The case for Eli is that the Hall has been watered down to a Hall of Very Good. If it were a serious Hall of Fame with only the very best, Eli wouldn't belong there.
I think I read somewhere that the HOF is going to change its procedures in some way, so maybe we'll see that deserved division between the very best (Montana, Brady, Unitas, etc.) and the very good.
All of the above except Eli also have regular season MVP awards.
Aaron Rodgers won the RS MVP in 2011. 45 TDs and 6 INTs vs. 29/16 for Eli.
But Eli DID lead the 25th ranked D and the dead last running game to a Super Bowl win. I don’t even care to argue about him with “others”. Outplaying the VP in the process.
I know he’s unique and I love him for it.
I just don’t care what people think about him. He was regular af until he wasn’t. And it resulted in 2 damn rings. That’s why he can sit at a table with Brady/Peyton and the greats. He can sit at any table. Just a legend.
I think what people lose sight of with the - if it wasn’t for the Super Bowls argument
The playoffs and Super Bowls represent the best teams that are playing their best with every focus and attention on the best football at that moment
Eli had two all time epic playoff runs against not just some of the best teams that year but some of the best teams EVER
It doesn’t impress me that a guy like Rivers or Matt Ryan can throw for 300 yds and 3 TDs in September in a dome or San Diego vs the Carolina Panthers or Raiders
It impresses me that Eli Manning can be dominant in an Ice Bowl in Lambeau Field vs Brett Favre in January or a rainstorm vs an all-time defense in San Francisco or score TDs in the 4Q vs the undefeated Patroits and Brady
Back in that timeframe people used to have a saying- give Bill Belichick 2 weeks and he can beat anyone. Well, he didnt beat Eli Manning twice with 2 weeks worth of prep.
The best of the best does it at the most critical and crucial times when the best are at their best and beats them. Eli did that.
You want a QB to throw TDs in September vs a 5 win team? Pick a Philip Rivers or a Matt Ryan. You want a QB to go on the road and beat 15-1, 13-3 teams with #1 defenses and HoF QBs and HoF HCs and in bad weather? You take Eli Manning
Would you try to convince the maggots in the nearest dumpster
Aaron Rodgers won the RS MVP in 2011. 45 TDs and 6 INTs vs. 29/16 for Eli.
But Eli DID lead the 25th ranked D and the dead last running game to a Super Bowl win. I don’t even care to argue about him with “others”. Outplaying the VP in the process.
I know he’s unique and I love him for it.
I just don’t care what people think about him. He was regular af until he wasn’t. And it resulted in 2 damn rings. That’s why he can sit at a table with Brady/Peyton and the greats. He can sit at any table. Just a legend.
Hall of Famer
My point was to further show how unique Eli's career is. Every QB with 2 or > SB MVPs also had at least 1 regular season MVP. Except Eli...of course. ;)
I would pay decent money to be in that debate room next year when Eli's name is up. The tone will likely be the complete opposite of what is was for big bro Peyton.
Looking at the 2025 class, btw, the only lock to me is T-Sizzle.
Vinatieri was awesome, but I'm not sure a K will get that magical first ballot reward.
How? You tell them Eli is the only QB diagnosed with Ligma
He's one of five QBs to win 2 Superbowls and two SB MVPs
The Gb Packers have only lost TWO playoff games at home in their 100 year history. Eli beat them there twice in the playoffs.
He has more road playoff wins than Peyton or Brady (as of his retirement).
He beat the 18-0 Pats.
He's top 10 in every historical stat category that matters.
In the 2 superbowl runs Eli threw 15 TDs and 2 picks.
Mic drop
I don't think it's true that the Packers have lost only 2 playoff games at home in their history. A quick Google search said it's not true--with all due respect, if that were true, I feel like we would have been hearing about that all the time.
Manning is 100% getting inducted. No chance Manning Inc. won't get that moment.
His career has some ebbs and flows. His first 3 years he road Barber, who obviously deserves to be in as well. The next 6 years he was definitely a top 10 quarterback, and would have won more games if not for the comedy of injuries.
If Coughlin and crew could have developed any of the steady flow of linemen in the back half of his career, Manning definitely goes out with a better record.
He's one of five QBs to win 2 Superbowls and two SB MVPs
The Gb Packers have only lost TWO playoff games at home in their 100 year history. Eli beat them there twice in the playoffs.
