In the draft. Paying $5 million to a backup QB who may not be better than an UDFA (and may be significantly worse) is a gross mismanagement of the QB room.
I’m not saying he’s a good QB. But he’s going to be the backup QB.
If devito outplays him and specifically knows the offense better having been in it in 2 years, he could very easily be 3rd qb.
I'd be shocked if that happens, he was signed to be the backup QB. And that's a lot - a LOT - of money to pay to a 3rd string QB. Again - I don't think Lock is particularly good or talented, but this board tends to overemphasize DeVito's talent level. Neither QB was particularly good last night.
In the Nabers plays we don’t know what his progressions were. It was also raining and he was playing without Andrew Thomas
it's not 1 play - the version of drew lock we saw last night was the same version he's always been, good tools no tool box. the sack he ran himself into was a good example. it was his first preseason game in a new offense so im sure there's room for improvement, but the expectation level for him should be realistic. the amount he got paid was realistic to his ability level, which is a mid to low end backup. he got half of what tyrod got gtd and tyrod cant even stay on the field for a month at a time.
RE: Which brings us back to the issue of not bringing in a QB somewhere
In the draft. Paying $5 million to a backup QB who may not be better than an UDFA (and may be significantly worse) is a gross mismanagement of the QB room.
they were going to have some kind of veteran in the room behind jones, esp before they knew hed be cleared for camp. if they wanted a cheap lotto ticket id have preferred fields or if they wanted a vet to get through a game flacco, but the odds are any day 3 pick would get beat out by devito even easier than lock will be.
you only have reps to develop so many QBs in camp, the decision was basically develop devito or someone else, not both.
think of lock like an expensive day 3 pick. he has better tools and more experience than most day 3 picks and is only a few years older than most of them.
In the Nabers plays we don’t know what his progressions were. It was also raining and he was playing without Andrew Thomas
it's not 1 play - the version of drew lock we saw last night was the same version he's always been, good tools no tool box. the sack he ran himself into was a good example. it was his first preseason game in a new offense so im sure there's room for improvement, but the expectation level for him should be realistic. the amount he got paid was realistic to his ability level, which is a mid to low end backup. he got half of what tyrod got gtd and tyrod cant even stay on the field for a month at a time.
It was a joke.
RE: RE: Which brings us back to the issue of not bringing in a QB somewhere
In the draft. Paying $5 million to a backup QB who may not be better than an UDFA (and may be significantly worse) is a gross mismanagement of the QB room.
they were going to have some kind of veteran in the room behind jones, esp before they knew hed be cleared for camp. if they wanted a cheap lotto ticket id have preferred fields or if they wanted a vet to get through a game flacco, but the odds are any day 3 pick would get beat out by devito even easier than lock will be.
you only have reps to develop so many QBs in camp, the decision was basically develop devito or someone else, not both.
think of lock like an expensive day 3 pick. he has better tools and more experience than most day 3 picks and is only a few years older than most of them.
While true, a day three pick at least has upside so there’s a potential ROI. Lock is basically an burned $5 million
RE: RE: RE: Which brings us back to the issue of not bringing in a QB somewhere
While true, a day three pick at least has upside so there’s a potential ROI. Lock is basically an burned $5 million
no day 3 pick's upside is going to be dramatically different than devito's, and their downside is going to be dramatically lower than both devito/lock (think jake fromm).
the 2023 draft had a bunch of day 3 QBs play, some who the nyg were tied to like DTR, and devito outplayed pretty much all of them. DTR had 1 td and 4 ints in 8 games. Clayton Tune was another i think they were linked to he had 2 ints and 0 tds. out of 10 day 3 qbs drafted aidan occonnell is basically the only other day 3 who played somewhat comparable to devito.
I'd keep Tommy and go with 2 QBs. I don't expect that to happen though. I think they want an experienced veteran back up and want to keep developing Devito.
We know they wanted Taylor back, and he either didn't want to or was too expensive. He signed for 6M AAV vs. the 5M Lock received, so my guess is the sticking point was the 2nd year the Jets offered.
Their plan was always to go into the draft with a veteran. So I think the calculation was draft Maye and then: Jones/Maye/Vet or don't draft Maye and Jones/Vet/DeVito.
They clearly feel DeVito > than late round project.
The rub is Drew Lock fucking sucks, and if Jones gets hurt, he's going to come in and suck.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Which brings us back to the issue of not bringing in a QB somewhere
While true, a day three pick at least has upside so there’s a potential ROI. Lock is basically an burned $5 million
no day 3 pick's upside is going to be dramatically different than devito's, and their downside is going to be dramatically lower than both devito/lock (think jake fromm).
the 2023 draft had a bunch of day 3 QBs play, some who the nyg were tied to like DTR, and devito outplayed pretty much all of them. DTR had 1 td and 4 ints in 8 games. Clayton Tune was another i think they were linked to he had 2 ints and 0 tds. out of 10 day 3 qbs drafted aidan occonnell is basically the only other day 3 who played somewhat comparable to devito.
Disagree that a day 3 pick’s upside isn’t that much higher than Devito’s. Daboll got what he glut last year out of a guy who wasn’t even a very good college player. The upside for a guy like Travis or Pratt with Dabolls track record is much higher than Devitos upside.
On the other side a day 3 pick has much more upside than Lock
Tribusky got half the amount of money and Jimmy G got $2 million less. A flyer on Huntley would have provide more potential upside for a quarter of the cost. Even Mariota was probably a better option than Lock.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Which brings us back to the issue of not bringing in a QB somewhere
Disagree that a day 3 pick’s upside isn’t that much higher than Devito’s. Daboll got what he glut last year out of a guy who wasn’t even a very good college player. The upside for a guy like Travis or Pratt with Dabolls track record is much higher than Devitos upside.
i liked travis but that is wishful thinking. he's 24 years old and just as undertalented a thrower as devito, also coming off majory injury (was red on their board, started camp on PUP, is currently on NFI list). are you so confident in travis that you'd trade tracy for him right now?
any day 3 QBs upside beyond what devito already appears to be, a playable backup QB, is mostly imagined. especially specifically in their rookie year. the odds of getting a brock purdy are a lot worse than 1 in 100 and if they are available on day 3 that means there isnt a single GM who believes their odds of success are better than that.
