. Just that he should start week 1.
Agreed. He may not be a better athlete, but he is more instinctive, processes more quickly and has the courage to stand in the pocket and execute the vertical passing game.
Graded on curve I thought he was great. Graded on reality he was not.
I selfishly wanted either a WR or edge player in round 1, April. I got my wish. I think the roster is approaching a place where you have some vet star power, (5-6-7 guys here in the fold) some up n coming young players and some decent stops that can help more than hurt. To me that was equally as vital as finding the next great QB.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
I can think of one reason: perpetual losing.
Meanwhile, anyone pretending that Drew Lock is in anyway going to bail the team out is living in some fantasy world. He's here literally as an emergency replacement who gives the Giants a chance to win if Jones gets hurt. And rather than secretly hoping he plays one would think in a sane world every one here who claims to be a Giants fan should be hoping that Jones can stay healthy and plays closer to his 2022 level.
This is a message board for fans.
The idea of fans discussing hypothetical scenarios seems to confuse you, and has since you were Snablats.
Graded on curve I thought he was great. Graded on reality he was not.
One was a UDFA who had zero practice snaps until the week AFTER his 1st start, the other had been a 3-year starter. Who’s being graded on a curve?
Graded on curve I thought he was great. Graded on reality he was not.
I’m not a big DeVito fan simply because he doesn’t fit my image of a NYG QB. However, based on how he looked last year compared to any other rookie in a similar position (coming in to a team clearly out of playoff contention), he deserves another look. There are a lot of starting QBs in this league who don’t fit my image of a NYG QB.
pjcas, thank you for that.
I believe the best we will see is 2 wins (Vikings and Commanders). I don't see 3 or more. The next 3 games are against the Bengals, Eagles and Steelers. I'm concerned this could get ugly. Schoen and Dabold must be evaluating this schedule to assess "Decision Points" on when to fish or cut bait.
In my view this is a tough schedule; especially with the AFC North included. Therefore, I predict a change after game 5.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
Very good post. I agree.
Lock isn’t a good QB and DeVito isn’t very good either. If you’re hoping DJ fails it’s not going to be any better from the bench.
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Exactly. It takes a long time to get eliminated from the playoffs in the NFC now with 7 spots. We were probably the 4th worst team in the league last year and technically "in the hunt" into December.
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Yup the 17 game schedule and the extra playoff spot are working as designed.
But it is not because he's not going to be benched, he'll lose his job because of injury. I think Lock or Devito, or whoever will play marginally better than Jones and that will be it.
Until, they bring back Jones to start in 2025.
And I strongly believe both Lock and Cutlets should be allowed to be QB1 to compare how they do with the ones with how Jones’ does.
In other words, based on 2023, I see no reason to give Jones a head start. He hasn’t deserved it….I don’t care how much he makes. That does not translate into competency.
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New York Giants (eliminated in Week 16)
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Exactly. It takes a long time to get eliminated from the playoffs in the NFC now with 7 spots. We were probably the 4th worst team in the league last year and technically "in the hunt" into December.
That’s what the Maras strive for…‘meaningful December football’.
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New York Giants (eliminated in Week 16)
Even in a horrible season, the Giants were not "eliminated" unit week 16. If that's the measuring point, then Jones will play all year
Yup the 17 game schedule and the extra playoff spot are working as designed.
And bad teams can make the playoffs, like the Giants did in 2022.
1) If the stars hand aligned the Giants were willing to replace Jones with a blue chip QB
2) They also feel the skill talent and pass protection wasn't adequate, and for Jones to succeed, this needed improvement
Because they ultimately couldn't address number one, they addressed number two. I see no reason they would give Jones a short runway to prove out their thesis.
Very good post. I agree.
The Giants are heavily in like with Jones. This is not a player on the brink of losing his job to Drew Lock.
In retrospect I think the biggest signal ends up being the Burns trade. A team on a quarterback hunt doesn't trade pick 39. That's a critical asset. A team on the hunt pairs 39 and 47 and gets to 23 like Minnesota did.
With 6, 23, and next year's first round pick in play -- that's a serious offer to New England.
So Daniel Jones gets a 'bad' team (your words not mine) to the playoffs but he sucks. You guys have to get your stories straight!
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And bad teams can make the playoffs, like the Giants did in 2022.
