That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Let me guess, he used an absolute reach of an analogy to make his point too?
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Cowherd and his ilk take contrarian points to drive viewers/listeners. Saying Jones is unfairly criticized is a contrarian point of view outside the Giants fan base.
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Let me guess, he used an absolute reach of an analogy to make his point too?
I see you're familiar with his work.
In case anyone was curious, the combined 2025 cap hits for the three QBs old Colin used in his comparison:
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Let me guess, he used an absolute reach of an analogy to make his point too?
I see you're familiar with his work.
In case anyone was curious, the combined 2025 cap hits for the three QBs old Colin used in his comparison:
Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
Well just going by the chart you posted, they aren't. Not far off, but Jones is clearly the best of the three even if the margin of difference isn't large.
I don't think there are many here that will argue with you about Jones having been good. He hasn't been. But you tend to talk about nothing else and it is exhausting because it takes over every conversation. Making conversation here annoying at best and impossible at worst. So find a new topic, we all already know how you feel on this one. Your continued antics only force more people to defend Jones.
Now maybe you like your schtick and it is just a big game to you. But it drags down all conversation on this board.
We get it, Jones is bad, you think Jones is bad. Can you just stop talking about him at all at this point? The only thing worse than the last several years of Giants football is people like you making the entire conversation about the team about one player. So we can't really enjoy the games much and people like you have made it unenjoyable to even talk about the team. Just stop it, it's old, it's tired, it's overdone and it's annoying. I'll stipulate that you are right....now move on please. Nothing you say here will change what the Giants do with Daniel Jones.
No one has gotten more mileage out of a playoff win than Daniel Jones.
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
X infinity.
I find the sympathy card played on this board for Jones beyond annoying. Someone wrote yesterday we should admire Jones for how much he has been through since he's been here. I wanted to remind the poster that it's not like Jones is jumping out of a Higgins boat to fight on Omaha Beach.
He's a lottery draft choice on a big second contract that his team out-negotiated Schoen on beautifully.
Just more proof how low expectations continue to be around here for poor Daniel Jones.
Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
Well just going by the chart you posted, they aren't. Not far off, but Jones is clearly the best of the three even if the margin of difference isn't large.
I don't think there are many here that will argue with you about Jones having been good. He hasn't been. But you tend to talk about nothing else and it is exhausting because it takes over every conversation. Making conversation here annoying at best and impossible at worst. So find a new topic, we all already know how you feel on this one. Your continued antics only force more people to defend Jones.
Now maybe you like your schtick and it is just a big game to you. But it drags down all conversation on this board.
We get it, Jones is bad, you think Jones is bad. Can you just stop talking about him at all at this point? The only thing worse than the last several years of Giants football is people like you making the entire conversation about the team about one player. So we can't really enjoy the games much and people like you have made it unenjoyable to even talk about the team. Just stop it, it's old, it's tired, it's overdone and it's annoying. I'll stipulate that you are right....now move on please. Nothing you say here will change what the Giants do with Daniel Jones.
Your interpretation of the numbers is interesting.
Also, the thread is about Jones, and I didn't start it.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
And yet neither has ever played behind a line as bad as Jones, especially last year, or with receivers as bad as Jones, much less both. I wish someone would point out the QB who would be top 10 in his situation. Mahomes stunk in the SB against the Bucs when two of his starting OL were out, yet the guys playing in front of him still had more experience than the guys the Giants were playing for games 2 thru 10 last year.
Jones ain't a star. But he gets blamed for a whole lot that he can't control.
RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
And yet neither has ever played behind a line as bad as Jones, especially last year, or with receivers as bad as Jones, much less both. I wish someone would point out the QB who would be top 10 in his situation. Mahomes stunk in the SB against the Bucs when two of his starting OL were out, yet the guys playing in front of him still had more experience than the guys the Giants were playing for games 2 thru 10 last year.
Jones ain't a star. But he gets blamed for a whole lot that he can't control.
Well it looks like the OL is going to be a problem again, so the 2024 excuse will be locked and loaded to bring Jones back in 2025.
RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The truth can be hard to accept
Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
Well just going by the chart you posted, they aren't. Not far off, but Jones is clearly the best of the three even if the margin of difference isn't large.
I don't think there are many here that will argue with you about Jones having been good. He hasn't been. But you tend to talk about nothing else and it is exhausting because it takes over every conversation. Making conversation here annoying at best and impossible at worst. So find a new topic, we all already know how you feel on this one. Your continued antics only force more people to defend Jones.
Now maybe you like your schtick and it is just a big game to you. But it drags down all conversation on this board.
We get it, Jones is bad, you think Jones is bad. Can you just stop talking about him at all at this point? The only thing worse than the last several years of Giants football is people like you making the entire conversation about the team about one player. So we can't really enjoy the games much and people like you have made it unenjoyable to even talk about the team. Just stop it, it's old, it's tired, it's overdone and it's annoying. I'll stipulate that you are right....now move on please. Nothing you say here will change what the Giants do with Daniel Jones.
Your interpretation of the numbers is interesting.
Also, the thread is about Jones, and I didn't start it.
Not my interpretation, it is quite clear, if also quite close. Did you look at them? Like a nickel vs 4 pennies. Clearly the nickel is worth more, just not by much.
This thread it is fine, which is why I addressed it in this thread. I'm talking about all the others. Just move on man and I don't disagree with you on Jones, just tired of it. We have less redundant conversations with Halloween decorations at the hallmark store.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
Maybe Darnold shouldn't be, Trubinsky tho is just terrible
RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
Has looked good the past couple of days. He’s gaining confidence, and getting his timing back too. The effect of an improved OL and Nabers.
The reality for the NFL is there are two ways to win. Elite QB, or elite team around good enough QB. Jones will never be an elite option, but he can be “good enough”. I don’t see too much of a difference between DJ and guys like Goff and Purdy, who played for an NFC title last year.
Even going back over the years - look at some of the guys who have won divisions and/or made the playoffs in the NFC. Case Keenum, Nick Foles, Geno Smith, Trubisky…
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
Prescription-strength copium in the form of denial, huh? If Terps isn't here to remind you that DJ is a liability, DJ will magically cease to actually BE a liability?
Why not wish for the actual problems of the Giants to disappear instead of trying to get rid of a fellow fan who actually sees the missteps as they're happening?
but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
Fields was traded by the team thar drafted him, Jones was reupped at $160M. Pay no attention to Cowturd, he's just trying to stir shit up.
All that tells me is that the Steelers are a more well-run organization than the Giants. And the results on the field bear that out as well.
Nevermind, brain fart on my end with Fields going TO the Steelers instead of FROM the Steelers.
Still, I'm not sure you can validate Jones by the decisions of a front office that may have simply made a massive mistake (which we've seen no shortage of from them over the past decade).
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
75 TDs, 40 INTs. Find my a benched QB with that ratio. I'll wait.... oh and for fun, make sure that benched QB has a playoff win.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Fields was traded by the team thar drafted him, Jones was reupped at $160M. Pay no attention to Cowturd, he's just trying to stir shit up.
Or hedging in case Jones is good this year.
He's killed Jones in the past. And basically suggested he's one of the worst QBs in the league.
Cowherd can backpedal with the best of them.
Total phony.