The additional downside to Luck being awful after 5 chances to develop, is if Schoen operates from the perspective he wants to pay his cap bills as much as possible today, Lock is the economic difference between getting a vet corner and not.
RE: Tribusky and Jimmy G would have been better options than lock
Tribusky got half the amount of money and Jimmy G got $2 million less. A flyer on Huntley would have provide more potential upside for a quarter of the cost. Even Mariota was probably a better option than Lock.
lock was a weird choice i wouldnt have made. by proxy of age alone he has more upside than the guys you mentioned, also better tools. i assume they rolled the dice on a younger guy with "upside" vs older guys who are better players because they felt comfortable also having devito as an option.
Notwithstanding the obvious caveats that it is preseason and this game was played against many players who will be out of the NFL in a couple of weeks, this was a positive step forward. I feel like Daboll's weight loss might be a metaphor for the 2024 Giants - a lighter, faster and a much more energetic version of this group than we have seen in his first two years. Maybe Daboll will in fact beat that seven second forty time after all!
The Good:
- The running game committee approach took a big step forward. Bricillo's OL appeared to be opening holes and Gray, Tracy and Turbo all looked good. I had been thinking that Turbo was making a strong case to make the roster with Gray the odd man out, but Gray put that thesis to rest last night. I now fully expect all four RBs to make the roster.
- The team speed on defense looks fantastic. Especially against the run. Johnson, Whitley, Oghoufo and Chatman were literally flying to the ball carrier. Quickly filling holes, taking on and shedding blockers and making impactful tackles. And these are the backups! Banks, Nubin and Phillips looked fantastic when they were on the field. Nubin clearly has the ceiling to be as good or even better than McKinney.
- DeVito played competently. He has a limited ceiling and makes some annoying mistakes (the premature slide) but he may be the best quarterback on the roster. The kid has moxie and his enthusiasm clearly energizes the offense. He is a virtual lock to make the roster or at the very least be protected on the practice squad.
The Not So Good:
- Drew Lock looked terrible last night. The whole point with his cannon is to take shots downfield. And Nabers was running wide open! Instead, we got a check down charlie performance and an interception the one time he threw the ball down field! The thesis that Daboll could elevate Lock's game ala Josh Allen appears to be pure folly so far. He needs to step up big time in the next two weeks or DeVito will be the backup and Lock will be dead weight on the roster. In the Giants current situation, not drafting a Milton or a Pratt in the sixth round was a mistake.
- Ojulari was overshadowed by both Basham and Whitley on the edge. Does he even make this roster? He seemed slow and ineffective and seemed to disappear during this game.
- While the OL did not have a bad game and the overall coordination seemed significantly improved, I am still not confident in Ezeudu and Miles at OT. If this were against Hutchinson and Davenport they would have gotten killed last night. Assuming Neal is out and/or ineffectual, I am afraid we have to hope that AT and JE remain healthy this year.
Overall, the positives outweigh the negatives. It was a solid start to the 2024 season.
The additional downside to Luck being awful after 5 chances to develop, is if Schoen operates from the perspective he wants to pay his cap bills as much as possible today, Lock is the economic difference between getting a vet corner and not.
tyrod was just as wasteful in 2022 when they were even more cap strapped, he got 1 chance to play and got hurt in his first series. right or wrong all 3 years they prioritized a veteran option on bench at QB early in FA, and after having watched the frommplosion i understand it even if i havent always agreed with their choices.
The down right hilarious part is someone in the play thought Drew Lock was a legitimate threat enough to challenge Jones as the starter, that it was said or implied.
That either speaks volumes on how Jones is viewed, or someone had recently visited Kanye's dentist.
The team isn’t going to lose someone who looks substantially better over that
I wouldn't assume anything with these decision makers in place.
Just go work in an NFL front office already. I mean, you're so great, you're really depriving the NFL and by extension the entire world of your talents by not having done so already.
Sam Darnold brought back a 5th round comp pick to SF this past offseason after starting just 1 game for them. overall on the season in 2023 he completed 28/46 passes, 2 tds, 1 int, took 6 sacks, ran for 1 td, and threw for 297 yards.
they signed him for 1 year 4.5m ahead of 2023, and somehow by virtue of some part luck of circumstances (kirk leaving MIN) and some part perception that he looked better on tape in his limited action, he got his salary doubled.
obviously there is no guarantee Lock works out, but i assume part of why they felt he was worth the risk is because he is still young and does have tools that give him upside. if they can successfully develop him and even if he only plays a very limited amount this year, he could bring them back a decent pick next year. that's not as much the case with older guys like trubisky/flacco.
The difference between Taylor and Lock, is it's a coin flip Taylor will play, but the 50% of the time he does he can function.
100% of the time Lock plays he's the worst quarterback playing in the NFL that day.
he's not 100% the worst qb, it's probably more like 60% to tyrod's 50% which is why they first wanted tyrod. when there became a 2x difference in the years/guarantees they decided the value wasnt worth it.
credit where it's due, his 2 starts last year were against SF and PHI and he went 1-1 with 90+ qb ratings in both games.
If the Giants are viewing the back up quarterback position as a comp pick opportunity, when we heard Schoen say Jones was a health liability about a dozen times on Hard Knocks, these aren't serious people.
If you are serious about competing for a championship and you have a guy with durability issues starting, you need to go get a durable and quality backup.
That's not Tyrod Taylor, but it's sure as fuck not Drew Lock.
RE: RE: Tribusky and Jimmy G would have been better options than lock
Tribusky got half the amount of money and Jimmy G got $2 million less. A flyer on Huntley would have provide more potential upside for a quarter of the cost. Even Mariota was probably a better option than Lock.
lock was a weird choice i wouldnt have made. by proxy of age alone he has more upside than the guys you mentioned, also better tools. i assume they rolled the dice on a younger guy with "upside" vs older guys who are better players because they felt comfortable also having devito as an option.
It’s a risky dice roll when the other options are a guy who is always hurt and a guy who probably isn’t any good.
If the Giants are viewing the back up quarterback position as a comp pick opportunity, when we heard Schoen say Jones was a health liability about a dozen times on Hard Knocks, these aren't serious people.