He has more road playoff wins than Peyton or Brady (as of his retirement).
He beat the 18-0 Pats.
He's top 10 in every historical stat category that matters.
In the 2 superbowl runs Eli threw 15 TDs and 2 picks.
Mic drop
I don't think it's true that the Packers have lost only 2 playoff games at home in their history. A quick Google search said it's not true--with all due respect, if that were true, I feel like we would have been hearing about that all the time.
Didn’t the Vick Falcons beat them at Lambeau? I think the Vikes did too when Buck lost his mind over Moss mooning the fans.
is completely underwhelming, as the regular season is far more important to the voters.
Like his 50% regular season record, I'd give his HOF chances at 50%.
I struggle with assigning a W/L record to QBs. It's certainly a variable to consider, but I don't think it's as important as TDs, YPA, A/YPA, comp%, QBR, GW drives, 4th quarter comebacks, etc.
I think the regular season is a big deal. And how a player performs over a season and career establishes a profile of who that player is. In Eli's case, he was an above average QB over his career and never led the league in anything except, unfortunately, interceptions
PFR has a Hall of Fame Monitor that attempts to attribute a score to a player's HOF credentials.
You can see that Eli's score is above several guys that are already in. He's definitely going to get in based on the "if so and so is in" argument.
I think they need to stratify the HOF where the very best of the best are in their own room. Jim Kelly was a good player, but he doesn't belong in the same room as Joe Montana.
He's there statistically with the Eli/Roethlisberger/Rivers group. Actually those three are in their own statistical group ahead of Eli; Eli's case, IMO, rests entirely on 8 playoff games in 2007 and 2011 - which is obviously a compelling case.
Again, they're all going to get in. I don't think there's any doubt. There are guys that are in who has lesser careers than Eli did.
He's there statistically with the Eli/Roethlisberger/Rivers group. Actually those three are in their own statistical group ahead of Eli; Eli's case, IMO, rests entirely on 8 playoff games in 2007 and 2011 - which is obviously a compelling case.
Again, they're all going to get in. I don't think there's any doubt. There are guys that are in who has lesser careers than Eli did.
I don't know about Ryan. He does have a regular season MVP and did play great in that SB loss to New England. But he needed that to seal it (like Stafford need his SB win).
But that loss was so catastrophic that it may haunt Ryan for a long time...
I think Rivers is going to have to wait. He does have some bold type - leading the league in categories - but they/he had some brutal playoff losses, especially the loss to New England at the top seed in 2006. Rivers couldn't throw the ball into the ocean that day...
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I thought Deion Sanders put it best on the subject:
Quote:
Deion Sanders has been in the Pro Football Hall of Fame for more than a decade now, but apparently, he doesn't think being in the Hall of Fame is quite the honor it used to be.
During a lengthy rant about the Hall of Fame, Sanders insinuated that it's now too easy for players to get in and that the Hall needs to think about separating the best Hall of Famers from other Hall of Famers by giving out a different color jacket (Each Hall of Famer gets a gold jacket the night before they're inducted).
"The Hall of Fame ain't the Hall of Fame no more," Sanders said. "I love it, I respect it, I admire it. I think all the guys who are inducted are definitely deserving, but it needs to be a different color jacket. My jacket's gotta be a different color."
If it were up to Sanders, he would totally revamp the process for getting into the Hall of Fame. The former 49ers and Cowboys star said he would create a top tier of Hall of Famers that would only feature 22 players (11 starters on offense and 11 on defense).
"There needs to be a starting 11, there needs to be an upper room," Sanders said. "My [bust] don't belong with some of these other [busts] that's in the Hall of Fame. I'm sorry, I'm just being honest. I'm just saying what you all are thinking and a lot of you all Hall of Famers are thinking the same thing. This thing is becoming a free-for-all now, man."
Sanders also believes that the Hall of Fame should only be letting in players who "changed the game."
"That's what the Hall of Fame is, a game-changer," Sanders said. "Not 'I played good, I had a good little run. I gave you three or four good years.'"
First, not sure why you need to waste time convincing Jets fans of anything.
Now, regarding Eli. His regular season performances have not been HOF worthy.
The TEAM had two great playoff runs. Eli was a major contributor and played exceptionally well. However, I would not say that he carried the team on his shoulders.
I would vote him in, but I am a Giants fan.
