He was a consensus top 10 pick when he came out. Some publications had him #1.
IIRC Most of us were very pleased with the pick. A few wanted Garret Wilson but even those folks were not unhappy with the pick.
So this is one man's theory of what happened. As I recall he was thrown into the fire and started out OK with some rookie growing pains. He di not get better and in fact regressed. We also heard a little about an ankle injury - not enough to keep him out.
I wonder if it was enough to render him less effective. He had some issues last year in training camp and the obviously during the season. I saw several interviews where coaches/teammates defended him and essentially said, "He's tough, you don't know what he is going through". The off season surgery seems to have been more than just a "clean-up".
So what does this mean? I wonder if he has ever really been fully healthy. It seems like the Giants are determined to hold him back until he is really ready this year. Even if it takes all year. There are worse outcomes. I still think he can be a very good player if healthy. He works hard has great size/strength and has shown ability in college. I am actually encouraged to see that he is not being rushed. (Cause the rusher would go right by him :-))
Seriously, he may always be hurt. He may have fatal flaws that were hidden in college. I am just not ready to call him a bad player or a bust. My prediction/hope is that he starts the season as a swing tackle and is inserted into the starting line-up tackle/guard when there is an injury and that he plays well and never looks back.
Hope springs eternal.
This is not good, but it's totally normal. Neal was an excellent prospect. He's not looking like a good NFL player. It happens all the time.
Look, I'm fine with missing out on draft picks. That is part of the business. But good management is quickly identifying the mistake as too risky to keep; and then moving on from it.
Unless there is major turnaround, the plan right now should be to have this be Neal's last season.
For all we know, Neal - despite being a big dude - may have been intimidated by this level of football, and not ready for primetime.
I've personally thought the whole time he's a better G than T, so I'm hoping they plug him in at G when he returns, and he kicks ass.
Look, I'm fine with missing out on draft picks. That is part of the business. But good management is quickly identifying the mistake as too risky to keep; and then moving on from it.
Unless there is major turnaround, the plan right now should be to have this be Neal's last season.
Yup. People fuck up. No one is perfect. But what's paramount is realizing you fucked up, not doubling down on it like this organization has done @ other positions.
I think from the initial Hard Knocks episodes, it's clear to me that taking a different and more aggressive approach to address the offensive line has been the plan all along, regardless of the "Neal setbacks".
The fact that it appears the Giants won't be scanning lists of other teams' final 53 cuts to find an opening day OL starter(s) is evidence of the alternate approach.
From the Q&As with Daboll on Neal, Neal doesn't sound like he's close to practicing.
Neal will likely be an in season "in case of emergency, break glass" (reference intentional) kind of backup.
After sucking for 2 years they brought in legit competition for his spot. It all makes sense.
Anything.
I have a feeling that if he ever does anything it won't be here.
Is this something the Giants have to worry about? So far the decision is very easy.
Anything.
Is there even a market for him?
Anything.
Couldn't get much for him, might as well keep him and see if he can 1) get healthy and 2) contribute anywhere on the line. A guy that big should be able to block SOMEBODY.
It looks like Neal is the latter. The initial concern was that we were "wasting a 7th overall pick on a player with the talent to start at left tackle", rather than any real concerns that Neal wouldn't be able to play tackle in the NFL.
I’m not a doctor but my educated guess is that reading “interpreting” an X-ray is not always clear. The smaller the fracture, the more difficult it is to see. MRIs should be used to detect smaller/more difficult to see fractures. I’m not sure what they did here? They probably missed it at first and it got worse?
They are probably also relying on the player complaining of pain.
It’s easy to say the medical staff was incompetent here. But the reality is likely much more nuanced or complicated.
It was a huge swing and a miss. It stings because he was the 7th pick in the draft, but it's over for him here at least and it is time to move on.
JMS and Ezedu are next if they don't get it turned around.
It was a huge swing and a miss. It stings because he was the 7th pick in the draft, but it's over for him here at least and it is time to move on.
JMS and Ezedu are next if they don't get it turned around.
