The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
" poor Danie". In quotes. Quotes. OK smartass, I defy you to find me a single post where anyone who called him "poor Daniel" besides his detractors. Some of you just make shit up. Plenty of us think he's a mediocre QB who could go either way on any given Sunday, with enough brains to figure out if the rest of the team has a good day, it's more likely than not he will as well. I've seen him lose games when everyone else is playing well, and win games when no one else showed up but hi. You can tell me I haven't seen it, but the thing is, I have, and more than once. I'm indifferent as to whether or not they get as new QB. wouldn't have cared a bit if they had drafted one. Fine. They didn't. They can next year, that's fine too. But making shit up, putting words in people mouths that were never said to make a point maybe means you're full of shit?
at least one poster commented about all that Jones has been through. Sympathy oozing off the screen. Like Jones was Evan Gershkovich returning from a Russian prison.
RE: Daniel Jones and Trevor Lawrence are comparable
Look at won loss, completion percentage and most QBs.
Personally I find Cowberd entertaining. He takes contrarian positions. Sometimes he makes a unique, value added observation. Sometimes he take ridiculous takes.
The DJ Haters Society versus the DJ Fan Club discussions are so tiresome. Almost any Giants thread, not just QB thread or Jones thread gets run by the same guys taking the same takes over and over and over and over …
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Per some, Jones needs All Pros @ EVERY position to succeed. I kid, but there's some truth to that thought among the Jones diehards.
Forget that for a second he's making $35.5 million this season. And was drafted sixth overall. Call me loco, but shouldn't it be incumbent upon him to elevate others?
Don’t stop posting cause of a few posters. Always enjoyed your contributions.
thanks JT.
I'm not going to stop. I just don't post often anymore. The conversations around here just tend to be tiresome and pointless. So I just check up on happenings. Everyone is frustrated with this team, myself included, so it tends to drag stuff down. I'm sure it'll get better when the team is better.
New season, new chance for optimism. I'm looking forward to it.
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
agreed
We need better QB play. But whoever is the QB will need better OL play
Go out and produce. No more fucking excuses. Prove everybody wrong: media, fans, and players throughout league.
4000 yards, 25-30 tds, 10-12 INT’s and 9-10 wins.
Thats not asking for a lot, is it?
Exactly. I cannot recall a guy this lackluster getting this long a leash and scholarship because he looks and acts like a qb out of central casting and the owner looks at him like a son. Go and produce and stop clinging to the excuses.
Curious whether the guy in Seattle was right that they promised Lock a chance as the starter. If so, Lock got sold a bill of goods.
but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
From your lips . . .
Nabers is going to be double teamed and there will be combo zones and other tactics thrown at him. Can the QB make the right read or make defenses pay by going elsewhere with the ball? History says Jones will hang on to the ball because he can't figure out who is open where or will need to see the receiver wide open before he throws or dump it off quickly short and the line will be blamed for not giving him the 10 seconds he needs to study, but maybe the light will come on.
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
" poor Danie". In quotes. Quotes. OK smartass, I defy you to find me a single post where anyone who called him "poor Daniel" besides his detractors. Some of you just make shit up. Plenty of us think he's a mediocre QB who could go either way on any given Sunday, with enough brains to figure out if the rest of the team has a good day, it's more likely than not he will as well. I've seen him lose games when everyone else is playing well, and win games when no one else showed up but hi. You can tell me I haven't seen it, but the thing is, I have, and more than once. I'm indifferent as to whether or not they get as new QB. wouldn't have cared a bit if they had drafted one. Fine. They didn't. They can next year, that's fine too. But making shit up, putting words in people mouths that were never said to make a point maybe means you're full of shit?
I don’t think you understand how quotation marks work, smart ass.
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Agreed. Criticism of Jones is wrong because he won a playoff game and is better than Wilson, Pickett, and Fields? That is an unacceptably low bar.
Jones is going into his sixth season. I hope he has some major career year, but he's most likely a journeyman backup. He also has an extensive injury history. Hard Knocks showed that the Giants desperately tried to trade up to get Maye, which by itself proves the FO doesn't think Jones is the future QB of the Giants. They're simply stuck with him for another year.
This is exactly what Schoen and Dabs are saying to him. They tried to trade up to draft their guy. It did not happen. Next year there will be a new starting QB on this team. Maybe sooner.
Keep your eye out for this. I don't think the Steelers will be able to make both QBs happy over there. I would not be surprised if their is a deal done. After this season, Kirk Cousins will be available.
at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
RE: RE: at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
RE: at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
Let's say for the sake of argument that's true.
Why couldn't you make the same case for a QB on a rookie contract instead of a 6-year veteran who counts $47 million against the 2024 cap?