I hate to see the arguments to let one person in because someone else is in. Especially when you are simply comparing stats. The QBs today are playing in a pass heavy era for example.
At some point, the HOF will be meaningless if we keep lowering the bar.
“I just feel like never in my career have I ever been a part of a quarterback getting manhandled and brutalized as much as I saw Eli get manhandled and basically get his ass whooped that entire night,” Rolle said. “He just had a different demeanor about himself. I felt like he was our Superman. There were so many times throughout the course of the game where I was like, ‘Man, that’s it. He’s not getting up.’ And sure enough, every single time he would get up, he would shake his shoulder pads, he would fix his jersey on his shoulder pads and he kept on moving along and he kept firing that ball.
I just felt like he was going to be unstoppable. Honestly, they gave him everything he wanted. Those guys were relentless, they were rough, they were brutal — I mean, they whooped his natural ass. But Eli kept chugging along and he kept the same demeanor on his face. That demeanor on his face was pretty much saying, ‘I’m not going to stop no matter what. They can kick me, they can beat me, they can scratch me, they can claw me, but I’m still going to complete these passes, I’m still going to get my job done and at the end of the day, we will be victorious.’” Rolle’s opinion of Manning was elevated that day. “That was the moment that I became an Eli Manning fan. That made me a fan for life,” Rolle said. “I just always looked at him as a very confident quarterback, a teammate, a guy that can get it done. But that’s when I honestly became a fan. There’s not too many players that I’m a fan of in the National Football League. But I became a fan of Eli Manning that day.”
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
RE: RE: I tend to ride with Terps on the HOF stuff
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Can you tell the story of the NFL without Curtis Martin and Chris Carter? Absolutely. They were very good players when they played the game. Were they players anyone is telling their grandkids about? Nope.
But as the argument goes, if you put those two guys in, why the hell would you leave Eli out?
The way the HoF is currently structured, of course Eli belong in it. If you listed the top 50 players/coaches/contributors of all time to the the NFL is Eli on that list? Nope.
RE: RE: RE: I tend to ride with Terps on the HOF stuff
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
I agree with most of this Terps. I mentioned earlier that it will become meaningless.
Warren Moon had an amazing career. I would not simply look at Superbowls.
We could say Mahomes is on track, but I would not put him in today if his plane crashed into a mountain this evening.
RE: RE: RE: I tend to ride with Terps on the HOF stuff
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
I can't say it wasn't, but I've only saw it recently and it's always brought up around Eli.
Pretty sure you won't be able to convince a Jet fan that Eli
You would ultimately need to bring up Eli's two Super Bowl wins to make the case. And at that point most Jet fans under the age of 80 would say "What do you mean...what's a Super Bowl?".
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
There is merit to the "no hesitation test". The only position where that gets difficult is the Non-LT OL positions.
It seems like you were being rhetorical, but Roethlisberger is definitive for me. His off-script stuff was brilliant. And getting to three SBs in the Brady/Manning Era is impressive.
I give the nod to Moon, too, because he didn't get to the NFL until he was 28 because the NFL was still not buying black QBs as an answer. So, he spent key years of his career in Canada.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I tend to ride with Terps on the HOF stuff
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
I agree with most of this Terps. I mentioned earlier that it will become meaningless.
Warren Moon had an amazing career. I would not simply look at Superbowls.
We could say Mahomes is on track, but I would not put him in today if his plane crashed into a mountain this evening.
If Mahomes quit football today he moonwalks into the smallest QB room in Canton. He is already in the discussion for greatest QB in the history of the league, and is light years beyond the Eli/Ben/Rivers/Ryan types.
Quote:
The case for Eli is that the Hall has been watered down to a Hall of Very Good. If it were a serious Hall of Fame with only the very best, Eli wouldn't belong there.
I think I read somewhere that the HOF is going to change its procedures in some way, so maybe we'll see that deserved division between the very best (Montana, Brady, Unitas, etc.) and the very good.
Most shocking post on this thread.
Consider the source🙄
Eli is a lock. Just a ? of when he gets in. & I'll be in Canton for that HOF speech.
Quote:
Multiple SB MVP Winners
5 - Brady
3 - Montana
3 - Mahomes
2 - Starr
2 - Bradshaw
2 - Eli
All of the above except Eli also have regular season MVP awards.
Aaron Rodgers won the RS MVP in 2011. 45 TDs and 6 INTs vs. 29/16 for Eli.
