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My "What to do about Evan Neal" thread was correct. It also

Marty in Albany : 7/31/2024 6:10 pm
applies to Daniel Jones.

About Neal, I posted:
"...most people are certain that, ready or not, come what may, Neal is going to be our RT on opening day and that the 2024 season will hang in the balance. I disagree."

I said there was a good chance that Neal would not be ready to play, or even practice, because of his injuries. My prediction was justified. As of now, who knows when he'll get off the PUP list.

With that self-serving preamble out of the way, let's talk about Jones and why he "stinks."

Do not assume that Jones will be our QB against the Vikings on Sept. 8.

Although Jones is ready to practice wearing a red jersey, I question that he is recovered enough from his ACL injury for him to SAFELY play in a game where 300 pound guys with tusks will hit him as hard as they can. He may not be ready for that and might be held out of actual competition.

Here's my reasoning:
We all agree that Jones is a fast runner, and that he was among the best QBs in rushing yardage.

We also all agree that Jones has not been able to throw the ball down the field with much accuracy or success.

We also know that Jone is recovering from an ACL injury.

What is the connection? Answer: Bad legs = bad throws. That would explain his lack of accuracy throwing the ball down the field. You throw with your legs as well as with your arm. Bad legs also = "sitting duck."

Has anybody seen Jones do real sprints?

If the Giants still do sprints in practice where players (by position) sprint across the width of the field and back, and if Jones is leading his group of sprinters, then I am wrong and you need not read any further (assuming that you got this far).

But if Jones is held out of doing sprints, or looks very slow when running, then his leg has not fully recovered from the ACL.

If Jones gets into a real game before his legs are fully recovered he will not be able to avoid getting the snot knocked out of him, and that will end our season. You have to believe that Jones, DeVito, and Lock will need every bit of their elusiveness to survive our "work in progress" offensive line.

Conclusion:
If, on Sept. 8, Jones can't run to pick up yardage or avoid being sacked, then he can't throw either. That, plus his multi-million dollar injury insurance policy might be just enough to make the Giants decide to bench Jones until he can run fast.

I apologize if similar opinions have already been expressed. If so, I will delete this thread.


 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/31/2024 6:11 pm : link
Unless he’s injured, Jones is most definitely under center Week 1.
I think we should  
Bill in UT : 7/31/2024 6:16 pm : link
move Jones to guard
RE: I think we should  
Greg from LI : 7/31/2024 6:21 pm : link
In comment 16565344 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
move Jones to guard


I think we should move Jones to Idaho
Marty, straight line running  
section125 : 7/31/2024 6:37 pm : link
is not an issue with ACLs. It is cutting and turning. Jones has not had problems running.

I think you are correct that the knee is hampering the deep throws as he has to push off with that leg/knee and the ACL and PCL stabilize the knee in the process.

Also, I think Neal looks to be out as starting RT. He has not been able, as far as I can see, work with Bricillo on technique. He has flaws and he need serious coaching. Without that and without improvement, no way Daboll and Bricillo put him into a game to sabotage the offense. I think he will be back up RT until he proves his footwork is correct.

Did the season start?  
robbieballs2003 : 7/31/2024 6:40 pm : link
You are looking good but not right as of 7/31.
RE: Jones has not been able to throw the ball down the field ...  
Trainmaster : 7/31/2024 7:00 pm : link
While not encouraging, making a determination about accuracy or success after a handful of practices seems premature.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Jones' issues with deep throws and decision making will not magically get fixed during training camp / the pre-season.

But many of us guessed a few months ago that Jones would start training camp on the PUP list or would be significantly limited in training camp. It appears he's not being held back, therefore he'll have the rest of training camp, the joint practices and the pre-season (likely limited playing time) to address / correct these issues (unlike Neal, who is missing valuable time to fix his issues).

I'm willing to wait until we see Jones at the joint practices or better the pre-season games before making a "final assessment".