You guys do this shit all the time where you ignore context. I don’t remember fields having the best season of his life coupled with a playoff winning season. Fiends didn’t fucking do that so geee u think they played a part in the bears dealing him this offseason as also, for fucks sake doesn’t it matter just a little little bit that the bears were picking first in a draft that housed a can’t miss borderline transcendent qb talent that they were more than happy to pick???? Or no, context matters not in the land of the argumentative. Just say he Audis and 6 years and offer up nothing more the same tired critiques and blame game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
75 TDs, 40 INTs. Find my a benched QB with that ratio. I'll wait.... oh and for fun, make sure that benched QB has a playoff win.
Just so we're clear, you're adding the rushing TDs to his passing TDs and using that as the ratio vs. interceptions (can you throw an interception on a rushing TD?), but NOT including fumbles? Did I interpret that correctly?
Jones continues to get ripped in the press because he's still a starting QB in a major media market. Its an opinion that most other QBs wouldve been on their 2nd or 3rd team by now, but its not hard to support.
I will also add that when it comes to overall football acumen GT is among the best BBI has. He's also a fatalistic realist, has an encyclopedic knowledge of the last decades failures, and is (rightfully, imo) critical of ownership. That ruffles feathers. Additionally hes got a bit of a stubborn streak and has no problem going back and forth with the mob. That means at certain times of the year, for instance in camp when we see a surge of hope with the dawning of a new season, he typically ends up in a lot of arguments that he's typically right about.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Its not as far off as you think
Dave Brown was 26-34 as a starter with 10445 pass yds and 44 pass TDs
Daniel Jones is 22-37-1 as a starter with 12500 pass yds and 62 TDs
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Its not as far off as you think
Dave Brown was 26-34 as a starter with 10445 pass yds and 44 pass TDs
Daniel Jones is 22-37-1 as a starter with 12500 pass yds and 62 TDs
Fields was traded by the team thar drafted him, Jones was reupped at $160M. Pay no attention to Cowturd, he's just trying to stir shit up.
All that tells me is that the Steelers are a more well-run organization than the Giants. And the results on the field bear that out as well.
Nevermind, brain fart on my end with Fields going TO the Steelers instead of FROM the Steelers.
Still, I'm not sure you can validate Jones by the decisions of a front office that may have simply made a massive mistake (which we've seen no shortage of from them over the past decade).
Didn’t mean to validate Jones at all. My point was that there is no comparison to how Jones has been treated v Fields, although I probably didn’t make that clear enough.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
Simply not true. I don't want the Giants making the playoffs. I told everyone the Giants would miss Tyrod Taylor and there would be no way in hell the Giants would sniff a post-season game without TT. I don't know about you, but I would much rather be right than the Giants be successful.
No one has gotten more mileage out of a playoff win than Daniel Jones.
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
By the end of this season there will be wide receivers making $40 mil per year...
He takes up 20% of their salary cap. His production needs to justify taking up that large of the teams cap. It has not come close to that yet in 5 seasons.
How is that debatable at this point?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
There have been 3-4 posters this week who openly admitted they wanted the Giants to suck. You know who has to stop? You’re shitty act during practice threads. You’re an embarrassment.
I don't know how anyone can anyone listen to Cowherd and take
I'm sick of watching the Giants play boring, terrible, embarrassing football year after year, week after week. I hope Daniel Jones shocks the NFL world and throws for over 4000 yards and 30 TDs and wins double digit games in 2024 and the Giants make the playoffs.
Because I think if Daniel Jones stays healthy he is going to be the Giants #1 QB in 2024 until the risk of his injury guarantee kicking in is greater than the Giants chances of fulfilling the Mara decree of playing meaningful games in December.
Someone convince me I'm wrong and that the Giants will pull the plug on Jones if he s**ts the bed again early in the season and give either Lock or DeVito a chance before another season, GM and HC crash and burn.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There have been 3-4 posters this week who openly admitted they wanted the Giants to suck. You know who has to stop? You’re shitty act during practice threads. You’re an embarrassment.
I'll say it, I'd rather they suck than win 7 games.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
There have been 3-4 posters this week who openly admitted they wanted the Giants to suck. You know who has to stop? You’re shitty act during practice threads. You’re an embarrassment.
Judging by how other posters treat you on this site, the only one between us who should be embarrassed is you.
I’ve never seen anyone care what you think and you got blasted nearly every post and be called a troll. Sounds about right.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Its not as far off as you think
Dave Brown was 26-34 as a starter with 10445 pass yds and 44 pass TDs
Daniel Jones is 22-37-1 as a starter with 12500 pass yds and 62 TDs
In a much less friendly QB era too…
Exactly right SF. The winning percentage is what matters since stats from these two eras are not comparable. The Giants performed slightly better as a team with Dave Brown at quarterback than they have with DJ. But DJ has won five games against teams with winning records, whereas Dave Brown only won four. Both are pitiful displays of performance for quarterbacks with fifty or more starts, but DJ is slightly better. So for all intents and purposes, as it relates to winning in the NFL, they are exactly the same guy.
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
When did being a fan that is rightfully critical of this team become "complaining"?
I see this brought up with Jones constantly and now with Neal/ JMS in regards to Schoen... "the draft is a crapshoot, he was a highly rated prospect, can't blame Schoen for that".
We aren't criticizing a team with Josh Allen and wins the division every year. This team has been mostly terrible for awhile now. It's okay to be critical.
I’ve never seen anyone care what you think and you got blasted nearly every post and be called a troll. Sounds about right.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
Why? Because I was hoping to see a win from KT on Sewell from the one clip on X I opened? Maybe you missed my next post where upon reading he beat him for a sack i said something positive. Jesus, you really are a fucking loser…
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
I disagree. I don't think Jones is responsible at all for the bashing, simply because bashing is not necessary and is quite different than complaining or wanting a different player at the position. Jones has not done anything to deserve any 'bashing'. He has not played well enough for most of us and I think that most of us would rather move on.
I’ve never seen anyone care what you think and you got blasted nearly every post and be called a troll. Sounds about right.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
Why? Because I was hoping to see a win from KT on Sewell from the one clip on X I opened? Maybe you missed my next post where upon reading he beat him for a sack i said something positive. Jesus, you really are a fucking loser…
Someone’s triggered.
I’m glad Thibs isn’t a bust anymore cause he lost a 1 on 1 to an all pro.
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
I disagree. I don't think Jones is responsible at all for the bashing, simply because bashing is not necessary and is quite different than complaining or wanting a different player at the position. Jones has not done anything to deserve any 'bashing'. He has not played well enough for most of us and I think that most of us would rather move on.
Well when athletes play bad they hear about it so I don’t know what to tell you.
If he doesn’t want people to bash him, play better.
I’ve never seen anyone care what you think and you got blasted nearly every post and be called a troll. Sounds about right.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
Why? Because I was hoping to see a win from KT on Sewell from the one clip on X I opened? Maybe you missed my next post where upon reading he beat him for a sack i said something positive. Jesus, you really are a fucking loser…
Someone’s triggered.
I’m glad Thibs isn’t a bust anymore cause he lost a 1 on 1 to an all pro.
Not really triggered. Also not interested in getting into it further with one of BBI’s court jesters…
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
I disagree. I don't think Jones is responsible at all for the bashing, simply because bashing is not necessary and is quite different than complaining or wanting a different player at the position. Jones has not done anything to deserve any 'bashing'. He has not played well enough for most of us and I think that most of us would rather move on.
Well when athletes play bad they hear about it so I don’t know what to tell you.
If he doesn’t want people to bash him, play better.