If you are serious about competing for a championship and you have a guy with durability issues starting, you need to go get a durable and quality backup.
That's not Tyrod Taylor, but it's sure as fuck not Drew Lock.
so who would you have had them sign better and more durable than tyrod? if you are complaining about locks $5m, surely whoever checks those boxes is going to be worth more than that.
RE: RE: RE: Tribusky and Jimmy G would have been better options than lock
Tribusky got half the amount of money and Jimmy G got $2 million less. A flyer on Huntley would have provide more potential upside for a quarter of the cost. Even Mariota was probably a better option than Lock.
lock was a weird choice i wouldnt have made. by proxy of age alone he has more upside than the guys you mentioned, also better tools. i assume they rolled the dice on a younger guy with "upside" vs older guys who are better players because they felt comfortable also having devito as an option.
It’s a risky dice roll when the other options are a guy who is always hurt and a guy who probably isn’t any good.
all dice rolls are risky. it's still less risky than a day 3 QB. just more expensive.
The biggest positive is seeing the backup offensive line group not have any glaring miscommunications or disasters. That's a reflection of coaching and presumably will carryover to the first group as well....
The Giants have had a terrible track record developing young players from at least the time Flaherty left.
Bricillo strikes me as the type of guy who isn't going to bitch about the resources invested in the group, but just focus on getting the best of the guys he has.
yep, and maybe he can add a different set of eyes on OL prospects in the draft and FA, where it already seems to be positive (after DG's awful trolling): fewer Day 1 and more Day 2/3 picks with his acumen to assess prospects he thinks he can develop. We get on Schoen a lot for his OL picks thus far, rightfully so, but some of that has to be he was working with the inherited, incumbent 'experts', no (he says hopefully)?
The only game in recent memory a guy gets more miles on than Lock vs. Philly, is Jones vs. Minnesota.
The same Philly team Taylor put a gem on in week 18.
But again, the problem is Lock vs. Taylor. The problem is having a low level backup when the GM was ready to replace the starter due to durability concerns.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Tribusky and Jimmy G would have been better options than lock
all dice rolls are risky. it's still less risky than a day 3 QB. just more expensive.
Don’t agree that it’s less risky in every scenario but hypothetically let’s say that’s true, rolling the dice on Lock when there were better options on the market is mismanagement.
Given Jones injury history they needed someone who could give them better than Tyrod/Devito gave them last year if they were dead set on bringing in a vet. Jimmy G, Tribusky, Winston, and Mariota all fit that description and Huntley probably fits that description with some potential upside.
if tyrod were still here and devito continues playing the way he looked yesterday, would you want to see devito off the bench first ahead of tyrod (or any other vet fill in)?
same as ive said re lock, for pretty much any of the backup QBs who were available this offseason in FA or day 3 of draft my answer would be that devito should be #2. part of saving money on lock/tyrod was likely because they knew that was a distinct possibility. signing lock makes the most sense as a "what is the least we can spend on a guy who gives us a chance to win".
LOL. Yes, Drew Lock, the guy with one win over the last two seasons as you pointed out above gives them a credible chance to win. Eric, I'd like to introduce you to my friend the shark. He's eager to gauge your jumping ability.
The following QBs would have cost less than Taylor
Brissett (if Taylor gets his second year)
Mariota
Tribusky
Flacco
Winston
Wentz
Jimmy G
Huntley
All give the Giants the same if not better chance to win than Lock. If it was about saving money and having as much of a chance to win as Taylor, they did a bad job finding that QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Tribusky and Jimmy G would have been better options than lock
all dice rolls are risky. it's still less risky than a day 3 QB. just more expensive.
Don’t agree that it’s less risky in every scenario but hypothetically let’s say that’s true, rolling the dice on Lock when there were better options on the market is mismanagement.
Given Jones injury history they needed someone who could give them better than Tyrod/Devito gave them last year if they were dead set on bringing in a vet. Jimmy G, Tribusky, Winston, and Mariota all fit that description and Huntley probably fits that description with some potential upside.
daboll has won games with 3 different qbs and was competitive against the NFC champs with davis freaking webb. lock wasnt my choice and hed be behind devito on my depth chart but calling his signing "mismanagement" after a few preseason drives seems a little over dramatic no?
The team isn’t going to lose someone who looks substantially better over that
I wouldn't assume anything with these decision makers in place.
Just go work in an NFL front office already. I mean, you're so great, you're really depriving the NFL and by extension the entire world of your talents by not having done so already.
God fucking damn your act is tired.
You don't need to be a savant to see the quality of the job these guys are doing; you just need to put the blue pom poms down. Sorry to make you sad.
I get you feel the need to defend every move the organization makes
But I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to call the QB room a mismanagement, even after a few pre season drives, because Locks entire career isn’t much different than those preseason drives. Hes 27 and in his 5th year in the league. We have a pretty good idea of what Drew Lock is, there’s no reason to roll the dice on him.
There were 3 different ways to manage the QB room this spring:
1) bring in one of the top rookie QBs as the potential future
2) bring in a vet to legitimately compete for the QB who can be a competent backup.
3) bring in someone whose floor is higher than Devito’s because if Jones gets hurt, Devito probably isn’t good enough if you want to sneak into the playoffs
As of now, it looks like they did zero of those things. It’s safe to say they mismanaged the QB room from the vantage point we have at the moment.
LOL. Yes, Drew Lock, the guy with one win over the last two seasons as you pointed out above gives them a credible chance to win. Eric, I'd like to introduce you to my friend the shark. He's eager to gauge your jumping ability.
the only thing jumping the shark is any prior credibility i assumed you had to comprehend very basic numbers.
how many starts has your deity tyrod won the last 2 years? would you be surprised to realize it's just 1 more than lock at 2 (philly as you pointed out and the rousing 14-7 win vs washington).
was tyrod's 1 extra win worth an extra year guaranteed to you?
but if/when season is over and DJ injury guarantees come into focus, play devito...
You're a real optimist, huh? Is it possible that with a legit OL coach, decent OL, very good WR corps (3 things DJ's never had), that, oh I don't know, maybe Jones leads them to the playoffs and even wins 1 or more playoff games?
Is that really so crazy?