But Eli DID lead the 25th ranked D and the dead last running game to a Super Bowl win. I don’t even care to argue about him with “others”. Outplaying the VP in the process.
I know he’s unique and I love him for it.
I just don’t care what people think about him. He was regular af until he wasn’t. And it resulted in 2 damn rings. That’s why he can sit at a table with Brady/Peyton and the greats. He can sit at any table. Just a legend.
Hall of Famer
The playoffs and Super Bowls represent the best teams that are playing their best with every focus and attention on the best football at that moment
Eli had two all time epic playoff runs against not just some of the best teams that year but some of the best teams EVER
It doesn’t impress me that a guy like Rivers or Matt Ryan can throw for 300 yds and 3 TDs in September in a dome or San Diego vs the Carolina Panthers or Raiders
It impresses me that Eli Manning can be dominant in an Ice Bowl in Lambeau Field vs Brett Favre in January or a rainstorm vs an all-time defense in San Francisco or score TDs in the 4Q vs the undefeated Patroits and Brady
Back in that timeframe people used to have a saying- give Bill Belichick 2 weeks and he can beat anyone. Well, he didnt beat Eli Manning twice with 2 weeks worth of prep.
The best of the best does it at the most critical and crucial times when the best are at their best and beats them. Eli did that.
You want a QB to throw TDs in September vs a 5 win team? Pick a Philip Rivers or a Matt Ryan. You want a QB to go on the road and beat 15-1, 13-3 teams with #1 defenses and HoF QBs and HoF HCs and in bad weather? You take Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers won the RS MVP in 2011. 45 TDs and 6 INTs vs. 29/16 for Eli.
But Eli DID lead the 25th ranked D and the dead last running game to a Super Bowl win. I don’t even care to argue about him with “others”. Outplaying the VP in the process.
I know he’s unique and I love him for it.
I just don’t care what people think about him. He was regular af until he wasn’t. And it resulted in 2 damn rings. That’s why he can sit at a table with Brady/Peyton and the greats. He can sit at any table. Just a legend.
Hall of Famer
My point was to further show how unique Eli's career is. Every QB with 2 or > SB MVPs also had at least 1 regular season MVP. Except Eli...of course. ;)
I would pay decent money to be in that debate room next year when Eli's name is up. The tone will likely be the complete opposite of what is was for big bro Peyton.
Looking at the 2025 class, btw, the only lock to me is T-Sizzle.
Vinatieri was awesome, but I'm not sure a K will get that magical first ballot reward.
The Gb Packers have only lost TWO playoff games at home in their 100 year history. Eli beat them there twice in the playoffs.
He has more road playoff wins than Peyton or Brady (as of his retirement).
He beat the 18-0 Pats.
He's top 10 in every historical stat category that matters.
In the 2 superbowl runs Eli threw 15 TDs and 2 picks.
Mic drop
The Gb Packers have only lost TWO playoff games at home in their 100 year history. Eli beat them there twice in the playoffs.
He has more road playoff wins than Peyton or Brady (as of his retirement).
He beat the 18-0 Pats.
He's top 10 in every historical stat category that matters.
In the 2 superbowl runs Eli threw 15 TDs and 2 picks.
Mic drop
I don't think it's true that the Packers have lost only 2 playoff games at home in their history. A quick Google search said it's not true--with all due respect, if that were true, I feel like we would have been hearing about that all the time.
Only people who are fringe fans, people who only read statlines, play fantasy, etc dont understand it.
Like his 50% regular season record, I'd give his HOF chances at 50%.
His career has some ebbs and flows. His first 3 years he road Barber, who obviously deserves to be in as well. The next 6 years he was definitely a top 10 quarterback, and would have won more games if not for the comedy of injuries.
If Coughlin and crew could have developed any of the steady flow of linemen in the back half of his career, Manning definitely goes out with a better record.
Here's how you convince them: wait a year, and he'll be a HOFer.
Quote:
He's one of five QBs to win 2 Superbowls and two SB MVPs
The Gb Packers have only lost TWO playoff games at home in their 100 year history. Eli beat them there twice in the playoffs.
He has more road playoff wins than Peyton or Brady (as of his retirement).
He beat the 18-0 Pats.
He's top 10 in every historical stat category that matters.
In the 2 superbowl runs Eli threw 15 TDs and 2 picks.