Yes, I know that. I didn't say it does not happen. I am saying it is not necessary and Jones is not responsible for fans bashing him, those fans are responsible for that. Bashing players to me is personal.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
You have absolutely zero grasp of what the problem is I see. Amazing that one can be quite so oblivious.
Cannot believe that you think this is a remotely sensible response.
Terps, you only have one thought in your head about this team. It needs some company, it is lonely in there.
The problem isn't that nobody else cares about winning. The problem isn't that anyone thinks your wrong or don't make valid points. The problem is you are one of those old pull string dolls on this board.
Anyway, I'm done on this. This is why I barely post anymore and rarely read past the first few posts. Every thread becomes an intolerably mind numbing slog of repetition around here. Not just you Terps, not just you.
but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
Eric said yesterday one of the Bs in BBI stands for bitching.
And at least Terps bitches about the team, instead of the half dozen or so who simply post to bitch about Terps.
but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
I don't think that's crazy. I think it's a fair view, and I was sincere when I asked what you thought "very good" would mean, so I appreciate you putting some numbers against it.
I've posted on about 10 football threads in the past week. There are probably four times that many I haven't opened. If you want to go talk about the uniform schedule, Boogie Basham, Corbin being waived, or any other of a host of non-ownership/front office/Jones topics, those threads are there. Judging by the reader and poster count, no one cares.
If it weren't for discussions on how this team is run and how that impacts the QB, this board would have a fraction of the discussion.
There isn't much to discuss with this team that's relevant to wins and losses beyond those key topics.
You want to go talk about who the starting defensive linemen will be next to Lawrence, or who the punt returner will be, go ahead. See how many people care. I think many of us realize it's deck chairs on the Titanic.
RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
That's not really true, but certain myopic dipshits can't see anything else, their grudges and hatreds consume them. Be nice if they just disappeared. Again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The endurance of the pro and anti DJ camps
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
You don't Jones wins, you go stomp off in a huff like Rumpelstiltskin. Any chance he lights it up this year we get a repeat performance from you, or will you linger about like some dark spirit telling us all it's because his WRs are great and not Jones?
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
" poor Danie". In quotes. Quotes. OK smartass, I defy you to find me a single post where anyone who called him "poor Daniel" besides his detractors. Some of you just make shit up. Plenty of us think he's a mediocre QB who could go either way on any given Sunday, with enough brains to figure out if the rest of the team has a good day, it's more likely than not he will as well. I've seen him lose games when everyone else is playing well, and win games when no one else showed up but hi. You can tell me I haven't seen it, but the thing is, I have, and more than once. I'm indifferent as to whether or not they get as new QB. wouldn't have cared a bit if they had drafted one. Fine. They didn't. They can next year, that's fine too. But making shit up, putting words in people mouths that were never said to make a point maybe means you're full of shit?
at least one poster commented about all that Jones has been through. Sympathy oozing off the screen. Like Jones was Evan Gershkovich returning from a Russian prison.
RE: Daniel Jones and Trevor Lawrence are comparable
Look at won loss, completion percentage and most QBs.
Personally I find Cowberd entertaining. He takes contrarian positions. Sometimes he makes a unique, value added observation. Sometimes he take ridiculous takes.
The DJ Haters Society versus the DJ Fan Club discussions are so tiresome. Almost any Giants thread, not just QB thread or Jones thread gets run by the same guys taking the same takes over and over and over and over …
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Per some, Jones needs All Pros @ EVERY position to succeed. I kid, but there's some truth to that thought among the Jones diehards.
Forget that for a second he's making $35.5 million this season. And was drafted sixth overall. Call me loco, but shouldn't it be incumbent upon him to elevate others?
Don’t stop posting cause of a few posters. Always enjoyed your contributions.
thanks JT.
I'm not going to stop. I just don't post often anymore. The conversations around here just tend to be tiresome and pointless. So I just check up on happenings. Everyone is frustrated with this team, myself included, so it tends to drag stuff down. I'm sure it'll get better when the team is better.
New season, new chance for optimism. I'm looking forward to it.
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
agreed
We need better QB play. But whoever is the QB will need better OL play
Go out and produce. No more fucking excuses. Prove everybody wrong: media, fans, and players throughout league.
4000 yards, 25-30 tds, 10-12 INT’s and 9-10 wins.
Thats not asking for a lot, is it?
Exactly. I cannot recall a guy this lackluster getting this long a leash and scholarship because he looks and acts like a qb out of central casting and the owner looks at him like a son. Go and produce and stop clinging to the excuses.
Curious whether the guy in Seattle was right that they promised Lock a chance as the starter. If so, Lock got sold a bill of goods.
but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
From your lips . . .
Nabers is going to be double teamed and there will be combo zones and other tactics thrown at him. Can the QB make the right read or make defenses pay by going elsewhere with the ball? History says Jones will hang on to the ball because he can't figure out who is open where or will need to see the receiver wide open before he throws or dump it off quickly short and the line will be blamed for not giving him the 10 seconds he needs to study, but maybe the light will come on.
The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
" poor Danie". In quotes. Quotes. OK smartass, I defy you to find me a single post where anyone who called him "poor Daniel" besides his detractors. Some of you just make shit up. Plenty of us think he's a mediocre QB who could go either way on any given Sunday, with enough brains to figure out if the rest of the team has a good day, it's more likely than not he will as well. I've seen him lose games when everyone else is playing well, and win games when no one else showed up but hi. You can tell me I haven't seen it, but the thing is, I have, and more than once. I'm indifferent as to whether or not they get as new QB. wouldn't have cared a bit if they had drafted one. Fine. They didn't. They can next year, that's fine too. But making shit up, putting words in people mouths that were never said to make a point maybe means you're full of shit?
I don’t think you understand how quotation marks work, smart ass.
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Agreed. Criticism of Jones is wrong because he won a playoff game and is better than Wilson, Pickett, and Fields? That is an unacceptably low bar.
Jones is going into his sixth season. I hope he has some major career year, but he's most likely a journeyman backup. He also has an extensive injury history. Hard Knocks showed that the Giants desperately tried to trade up to get Maye, which by itself proves the FO doesn't think Jones is the future QB of the Giants. They're simply stuck with him for another year.
This is exactly what Schoen and Dabs are saying to him. They tried to trade up to draft their guy. It did not happen. Next year there will be a new starting QB on this team. Maybe sooner.
Keep your eye out for this. I don't think the Steelers will be able to make both QBs happy over there. I would not be surprised if their is a deal done. After this season, Kirk Cousins will be available.
at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
RE: RE: at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
RE: at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
Let's say for the sake of argument that's true.
Why couldn't you make the same case for a QB on a rookie contract instead of a 6-year veteran who counts $47 million against the 2024 cap?
If you only "need" a decent QB, shouldn't the idea be to have a decent QB at significant cost savings that could be spent building other areas of the roster?
And I promise you that if Jones is adequate (however a person defines that term) and the Giants win 7-8 games, Jones will 100% be the starting QB in 2025, with no legitimate competition.
RE: RE: RE: at least the goalpost has shifted in a positive direction
the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
Bitch and complain that this team sucks for over a decade. And if (notice the word if) the team goes 10-7, makes the playoffs - now it’s pretty sad?
The context of that 10-7 note above was not that a 10-7 season alone would be sad. It's that a 10-7 season representing some massive redemption is sad, because it's not THAT momentous of an accomplishment, unless it's accompanied by something bigger (like the 2011 championship from a 9-7 team). Otherwise, 10-7 is the sort of season that a pretender can occasionally cobble together with a little bit of luck.