The post you're replying to clearly says "if" so it seems like you might be punching at air here.
RE: I get you feel the need to defend every move the organization makes
But I don’t see how it’s unreasonable to call the QB room a mismanagement, even after a few pre season drives, because Locks entire career isn’t much different than those preseason drives. Hes 27 and in his 5th year in the league. We have a pretty good idea of what Drew Lock is, there’s no reason to roll the dice on him.
There were 3 different ways to manage the QB room this spring:
1) bring in one of the top rookie QBs as the potential future
2) bring in a vet to legitimately compete for the QB who can be a competent backup.
3) bring in someone whose floor is higher than Devito’s because if Jones gets hurt, Devito probably isn’t good enough if you want to sneak into the playoffs
As of now, it looks like they did zero of those things. It’s safe to say they mismanaged the QB room from the vantage point we have at the moment.
i get that you feel the need to call any move you disagree with "mismanagement" but that's just not reality. nobody bats 1.000. pointing out that out isnt defending the organization it's defending reality.
ive made at least 10 posts in this thread stipulating how little i like lock (and dozens of others stretching back to his draft year) so i hardly see how you view my comments as some kind of bias. one can not like lock while also accepting the reality that wishfully thinking a day 3 qb will be better than him (or devito) in their rookie year doesnt make it so.
Ezeudu did not practice at LT at during camp last year. They threw him out at LT early in 2023 when Thomas went down. He played five games before ending up on IR again.
So if you equate no camp and five games with "plenty", I guess you could have a point.
Not to mention, he says that Ezeuda should not see the field until he proves that he can do it against staters. Hmmm. Makes it difficult to prove that if he’s not allowed on the field, no?
If you read my post you'll see I said 'should not see the field in a regular season game'. There are two more preseason games for him to get reps against another team's starters. And a practice against the Jets. And some more practice in pads. How is he doing against Burns and Thibs, if he is even getting the chance? All we read is about Burns and Thibs against Thomas.
This is a guy who looked terrible at tackle last year and nearly got Jones killed.
LOL. Yes, Drew Lock, the guy with one win over the last two seasons as you pointed out above gives them a credible chance to win. Eric, I'd like to introduce you to my friend the shark. He's eager to gauge your jumping ability.
the only thing jumping the shark is any prior credibility i assumed you had to comprehend very basic numbers.
how many starts has your deity tyrod won the last 2 years? would you be surprised to realize it's just 1 more than lock at 2 (philly as you pointed out and the rousing 14-7 win vs washington).
was tyrod's 1 extra win worth an extra year guaranteed to you?
It's amazing the point is going over your head so easily given the launch angle of your water skis.
This isn't a Tyrod Taylor vs. Drew Lock question. Taylor has obvious durability issues and Drew Lock is abysmal.
If the Giants were as concerned about Jones's durability as Schoen expressed in Hard Knocks, the Giants should have pursued a more durable and better backup, even if that cost more money.
Minshew, Brissett, Darnold, Flacco, Trubisky, and Mariota have all exhibited a better combination of durability and ability than Taylor or Lock.
Because I didn’t agree with not adding more to the CB room but have never called it mismanagement.
I’ve also given several alternatives to a day 3 pick, but if you want to only harp on that one - rolling the dice on a day 3 pick is a smarter decision than rolling the dice on Lock because in both scenarios you’re ending up with DeVito as your QB. The upside of molding the day 3 pick and the die landing on a favorable side has a larger payoff than rolling the dice on Lock and hoping year 5 is any different than years 1-4.
You say the Giants strategy was to find a backup who was cheaper than Taylor but that would still have a chance to win with. Even prior to those drives every Lock data point points to that not being what Lock is. If that was the strategy they either executed it poorly or their QB evaluation skills need a ton of improvement.
There were cheaper and better FA options on the market than paying Lock $5 million. I think it’s pretty safe to say that Lock being the only add to the QB room this spring was a mismanagement.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Ezedeu and McKethan both look like cut candidates
shame for the regimes draft picks, but there are better players on the roster than them for the big 9 OL spots.
McKethan, probably. Ezeudu? What were you watching?
he looked bad at T. hes not a T.
i think he had a shot at being a good G, but he never settled in at one position and now hes going to get cut or have to be given a roster scholarship.
i watched every snap.
Were you wearing an eye patch? Do you not know his number? Have you fallen and can't get up? Good fucking Christ you half wit, Ezeudu was dominant at LT. Lock stepped BACK in the pocket to a guy he had ridden outside and I'm guessing that's what your barely functioning eyes register as game long success. Big blue may rise, let's hope you don't tomorrow or you lose power so we don't have to read your inane ramblings. Have a good night you nincompoop.
I.laughed out loud reading this!
He was bad.
Just got fun got on Twitter and checked the thoughts of many people who cover this team for a living almost all mentioned ezedeu lowlight on the line so yeah not just me. He was categorically bad.
1,000 people saying the same stupid thing doesn't make it right. I guess they need to start teaching that in school.
Ezudu was textbook. Learn something.
Remind me. Weren't you the one who said yesterday that Gray was garbage and you couldn't wait till he got cut?
LOL. Yes, Drew Lock, the guy with one win over the last two seasons as you pointed out above gives them a credible chance to win. Eric, I'd like to introduce you to my friend the shark. He's eager to gauge your jumping ability.
the only thing jumping the shark is any prior credibility i assumed you had to comprehend very basic numbers.
how many starts has your deity tyrod won the last 2 years? would you be surprised to realize it's just 1 more than lock at 2 (philly as you pointed out and the rousing 14-7 win vs washington).
was tyrod's 1 extra win worth an extra year guaranteed to you?
It's amazing the point is going over your head so easily given the launch angle of your water skis.
This isn't a Tyrod Taylor vs. Drew Lock question. Taylor has obvious durability issues and Drew Lock is abysmal.
If the Giants were as concerned about Jones's durability as Schoen expressed in Hard Knocks, the Giants should have pursued a more durable and better backup, even if that cost more money.
Minshew, Brissett, Darnold, Flacco, Trubisky, and Mariota have all exhibited a better combination of durability and ability than Taylor or Lock.
