Answer now or please STFU
I keep hearing - if JJM, Penix or Nix turn out to be franchise QBs, then Schoen really fked up.
But- he could have only drafted one (and then would not have Nabers).
So, instead of whining about the 3 QBs he should have taken - go on record now-
WHICH QB SHOULD THE GIANTS HAVE DRAFTED
(And no Caleb, Daniel’s for Maye)
I wanted the Giants not to draft a QB this year.
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
They just didn't like him.
Not a member of the DJFC, just didn’t think any one of the 2nd tier QBs were top 10 or even sure fire first round prospects.
Nabers looking like Hakeem Nicks 2.0, which would be a fine use of the 6th overall pick.
So, I could have lived with Schoen taking the lottery risk for Nix or McCarthy.
Penix was/is a very talented thrower, but I think he's too one dimensional. In today's game, I think a dual threat is the better solution.
Happy with Nabers.
Penix was picked 8th
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...if the Giants traded down.
Penix was picked 8th
No shit, I had no way of knowing that before the draft.
Before the draft I wanted Penix, but not at #6.
Best option after is a blue chip prospect in a wide receiver. I don't hate the Nabers pick at all, though. I actually feel it's the next best pick they could have made.
it was some kind of high character or leadership fit designation. lassiter had it as well and he was their clear target in round 2.
i dont find it too surprising the other qbs didnt have it btw - we know they passed on the other 3 but both daniels and caleb did have some personality questions. daniels' asu teammates had a very different take on him than lsu.
I don’t think any of the QBs will be great even the top 3. Williams and Daniels looked good today but it doesn’t change my opinion.
We seem to have gotten a great player be happy with that.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
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But the other three? All we heard about was what a great guy McCarthy is, and living out here and following the Pac-12 you couldn't find a bad word about either Penix or Nix. And now Penix sounds like a ten year very every time he talks, and Nix was thought highly enough of by as critical a QB coach as there is in Payton.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
Am still insanely excited to watch Nabers play
Happy with Nabers.
That sums up how I felt as well. Penix and Nix I thought would be a case of taking Day 2 QB’s at 6.
They just didn't like him.
Red appears to be those with recent injuries not that they weren’t worried about the injuries. Latu didn’t have it either and he was medically retired at one point. They also supposedly did like McKinstry in Round 2. What that tells me is that the Giants feel that their ranking system adequately places guys with an injury history and they don’t also label the player.
I'm guessing the league was fine with Penix's health.
Never got the love for Nix - he was not good until he played with superior talent in a conference that played zero defense. He was not a good player in the SEC
Penix could throw but how many times did he just throw it up and have his WR get it. He can’t move enough and the Giants OL has proven you need to move back there
JJM to me just seemed like a guy who was riding along with a great OL, tremendous defense and a elite HC
I wanted the Giants to get A WR. I go into every season optimistic regardless
Can JJM or Nix be successful championship calibre quarterbacks in the NFL despite their lesser grade? Of course. Brock Purdy is a successful quarterback. As was Tom Brady. And Drew Brees. And Joe Montana. And Johnny Unitas. But they can also be championship busts. Like Sam Darnold. And Josh Rosen. And Zach Wilson. And Trey Lance. And Tim Couch. And Rick Mirer. And Heath Schuler. And Art Schlichter. And JaMarcus Russell. And Ryan Leaf. So there has to be significant consideration given to the risk/reward proposition of a prospect. To me, a Milton or a Pratt in the sixth round was a considerably better risk/reward proposition than either Nix or JJM.
And Milton looked just as good as JJM did in the first preseason game. Meaning absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things given the scrubs and vanilla schemes they were playing against.
Who I do not know....I just felt the QBs were over hyped.
Rarely, drafted QBs become franchise QBs....and this year there were 6.?????
Red Flags to me
So, I could have lived with Schoen taking the lottery risk for Nix or McCarthy.
Penix was/is a very talented thrower, but I think he's too one dimensional. In today's game, I think a dual threat is the better solution.
Pretty much this. I was high on Penix, but his injury history scared me off. Nix is a perfect system QB IMO. He fits Sean Payton's offense like a glove. I don't think it's a coincidence that he got drafted by that team. That leaves JJM. I could've lived with the NYG drafting JJM for the reason stated above, but I don't think Schoen & Daboll did that, then their proverbial die would have been cast. Once they've hitched their wagon to a QB prospect in the early first round, their countdown will truly begin IMO. I don't think they were ready to do that with JJM because they would have been judged by his success/failure.