I predict that this post will not age well
Or maybe it is my prediction that Neal is still the Giants RT of the future (later this season and moving forward). But he obviously lost the job for now.
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to come to grips with the fact that he's done in NY. This noise about him returning as RT once he's healthy is just that, noise.
It was a huge swing and a miss. It stings because he was the 7th pick in the draft, but it's over for him here at least and it is time to move on.
JMS and Ezedu are next if they don't get it turned around.
I predict that this post will not age well
Or maybe it is my prediction that Neal is still the Giants RT of the future (later this season and moving forward). But he obviously lost the job for now.
We'll see. I'd love to be wrong.
I'm no Dr. obviously - I still refer to cranium as "noggin" or "headbone".
Daboll and Bricillo are not going to indulge him. He won't play unless it's on merit.
So, most likely his future, if he has one, will be at guard.
Don’t remember Neal playing well in 2022 at all but maybe you can refresh my memory. Did he pancake people left n right that big road win at Washington? Or the win and in game at home vs Indy. Maybe Neal was player of the week against GB or Jax and I simply forgot. Maybe he was the best player on the field in the rose playoff win, again, I forget things sometimes.
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until he is on his second contract
Don’t remember Neal playing well in 2022 at all but maybe you can refresh my memory. Did he pancake people left n right that big road win at Washington? Or the win and in game at home vs Indy. Maybe Neal was player of the week against GB or Jax and I simply forgot. Maybe he was the best player on the field in the rose playoff win, again, I forget things sometimes.
Hmmm sarcasm. Nice.
No - he has never played at a consistently high level in the pros.
I going with - it’s more likely than not that he will.
Time will tell.
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In comment 16567344 BigBlueinDE said:
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to come to grips with the fact that he's done in NY. This noise about him returning as RT once he's healthy is just that, noise.
It was a huge swing and a miss. It stings because he was the 7th pick in the draft, but it's over for him here at least and it is time to move on.
JMS and Ezedu are next if they don't get it turned around.
I predict that this post will not age well
Or maybe it is my prediction that Neal is still the Giants RT of the future (later this season and moving forward). But he obviously lost the job for now.
We'll see. I'd love to be wrong.
And maybe I’m being blindly optimistic.
Guys rated highly in the draft bust all the time.
I think he has the right body type, work ethic and enough ability to still be (very) good.
Yes, anyone whose a real fan hopes he will put it together
The team has made contingency plans, so we can just hope now.
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About Neal’s fifth year option this offseason. Neal will fall into the bottom tier of the salary scale due to his missing so much playing time. 2021 draftee Alijah Vera Tucker is slated to receive $15.3mm when the Jets exercised the option. Neal’s option will be higher than that, prob around $17mm.
Is this something the Giants have to worry about? So far the decision is very easy.
MS - so far you’re right. But what if Neal regains his health mid season, gets on the field and flourishes for 6-8 games. That’s a possibility? Then what do you do if you’re Schoen? That’s a small sample size. It’s actually another Daniel Jones like situation except the player in question was an elite draft prospect.
Link - ( New Window )
teams spend so much effort in the draft process to understand a player’s psyche, but unfortunately for us, that “red flag” didn’t reveal itself until way after the draft (that we know of).
for a player to say what he said about fans of a sport that he gets paid millions of dollars to play tells me two things:
- wrong type of response to criticism —> can’t handle the heat of the pros
- lack of self control —> wont last in the NY market
if there is ONE thing this organization could do differently to change our awful trajectory right now, it would be to stop giving shitty players too many chances. once they show you who they are, get rid of their asses.
teams spend so much effort in the draft process to understand a player’s psyche, but unfortunately for us, that “red flag” didn’t reveal itself until way after the draft (that we know of).
for a player to say what he said about fans of a sport that he gets paid millions of dollars to play tells me two things:
- wrong type of response to criticism —> can’t handle the heat of the pros
- lack of self control —> wont last in the NY market
if there is ONE thing this organization could do differently to change our awful trajectory right now, it would be to stop giving shitty players too many chances. once they show you who they are, get rid of their asses.