The response will be something around Minshew getting $25 million over two years, but if the Giants end up moving on from Jones and drafting a QB, they’re probably signing a backup to a similar contract that Minshew would be on for next year.
shame for the regimes draft picks, but there are better players on the roster than them for the big 9 OL spots.
McKethan, probably. Ezeudu? What were you watching?
he looked bad at T. hes not a T.
i think he had a shot at being a good G, but he never settled in at one position and now hes going to get cut or have to be given a roster scholarship.
i watched every snap.
Were you wearing an eye patch? Do you not know his number? Have you fallen and can't get up? Good fucking Christ you half wit, Ezeudu was dominant at LT. Lock stepped BACK in the pocket to a guy he had ridden outside and I'm guessing that's what your barely functioning eyes register as game long success. Big blue may rise, let's hope you don't tomorrow or you lose power so we don't have to read your inane ramblings. Have a good night you nincompoop.
I.laughed out loud reading this!
He was bad.
Just got fun got on Twitter and checked the thoughts of many people who cover this team for a living almost all mentioned ezedeu lowlight on the line so yeah not just me. He was categorically bad.
1,000 people saying the same stupid thing doesn't make it right. I guess they need to start teaching that in school.
Ezudu was textbook. Learn something.
Remind me. Weren't you the one who said yesterday that Gray was garbage and you couldn't wait till he got cut?
Yup.
Actually I said it was unfair but Grey showed me nothing last season, and I wanted the other guys to knock him off the roster. And guess what - Grey said the exact same thing in his press conference - said last year wasn't him and wanted to show the real Eric Grey. And the other guys showed great too. I couldn't have asked for better.
Quote:
I’m not saying he’s a good QB. But he’s going to be the backup QB.
If devito outplays him and specifically knows the offense better having been in it in 2 years, he could very easily be 3rd qb.
I'd be shocked if that happens, he was signed to be the backup QB. And that's a lot - a LOT - of money to pay to a 3rd string QB. Again - I don't think Lock is particularly good or talented, but this board tends to overemphasize DeVito's talent level. Neither QB was particularly good last night.
it's not 1 play - the version of drew lock we saw last night was the same version he's always been, good tools no tool box. the sack he ran himself into was a good example. it was his first preseason game in a new offense so im sure there's room for improvement, but the expectation level for him should be realistic. the amount he got paid was realistic to his ability level, which is a mid to low end backup. he got half of what tyrod got gtd and tyrod cant even stay on the field for a month at a time.
they were going to have some kind of veteran in the room behind jones, esp before they knew hed be cleared for camp. if they wanted a cheap lotto ticket id have preferred fields or if they wanted a vet to get through a game flacco, but the odds are any day 3 pick would get beat out by devito even easier than lock will be.
you only have reps to develop so many QBs in camp, the decision was basically develop devito or someone else, not both.
think of lock like an expensive day 3 pick. he has better tools and more experience than most day 3 picks and is only a few years older than most of them.
Quote:
In the Nabers plays we don’t know what his progressions were. It was also raining and he was playing without Andrew Thomas
it's not 1 play - the version of drew lock we saw last night was the same version he's always been, good tools no tool box. the sack he ran himself into was a good example. it was his first preseason game in a new offense so im sure there's room for improvement, but the expectation level for him should be realistic. the amount he got paid was realistic to his ability level, which is a mid to low end backup. he got half of what tyrod got gtd and tyrod cant even stay on the field for a month at a time.
It was a joke.
Quote:
In the draft. Paying $5 million to a backup QB who may not be better than an UDFA (and may be significantly worse) is a gross mismanagement of the QB room.
they were going to have some kind of veteran in the room behind jones, esp before they knew hed be cleared for camp. if they wanted a cheap lotto ticket id have preferred fields or if they wanted a vet to get through a game flacco, but the odds are any day 3 pick would get beat out by devito even easier than lock will be.
you only have reps to develop so many QBs in camp, the decision was basically develop devito or someone else, not both.
think of lock like an expensive day 3 pick. he has better tools and more experience than most day 3 picks and is only a few years older than most of them.
While true, a day three pick at least has upside so there’s a potential ROI. Lock is basically an burned $5 million
While true, a day three pick at least has upside so there’s a potential ROI. Lock is basically an burned $5 million
no day 3 pick's upside is going to be dramatically different than devito's, and their downside is going to be dramatically lower than both devito/lock (think jake fromm).
the 2023 draft had a bunch of day 3 QBs play, some who the nyg were tied to like DTR, and devito outplayed pretty much all of them. DTR had 1 td and 4 ints in 8 games. Clayton Tune was another i think they were linked to he had 2 ints and 0 tds. out of 10 day 3 qbs drafted aidan occonnell is basically the only other day 3 who played somewhat comparable to devito.
Their plan was always to go into the draft with a veteran. So I think the calculation was draft Maye and then: Jones/Maye/Vet or don't draft Maye and Jones/Vet/DeVito.
They clearly feel DeVito > than late round project.
The rub is Drew Lock fucking sucks, and if Jones gets hurt, he's going to come in and suck.
Quote:
While true, a day three pick at least has upside so there’s a potential ROI. Lock is basically an burned $5 million
no day 3 pick's upside is going to be dramatically different than devito's, and their downside is going to be dramatically lower than both devito/lock (think jake fromm).
the 2023 draft had a bunch of day 3 QBs play, some who the nyg were tied to like DTR, and devito outplayed pretty much all of them. DTR had 1 td and 4 ints in 8 games. Clayton Tune was another i think they were linked to he had 2 ints and 0 tds. out of 10 day 3 qbs drafted aidan occonnell is basically the only other day 3 who played somewhat comparable to devito.
Disagree that a day 3 pick’s upside isn’t that much higher than Devito’s. Daboll got what he glut last year out of a guy who wasn’t even a very good college player. The upside for a guy like Travis or Pratt with Dabolls track record is much higher than Devitos upside.
Whether it was not brining in a rookie, or the vet QB they signed, the QB room was bungled this offseason. Don’t think that’s debatable.