JJMc seemed a bit on the edge to me, too tightly wound. He looks good, but every pass he threw was at 100%. Very mechanical.
Penix injuries did give me pause and while he has a canon arm, he did not do well in the National Champ Game, lots of missed passes.
I don't push for many QB's. Since '18, Young and Allen were my two favorites.
I would say let's not go overboard on plays made in the preseason by rookie QB's- especially guys coming in during the late 3rd and 4th quarters...
Right now all that matters is Nabers seems like he could Pro Bowl worthy right off the bat..
If that's what this thread is about, then news flash... we are just fans. As fans, we don't have access to team scouting reports, player interviews and medicals... and we're not the ones who are paid the big bucks to get it right. That's Joe Schoen's job.
If one of the 3 QBs who were available at 6 becomes a big-time, franchise QB, then yes, Schoen should be held accountable... regardless of which player this fan would have chosen.
Due to positional importance, I would have only taken Williams or Maye ahead of any of the three.
Something I did agree on with Gettleman, he said if you have a first round grade on a QB, you love the QB.
The threshold was simple for me, if NYG had a first round grade on QB they should have taken them at six. So, that could have been JJM, Penix or Nix, I didn't care.
And I know what the rebuttal will be? That's how you end up with Daniel Jones. I was fine with the Jones pick. The time to move off him was after 2021 though. Either pick up the option or trade him after 2021. Instead, they took a half measure and ended up here.
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In comment 16573688 Go Terps said:
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But the other three? All we heard about was what a great guy McCarthy is, and living out here and following the Pac-12 you couldn't find a bad word about either Penix or Nix. And now Penix sounds like a ten year very every time he talks, and Nix was thought highly enough of by as critical a QB coach as there is in Payton.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
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In comment 16573688 Go Terps said:
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But the other three? All we heard about was what a great guy McCarthy is, and living out here and following the Pac-12 you couldn't find a bad word about either Penix or Nix. And now Penix sounds like a ten year very every time he talks, and Nix was thought highly enough of by as critical a QB coach as there is in Payton.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
Hit submit too early by accident on that last post but I very much agree with you on the QB situation this offseason.
I think it’s very convenient that we loved the unattainable QBs, and apparently had not shred of real interest on the next tier of guys available to us. It’s like Schoen has gotten some kind of pass because “he tried” to get Maye but he failed in doing so. And apparently after heavily courting pretty much every first round QB, we decided none of the others presented an upgrade.
I was on record as wanting McCarthy for what it’s worth. I do think Nabers will be a star, but Jones may get Schoen and Daboll canned before that matters. We didn’t have much a of a QB room to begin with and whatever plan they had hoped to execute for this offseason netted them a switch of Tyrod for Drew Lock. In other words, the QB room got worse.
If any of the 3 QBs taken after us flash a CJ Stroud type rookie year, what exactly do Schoen and Dabes tell us? Assuming Jones remains Jones.
If any of the 3 QBs taken after us flash a CJ Stroud type rookie year, what exactly do Schoen and Dabes tell us? Assuming Jones remains Jones.
It doesn't tell us anything except that those QBs are in a different situation than if they were with the Giants and would be without Nabers.
Jones is going to remain Jones. How could it be anything different? But he will be ok if he starts throwing some deep balls vs dump offs every passing attempt. It will be different if the line plays anything like it did vs the Lions in the scrimmages.
I don't see how the stars will be more aligned for QB next April as opposed to what it was this year. Why isn't Daboll being utilized to develop high prospect QBs?
With that said, I don't doubt that Daboll fucking loves Nabers. And as others have alluded to, he may think he can work with any QB.
Something I did agree on with Gettleman, he said if you have a first round grade on a QB, you love the QB.
The threshold was simple for me, if NYG had a first round grade on QB they should have taken them at six. So, that could have been JJM, Penix or Nix, I didn't care.
And I know what the rebuttal will be? That's how you end up with Daniel Jones. I was fine with the Jones pick. The time to move off him was after 2021 though. Either pick up the option or trade him after 2021. Instead, they took a half measure and ended up here.
We can't solve the DJ problem with another DJ though and that is the risk of selecting a JJM or Nix. A guy who is anointed but who likely doesn't have the ceiling to warrant such a scholarship. And then having middling success so as to get stuck with mediocrity year after year. Remember, Trubisky threw for six TDs in a game. Bortles and Tannehill led their teams to AFC Championship games. And Mariota, Osweiler and DJ won playoff games. These are quarterback hell traps.