So Daniel Jones gets a 'bad' team (your words not mine) to the playoffs but he sucks. You guys have to get your stories straight!
He didn't get them there. They got there despite the guardrails Daboll had to put on the offense to keep him from killing them.
When the guardrails came off in 2023, Jones played at a non-competitive level.
Waiting for Arch Manning is no longer a joke. Watch them trade three first runners to go up and get him when the time comes.
There were people who were genuinely gleeful at the Tommy Cutlets run last year when the Giants were an awful team playing out the string.
These a shortsighted people who care only for immediate gratification even if it's short-lived and ultimately detrimental.
It was supposed to happen last season but the FA additions didn't pan out and the OL was mostly a disaster.
Circle that Thur Night game versus Dallas on Sept 26th. Might be the date you are asking about in this OP.
What a complete waste of time this has become. This is similar to letting Eli continue to start games after the 2016 season.
People fuck up. It happens. Own it and move on instead of trying to gaslight people.
This organization is so fucking broken. No wonder fans of other teams laugh at us.
I selfishly wanted either a WR or edge player in round 1, April. I got my wish. I think the roster is approaching a place where you have some vet star power, (5-6-7 guys here in the fold) some up n coming young players and some decent stops that can help more than hurt. To me that was equally as vital as finding the next great QB.
Dream boy QB?
They may make the decision they have to move on, but not have a target to move onto.
It was supposed to happen last season but the FA additions didn't pan out and the OL was mostly a disaster.
This. LOS gets it
Yeah, Jones had some nice games. Both games against Minnesota come to mind. As does the Colts game. But that Vikes defense was atrocious (Mac Fucking Jones lit them up that season) & that Colts team had all but thrown in the towel when he faced them on 1/1/23.
& Jones had-I believe-22 TDs in all...15 throwing & 7 running. For a QB in today's NFL, that's not really all that impressive.
Daboll isn't going to put his job in the hands of a trainwreck like Lock willingly. Lock is a horrendous quarterback.
I would LOVE to know the backstory on why you randomly one day decided to hate Drew Lock with every ounce of your being. You can bullshit a lot of the posters on here and act like you just watched your little YouTube clips or looked at his stats but the smarter fans on this site no that this is absolutely personal. I’d say it’s almost an 80% chance he banged your girl. Or your sister. Or maybe you hit him up on Tinder and he blew you off. But there is no way in hell that you supposedly despise Lock as much as you do based on the laughable any of time you’ve seen him play.
Stop fucking embarrassing yourself man. You’re better than this. Or, maybe not
But then I think, there is no way they can tolerate a start like last year, so if we are losing and in any way the passing game is part of the reason, I think they give him the hook. Like pretty quick. Halftime during the browns or cowboys.
The dude has a career 20%+ bad throw rate. Every time I've seen him play, it's startling how bad he is at throwing a ball in the general vicinity of another person.
The only embarrassing that will be going on is if this goofball gets on the field.
Agree
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I think if we're 1-3 or 0-4 going into the Seattle game on 10.6, a diff QB starts that game. If that's the case, we are looking at another terrible 5-6 win season and there is no point in playing him considering the injury factor contract thing of his going into the next season.
Agree
Yr 1 in camp under Dabs he was bad. He's bad now as well. But at least they are pushing him.
Penix - ( New Window )
I'm actually with BBS on this. I never so much vitriol coming out of christian's keyboard about a player. There has to be something deeper going on...
I was hoping time away from BBI would help christian reflect a bit more about his opinions. Alas, the ban was lifted far too early...
;)
In this world there are heroes and villains. No in-between.
Second Daboll is not going to put up with check downs, especially if guys are runnjng open, with Daboll calling the plays he is not going to put up with check down charlie..
Jones to me is game to game, if he looks good he is going to play, if he is being agressive he is going to play the second he is messing up the offe se and missing wide open guys Daboll is going to make a change..
Jones has zero leash
If he doesn't get the rust off(quickly) in the next two weeks, he may not even get that far. I think Schoen and Daboll seem determined to get the offense working on the passing side.
While the oline was the biggest impediment to a good offense, Jones is just as big of a reason they have failed. He is being given all the toys. Time to put up or pick up a clip board and grab a spot at the end of the bench.
They aren't benching him if things get tough. He's in the midst of a near-flawless rehab. Jones is playing unless he physically unable.