Disagree that a day 3 pick’s upside isn’t that much higher than Devito’s. Daboll got what he glut last year out of a guy who wasn’t even a very good college player. The upside for a guy like Travis or Pratt with Dabolls track record is much higher than Devitos upside.
i liked travis but that is wishful thinking. he's 24 years old and just as undertalented a thrower as devito, also coming off majory injury (was red on their board, started camp on PUP, is currently on NFI list). are you so confident in travis that you'd trade tracy for him right now?
any day 3 QBs upside beyond what devito already appears to be, a playable backup QB, is mostly imagined. especially specifically in their rookie year. the odds of getting a brock purdy are a lot worse than 1 in 100 and if they are available on day 3 that means there isnt a single GM who believes their odds of success are better than that.
lock was a weird choice i wouldnt have made. by proxy of age alone he has more upside than the guys you mentioned, also better tools. i assume they rolled the dice on a younger guy with "upside" vs older guys who are better players because they felt comfortable also having devito as an option.
The Good:
- The running game committee approach took a big step forward. Bricillo's OL appeared to be opening holes and Gray, Tracy and Turbo all looked good. I had been thinking that Turbo was making a strong case to make the roster with Gray the odd man out, but Gray put that thesis to rest last night. I now fully expect all four RBs to make the roster.
- The team speed on defense looks fantastic. Especially against the run. Johnson, Whitley, Oghoufo and Chatman were literally flying to the ball carrier. Quickly filling holes, taking on and shedding blockers and making impactful tackles. And these are the backups! Banks, Nubin and Phillips looked fantastic when they were on the field. Nubin clearly has the ceiling to be as good or even better than McKinney.
- DeVito played competently. He has a limited ceiling and makes some annoying mistakes (the premature slide) but he may be the best quarterback on the roster. The kid has moxie and his enthusiasm clearly energizes the offense. He is a virtual lock to make the roster or at the very least be protected on the practice squad.
The Not So Good:
- Drew Lock looked terrible last night. The whole point with his cannon is to take shots downfield. And Nabers was running wide open! Instead, we got a check down charlie performance and an interception the one time he threw the ball down field! The thesis that Daboll could elevate Lock's game ala Josh Allen appears to be pure folly so far. He needs to step up big time in the next two weeks or DeVito will be the backup and Lock will be dead weight on the roster. In the Giants current situation, not drafting a Milton or a Pratt in the sixth round was a mistake.
- Ojulari was overshadowed by both Basham and Whitley on the edge. Does he even make this roster? He seemed slow and ineffective and seemed to disappear during this game.
- While the OL did not have a bad game and the overall coordination seemed significantly improved, I am still not confident in Ezeudu and Miles at OT. If this were against Hutchinson and Davenport they would have gotten killed last night. Assuming Neal is out and/or ineffectual, I am afraid we have to hope that AT and JE remain healthy this year.
Overall, the positives outweigh the negatives. It was a solid start to the 2024 season.
tyrod was just as wasteful in 2022 when they were even more cap strapped, he got 1 chance to play and got hurt in his first series. right or wrong all 3 years they prioritized a veteran option on bench at QB early in FA, and after having watched the frommplosion i understand it even if i havent always agreed with their choices.
That either speaks volumes on how Jones is viewed, or someone had recently visited Kanye's dentist.
Quote:
In comment 16571968 section125 said:
Quote:
is he has $5 mill gtd. Not going anywhere.
But DeVito look much better tonight.
The team isn’t going to lose someone who looks substantially better over that
I wouldn't assume anything with these decision makers in place.
Just go work in an NFL front office already. I mean, you're so great, you're really depriving the NFL and by extension the entire world of your talents by not having done so already.
God fucking damn your act is tired.
100% of the time Lock plays he's the worst quarterback playing in the NFL that day.
they signed him for 1 year 4.5m ahead of 2023, and somehow by virtue of some part luck of circumstances (kirk leaving MIN) and some part perception that he looked better on tape in his limited action, he got his salary doubled.
obviously there is no guarantee Lock works out, but i assume part of why they felt he was worth the risk is because he is still young and does have tools that give him upside. if they can successfully develop him and even if he only plays a very limited amount this year, he could bring them back a decent pick next year. that's not as much the case with older guys like trubisky/flacco.
100% of the time Lock plays he's the worst quarterback playing in the NFL that day.
he's not 100% the worst qb, it's probably more like 60% to tyrod's 50% which is why they first wanted tyrod. when there became a 2x difference in the years/guarantees they decided the value wasnt worth it.
credit where it's due, his 2 starts last year were against SF and PHI and he went 1-1 with 90+ qb ratings in both games.
If you are serious about competing for a championship and you have a guy with durability issues starting, you need to go get a durable and quality backup.
That's not Tyrod Taylor, but it's sure as fuck not Drew Lock.
Quote:
Tribusky got half the amount of money and Jimmy G got $2 million less. A flyer on Huntley would have provide more potential upside for a quarter of the cost. Even Mariota was probably a better option than Lock.
lock was a weird choice i wouldnt have made. by proxy of age alone he has more upside than the guys you mentioned, also better tools. i assume they rolled the dice on a younger guy with "upside" vs older guys who are better players because they felt comfortable also having devito as an option.
It’s a risky dice roll when the other options are a guy who is always hurt and a guy who probably isn’t any good.
If you are serious about competing for a championship and you have a guy with durability issues starting, you need to go get a durable and quality backup.
That's not Tyrod Taylor, but it's sure as fuck not Drew Lock.
so who would you have had them sign better and more durable than tyrod? if you are complaining about locks $5m, surely whoever checks those boxes is going to be worth more than that.
Quote:
In comment 16572251 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Tribusky got half the amount of money and Jimmy G got $2 million less. A flyer on Huntley would have provide more potential upside for a quarter of the cost. Even Mariota was probably a better option than Lock.
lock was a weird choice i wouldnt have made. by proxy of age alone he has more upside than the guys you mentioned, also better tools. i assume they rolled the dice on a younger guy with "upside" vs older guys who are better players because they felt comfortable also having devito as an option.
It’s a risky dice roll when the other options are a guy who is always hurt and a guy who probably isn’t any good.
all dice rolls are risky. it's still less risky than a day 3 QB. just more expensive.
The Giants have had a terrible track record developing young players from at least the time Flaherty left.