Bad teams (and bad QBs) can produce outlier seasons where they finish 10-7 and in the playoffs; that doesn't make them good teams. Blake Bortles reached the AFC Championship. Tim Tebow won a playoff game. We know that neither of those QBs were any good. Imagine the fans who were pointing to those seasons as proof that they were legitimate franchise QBs? We'd laugh at them.
I think what people are saying is that it's sad that anyone is considering 10-7 a redemption-worthy outcome. Maybe that bar should be a little bit higher if the argument is that it's going to prove all the haters wrong.
The poster said if we go 10-7 this season - and was responded with “well that’s pretty sad”.
I think it will be a huge step forward. But I guess bitching is the theme of the summer here.
Let's make this simple.
Here's the first line that mentions 10-7:
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The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
And here's the response:
Quote:
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
I know you just want to argue about it, but it's obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills that the response was clearly in the context of the "give em' [sic] Hell [sic] Danny Boy" line.
What a fucking bore you are. Just another stain on this site that makes it miserable for people to read threads.
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
Still trying to make fetch happen, eh dep? Your Boggle joke is as lame as you are.
I know it's frustrating for you to go up against me because I'm just so far above your intellectual capacity, but no one is making you do it. You choose to embarrass yourself on your own.
Your next original thought on this site will be your first.
A true MMQB warrior who only comes to this site to insult others because he’s been a major disappointment in life. Seriously think about this. You come to an anonymous site to get your rocks off by insulting others.
About as pathetic as it comes.
And we both know my boggles comments are funny since you definitely play in tournaments and get smashed in them… hahaha.
Shit…. Then what was it when we went 9-7 in 2011???
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
So a good season?
If the crowd that's optimistic about Jones could muster the simple phrase "I believe Daniel Jones can win a championship with the Giants" -- I think crowd that's pessimistic would disagree, but at least respect the opinion.
If the optimistic upside is just make the playoffs, that's a pretty low bar.
The first two comments regarding the 10-7 season are quite obviously up for interpretation, at least in my eyes. One sees it one way, another sees it different.
The goal is to make the playoffs every year. Whether you’re 9-8 or 15-2.
Because once you get in - anything can happen which we have seen in every professional sport. So going 10-7 is not a low bar whatsoever and it has nothing to do with Daniel Jones either.
The goal of a current team is to make the playoffs - so going 10-7 this year, next or for the next 5 years is not pretty sad whatsoever.
So by year 5-6, a QB with a big contract should be leading his teams to a title contender? Right?
If you're super fan number one of a quarterback in year 6 of his career, you should definitely believe the guy can be a title contender.
I agree with you.
But QB is a very hard position to judge. It would be ludicrous for me to say that the Chargers should move on from Herbert right? I mean really good teams with a lot of talent, and 0 playoff wins? They’re nowhere near a title contender but we both agree he is a piece.
Now is Jones a piece? Probably not. But it’s hard to argue during the last 5 years any QB would make us a title contender maybe outside Mahomes. My point is you want to be competitive every year. So Jones making the playoffs this year is not pretty sad. Nor would it have been any year he was our QB.
Seems like we are doing better evaluating talent and getting rid of the fat we don’t need. It’s not blasphemy to say Jones can be a playoff QB and we can still look to improve on him.
A 10-7 season wouldn't be a surprise to me. I am expecting that a a minimum, provided major injuries are avoided. I called it a surprise in the sense that it will suprise the "experts" who have already predicted to Giants to finish last in the Division. Look at Vegas for crying out loud. The over under is 6.5 wins. All things break well, I think this team could even make it to 11 or 12 wins.
JT, I think with a very good offensive coach an outstanding young receiving group, plus a defensive that is full of young promising players, a Herbert/Giants team would be a Super Bowl favorite.
JT, I think with a very good offensive coach an outstanding young receiving group, plus a defensive that is full of young promising players, a Herbert/Giants team would be a Super Bowl favorite.
I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
Three.
And DJ's had the worst OL and receivers combination in the league. That affects a QB's production. I've watched tons of Herbert because I like watching him play. His WRs are much better than anything DJ's had. Josh Palmer (his #3) is better than DJ's WR1 (Slayton). Keenan Allen in particular is the most underrated WR in the league IMO.
The Giants Oline has been awful and his receivers have not shown they are consistent contributors. But it is also true that you can have a bad QB behind a bad with bad receivers. It is disingenuous to pretend that there have not been plenty of instances where guys have been open, and he has had time, where he has not gotten it done.
This team sucking is a meal prepared by a bunch of terrible cooks. Jones is just one of the reasons this team is bad. Having a bad line and weak receivers does not absolve him for his poor play.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
Daniel Jones was signed to a $40M/yr contract extension as is the unquestioned starter on his team going into his 6th year.
Their success as NFL QBs is comparable, but their situations are completely different.
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Let me guess, he used an absolute reach of an analogy to make his point too?
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
Right. This is true too. I think Jones is a piñata though more than others.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Cowherd and his ilk take contrarian points to drive viewers/listeners. Saying Jones is unfairly criticized is a contrarian point of view outside the Giants fan base.
Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
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Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
Quote:
Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Let me guess, he used an absolute reach of an analogy to make his point too?
I see you're familiar with his work.
In case anyone was curious, the combined 2025 cap hits for the three QBs old Colin used in his comparison:
$7.942 million
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In comment 16569581 rsjem1979 said:
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Daniel Jones is better than Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett and Justin Fields - all of whom are now on their 2nd NFL team, unlikely to start, and do not carry a $47 million cap hit in 2025.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Let me guess, he used an absolute reach of an analogy to make his point too?
I see you're familiar with his work.
In case anyone was curious, the combined 2025 cap hits for the three QBs old Colin used in his comparison:
$7.942 million
2024 cap hits
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In comment 16569585 Go Terps said:
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Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
I don't think there are many here that will argue with you about Jones having been good. He hasn't been. But you tend to talk about nothing else and it is exhausting because it takes over every conversation. Making conversation here annoying at best and impossible at worst. So find a new topic, we all already know how you feel on this one. Your continued antics only force more people to defend Jones.
Now maybe you like your schtick and it is just a big game to you. But it drags down all conversation on this board.
We get it, Jones is bad, you think Jones is bad. Can you just stop talking about him at all at this point? The only thing worse than the last several years of Giants football is people like you making the entire conversation about the team about one player. So we can't really enjoy the games much and people like you have made it unenjoyable to even talk about the team. Just stop it, it's old, it's tired, it's overdone and it's annoying. I'll stipulate that you are right....now move on please. Nothing you say here will change what the Giants do with Daniel Jones.
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
X infinity.
I find the sympathy card played on this board for Jones beyond annoying. Someone wrote yesterday we should admire Jones for how much he has been through since he's been here. I wanted to remind the poster that it's not like Jones is jumping out of a Higgins boat to fight on Omaha Beach.
He's a lottery draft choice on a big second contract that his team out-negotiated Schoen on beautifully.
Just more proof how low expectations continue to be around here for poor Daniel Jones.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
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In comment 16569591 section125 said:
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In comment 16569585 Go Terps said:
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Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
Well just going by the chart you posted, they aren't. Not far off, but Jones is clearly the best of the three even if the margin of difference isn't large.
I don't think there are many here that will argue with you about Jones having been good. He hasn't been. But you tend to talk about nothing else and it is exhausting because it takes over every conversation. Making conversation here annoying at best and impossible at worst. So find a new topic, we all already know how you feel on this one. Your continued antics only force more people to defend Jones.
