Answer now or please STFU
I keep hearing - if JJM, Penix or Nix turn out to be franchise QBs, then Schoen really fked up.
But- he could have only drafted one (and then would not have Nabers).
So, instead of whining about the 3 QBs he should have taken - go on record now-
WHICH QB SHOULD THE GIANTS HAVE DRAFTED
(And no Caleb, Daniel’s for Maye)
we just got a better look at it than any fanbase ever has with HK. we saw daboll drilling all the QBs on terminology, how they'd make sight adjustments, on their thought process, their favorite plays, and just generally processing information. we saw like 2 minutes each of what were hours and hours of that. that's the how.
we can all state our preferences as we have in this thread based on what we see, but the off field is obviously foreign to us. We dont see 99.9% of what they see and even if we did we arent qualified to understand it. thanks to HK we got to see all their designations on the final draft picks board so we will have our chance to see how they did.
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
I said prior to the draft that if they couldn’t swing the trade with NE for Maye, they should consider swapping #6 for Minny’s 2 1st rounders. I think Nabers is going to be a stud, but getting 2 starters would have been the better play, IMO.
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In comment 16573790 section125 said:
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In comment 16573785 Orville Redenbacher said:
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that the Giants have hired professionals to make decisions and fan opinions are irrelevant next to the “experts.”
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
I think that is reasonable. Everyone should be allowed to trust as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. We need to be more respectful of that around here if people don’t share that.
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
What was “exposed “ on Hard Knocks?
I’ve actually answered this question for you already. If you don’t even bother to remember conversations you’ve had it isn’t my job to remind you
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
I said prior to the draft that if they couldn’t swing the trade with NE for Maye, they should consider swapping #6 for Minny’s 2 1st rounders. I think Nabers is going to be a stud, but getting 2 starters would have been the better play, IMO.
I agree, and I thought pound for pound Nabers pretty close to MHJr as the best player in the draft, regardless of position.
But resetting the clock with a red chip quarterback and a play making receiver in his own right would have been an excellent outcome.
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In comment 16573913 Orville Redenbacher said:
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In comment 16573790 section125 said:
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In comment 16573785 Orville Redenbacher said:
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that the Giants have hired professionals to make decisions and fan opinions are irrelevant next to the “experts.”
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
I think that is reasonable. Everyone should be allowed to trust as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. We need to be more respectful of that around here if people don’t share that.
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
What was “exposed “ on Hard Knocks?
I’ve actually answered this question for you already. If you don’t even bother to remember conversations you’ve had it isn’t my job to remind you
Great response and if you think that a heavily edited content or us seeing less then 1% of the FO’s an actual decision making process shows them to be exposed….then you were obviously dropped on your head as a child
Keep going beck to board members have greater knowledge of the game than an NFL front office😂😂😂
Que the predicable schill for the front office response
If Daboll thinks he can work with any QB he's welcome to start doing that any time.
I wonder if there is a scenario where Schoen goes but Daboll stays.
I agree.
When Daboll was brought in I thought he would get his guy to delvelop.
Seems crazy to fire him before he gets the chance, as that seems to among his real strengths.
But if DJ does not light it up - they HAVE to get that guy in 2025…right?
It just felt like to me they were never truly serious about replacing Jones. Doing their due diligence but were never actually going to pull that trigger.
Instead “they got a weapon for Daniel” which pissed me off. How about a better team and not “helping Daniel”.
I hope I’m wrong and they are right.
Interesting that the Giants spent more time with JJ than any other team and yet didn't pick him. I think that tells us they probably liked him, but being that he is 21 and they are projecting out him at 22/23, there must have been enough red flags (or rather just job preservation till he is ready in 2 years) that they passed.
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I wanted the Giants to trade back and pick Bowers, and then trade up for Nix.
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
I said prior to the draft that if they couldn’t swing the trade with NE for Maye, they should consider swapping #6 for Minny’s 2 1st rounders. I think Nabers is going to be a stud, but getting 2 starters would have been the better play, IMO.
Nabers can be All Pro, a top 5 WR in the NFL, and maybe even more... you don't pass on that. Nabers is really already showing us he is beyond stud.
(That said, I was high on JJ but didn't watch enough to really say.) I hope we didn't "blow" this pick in the sense of a Franchise QB e.g. JJM being there for us to take.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
I am happy to have Nabers, is the best I can put it.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
What late round QB did the Patriots or GB draft, develop and trade or have work out?
Brady? is he the only one?
No one brings in late round QB's as competition for their starter - and neither GB nor NE did.
In fact, no one with a $40M starter brings in "competition" for their starter. Backup is different, but no GM intentionally creates competition with a high priced starter.
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...wasn't necessarily passing on those 'top' QBs, it's passing on ANY QBs for years. The Patriots and GB have the right idea, draft a late round QB nearly every year, develop them, then they either work out or get traded for more assets /earlier round draft picks.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
What late round QB did the Patriots or GB draft, develop and trade or have work out?
Brady? is he the only one?
No one brings in late round QB's as competition for their starter - and neither GB nor NE did.
In fact, no one with a $40M starter brings in "competition" for their starter. Backup is different, but no GM intentionally creates competition with a high priced starter.
this is correct - the pats did do a good job constantly adding QB talent behind brady with brissett, cassell, jimmy g, etc. even when they thought they had something with mac jones i think they still took zappe the next year.
but even with all that and the greatest HC of the modern era, the biggest reason he isnt there any more is because he couldnt figure out the QB beyond brady. picking qbs late didnt save him from getting knocked out after getting the starting qbs wrong with cam/mac jones.
p.s.--Interesting thing about the Falcons is that they've selected favorites of mine in each of the past four drafts: Kyle Pitts, Drake London, Bijan Robinson, Michael Penix!