Bricillo strikes me as the type of guy who isn't going to bitch about the resources invested in the group, but just focus on getting the best of the guys he has.
yep, and maybe he can add a different set of eyes on OL prospects in the draft and FA, where it already seems to be positive (after DG's awful trolling): fewer Day 1 and more Day 2/3 picks with his acumen to assess prospects he thinks he can develop. We get on Schoen a lot for his OL picks thus far, rightfully so, but some of that has to be he was working with the inherited, incumbent 'experts', no (he says hopefully)?
The same Philly team Taylor put a gem on in week 18.
But again, the problem is Lock vs. Taylor. The problem is having a low level backup when the GM was ready to replace the starter due to durability concerns.
all dice rolls are risky. it's still less risky than a day 3 QB. just more expensive.
Don’t agree that it’s less risky in every scenario but hypothetically let’s say that’s true, rolling the dice on Lock when there were better options on the market is mismanagement.
Given Jones injury history they needed someone who could give them better than Tyrod/Devito gave them last year if they were dead set on bringing in a vet. Jimmy G, Tribusky, Winston, and Mariota all fit that description and Huntley probably fits that description with some potential upside.
same as ive said re lock, for pretty much any of the backup QBs who were available this offseason in FA or day 3 of draft my answer would be that devito should be #2. part of saving money on lock/tyrod was likely because they knew that was a distinct possibility. signing lock makes the most sense as a "what is the least we can spend on a guy who gives us a chance to win".
Brissett (if Taylor gets his second year)
Mariota
Tribusky
Flacco
Winston
Wentz
Jimmy G
Huntley
All give the Giants the same if not better chance to win than Lock. If it was about saving money and having as much of a chance to win as Taylor, they did a bad job finding that QB.
Quote:
all dice rolls are risky. it's still less risky than a day 3 QB. just more expensive.
Don’t agree that it’s less risky in every scenario but hypothetically let’s say that’s true, rolling the dice on Lock when there were better options on the market is mismanagement.
Given Jones injury history they needed someone who could give them better than Tyrod/Devito gave them last year if they were dead set on bringing in a vet. Jimmy G, Tribusky, Winston, and Mariota all fit that description and Huntley probably fits that description with some potential upside.
daboll has won games with 3 different qbs and was competitive against the NFC champs with davis freaking webb. lock wasnt my choice and hed be behind devito on my depth chart but calling his signing "mismanagement" after a few preseason drives seems a little over dramatic no?
Quote:
In comment 16571971 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16571968 section125 said:
Quote:
is he has $5 mill gtd. Not going anywhere.
But DeVito look much better tonight.
The team isn’t going to lose someone who looks substantially better over that
I wouldn't assume anything with these decision makers in place.
Just go work in an NFL front office already. I mean, you're so great, you're really depriving the NFL and by extension the entire world of your talents by not having done so already.
God fucking damn your act is tired.
You don't need to be a savant to see the quality of the job these guys are doing; you just need to put the blue pom poms down. Sorry to make you sad.
There were 3 different ways to manage the QB room this spring:
1) bring in one of the top rookie QBs as the potential future
2) bring in a vet to legitimately compete for the QB who can be a competent backup.
3) bring in someone whose floor is higher than Devito’s because if Jones gets hurt, Devito probably isn’t good enough if you want to sneak into the playoffs
As of now, it looks like they did zero of those things. It’s safe to say they mismanaged the QB room from the vantage point we have at the moment.
the only thing jumping the shark is any prior credibility i assumed you had to comprehend very basic numbers.
how many starts has your deity tyrod won the last 2 years? would you be surprised to realize it's just 1 more than lock at 2 (philly as you pointed out and the rousing 14-7 win vs washington).
was tyrod's 1 extra win worth an extra year guaranteed to you?
Quote:
In comment 16571968 section125 said:
Quote:
is he has $5 mill gtd. Not going anywhere.
But DeVito look much better tonight.
agree, lock is making the roster.
but if/when season is over and DJ injury guarantees come into focus, play devito...
You're a real optimist, huh? Is it possible that with a legit OL coach, decent OL, very good WR corps (3 things DJ's never had), that, oh I don't know, maybe Jones leads them to the playoffs and even wins 1 or more playoff games?
Is that really so crazy?
The post you're replying to clearly says "if" so it seems like you might be punching at air here.
There were 3 different ways to manage the QB room this spring:
1) bring in one of the top rookie QBs as the potential future
2) bring in a vet to legitimately compete for the QB who can be a competent backup.
3) bring in someone whose floor is higher than Devito’s because if Jones gets hurt, Devito probably isn’t good enough if you want to sneak into the playoffs
As of now, it looks like they did zero of those things. It’s safe to say they mismanaged the QB room from the vantage point we have at the moment.
i get that you feel the need to call any move you disagree with "mismanagement" but that's just not reality. nobody bats 1.000. pointing out that out isnt defending the organization it's defending reality.
ive made at least 10 posts in this thread stipulating how little i like lock (and dozens of others stretching back to his draft year) so i hardly see how you view my comments as some kind of bias. one can not like lock while also accepting the reality that wishfully thinking a day 3 qb will be better than him (or devito) in their rookie year doesnt make it so.
Quote:
That's not really true.
Ezeudu did not practice at LT at during camp last year. They threw him out at LT early in 2023 when Thomas went down. He played five games before ending up on IR again.
So if you equate no camp and five games with "plenty", I guess you could have a point.
Not to mention, he says that Ezeuda should not see the field until he proves that he can do it against staters. Hmmm. Makes it difficult to prove that if he’s not allowed on the field, no?
If you read my post you'll see I said 'should not see the field in a regular season game'. There are two more preseason games for him to get reps against another team's starters. And a practice against the Jets. And some more practice in pads. How is he doing against Burns and Thibs, if he is even getting the chance? All we read is about Burns and Thibs against Thomas.
This is a guy who looked terrible at tackle last year and nearly got Jones killed.
the only thing jumping the shark is any prior credibility i assumed you had to comprehend very basic numbers.
how many starts has your deity tyrod won the last 2 years? would you be surprised to realize it's just 1 more than lock at 2 (philly as you pointed out and the rousing 14-7 win vs washington).
was tyrod's 1 extra win worth an extra year guaranteed to you?
It's amazing the point is going over your head so easily given the launch angle of your water skis.