If you only "need" a decent QB, shouldn't the idea be to have a decent QB at significant cost savings that could be spent building other areas of the roster?
And I promise you that if Jones is adequate (however a person defines that term) and the Giants win 7-8 games, Jones will 100% be the starting QB in 2025, with no legitimate competition.
RE: RE: RE: at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
Bitch and complain that this team sucks for over a decade. And if (notice the word if) the team goes 10-7, makes the playoffs - now it’s pretty sad?
The context of that 10-7 note above was not that a 10-7 season alone would be sad. It's that a 10-7 season representing some massive redemption is sad, because it's not THAT momentous of an accomplishment, unless it's accompanied by something bigger (like the 2011 championship from a 9-7 team). Otherwise, 10-7 is the sort of season that a pretender can occasionally cobble together with a little bit of luck.
Bad teams (and bad QBs) can produce outlier seasons where they finish 10-7 and in the playoffs; that doesn't make them good teams. Blake Bortles reached the AFC Championship. Tim Tebow won a playoff game. We know that neither of those QBs were any good. Imagine the fans who were pointing to those seasons as proof that they were legitimate franchise QBs? We'd laugh at them.
I think what people are saying is that it's sad that anyone is considering 10-7 a redemption-worthy outcome. Maybe that bar should be a little bit higher if the argument is that it's going to prove all the haters wrong.
The poster said if we go 10-7 this season - and was responded with “well that’s pretty sad”.
I think it will be a huge step forward. But I guess bitching is the theme of the summer here.
Let's make this simple.
Here's the first line that mentions 10-7:
Quote:
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
And here's the response:
Quote:
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
I know you just want to argue about it, but it's obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills that the response was clearly in the context of the "give em' [sic] Hell [sic] Danny Boy" line.
What a fucking bore you are. Just another stain on this site that makes it miserable for people to read threads.
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
Still trying to make fetch happen, eh dep? Your Boggle joke is as lame as you are.
I know it's frustrating for you to go up against me because I'm just so far above your intellectual capacity, but no one is making you do it. You choose to embarrass yourself on your own.
Your next original thought on this site will be your first.
A true MMQB warrior who only comes to this site to insult others because he’s been a major disappointment in life. Seriously think about this. You come to an anonymous site to get your rocks off by insulting others.
About as pathetic as it comes.
And we both know my boggles comments are funny since you definitely play in tournaments and get smashed in them… hahaha.
Shit…. Then what was it when we went 9-7 in 2011???
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
So a good season?
If the crowd that's optimistic about Jones could muster the simple phrase "I believe Daniel Jones can win a championship with the Giants" -- I think crowd that's pessimistic would disagree, but at least respect the opinion.
If the optimistic upside is just make the playoffs, that's a pretty low bar.
The first two comments regarding the 10-7 season are quite obviously up for interpretation, at least in my eyes. One sees it one way, another sees it different.
The goal is to make the playoffs every year. Whether you’re 9-8 or 15-2.
Because once you get in - anything can happen which we have seen in every professional sport. So going 10-7 is not a low bar whatsoever and it has nothing to do with Daniel Jones either.
The goal of a current team is to make the playoffs - so going 10-7 this year, next or for the next 5 years is not pretty sad whatsoever.
So by year 5-6, a QB with a big contract should be leading his teams to a title contender? Right?
If you're super fan number one of a quarterback in year 6 of his career, you should definitely believe the guy can be a title contender.
I agree with you.
But QB is a very hard position to judge. It would be ludicrous for me to say that the Chargers should move on from Herbert right? I mean really good teams with a lot of talent, and 0 playoff wins? They’re nowhere near a title contender but we both agree he is a piece.
Now is Jones a piece? Probably not. But it’s hard to argue during the last 5 years any QB would make us a title contender maybe outside Mahomes. My point is you want to be competitive every year. So Jones making the playoffs this year is not pretty sad. Nor would it have been any year he was our QB.
Seems like we are doing better evaluating talent and getting rid of the fat we don’t need. It’s not blasphemy to say Jones can be a playoff QB and we can still look to improve on him.
A 10-7 season wouldn't be a surprise to me. I am expecting that a a minimum, provided major injuries are avoided. I called it a surprise in the sense that it will suprise the "experts" who have already predicted to Giants to finish last in the Division. Look at Vegas for crying out loud. The over under is 6.5 wins. All things break well, I think this team could even make it to 11 or 12 wins.
JT, I think with a very good offensive coach an outstanding young receiving group, plus a defensive that is full of young promising players, a Herbert/Giants team would be a Super Bowl favorite.
JT, I think with a very good offensive coach an outstanding young receiving group, plus a defensive that is full of young promising players, a Herbert/Giants team would be a Super Bowl favorite.
I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
Three.