Link - ( New Window )
They aren't benching him if things get tough. He's in the midst of a near-flawless rehab. Jones is playing unless he physically unable.
Your assessment of the off season is correct in my view - building around Jones that also happens to coincide with building a roster. But I just get the feeling that Schoen definitely, and Daboll probably, will tolerate Jones eff ups only so far. Every quip seemed to be resignation to Jones playing, more than expectation of success. Perhaps we see what we want to see - self fulfilling prophecy(?).
Alternately, Schoen admitted that they were allotting for giving Jones two years to get it done.
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
I hope he gets a legit shot at some point down the road so we can at least get a look at him. I don't know what the hell Atlanta was doing drafting him after paying Cousins. If they were that high on Penix they should have just not paid Cousins at all.
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
The Goats didn't have him marked as an injury risk on the board we saw on HK. They also didn't have him marked as a high character guy, so I'm wondering if they said more than five words to him on their visit.
They just didn't like him. Would have been nice to hear about why on HK.
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
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In comment 16565689 Go Terps said:
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
Appeal to authority!
The prediction is when will that be? I think DJ is hovering just below middling, so it won't be a great season, but we'll be in the hunt for quite a while.
The only thing that gets him benched is if Lock or Devito are looking good, which probably isn't likely, or if DJ gets injured, which is a good possibility.
IF the OL is improved, he will probably outperform most BBIers' expectations. The rest of the O has to be there, too. IF it is, DJ may not shine, but he'll be good enough to keep the job.
Rumors have it that Daboll was head over heels in love with Nabers. IF he was a prime voice steering Schoen away from an available QB and that QB does well, while DJ struggles, you betcher ass Dabs is on the hotseat, especially if we're out of contention early.
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In comment 16565689 Go Terps said:
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
Tiresome sarcasm aside, is there any evidence to suggest that they actually do know more?
I don't think confirmation bias means what you think it means. There's nothing being confirmed here or even implied as a confirmation. This is entirely hypothetical. I'm not denying that there's bias in every answer (including yours, with an appeal to authority); it's just not confirmation bias.
A short list of guys who know 1000X more than me:
- Ben McAdoo
- Dave Gettleman
- Pat Shurmur
- Joe Judge
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
So we are on the same page, this is about talent, not whether we should have drafted Penix (which GT certainly wanted).
And I feel nearly 100% certain that they would all admit Penix has more arm talent than Jones.
If you take off your #8 jersey and have a sober moment, I have to imagine you would agree.
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In comment 16565727 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16565689 Go Terps said:
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
Tiresome sarcasm aside, is there any evidence to suggest that they actually do know more?
The $4 mill per year they are making, that you are not, generally means they know more than you.
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In comment 16565789 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 16565727 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16565689 Go Terps said:
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
Tiresome sarcasm aside, is there any evidence to suggest that they actually do know more?
The $4 mill per year they are making, that you are not, generally means they know more than you.
Look, i support daboll and schoen but the results read as 1 winning season in 3 years, and the giants as a whole have 1 winning season in the last 10 years.
"They know more than you" isnt the argument ender it used to be.
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In comment 16565789 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 16565727 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16565689 Go Terps said:
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If anyone wants to show Jones how to throw an out there are some examples here. Link - ( New Window )
You can't teach that arm talent. Jones isn't in the same universe as Penix throwing a football, especially outside the numbers.
If only Schoen and Brown and Daboll and the entire Giants personnel department knew as much as you guys
Tiresome sarcasm aside, is there any evidence to suggest that they actually do know more?
The $4 mill per year they are making, that you are not, generally means they know more than you.
Dave Gettleman and Joe Judge both made plenty of money also.
Should we continue or do you think maybe it would be easier to tap out here?
They also have far more nuances and prejudices cluttering their minds and decision-making because they have so many people and parties they need to communicate and deal with (and some they shouldn't but can't help themselves). Who to rely upon and why, and who not to.
The latter can easily mitigate/deflate the advantages from the "they know more" statement.
Last I checked, Mike Lombardi made more money as a GM than anyone here and this place thinks he’s a moron.
The Giants have been the "power bottom" of the league for years!
The Giants have been the "power bottom" of the league for years!
There's a possibility that the inverse is true: the Giants had trouble running the ball because opposing defenses didn't view the threat of their passing game as credible.