Mic drop
I don't think it's true that the Packers have lost only 2 playoff games at home in their history. A quick Google search said it's not true--with all due respect, if that were true, I feel like we would have been hearing about that all the time.
Didn’t the Vick Falcons beat them at Lambeau? I think the Vikes did too when Buck lost his mind over Moss mooning the fans.
Like his 50% regular season record, I'd give his HOF chances at 50%.
I struggle with assigning a W/L record to QBs. It's certainly a variable to consider, but I don't think it's as important as TDs, YPA, A/YPA, comp%, QBR, GW drives, 4th quarter comebacks, etc.
I think the regular season is a big deal. And how a player performs over a season and career establishes a profile of who that player is. In Eli's case, he was an above average QB over his career and never led the league in anything except, unfortunately, interceptions
Thats all that matters to merit his induction.
Mic drop
Pick the mic up until you can get your facts straight.
You can see that Eli's score is above several guys that are already in. He's definitely going to get in based on the "if so and so is in" argument.
I think they need to stratify the HOF where the very best of the best are in their own room. Jim Kelly was a good player, but he doesn't belong in the same room as Joe Montana.
Link - ( New Window )
Look how high Matt Ryan is.
Thats all that matters to merit his induction.
He's getting in, but I just don't but this "it's a slam dunk" decision.
- Top ten: games, completions, passing yards and TDs
- Iron man streak
And he even shares the record for the longest pass and touchdown of all time. Perhaps Jets fans might remember this?
Eli Manning to Victor Cruz 99-yard pass vs. Jets - ( New Window )
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )
Look how high Matt Ryan is.
He's there statistically with the Eli/Roethlisberger/Rivers group. Actually those three are in their own statistical group ahead of Eli; Eli's case, IMO, rests entirely on 8 playoff games in 2007 and 2011 - which is obviously a compelling case.
Again, they're all going to get in. I don't think there's any doubt. There are guys that are in who has lesser careers than Eli did.
He's there statistically with the Eli/Roethlisberger/Rivers group. Actually those three are in their own statistical group ahead of Eli; Eli's case, IMO, rests entirely on 8 playoff games in 2007 and 2011 - which is obviously a compelling case.
Again, they're all going to get in. I don't think there's any doubt. There are guys that are in who has lesser careers than Eli did.
I don't know about Ryan. He does have a regular season MVP and did play great in that SB loss to New England. But he needed that to seal it (like Stafford need his SB win).
But that loss was so catastrophic that it may haunt Ryan for a long time...
I think Rivers is going to have to wait. He does have some bold type - leading the league in categories - but they/he had some brutal playoff losses, especially the loss to New England at the top seed in 2006. Rivers couldn't throw the ball into the ocean that day...
Quote:
Eli won TWO super bowl MVPs - outplaying the GOAT in the process. He made one of the most remarkable plays in SB history to win one of them.
Thats all that matters to merit his induction.
He's getting in, but I just don't but this "it's a slam dunk" decision.
I agree.
The soft factors - beating Brady 2x, The Catch, his blossoming media persona, him being such a damn great dude - should seal it.
:smile:
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I thought Deion Sanders put it best on the subject:
Deion Sanders has been in the Pro Football Hall of Fame for more than a decade now, but apparently, he doesn't think being in the Hall of Fame is quite the honor it used to be.
During a lengthy rant about the Hall of Fame, Sanders insinuated that it's now too easy for players to get in and that the Hall needs to think about separating the best Hall of Famers from other Hall of Famers by giving out a different color jacket (Each Hall of Famer gets a gold jacket the night before they're inducted).
"The Hall of Fame ain't the Hall of Fame no more," Sanders said. "I love it, I respect it, I admire it. I think all the guys who are inducted are definitely deserving, but it needs to be a different color jacket. My jacket's gotta be a different color."
If it were up to Sanders, he would totally revamp the process for getting into the Hall of Fame. The former 49ers and Cowboys star said he would create a top tier of Hall of Famers that would only feature 22 players (11 starters on offense and 11 on defense).
"There needs to be a starting 11, there needs to be an upper room," Sanders said. "My [bust] don't belong with some of these other [busts] that's in the Hall of Fame. I'm sorry, I'm just being honest. I'm just saying what you all are thinking and a lot of you all Hall of Famers are thinking the same thing. This thing is becoming a free-for-all now, man."