Now maybe you like your schtick and it is just a big game to you. But it drags down all conversation on this board.
We get it, Jones is bad, you think Jones is bad. Can you just stop talking about him at all at this point? The only thing worse than the last several years of Giants football is people like you making the entire conversation about the team about one player. So we can't really enjoy the games much and people like you have made it unenjoyable to even talk about the team. Just stop it, it's old, it's tired, it's overdone and it's annoying. I'll stipulate that you are right....now move on please. Nothing you say here will change what the Giants do with Daniel Jones.
Your interpretation of the numbers is interesting.
Also, the thread is about Jones, and I didn't start it.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
Ask not what Daniel Jones can do for NYG, but what NYG can do for Daniel Jones... ;)
I do agree the table is set for Jones to succeed if the WRs continue to evolve and OL is the right mix of players.
Which brings me back to expectations. If you believe in the aforementioned, it's time - once again - for Jones to deliver.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
You mean the "Is Nabers a bust?" refrain.
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In comment 16569573 Go Terps said:
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
And yet neither has ever played behind a line as bad as Jones, especially last year, or with receivers as bad as Jones, much less both. I wish someone would point out the QB who would be top 10 in his situation. Mahomes stunk in the SB against the Bucs when two of his starting OL were out, yet the guys playing in front of him still had more experience than the guys the Giants were playing for games 2 thru 10 last year.
Jones ain't a star. But he gets blamed for a whole lot that he can't control.
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is remarkable.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
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In comment 16569575 Vinny from Danbury said:
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In comment 16569573 Go Terps said:
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
And yet neither has ever played behind a line as bad as Jones, especially last year, or with receivers as bad as Jones, much less both. I wish someone would point out the QB who would be top 10 in his situation. Mahomes stunk in the SB against the Bucs when two of his starting OL were out, yet the guys playing in front of him still had more experience than the guys the Giants were playing for games 2 thru 10 last year.
Jones ain't a star. But he gets blamed for a whole lot that he can't control.
Well it looks like the OL is going to be a problem again, so the 2024 excuse will be locked and loaded to bring Jones back in 2025.
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In comment 16569618 UConn4523 said:
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is remarkable.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
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In comment 16569593 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569591 section125 said:
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In comment 16569585 Go Terps said:
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Trubisky - Never has a QB been so overrated.
Darnold - well he sucked from the get go.
I agree, they both stink. And they're as good as Jones.
Well just going by the chart you posted, they aren't. Not far off, but Jones is clearly the best of the three even if the margin of difference isn't large.
I don't think there are many here that will argue with you about Jones having been good. He hasn't been. But you tend to talk about nothing else and it is exhausting because it takes over every conversation. Making conversation here annoying at best and impossible at worst. So find a new topic, we all already know how you feel on this one. Your continued antics only force more people to defend Jones.
Now maybe you like your schtick and it is just a big game to you. But it drags down all conversation on this board.
We get it, Jones is bad, you think Jones is bad. Can you just stop talking about him at all at this point? The only thing worse than the last several years of Giants football is people like you making the entire conversation about the team about one player. So we can't really enjoy the games much and people like you have made it unenjoyable to even talk about the team. Just stop it, it's old, it's tired, it's overdone and it's annoying. I'll stipulate that you are right....now move on please. Nothing you say here will change what the Giants do with Daniel Jones.
Your interpretation of the numbers is interesting.
Also, the thread is about Jones, and I didn't start it.
This thread it is fine, which is why I addressed it in this thread. I'm talking about all the others. Just move on man and I don't disagree with you on Jones, just tired of it. We have less redundant conversations with Halloween decorations at the hallmark store.
Press the button to see what GoTerps says next!
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In comment 16569573 Go Terps said:
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
But it's the truth. The closest QBs you'll find to Jones statistically are Trubisky and Darnold, and they are each on their fourth team.
Maybe Darnold shouldn't be, Trubinsky tho is just terrible
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In comment 16569635 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569618 UConn4523 said:
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is remarkable.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
They went places... Tommy's Tavern & Tap!
It is so nauseating that people coddle Jones like an infant. And it starts at the top of the organization.
The reality for the NFL is there are two ways to win. Elite QB, or elite team around good enough QB. Jones will never be an elite option, but he can be “good enough”. I don’t see too much of a difference between DJ and guys like Goff and Purdy, who played for an NFC title last year.
Even going back over the years - look at some of the guys who have won divisions and/or made the playoffs in the NFC. Case Keenum, Nick Foles, Geno Smith, Trubisky…
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
Prescription-strength copium in the form of denial, huh? If Terps isn't here to remind you that DJ is a liability, DJ will magically cease to actually BE a liability?
Why not wish for the actual problems of the Giants to disappear instead of trying to get rid of a fellow fan who actually sees the missteps as they're happening?
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
All that tells me is that the Steelers are a more well-run organization than the Giants. And the results on the field bear that out as well.
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Fields was traded by the team thar drafted him, Jones was reupped at $160M. Pay no attention to Cowturd, he's just trying to stir shit up.
All that tells me is that the Steelers are a more well-run organization than the Giants. And the results on the field bear that out as well.
Nevermind, brain fart on my end with Fields going TO the Steelers instead of FROM the Steelers.
Still, I'm not sure you can validate Jones by the decisions of a front office that may have simply made a massive mistake (which we've seen no shortage of from them over the past decade).
Or hedging in case Jones is good this year.
He's killed Jones in the past. And basically suggested he's one of the worst QBs in the league.
Cowherd can backpedal with the best of them.
Total phony.
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
75 TDs, 40 INTs. Find my a benched QB with that ratio. I'll wait.... oh and for fun, make sure that benched QB has a playoff win.
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
By the end of this season there will be wide receivers making $40 mil per year...
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
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Fields was traded by the team thar drafted him, Jones was reupped at $160M. Pay no attention to Cowturd, he's just trying to stir shit up.
Or hedging in case Jones is good this year.
He's killed Jones in the past. And basically suggested he's one of the worst QBs in the league.
Cowherd can backpedal with the best of them.
Total phony.
You guys do this shit all the time where you ignore context. I don’t remember fields having the best season of his life coupled with a playoff winning season. Fiends didn’t fucking do that so geee u think they played a part in the bears dealing him this offseason as also, for fucks sake doesn’t it matter just a little little bit that the bears were picking first in a draft that housed a can’t miss borderline transcendent qb talent that they were more than happy to pick???? Or no, context matters not in the land of the argumentative. Just say he Audis and 6 years and offer up nothing more the same tired critiques and blame game.
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In comment 16569635 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569618 UConn4523 said:
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is remarkable.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
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In comment 16569573 Go Terps said:
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
I honestly cannot wait for you to disappear from this forum in 2024 like you did in 2022.
75 TDs, 40 INTs. Find my a benched QB with that ratio. I'll wait.... oh and for fun, make sure that benched QB has a playoff win.
Just so we're clear, you're adding the rushing TDs to his passing TDs and using that as the ratio vs. interceptions (can you throw an interception on a rushing TD?), but NOT including fumbles? Did I interpret that correctly?
What purpose do you serve here?
Daniel Jones was signed to a $40M/yr contract extension as is the unquestioned starter on his team going into his 6th year.
Their success as NFL QBs is comparable, but their situations are completely different.
Daniel Jones and Trevor Lawrence are comparable.
Justin Fields hasn't won anything in the pros.