In Eric's "... how many games does Jones get?" thread, I guessed 2 to 8 games.
Neal  
NJBlueTuna : 7/31/2024 7:09 pm : link
Your analysis of why you were “right” about Neal was incomplete and flawed. So I stopped reading the rest of your post at that time.
Is Lock getting 1st team reps?  
D HOS : 7/31/2024 7:14 pm : link
I was wondering that today, if they are rotating in the other QB's, with the first team. If they are not, then how can any other QB be seen as a potential 1st day starter?
I disagree with the statement  
gogiants : 7/31/2024 7:20 pm : link
"We also all agree that Jones has not been able to throw the ball down the field with much accuracy or success."

In 2022 Pff ranked Jones as the 7th best in Ranking all 32 NFL starters by deep passing performance in 2022. He didn't do it a a lot but when he did he was good. Given that a blanket statement that all agree with seems a bit off.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-starters-by-deep-passing-performance-in-2022 - ( New Window )
RE: Did the season start?  
DavidinBMNY : 7/31/2024 7:30 pm : link
In comment 16565365 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
You are looking good but not right as of 7/31.
. If Jones doesn't start, I seriously would prefer them to go with Dicito.

RE: I disagree with the statement  
k2tampa : 7/31/2024 7:32 pm : link
In comment 16565391 gogiants said:
Quote:
"We also all agree that Jones has not been able to throw the ball down the field with much accuracy or success."

In 2022 Pff ranked Jones as the 7th best in Ranking all 32 NFL starters by deep passing performance in 2022. He didn't do it a a lot but when he did he was good. Given that a blanket statement that all agree with seems a bit off. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-starters-by-deep-passing-performance-in-2022 - ( New Window )


Whenever anyone say 'all' or 'every' I just laugh.

Mahomes had three passes broken up by DBs early in practice yesterday. Man, the Chiefs need to look for a new QB.

This early in preseason the team is working on installing plays into the system. So they might not have run some of these plays before. Jones is doing 11 on 11s for the first time since November. And he's working with a receiver who is faster and more explosive than any he has worked with before.

It's a little too early to freak out. Let's at least wait till we get to a preseason game.
RE: Is Lock getting 1st team reps?  
5BowlsSoon : 7/31/2024 7:35 pm : link
In comment 16565384 D HOS said:
Quote:
I was wondering that today, if they are rotating in the other QB's, with the first team. If they are not, then how can any other QB be seen as a potential 1st day starter?


I’ve been wondering about this myself….not getting any info on social media either.

Heck, I would be very happy to also hear the numbers Lock and Cutlets are putting up just as we always here Jones’ numbers. I wonder why we don’t hear those as well? I know they are facing 2nd and 3rd line players, but the numbers still have meaning.
Um, I can’t disagree more  
Rudy5757 : 7/31/2024 8:12 pm : link
Jones has been cleared to be a 100% participant in camp. He has no limitations that we are aware of.

Jones has been able to run straight line sprints already. Knee injuries are more lateral movement issues and again he has been a full participant.

Jones has been up and down in practice for the last 2 days. It’s also the time they went into full pads. I doubt Jones practices much with pads on when the team isn’t in pads. There is a little bit of an adjustment. One practice he started 2 of 6 and finished 8 of 14. So he followed his 2 of 6 with 6 of 8.

The 2nd day in pads the entire O laid an egg. Again, small sample.

The only way Jones isn’t the starter is if he gets injured.
Hasn’t Jones  
Andy in Boston : 7/31/2024 8:37 pm : link
Statistically been one the most accurate down field throwers in the nfl ?
Asshat: Jones is running fine. He is actually faster and stronger.  
George from PA : 7/31/2024 8:41 pm : link

His neck was a bigger concern than his knee.
..but that seems to have corrected itself.

At least it has gone quiet.
Thank god for reasonable takes  
knowledgetimmons : 7/31/2024 8:51 pm : link
There’s so much hyperbole and projection of sentiment here. Not to mention semantics. Many here actually agree within reason but get so caught up in minute details.