And DJ's had the worst OL and receivers combination in the league. That affects a QB's production. I've watched tons of Herbert because I like watching him play. His WRs are much better than anything DJ's had. Josh Palmer (his #3) is better than DJ's WR1 (Slayton). Keenan Allen in particular is the most underrated WR in the league IMO.
The Giants Oline has been awful and his receivers have not shown they are consistent contributors. But it is also true that you can have a bad QB behind a bad with bad receivers. It is disingenuous to pretend that there have not been plenty of instances where guys have been open, and he has had time, where he has not gotten it done.
This team sucking is a meal prepared by a bunch of terrible cooks. Jones is just one of the reasons this team is bad. Having a bad line and weak receivers does not absolve him for his poor play.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
Personally I find Cowberd entertaining. He takes contrarian positions. Sometimes he makes a unique, value added observation. Sometimes he take ridiculous takes.
The DJ Haters Society versus the DJ Fan Club discussions are so tiresome. Almost any Giants thread, not just QB thread or Jones thread gets run by the same guys taking the same takes over and over and over and over …
Ugh
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Per some, Jones needs All Pros @ EVERY position to succeed. I kid, but there's some truth to that thought among the Jones diehards.
Forget that for a second he's making $35.5 million this season. And was drafted sixth overall. Call me loco, but shouldn't it be incumbent upon him to elevate others?
I'm not going to stop. I just don't post often anymore. The conversations around here just tend to be tiresome and pointless. So I just check up on happenings. Everyone is frustrated with this team, myself included, so it tends to drag stuff down. I'm sure it'll get better when the team is better.
New season, new chance for optimism. I'm looking forward to it.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
Quote:
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
We need better QB play. But whoever is the QB will need better OL play
Jones needs to take advantage of him if we want to win. If Jones can’t do that, he’s not capable of being our QB.
4000 yards, 25-30 tds, 10-12 INT’s and 9-10 wins.
Thats not asking for a lot, is it?
Curious whether the guy in Seattle was right that they promised Lock a chance as the starter. If so, Lock got sold a bill of goods.
Quote:
In comment 16569611 Csonka said:
Quote:
but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
Nabers is going to be double teamed and there will be combo zones and other tactics thrown at him. Can the QB make the right read or make defenses pay by going elsewhere with the ball? History says Jones will hang on to the ball because he can't figure out who is open where or will need to see the receiver wide open before he throws or dump it off quickly short and the line will be blamed for not giving him the 10 seconds he needs to study, but maybe the light will come on.
Quote:
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
" poor Danie". In quotes. Quotes. OK smartass, I defy you to find me a single post where anyone who called him "poor Daniel" besides his detractors. Some of you just make shit up. Plenty of us think he's a mediocre QB who could go either way on any given Sunday, with enough brains to figure out if the rest of the team has a good day, it's more likely than not he will as well. I've seen him lose games when everyone else is playing well, and win games when no one else showed up but hi. You can tell me I haven't seen it, but the thing is, I have, and more than once. I'm indifferent as to whether or not they get as new QB. wouldn't have cared a bit if they had drafted one. Fine. They didn't. They can next year, that's fine too. But making shit up, putting words in people mouths that were never said to make a point maybe means you're full of shit?
I don’t think you understand how quotation marks work, smart ass.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Agreed. Criticism of Jones is wrong because he won a playoff game and is better than Wilson, Pickett, and Fields? That is an unacceptably low bar.
Jones is going into his sixth season. I hope he has some major career year, but he's most likely a journeyman backup. He also has an extensive injury history. Hard Knocks showed that the Giants desperately tried to trade up to get Maye, which by itself proves the FO doesn't think Jones is the future QB of the Giants. They're simply stuck with him for another year.
This is exactly what Schoen and Dabs are saying to him. They tried to trade up to draft their guy. It did not happen. Next year there will be a new starting QB on this team. Maybe sooner.
Keep your eye out for this. I don't think the Steelers will be able to make both QBs happy over there. I would not be surprised if their is a deal done. After this season, Kirk Cousins will be available.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
Quote:
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
Let's say for the sake of argument that's true.
Why couldn't you make the same case for a QB on a rookie contract instead of a 6-year veteran who counts $47 million against the 2024 cap?
If you only "need" a decent QB, shouldn't the idea be to have a decent QB at significant cost savings that could be spent building other areas of the roster?
And I promise you that if Jones is adequate (however a person defines that term) and the Giants win 7-8 games, Jones will 100% be the starting QB in 2025, with no legitimate competition.
Quote:
In comment 16570002 The Jake said:
Quote:
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
Well, consider the poster.
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
Quote:
Shit…. Then what was it when we went 9-7 in 2011???
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
So a good season?