I will also add that when it comes to overall football acumen GT is among the best BBI has. He's also a fatalistic realist, has an encyclopedic knowledge of the last decades failures, and is (rightfully, imo) critical of ownership. That ruffles feathers. Additionally hes got a bit of a stubborn streak and has no problem going back and forth with the mob. That means at certain times of the year, for instance in camp when we see a surge of hope with the dawning of a new season, he typically ends up in a lot of arguments that he's typically right about.
Fantastic contribution, dep. So glad you're back.
He beat the #1 ranked D- Steelers with a 315 yd rushing 2TD and 50 yds rushing 1 TD performance. So 365 total yds and 3 TDs
4000 yards, 25-30 tds, 10-12 INT’s and 9-10 wins.
Thats not asking for a lot, is it?
4000 yards, 25-30 tds, 10-12 INT’s and 9-10 wins.
Thats not asking for a lot, is it?
Just so there is no ambiguity here: 25-30 PASSING TD’s…
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Its not as far off as you think
Dave Brown was 26-34 as a starter with 10445 pass yds and 44 pass TDs
Daniel Jones is 22-37-1 as a starter with 12500 pass yds and 62 TDs
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…
Fantastic contribution, dep. So glad you're back.
How was your boggle tournament? Heard you struggled. Better luck next time chump, I mean champ.
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In comment 16569573 Go Terps said:
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Its not as far off as you think
Dave Brown was 26-34 as a starter with 10445 pass yds and 44 pass TDs
Daniel Jones is 22-37-1 as a starter with 12500 pass yds and 62 TDs
In a much less friendly QB era too…
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In comment 16569755 JT039 said:
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…
Fantastic contribution, dep. So glad you're back.
How was your boggle tournament? Heard you struggled. Better luck next time chump, I mean champ.
Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
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In comment 16569673 Section331 said:
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Fields was traded by the team thar drafted him, Jones was reupped at $160M. Pay no attention to Cowturd, he's just trying to stir shit up.
All that tells me is that the Steelers are a more well-run organization than the Giants. And the results on the field bear that out as well.
Nevermind, brain fart on my end with Fields going TO the Steelers instead of FROM the Steelers.
Still, I'm not sure you can validate Jones by the decisions of a front office that may have simply made a massive mistake (which we've seen no shortage of from them over the past decade).
Didn’t mean to validate Jones at all. My point was that there is no comparison to how Jones has been treated v Fields, although I probably didn’t make that clear enough.
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
He's the Giants QB this season.
Nobody is saying anything new.
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In comment 16569717 UberAlias said:
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
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In comment 16569784 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569717 UberAlias said:
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
Simply not true. I don't want the Giants making the playoffs. I told everyone the Giants would miss Tyrod Taylor and there would be no way in hell the Giants would sniff a post-season game without TT. I don't know about you, but I would much rather be right than the Giants be successful.
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No one has gotten more mileage out of a playoff win than Daniel Jones.
But he's in his 6th season and making 40 million a year. Sympathy or empathy goes out the window with that.
By the end of this season there will be wide receivers making $40 mil per year...
He takes up 20% of their salary cap. His production needs to justify taking up that large of the teams cap. It has not come close to that yet in 5 seasons.
How is that debatable at this point?
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In comment 16569784 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569717 UberAlias said:
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
There have been 3-4 posters this week who openly admitted they wanted the Giants to suck. You know who has to stop? You’re shitty act during practice threads. You’re an embarrassment.
I'm sick of watching the Giants play boring, terrible, embarrassing football year after year, week after week. I hope Daniel Jones shocks the NFL world and throws for over 4000 yards and 30 TDs and wins double digit games in 2024 and the Giants make the playoffs.
Because I think if Daniel Jones stays healthy he is going to be the Giants #1 QB in 2024 until the risk of his injury guarantee kicking in is greater than the Giants chances of fulfilling the Mara decree of playing meaningful games in December.
Someone convince me I'm wrong and that the Giants will pull the plug on Jones if he s**ts the bed again early in the season and give either Lock or DeVito a chance before another season, GM and HC crash and burn.
There have been 3-4 posters this week who openly admitted they wanted the Giants to suck. You know who has to stop? You’re shitty act during practice threads. You’re an embarrassment.
I'll say it, I'd rather they suck than win 7 games.
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In comment 16569790 JT039 said:
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In comment 16569784 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569717 UberAlias said:
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
And there are some who only care about being right and admitted they don’t want the Giants to make the playoffs with Jones. Know any of them?
There is nobody on this site who doesn’t want the NYG to make the playoffs. Stop.
There have been 3-4 posters this week who openly admitted they wanted the Giants to suck. You know who has to stop? You’re shitty act during practice threads. You’re an embarrassment.
Judging by how other posters treat you on this site, the only one between us who should be embarrassed is you.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
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In comment 16569700 djm said:
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In comment 16569573 Go Terps said:
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That's because no QB as bad as Jones gets as many opportunities to get ripped as he does. Players of Jones's quality are on their fourth team as backups.
You’re basing this off fans and media. Both are wrong quite often. Also, even if jones is THAT bad it’s been the most overstated over analyzed qb situation going. It’s bullshit and you suck it up and regurgitate it daily.
Anyone saying jones is worse than Dave brown needs to reevaluate things.
Its not as far off as you think
Dave Brown was 26-34 as a starter with 10445 pass yds and 44 pass TDs
Daniel Jones is 22-37-1 as a starter with 12500 pass yds and 62 TDs
In a much less friendly QB era too…
Exactly right SF. The winning percentage is what matters since stats from these two eras are not comparable. The Giants performed slightly better as a team with Dave Brown at quarterback than they have with DJ. But DJ has won five games against teams with winning records, whereas Dave Brown only won four. Both are pitiful displays of performance for quarterbacks with fifty or more starts, but DJ is slightly better. So for all intents and purposes, as it relates to winning in the NFL, they are exactly the same guy.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
"I call to order this meeting of the he-man Daniel Jones haters club."
I see this brought up with Jones constantly and now with Neal/ JMS in regards to Schoen... "the draft is a crapshoot, he was a highly rated prospect, can't blame Schoen for that".
We aren't criticizing a team with Josh Allen and wins the division every year. This team has been mostly terrible for awhile now. It's okay to be critical.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
Why? Because I was hoping to see a win from KT on Sewell from the one clip on X I opened? Maybe you missed my next post where upon reading he beat him for a sack i said something positive. Jesus, you really are a fucking loser…
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
I disagree. I don't think Jones is responsible at all for the bashing, simply because bashing is not necessary and is quite different than complaining or wanting a different player at the position. Jones has not done anything to deserve any 'bashing'. He has not played well enough for most of us and I think that most of us would rather move on.
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I’ve never seen anyone care what you think and you got blasted nearly every post and be called a troll. Sounds about right.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
Why? Because I was hoping to see a win from KT on Sewell from the one clip on X I opened? Maybe you missed my next post where upon reading he beat him for a sack i said something positive. Jesus, you really are a fucking loser…
Someone’s triggered.
I’m glad Thibs isn’t a bust anymore cause he lost a 1 on 1 to an all pro.
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The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
I disagree. I don't think Jones is responsible at all for the bashing, simply because bashing is not necessary and is quite different than complaining or wanting a different player at the position. Jones has not done anything to deserve any 'bashing'. He has not played well enough for most of us and I think that most of us would rather move on.
Well when athletes play bad they hear about it so I don’t know what to tell you.
If he doesn’t want people to bash him, play better.