MGMT wanted an option at QB in the draft. They were close to the front and thought it would be reasonable to move up. It wasn’t. If they wanted it desperately, we wouldn’t be having these endless conversations. We’d be talking about Maye.

We know Maye was possible, personally, I think he’s the best of this group. Time will tell. I don’t know shit about scouting, for the record.

Case in point, MGMT were not sold on Maye because they barely made an effort to trade for him. I would’ve paid the price if it were my decision.
RE: Asshat: Jones is running fine. He is actually faster and stronger.  
section125 : 7/31/2024 8:51 pm : link
In comment 16565461 George from PA said:
Quote:

His neck was a bigger concern than his knee.
..but that seems to have corrected itself.

At least it has gone quiet.


In the videos I have seen, Jones looks huge, almost like an OLB in build. Not the arms, but his torso and legs.
I applaud the contrarian post  
gersh : 7/31/2024 8:58 pm : link
And see the logic
But I respectfully disagree because I believe he will give us the best chance of winning opening day. Any other factors are considered mush less significant. (Assuming he relatively healthy and safe to play)
RE: RE: Asshat: Jones is running fine. He is actually faster and stronger.  
Don from CT : 7/31/2024 8:58 pm : link
In comment 16565466 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16565461 George from PA said:


Quote:



His neck was a bigger concern than his knee.
..but that seems to have corrected itself.

At least it has gone quiet.



In the videos I have seen, Jones looks huge, almost like an OLB in build. Not the arms, but his torso and legs.




I was thinking this the other day, Jones is a big dude all around, no doubt

Put Neal at starting right tackle  
thrunthrublue : 7/31/2024 9:03 pm : link
And Jones will be back on IR and on his way out of the league before October arrives....
RE: Put Neal at starting right tackle  
Optimus-NY : 7/31/2024 9:37 pm : link
In comment 16565476 thrunthrublue said:
Quote:
And Jones will be back on IR and on his way out of the league before October arrives....


Agreed
RE: Hasn’t Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/31/2024 9:38 pm : link
In comment 16565455 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Statistically been one the most accurate down field throwers in the nfl ?


It's a misleading stat. The percentage is high while also having among the fewest attempts in the league among starting QBs.
Until a real game or five  
BobOnLI : 7/31/2024 10:13 pm : link
None of us know how good or bad he’ll be. Have a beer and hope for the best.
We are close to a stage where Jones should try out at Right Tackle  
ThomasG : 7/31/2024 10:13 pm : link
and Neal at QB.

I like Neal’s chances to come out on top with this switch.
I imagine Jones is on a short leash.  
Maijay : 8/1/2024 7:29 am : link
Six games in if he sucks to the bench he goes and stays there. If the backup gets hurt the #3 QB should start. By no means should DJ see the field again and take out any possibility of an injury settlement. Let the scouting department do their job and identify a collegiate QB to go after in the draft. Also the team must use due diligence and identify any veteran QB worth trying to acquire. After all these years if DJ has proven not to be the guy cut him next season.
Correct me if I'm wrong,  
Gruber : 8/1/2024 8:11 am : link
but it doesn't look like they are currently preparing Drew Lock to start.
RE: Correct me if I'm wrong,  
section125 : 8/1/2024 8:20 am : link
In comment 16565582 Gruber said:
Quote:
but it doesn't look like they are currently preparing Drew Lock to start.


And they shouldn't be until is clear Jones just isn't getting there.
It isn't an open competition. Jones needs every rep he can handle. They committed to Jones. Sink or swim.
RE: RE: Hasn’t Jones  
HBart : 8/1/2024 9:02 am : link
In comment 16565492 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16565455 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


Statistically been one the most accurate down field throwers in the nfl ?



It's a misleading stat. The percentage is high while also having among the fewest attempts in the league among starting QBs.

Yes - that's why the stat is a percentage.
RE: RE: RE: Hasn’t Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/1/2024 9:08 am : link
In comment 16565625 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16565492 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 16565455 Andy in Boston said:


Quote:


Statistically been one the most accurate down field throwers in the nfl ?