If Daboll thinks he can work with any QB he's welcome to start doing that any time.
I was referring to the 2024 draft class. Now you're of the opinion Jones could be good if Daboll wasn't holding him back? I did not see that coming.
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...wasn't necessarily passing on those 'top' QBs, it's passing on ANY QBs for years. The Patriots and GB have the right idea, draft a late round QB nearly every year, develop them, then they either work out or get traded for more assets /earlier round draft picks.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
What late round QB did the Patriots or GB draft, develop and trade or have work out?
Brady? is he the only one?
No one brings in late round QB's as competition for their starter - and neither GB nor NE did.
In fact, no one with a $40M starter brings in "competition" for their starter. Backup is different, but no GM intentionally creates competition with a high priced starter.
Didn’t the Patriots get multiple firsts for Matt Cassell?
Coming off of a Super Bowl they drafted Jimmy G in round 2. They took Brissett in round 3 and traded him for Dorsett who was coming off a decent year as a #3 option. Brissett is still in the league 8 years later. The Patriots drafted 10 QBs between the time they drafted Brady and Brady left. The Giants have drafted zero.
If you look at the Patriots QB draft history it's littered with wasted picks and most fans wonder "what could have been" (even with 6 SB's) if they did not waste them on the following:
4th round pick on Rohan Davey
3rd round pick on Kevin O'Connell
3rd round pick on Ryan Mallett
2nd round pick on Jimmy Garoppolo (even though they get the 2nd back in a trade)
3rd round pick on Jacoby Brissett (who they traded for more useless Phillip Dorsett)
4th round pick on Jarrett Stidham
4th round pick on Bailey Zappe
these are all picks you need to try and get contributions from in the near term. Mac Jones turned out to be the wrong guy, but the right idea. As is Drake Maye (the right idea).
5th round and later, sure, roll the dice and teams do, but these picks were all bad philosophical decisions and not because of how they turned out.
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These past two years the Giants have passed for a total of 32 TDs and had a NY/A barely above 5 (league average in 2023 was over 6).
If Daboll thinks he can work with any QB he's welcome to start doing that any time.
I was referring to the 2024 draft class. Now you're of the opinion Jones could be good if Daboll wasn't holding him back? I did not see that coming.
I am not. I'm not impressed with anything Daboll and Schoen have done.
Penix looked pretty good. What stood out is he was decisive. The ball came out fast and accurately. It was the exact opposite of watching Lock on Thursday.
If you look at the Patriots QB draft history it's littered with wasted picks and most fans wonder "what could have been" (even with 6 SB's) if they did not waste them on the following:
4th round pick on Rohan Davey
3rd round pick on Kevin O'Connell
3rd round pick on Ryan Mallett
2nd round pick on Jimmy Garoppolo (even though they get the 2nd back in a trade)
3rd round pick on Jacoby Brissett (who they traded for more useless Phillip Dorsett)
4th round pick on Jarrett Stidham
4th round pick on Bailey Zappe
these are all picks you need to try and get contributions from in the near term. Mac Jones turned out to be the wrong guy, but the right idea. As is Drake Maye (the right idea).
5th round and later, sure, roll the dice and teams do, but these picks were all bad philosophical decisions and not because of how they turned out.
The point is, the Patriots weren’t bringing in competition no matter what round they took a QB in, yet still took QBs.
Why would Green Bay or New England have a competition with Rodgers and Brady?
A team without a QB of that caliber should be bringing in late round QBs if nothing more than to find a competent backup but to throw a dart on the wall and see if they can find someone who can push their starter without using major resources.
I do think all three of them are likely to be better than Jones though.
Then I’m a loser too.
Wasn’t rooting for losses but hoping they could get their QB of choice so, was ok if it happened
Apparently they liked, at most, three
Then I’m a loser too.
Wasn’t rooting for losses but hoping they could get their QB of choice so, I felt it was good if it happened
Apparently they liked, at most, three QBs
Maybe we are best off with Nabers?
But beware, if he sucks, people might remember
And none of them were guys I would have taken over Nabers
And the vast majority here do not post “look at how smart I am” posts
But those who do are quite annoying. I am quite certain they do not post to admit the myriad times they are wrong.
Nabers
6 QBs in the first 12 picks. I don’t think we’ve ever seen that. Or will we again
I was very scared of Penix due to the injury history. To me it did not make sense to trade one banged up QB for another, who is probably less mobile, behind a crap line.
All that being said, I was hoping they were going to be able to get a WR or QB and trade back into RD one to get the other. I think some poster mentioned possibly getting Nabers and trading back into the RD to get Penix, but Atlanta jumped up to take him.
All that being said, I was not super enamored with any of the QB's.
On another note, some of you are really reading too far into the HK's content. They covered like five months of time with six 45-minute episodes, much of which had families in them. We only saw what the producers wanted us to see.
Bo Nix will be a good QB, I was and am confident.
Bingo. Teams are going to compete for the most part, so laying down against the Pats and Packers wasn’t going to happen. (The Packers win devastated their chances of being top 3.) But I’ll never understand the need to play Tyrod Taylor over Tommy Cutlets against the Eagles. It literally made zero sense because Taylor was never coming back to the Giants. With our luck, Tommy would’ve won that game too.