Links and screen shots are being collated to exact revenge. Get out the Kevlar.
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In comment 16569816 JT039 said:
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I’ve never seen anyone care what you think and you got blasted nearly every post and be called a troll. Sounds about right.
The grumpy old men who just come her to complain and pat themselves on the back just need some more counseling. You can join them if you want. You’ll fit in perfectly.
Why? Because I was hoping to see a win from KT on Sewell from the one clip on X I opened? Maybe you missed my next post where upon reading he beat him for a sack i said something positive. Jesus, you really are a fucking loser…
Someone’s triggered.
I’m glad Thibs isn’t a bust anymore cause he lost a 1 on 1 to an all pro.
Not really triggered. Also not interested in getting into it further with one of BBI’s court jesters…
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In comment 16569819 ajr2456 said:
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The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
I disagree. I don't think Jones is responsible at all for the bashing, simply because bashing is not necessary and is quite different than complaining or wanting a different player at the position. Jones has not done anything to deserve any 'bashing'. He has not played well enough for most of us and I think that most of us would rather move on.
Well when athletes play bad they hear about it so I don’t know what to tell you.
If he doesn’t want people to bash him, play better.
Yes, I know that. I didn't say it does not happen. I am saying it is not necessary and Jones is not responsible for fans bashing him, those fans are responsible for that. Bashing players to me is personal.
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
Cannot believe that you think this is a remotely sensible response.
Terps, you only have one thought in your head about this team. It needs some company, it is lonely in there.
The problem isn't that nobody else cares about winning. The problem isn't that anyone thinks your wrong or don't make valid points. The problem is you are one of those old pull string dolls on this board.
Anyway, I'm done on this. This is why I barely post anymore and rarely read past the first few posts. Every thread becomes an intolerably mind numbing slog of repetition around here. Not just you Terps, not just you.
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but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
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In comment 16569646 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 16569635 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16569618 UConn4523 said:
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is remarkable.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
Yeah that’s why I don’t, it’s a boring conversation now. As an outsider looking in, reading these posts is hilarious. Just a complete waste of time and I’m convinced those that still take part just do it to piss the other side off.
This is a boring organization going nowhere. The situation really stinks.
Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
Eric said yesterday one of the Bs in BBI stands for bitching.
And at least Terps bitches about the team, instead of the half dozen or so who simply post to bitch about Terps.
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In comment 16569611 Csonka said:
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but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
I don't think that's crazy. I think it's a fair view, and I was sincere when I asked what you thought "very good" would mean, so I appreciate you putting some numbers against it.
If it weren't for discussions on how this team is run and how that impacts the QB, this board would have a fraction of the discussion.
There isn't much to discuss with this team that's relevant to wins and losses beyond those key topics.
You want to go talk about who the starting defensive linemen will be next to Lawrence, or who the punt returner will be, go ahead. See how many people care. I think many of us realize it's deck chairs on the Titanic.
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is remarkable.
There's not much else to talk about (that's going to end up mattering) besides the QB, the front office, and ownership. The rest is window dressing.
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Then quit bitching about it. Just leave.
I don't think I will. Some of us actually care about the wins and losses, you know.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
Personally I find Cowberd entertaining. He takes contrarian positions. Sometimes he makes a unique, value added observation. Sometimes he take ridiculous takes.
The DJ Haters Society versus the DJ Fan Club discussions are so tiresome. Almost any Giants thread, not just QB thread or Jones thread gets run by the same guys taking the same takes over and over and over and over …
Ugh
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Per some, Jones needs All Pros @ EVERY position to succeed. I kid, but there's some truth to that thought among the Jones diehards.
Forget that for a second he's making $35.5 million this season. And was drafted sixth overall. Call me loco, but shouldn't it be incumbent upon him to elevate others?
I'm not going to stop. I just don't post often anymore. The conversations around here just tend to be tiresome and pointless. So I just check up on happenings. Everyone is frustrated with this team, myself included, so it tends to drag stuff down. I'm sure it'll get better when the team is better.
New season, new chance for optimism. I'm looking forward to it.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
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have said that not even Mahomes could succeed behind the Giants line.
If that isn’t some class A “poor Daniel” bullshit I don’t know what is. Just because not everyone says the words doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t pervasive.
Also, I call bullshit on that statement. I think any good QB makes our line look much better and play with more confidence because they can get the ball out faster and throw their receivers open. Mahomes is the best, he’d do that more than anyone else and the whole team would look different.
Spoiler alert- Mahomes would have succeeded behind that line. Devito and Taylor succeeded behind that line to a certain extent.
I’ll be rooting for the guy but I can’t listen to any more excuses or sympathy. It’s insanity.
We need better QB play. But whoever is the QB will need better OL play
Jones needs to take advantage of him if we want to win. If Jones can’t do that, he’s not capable of being our QB.
4000 yards, 25-30 tds, 10-12 INT’s and 9-10 wins.
Thats not asking for a lot, is it?
Curious whether the guy in Seattle was right that they promised Lock a chance as the starter. If so, Lock got sold a bill of goods.
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In comment 16569611 Csonka said:
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but I still think Jones will be very good with the right players around him.
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
I have no issue with this POV, but I'm curious how you'd define "very good." Would you put some numbers (or even loose ranges) against that descriptor?
So again, a ton depends on the line. There are very few QBs who I think could do much with what we've had at WR and OL ... and Jones isn't one of them.
But if the line is league average or better, with this WR corp I think Jones puts up 30 TDs including rushing. And 4,000 yards if he plays every week.
I know. Crazy talk. But Nabers is really good. We're going to make plays.
Nabers is going to be double teamed and there will be combo zones and other tactics thrown at him. Can the QB make the right read or make defenses pay by going elsewhere with the ball? History says Jones will hang on to the ball because he can't figure out who is open where or will need to see the receiver wide open before he throws or dump it off quickly short and the line will be blamed for not giving him the 10 seconds he needs to study, but maybe the light will come on.
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The average career length for a first round QB is 2.7 years. Very few if any QBs get 6 years and $80 million (at a minimum) after averaging 208 passing yards and 1.03 TDs a game.
Jones is responsible for a lot of the bashing he gets. The “poor Daniel” stuff is embarrassing, frankly
" poor Danie". In quotes. Quotes. OK smartass, I defy you to find me a single post where anyone who called him "poor Daniel" besides his detractors. Some of you just make shit up. Plenty of us think he's a mediocre QB who could go either way on any given Sunday, with enough brains to figure out if the rest of the team has a good day, it's more likely than not he will as well. I've seen him lose games when everyone else is playing well, and win games when no one else showed up but hi. You can tell me I haven't seen it, but the thing is, I have, and more than once. I'm indifferent as to whether or not they get as new QB. wouldn't have cared a bit if they had drafted one. Fine. They didn't. They can next year, that's fine too. But making shit up, putting words in people mouths that were never said to make a point maybe means you're full of shit?
I don’t think you understand how quotation marks work, smart ass.
Typically worthless stuff from Cowherd.
Agreed. Criticism of Jones is wrong because he won a playoff game and is better than Wilson, Pickett, and Fields? That is an unacceptably low bar.
Jones is going into his sixth season. I hope he has some major career year, but he's most likely a journeyman backup. He also has an extensive injury history. Hard Knocks showed that the Giants desperately tried to trade up to get Maye, which by itself proves the FO doesn't think Jones is the future QB of the Giants. They're simply stuck with him for another year.