It's a misleading stat. The percentage is high while also having among the fewest attempts in the league among starting QBs.


Yes - that's why the stat is a percentage.


Not sure what youre trying to say here but hitting a high percentage on ~10 attempts looks pretty but unless you're familiar with what league average hit rate and attempts is, its just numbers out of context that make for a flashy stat. People were taking that to mean he was somehow better than aaron rodgers at it that one year he did it.
unless Marty had access  
fkap : 8/1/2024 9:18 am : link
to Neal's medical charts, he just made a lucky guess about PUP. He was right in cautioning against assumptions, but sans those charts, there was no reason to think one way or another. At this point, Neal is behind the curve, and it is a reasonable guess to say he may not be the starter on day one.

Jones is the opposite. All signs point to him being anointed the starter. We haven't heard much about Lock/Devito setting the world on fire, so it doesn't appear they're forcing a Jones demotion. They'll likely get more time than Jones in the preseason games, so that'll be their chance to close the gap. Until then, the safe bet is that Jones keeps the starting job. Sans L/D lighting it up in those games, Jones is likely the starter. So, right now, the prediction is about Lock and Devito, not Jones.
RE: I disagree with the statement  
Section331 : 8/1/2024 9:22 am : link
In comment 16565391 gogiants said:
Quote:
"We also all agree that Jones has not been able to throw the ball down the field with much accuracy or success."

In 2022 Pff ranked Jones as the 7th best in Ranking all 32 NFL starters by deep passing performance in 2022. He didn't do it a a lot but when he did he was good. Given that a blanket statement that all agree with seems a bit off. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-starters-by-deep-passing-performance-in-2022 - ( New Window )


He was a whopping 30th in deep passing yards, which implies most of his “deep” completions barely qualified (IIRC, it’s 20+yds?). Context matters.
Regarding Marty’s post, I believe Jones  
Section331 : 8/1/2024 9:25 am : link
has taken all or most of starting reps in practice. That would indicate he’s the starter day one.
RE: RE: Correct me if I'm wrong,  
Go Terps : 8/1/2024 9:28 am : link
In comment 16565589 section125 said:
Quote:
They committed to Jones. Sink or swim.


This I agree with. And when he sinks I hope they go down with him.
Big reactions  
Blueworm : 8/1/2024 9:31 am : link
To one shitty day.

Well it looks like the facts prove me wrong.  
Marty in Albany : 8/1/2024 9:35 am : link
If Jones can run well, there is no reason to keep him out of the game. He will be just as mobile as he was in the past and with luck he'll get better protection from the other 10 Giants.

His poor throwing accuracy may have little or nothing to do with his knee injury. We'll have to wait and see.
RE: RE: I disagree with the statement  
gogiants : 8/1/2024 10:35 am : link
In comment 16565659 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16565391 gogiants said:

Quote:

"We also all agree that Jones has not been able to throw the ball down the field with much accuracy or success."

In 2022 Pff ranked Jones as the 7th best in Ranking all 32 NFL starters by deep passing performance in 2022. He didn't do it a a lot but when he did he was good. Given that a blanket statement that all agree with seems a bit off. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-starters-by-deep-passing-performance-in-2022 - ( New Window )

He was a whopping 30th in deep passing yards, which implies most of his “deep” completions barely qualified (IIRC, it’s 20+yds?). Context matters.


Just because he does not do it a lot does not mean he is not good at it. Maybe with a poor O-line and not great receiving weapons he may have few opportunities.
there were some  
fkap : 8/1/2024 10:37 am : link
rumors that his last neck injury affected his throwing motion. Obviously, the neck has healed enough to put him back in the saddle, but it is possible that there are lingering affects. And it's also possible that the knee might be having an affect.

I don't think people are knocking those ideas. Where the pushback comes is the thought that they'll derail Jones from being starter on day one. He may lose his starting job down the line if he can't be the man, but all indications are that he is scheduled to start the season sitting in the man's chair.
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