The context of that 10-7 note above was not that a 10-7 season alone would be sad. It's that a 10-7 season representing some massive redemption is sad, because it's not THAT momentous of an accomplishment, unless it's accompanied by something bigger (like the 2011 championship from a 9-7 team). Otherwise, 10-7 is the sort of season that a pretender can occasionally cobble together with a little bit of luck.
Bad teams (and bad QBs) can produce outlier seasons where they finish 10-7 and in the playoffs; that doesn't make them good teams. Blake Bortles reached the AFC Championship. Tim Tebow won a playoff game. We know that neither of those QBs were any good. Imagine the fans who were pointing to those seasons as proof that they were legitimate franchise QBs? We'd laugh at them.
I think what people are saying is that it's sad that anyone is considering 10-7 a redemption-worthy outcome. Maybe that bar should be a little bit higher if the argument is that it's going to prove all the haters wrong.
I think it will be a huge step forward. But I guess bitching is the theme of the summer here.
I think it will be a huge step forward. But I guess bitching is the theme of the summer here.
Let's make this simple.
Here's the first line that mentions 10-7:
And here's the response:
I know you just want to argue about it, but it's obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills that the response was clearly in the context of the "give em' [sic] Hell [sic] Danny Boy" line.
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
Still trying to make fetch happen, eh dep? Your Boggle joke is as lame as you are.
I know it's frustrating for you to go up against me because I'm just so far above your intellectual capacity, but no one is making you do it. You choose to embarrass yourself on your own.
Your next original thought on this site will be your first.
A true MMQB warrior who only comes to this site to insult others because he’s been a major disappointment in life. Seriously think about this. You come to an anonymous site to get your rocks off by insulting others.
About as pathetic as it comes.
And we both know my boggles comments are funny since you definitely play in tournaments and get smashed in them… hahaha.
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
So a good season?
If the crowd that's optimistic about Jones could muster the simple phrase "I believe Daniel Jones can win a championship with the Giants" -- I think crowd that's pessimistic would disagree, but at least respect the opinion.
If the optimistic upside is just make the playoffs, that's a pretty low bar.
Because once you get in - anything can happen which we have seen in every professional sport. So going 10-7 is not a low bar whatsoever and it has nothing to do with Daniel Jones either.
The goal of a current team is to make the playoffs - so going 10-7 this year, next or for the next 5 years is not pretty sad whatsoever.
We're making fun of the guy because his "you'll see" is the functional equivalent of a slap in a gunfight.
If the big gotcha is Jones gets to the playoffs, we're not impressed. In year 6, with a loaded roster, a quarterback should be a championship threat.
If the big gotcha is Jones gets to the playoffs, we're not impressed. In year 6, with a loaded roster, a quarterback should be a championship threat.
So by year 5-6, a QB with a big contract should be leading his teams to a title contender? Right?
If you're super fan number one of a quarterback in year 6 of his career, you should definitely believe the guy can be a title contender.
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So by year 5-6, a QB with a big contract should be leading his teams to a title contender? Right?
If you're super fan number one of a quarterback in year 6 of his career, you should definitely believe the guy can be a title contender.
I agree with you.
But QB is a very hard position to judge. It would be ludicrous for me to say that the Chargers should move on from Herbert right? I mean really good teams with a lot of talent, and 0 playoff wins? They’re nowhere near a title contender but we both agree he is a piece.
Now is Jones a piece? Probably not. But it’s hard to argue during the last 5 years any QB would make us a title contender maybe outside Mahomes. My point is you want to be competitive every year. So Jones making the playoffs this year is not pretty sad. Nor would it have been any year he was our QB.
Seems like we are doing better evaluating talent and getting rid of the fat we don’t need. It’s not blasphemy to say Jones can be a playoff QB and we can still look to improve on him.
That's my only point.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
Gotcha, thanks..
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
Agreed.
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I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
Three.
Herbert can win a title- but has been unlucky with his coach (Staley was AWFUL), untimely injuries, and a little bit of bad luck.
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In comment 16570185 christian said:
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I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
Three.
And DJ's had the worst OL and receivers combination in the league. That affects a QB's production. I've watched tons of Herbert because I like watching him play. His WRs are much better than anything DJ's had. Josh Palmer (his #3) is better than DJ's WR1 (Slayton). Keenan Allen in particular is the most underrated WR in the league IMO.
It matters.
The Giants Oline has been awful and his receivers have not shown they are consistent contributors. But it is also true that you can have a bad QB behind a bad with bad receivers. It is disingenuous to pretend that there have not been plenty of instances where guys have been open, and he has had time, where he has not gotten it done.
This team sucking is a meal prepared by a bunch of terrible cooks. Jones is just one of the reasons this team is bad. Having a bad line and weak receivers does not absolve him for his poor play.