This is exactly what Schoen and Dabs are saying to him. They tried to trade up to draft their guy. It did not happen. Next year there will be a new starting QB on this team. Maybe sooner.
Keep your eye out for this. I don't think the Steelers will be able to make both QBs happy over there. I would not be surprised if their is a deal done. After this season, Kirk Cousins will be available.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
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the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
Let's say for the sake of argument that's true.
Why couldn't you make the same case for a QB on a rookie contract instead of a 6-year veteran who counts $47 million against the 2024 cap?
If you only "need" a decent QB, shouldn't the idea be to have a decent QB at significant cost savings that could be spent building other areas of the roster?
And I promise you that if Jones is adequate (however a person defines that term) and the Giants win 7-8 games, Jones will 100% be the starting QB in 2025, with no legitimate competition.
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In comment 16570002 The Jake said:
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the new line from the pro DJ camp seems to be that DJ is “decent” or “OK” and that teams can win with OK so long as the rest of the team is great.
well, let’s clear that bullshit up right now. DJ is not OK. he is the worst starting QB in the league. full stop.
The Hell he is. Boy, are there going to be some surprised people this season. Give em' Hell Danny Boy. The Giants are going to be the surprise of the 2024 season. 10-7 and playoffs.
Pretty sad when 10-7, barely >.500, is considered a surprisingly good season.
Well, consider the poster.
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
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Shit…. Then what was it when we went 9-7 in 2011???
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
So a good season?
The context of that 10-7 note above was not that a 10-7 season alone would be sad. It's that a 10-7 season representing some massive redemption is sad, because it's not THAT momentous of an accomplishment, unless it's accompanied by something bigger (like the 2011 championship from a 9-7 team). Otherwise, 10-7 is the sort of season that a pretender can occasionally cobble together with a little bit of luck.
Bad teams (and bad QBs) can produce outlier seasons where they finish 10-7 and in the playoffs; that doesn't make them good teams. Blake Bortles reached the AFC Championship. Tim Tebow won a playoff game. We know that neither of those QBs were any good. Imagine the fans who were pointing to those seasons as proof that they were legitimate franchise QBs? We'd laugh at them.
I think what people are saying is that it's sad that anyone is considering 10-7 a redemption-worthy outcome. Maybe that bar should be a little bit higher if the argument is that it's going to prove all the haters wrong.
I think it will be a huge step forward. But I guess bitching is the theme of the summer here.
I think it will be a huge step forward. But I guess bitching is the theme of the summer here.
Let's make this simple.
Here's the first line that mentions 10-7:
And here's the response:
I know you just want to argue about it, but it's obvious to anyone with critical thinking skills that the response was clearly in the context of the "give em' [sic] Hell [sic] Danny Boy" line.
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
It’s clear as day the poster was mocking the 10-7 prediction this year but god forbid you ever admit you’re wrong.
Go play boggle or something…
Still trying to make fetch happen, eh dep? Your Boggle joke is as lame as you are.
I know it's frustrating for you to go up against me because I'm just so far above your intellectual capacity, but no one is making you do it. You choose to embarrass yourself on your own.
Your next original thought on this site will be your first.
A true MMQB warrior who only comes to this site to insult others because he’s been a major disappointment in life. Seriously think about this. You come to an anonymous site to get your rocks off by insulting others.
About as pathetic as it comes.
And we both know my boggles comments are funny since you definitely play in tournaments and get smashed in them… hahaha.
The lowest regular season winning percentage of any NFL championship and a massive statistical anomaly?
So a good season?
If the crowd that's optimistic about Jones could muster the simple phrase "I believe Daniel Jones can win a championship with the Giants" -- I think crowd that's pessimistic would disagree, but at least respect the opinion.
If the optimistic upside is just make the playoffs, that's a pretty low bar.
Because once you get in - anything can happen which we have seen in every professional sport. So going 10-7 is not a low bar whatsoever and it has nothing to do with Daniel Jones either.
The goal of a current team is to make the playoffs - so going 10-7 this year, next or for the next 5 years is not pretty sad whatsoever.
We're making fun of the guy because his "you'll see" is the functional equivalent of a slap in a gunfight.
If the big gotcha is Jones gets to the playoffs, we're not impressed. In year 6, with a loaded roster, a quarterback should be a championship threat.
If the big gotcha is Jones gets to the playoffs, we're not impressed. In year 6, with a loaded roster, a quarterback should be a championship threat.
So by year 5-6, a QB with a big contract should be leading his teams to a title contender? Right?
If you're super fan number one of a quarterback in year 6 of his career, you should definitely believe the guy can be a title contender.
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So by year 5-6, a QB with a big contract should be leading his teams to a title contender? Right?
If you're super fan number one of a quarterback in year 6 of his career, you should definitely believe the guy can be a title contender.
I agree with you.
But QB is a very hard position to judge. It would be ludicrous for me to say that the Chargers should move on from Herbert right? I mean really good teams with a lot of talent, and 0 playoff wins? They’re nowhere near a title contender but we both agree he is a piece.
Now is Jones a piece? Probably not. But it’s hard to argue during the last 5 years any QB would make us a title contender maybe outside Mahomes. My point is you want to be competitive every year. So Jones making the playoffs this year is not pretty sad. Nor would it have been any year he was our QB.
Seems like we are doing better evaluating talent and getting rid of the fat we don’t need. It’s not blasphemy to say Jones can be a playoff QB and we can still look to improve on him.
That's my only point.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
Gotcha, thanks..
We fixed the WRs. If we got the line even close to right, I expect a much better year from Jones than many of you.
Agreed.
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I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
Three.
Herbert can win a title- but has been unlucky with his coach (Staley was AWFUL), untimely injuries, and a little bit of bad luck.
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In comment 16570185 christian said:
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I think if Herbert was the Giants quarterback, they would be Super Bowl contenders, and I would confidently voice that opinion.
That's my only point.
If he couldn’t win with guys like Allen, Ekeler, Williams, Slater, Lindsay, and some really good defenders…
Why would he fare better with a worse cast? Or are you talking about this year? Sorry for the confusion.
That's probably why evaluating QBs based solely on wins is absurd.
Justin Herbert has lost games with the following Chargers point totals in his career: 29, 31, 28, 26, 38, 28, 27, 32, 27, 34, 30, 30 (playoffs).
Those are 12 of his 33 career losses in which the Chargers offense, led by Herbert, inarguably did its part. There are three additional losses with 24 points scored.
He's also won games with the Chargers allowing: 28, 27, 37, 42, 28, 29, and 5 times with them allowing 24.
Those "good defensive players" have done him no favors in repeatedly blowing late leads.
You know how many times Daniel Jones has scored 24+ points and lost?
Four.
How many wins does Jones have when the Giants allow 24+ points?
Three.
And DJ's had the worst OL and receivers combination in the league. That affects a QB's production. I've watched tons of Herbert because I like watching him play. His WRs are much better than anything DJ's had. Josh Palmer (his #3) is better than DJ's WR1 (Slayton). Keenan Allen in particular is the most underrated WR in the league IMO.
It matters.
The Giants Oline has been awful and his receivers have not shown they are consistent contributors. But it is also true that you can have a bad QB behind a bad with bad receivers. It is disingenuous to pretend that there have not been plenty of instances where guys have been open, and he has had time, where he has not gotten it done.
This team sucking is a meal prepared by a bunch of terrible cooks. Jones is just one of the reasons this team is bad. Having a bad line and weak receivers does not absolve him for his poor play.