Sanders also believes that the Hall of Fame should only be letting in players who "changed the game."
"That's what the Hall of Fame is, a game-changer," Sanders said. "Not 'I played good, I had a good little run. I gave you three or four good years.'"
He's right.
Link - ( New Window )
Now, regarding Eli. His regular season performances have not been HOF worthy.
The TEAM had two great playoff runs. Eli was a major contributor and played exceptionally well. However, I would not say that he carried the team on his shoulders.
I would vote him in, but I am a Giants fan.
I hate to see the arguments to let one person in because someone else is in. Especially when you are simply comparing stats. The QBs today are playing in a pass heavy era for example.
At some point, the HOF will be meaningless if we keep lowering the bar.
I just felt like he was going to be unstoppable. Honestly, they gave him everything he wanted. Those guys were relentless, they were rough, they were brutal — I mean, they whooped his natural ass. But Eli kept chugging along and he kept the same demeanor on his face. That demeanor on his face was pretty much saying, ‘I’m not going to stop no matter what. They can kick me, they can beat me, they can scratch me, they can claw me, but I’m still going to complete these passes, I’m still going to get my job done and at the end of the day, we will be victorious.’” Rolle’s opinion of Manning was elevated that day. “That was the moment that I became an Eli Manning fan. That made me a fan for life,” Rolle said. “I just always looked at him as a very confident quarterback, a teammate, a guy that can get it done. But that’s when I honestly became a fan. There’s not too many players that I’m a fan of in the National Football League. But I became a fan of Eli Manning that day.”
Yeah, he never carried the team....
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
Quote:
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
But as the argument goes, if you put those two guys in, why the hell would you leave Eli out?
The way the HoF is currently structured, of course Eli belong in it. If you listed the top 50 players/coaches/contributors of all time to the the NFL is Eli on that list? Nope.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
I agree with most of this Terps. I mentioned earlier that it will become meaningless.
Warren Moon had an amazing career. I would not simply look at Superbowls.
We could say Mahomes is on track, but I would not put him in today if his plane crashed into a mountain this evening.
Quote:
In comment 16571014 djm said:
Quote:
it's become a bit watered down in both the MLB and NFL. But with that said Eli is every bit the player some of his peers were that got into Canton.
I like the idea of some kind of wing or tier setup where you've got the absolute legendary wing and then the rest. Either way, Eli will get in. He's done too much for the league and NYG franchise on and off the field. Very good player who crafted a great career. And I think Eli was system proof. He'd have done well anywhere.
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
I can't say it wasn't, but I've only saw it recently and it's always brought up around Eli.
You would ultimately need to bring up Eli's two Super Bowl wins to make the case. And at that point most Jet fans under the age of 80 would say "What do you mean...what's a Super Bowl?".
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
There is merit to the "no hesitation test". The only position where that gets difficult is the Non-LT OL positions.
It seems like you were being rhetorical, but Roethlisberger is definitive for me. His off-script stuff was brilliant. And getting to three SBs in the Brady/Manning Era is impressive.
I give the nod to Moon, too, because he didn't get to the NFL until he was 28 because the NFL was still not buying black QBs as an answer. So, he spent key years of his career in Canada.
Quote:
I completely understand that take. My only rub is, this only seems to come up now when Eli is brought up. No one brought it up before with other inductees or potential inductees.
The watered down nature of the football HOF has been a topic for years. It's got nothing to do with Eli.
I've posted for years that my personal test for HOF in any sport is pretty simple:
Step 1. Pretend no one is currently in the Hall of Fame. This has to be done in order to eliminate the odious "well if X is in then Y has to be in" argument.
Step 2. Ask whether the player belongs in the HOF. If the answer is anything other than an immediate, resounding, undisputable "YES!"...the player is not a HOFer.
Is Ben Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer?
Is Warren Moon a Hall of Famer?
Is Patrick Mahomes a Hall of Famer? YES!
I agree with most of this Terps. I mentioned earlier that it will become meaningless.
Warren Moon had an amazing career. I would not simply look at Superbowls.
We could say Mahomes is on track, but I would not put him in today if his plane crashed into a mountain this evening.
If Mahomes quit football today he moonwalks into the smallest QB room in Canton. He is already in the discussion for greatest QB in the history of the league, and is light years beyond the Eli/Ben/Rivers/Ryan types.
Mahomes is an all timer, already.