This isn't a Tyrod Taylor vs. Drew Lock question. Taylor has obvious durability issues and Drew Lock is abysmal.
If the Giants were as concerned about Jones's durability as Schoen expressed in Hard Knocks, the Giants should have pursued a more durable and better backup, even if that cost more money.
Minshew, Brissett, Darnold, Flacco, Trubisky, and Mariota have all exhibited a better combination of durability and ability than Taylor or Lock.
I’ve also given several alternatives to a day 3 pick, but if you want to only harp on that one - rolling the dice on a day 3 pick is a smarter decision than rolling the dice on Lock because in both scenarios you’re ending up with DeVito as your QB. The upside of molding the day 3 pick and the die landing on a favorable side has a larger payoff than rolling the dice on Lock and hoping year 5 is any different than years 1-4.
You say the Giants strategy was to find a backup who was cheaper than Taylor but that would still have a chance to win with. Even prior to those drives every Lock data point points to that not being what Lock is. If that was the strategy they either executed it poorly or their QB evaluation skills need a ton of improvement.
There were cheaper and better FA options on the market than paying Lock $5 million. I think it’s pretty safe to say that Lock being the only add to the QB room this spring was a mismanagement.
Quote:
In comment 16572032 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 16571964 bigbluewillrise said:
Quote:
In comment 16571957 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16571955 bigbluewillrise said:
Quote:
shame for the regimes draft picks, but there are better players on the roster than them for the big 9 OL spots.
McKethan, probably. Ezeudu? What were you watching?
he looked bad at T. hes not a T.
i think he had a shot at being a good G, but he never settled in at one position and now hes going to get cut or have to be given a roster scholarship.
i watched every snap.
Were you wearing an eye patch? Do you not know his number? Have you fallen and can't get up? Good fucking Christ you half wit, Ezeudu was dominant at LT. Lock stepped BACK in the pocket to a guy he had ridden outside and I'm guessing that's what your barely functioning eyes register as game long success. Big blue may rise, let's hope you don't tomorrow or you lose power so we don't have to read your inane ramblings. Have a good night you nincompoop.
I.laughed out loud reading this!
He was bad.
Just got fun got on Twitter and checked the thoughts of many people who cover this team for a living almost all mentioned ezedeu lowlight on the line so yeah not just me. He was categorically bad.
1,000 people saying the same stupid thing doesn't make it right. I guess they need to start teaching that in school.
Ezudu was textbook. Learn something.
Remind me. Weren't you the one who said yesterday that Gray was garbage and you couldn't wait till he got cut?
Quote:
LOL. Yes, Drew Lock, the guy with one win over the last two seasons as you pointed out above gives them a credible chance to win. Eric, I'd like to introduce you to my friend the shark. He's eager to gauge your jumping ability.
the only thing jumping the shark is any prior credibility i assumed you had to comprehend very basic numbers.
how many starts has your deity tyrod won the last 2 years? would you be surprised to realize it's just 1 more than lock at 2 (philly as you pointed out and the rousing 14-7 win vs washington).
was tyrod's 1 extra win worth an extra year guaranteed to you?
It's amazing the point is going over your head so easily given the launch angle of your water skis.
This isn't a Tyrod Taylor vs. Drew Lock question. Taylor has obvious durability issues and Drew Lock is abysmal.
If the Giants were as concerned about Jones's durability as Schoen expressed in Hard Knocks, the Giants should have pursued a more durable and better backup, even if that cost more money.
Minshew, Brissett, Darnold, Flacco, Trubisky, and Mariota have all exhibited a better combination of durability and ability than Taylor or Lock.
The response will be something around Minshew getting $25 million over two years, but if the Giants end up moving on from Jones and drafting a QB, they’re probably signing a backup to a similar contract that Minshew would be on for next year.
This is just the latest chapter in LI's novella What Other Choice Did They Have?: How The Giants Rationalized Sucking at Quarterback
Quote:
In comment 16572043 bigbluewillrise said:
Quote:
In comment 16572032 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 16571964 bigbluewillrise said:
Quote:
In comment 16571957 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16571955 bigbluewillrise said:
Quote:
shame for the regimes draft picks, but there are better players on the roster than them for the big 9 OL spots.
McKethan, probably. Ezeudu? What were you watching?
he looked bad at T. hes not a T.
i think he had a shot at being a good G, but he never settled in at one position and now hes going to get cut or have to be given a roster scholarship.
i watched every snap.
Were you wearing an eye patch? Do you not know his number? Have you fallen and can't get up? Good fucking Christ you half wit, Ezeudu was dominant at LT. Lock stepped BACK in the pocket to a guy he had ridden outside and I'm guessing that's what your barely functioning eyes register as game long success. Big blue may rise, let's hope you don't tomorrow or you lose power so we don't have to read your inane ramblings. Have a good night you nincompoop.
I.laughed out loud reading this!
He was bad.
Just got fun got on Twitter and checked the thoughts of many people who cover this team for a living almost all mentioned ezedeu lowlight on the line so yeah not just me. He was categorically bad.
1,000 people saying the same stupid thing doesn't make it right. I guess they need to start teaching that in school.
Ezudu was textbook. Learn something.
Remind me. Weren't you the one who said yesterday that Gray was garbage and you couldn't wait till he got cut?
Yup.
Actually I said it was unfair but Grey showed me nothing last season, and I wanted the other guys to knock him off the roster. And guess what - Grey said the exact same thing in his press conference - said last year wasn't him and wanted to show the real Eric Grey. And the other guys showed great too. I couldn't have asked for better.
And your point is?
This is just the latest chapter in LI's novella What Other Choice Did They Have?: How The Giants Rationalized Sucking at Quarterback
The real reason why Flacco, Brissett, Minshew, etc weren’t signed is fairly obvious and it’s not about the money.
A team that gave Drew Lock $5 million wasn’t concerned about getting someone cheap.
Quote:
AJ, you're trying to make sense of the nonsensical.
This is just the latest chapter in LI's novella What Other Choice Did They Have?: How The Giants Rationalized Sucking at Quarterback
The real reason why Flacco, Brissett, Minshew, etc weren’t signed is fairly obvious and it’s not about the money.
A team that gave Drew Lock $5 million wasn’t concerned about getting someone cheap.
✅