The kid was what - 22?
Under intense scrutiny and being peppered by questions by reporters.
Yes, that’s the job but….
He’s probably failing at football for the first time in his life.
I agree it shows something we would rather not be there, but most players probably think it, but are smart enough not to say it to a reporter.
My hope is that he just needs a little time to get himself right both physically and mentally.
I’d go with
Changing technique and getting injured before can feel comfortable
Again, I think he had the physical and mental ability to be very good (and maybe great) but it takes a lot of reps to improve.
He relied on what had worked at Alabama. From what I read, that involved a lunging technique. That obviously had not worked for him in the pros.
Now he has the time to regain his physical ability to allow him to develop the correct technique to improve.
Hmmm
The point is well taken
But still some irony shines through
I don't know him but the red flags show a low EQ. Maybe it doesn't mean anything - I mean we get so little info (and that in itself is a red flag). Andrew Thomas said in his interview he helps "motivate him". Kind of weird.
The burgers comment was an obvious clue he is immature - lashing out. Then he disappeared. I'm thinking, can I guy with this EQ, with all the roaring crowds coming at him, its 3rd down and they line up Parsons across from him - you now fans will be ready to boo his ass - how will he react?
TBH Im not sure if I'll ever get to see it, would not be shocked if he doesn't play this season - why? I dont think he wants to be here with fans he insulted. Hope he proves me wrong.
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From everything else I’ve seen and read about him, he’s a high character kid who will put in the work to get better
I don't know him but the red flags show a low EQ. Maybe it doesn't mean anything - I mean we get so little info (and that in itself is a red flag). Andrew Thomas said in his interview he helps "motivate him". Kind of weird.
The burgers comment was an obvious clue he is immature - lashing out. Then he disappeared. I'm thinking, can I guy with this EQ, with all the roaring crowds coming at him, its 3rd down and they line up Parsons across from him - you now fans will be ready to boo his ass - how will he react?
TBH Im not sure if I'll ever get to see it, would not be shocked if he doesn't play this season - why? I dont think he wants to be here with fans he insulted. Hope he proves me wrong.
Wow, terrible take. Did you purposely take everything as negatively as possible.
If you had an illness that kept coming back over and over, you wouldn't get demoralized? The comment by Thomas is a teammate motivating another to stay "up". It is done everywhere. It is done in the weight room. It is done on the field. His entire life he has been dominant and now an ankle injury is keeping him from playing.
As far as the flipping hamburger comment, which I barely remember, it was likely appropriate.
This is not good, but it's totally normal. Neal was an excellent prospect. He's not looking like a good NFL player. It happens all the time.
If you can’t even get average starter play from the 7th overall pick, that is an enormous miss. Busts happen but Schoen needs to hit on some moves…
I don’t get why fans are so ready to easily excuse this.
That said, I also wonder if the Leonard Davis career trajectory is going to be his best case scenario and best path forward. It's tough to give up OT money to move to OG and that is probably not going to happen voluntarily until his second contract. Including this one, Neal has two seasons remaining prior to the decision on his 5th year option. I can't see the Jints exercising that unless he not only proves himself at RT but also becomes one of the top tier RTs.
Your mileage may vary....
Your mileage may vary....
Decision on 5th year option is after the third season, so Neal just has 2024 to earn it.
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Even high picks. Even picks made by good, smart teams. You need to hit on some of them and you need to respond properly when a guy looks like he's not working.
This is not good, but it's totally normal. Neal was an excellent prospect. He's not looking like a good NFL player. It happens all the time.
If you can’t even get average starter play from the 7th overall pick, that is an enormous miss. Busts happen but Schoen needs to hit on some moves…
I don’t get why fans are so ready to easily excuse this.
I think we are just tired of harping. Perhaps it is more that you need to accept that even good college FB players sometimes don't make it. How many QBs (1st round) wash out badly.
I want to see Neal when he is healthy and after Bricillo gets a chance to coach him up.