Yes, fast failure is the right strategy and you are right, after 2021 was the precise moment to move on from DJ. But that is ignoring the opportunity cost of making the wrong selection in the first place. You obviously can't view the parallel universe of selecting Josh Allen instead of DJ in 2019 and the obvious butterfly effect in doing so, but we would have absolutely then taken Justin Herbert in 2020. And then, because we would not have been so fixated maybe on getting a "weapon for Daniel" in 2021, we might have selected Micah Parsons instead of trading back for Kadarius Toney and ultimately, Evan Neal. Brian Burns and KT appear to have finally solidified the two Edges, but we are still drowning in the river Styx at quarterback.
Clearly this is all very hypothetical, but you get the point. Yes, hitting on a Mahomes, Allen or Burrow in the top ten is nirvana and sets up a decade or more of championship calibre football. But a wrong selection at quarterback with a top ten pick is infinitely worse than punting on the position for another round or another day.
More than happy with Nabers but we still need a QB next year.
I wanted Schoen to go after a player he and Daboll had conviction on was a legit franchise QB they could win a SB with. Sounds like he tried to do that with Maye if we believe there was no gamesmanship and the talks with the Pats were to move up for Maye. He could have taken any of Nix, Penix or JJM. Who am I to say he should have?
I don't have enough knowledge of these QB's (and really none of us does except maybe Sy) to go "on record" and say player x was my guy. I know that's kind of fence sitting, but I just don't like my track record. lol.
IE Nabers must be the right because the professionals made it and they had conviction and as the poster put it everyone else should STFU.
But if you want to be that kind of annoying person carrying around largely useless additions to a conversation then you must also accept that if those experts prove wrong they deserve criticism.
QB is the most important position on the field if we missed a guy that could have been our future to continue to trot out our below average, off injured QB fans deserve to criticize. We aren’t paid to do this, but many of us do pay to support it.
Sorry if you’d rather worship false idols but some of us just want people to perform well to be supportive as fans. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to get or why you are so angry and defensive about people being held accountable
IE Nabers must be the right because the professionals made it and they had conviction and as the poster put it everyone else should STFU.
But if you want to be that kind of annoying person carrying around largely useless additions to a conversation then you must also accept that if those experts prove wrong they deserve criticism.
QB is the most important position on the field if we missed a guy that could have been our future to continue to trot out our below average, off injured QB fans deserve to criticize. We aren’t paid to do this, but many of us do pay to support it.
Sorry if you’d rather worship false idols but some of us just want people to perform well to be supportive as fans. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to get or why you are so angry and defensive about people being held accountable
Excellent mumbo jumbo POV!
I'm guessing the league was fine with Penix's health.
Didn’t something come out during the combine that teams were fine by his medical checks?
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really as a way to avoid any accountability for the decision making because they don’t like people criticizing the team.
IE Nabers must be the right because the professionals made it and they had conviction and as the poster put it everyone else should STFU.
But if you want to be that kind of annoying person carrying around largely useless additions to a conversation then you must also accept that if those experts prove wrong they deserve criticism.
QB is the most important position on the field if we missed a guy that could have been our future to continue to trot out our below average, off injured QB fans deserve to criticize. We aren’t paid to do this, but many of us do pay to support it.
Sorry if you’d rather worship false idols but some of us just want people to perform well to be supportive as fans. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to get or why you are so angry and defensive about people being held accountable
Excellent mumbo jumbo POV!
So you give someone a non-response and accuse them of mumbo jumbo? I’m sorry people like you have their heads too far up the Giants FO’s bums they can’t see what it looks like to breath the free air
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In comment 16573774 Orville Redenbacher said:
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really as a way to avoid any accountability for the decision making because they don’t like people criticizing the team.
IE Nabers must be the right because the professionals made it and they had conviction and as the poster put it everyone else should STFU.
But if you want to be that kind of annoying person carrying around largely useless additions to a conversation then you must also accept that if those experts prove wrong they deserve criticism.
QB is the most important position on the field if we missed a guy that could have been our future to continue to trot out our below average, off injured QB fans deserve to criticize. We aren’t paid to do this, but many of us do pay to support it.
Sorry if you’d rather worship false idols but some of us just want people to perform well to be supportive as fans. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to get or why you are so angry and defensive about people being held accountable
Excellent mumbo jumbo POV!
So you give someone a non-response and accuse them of mumbo jumbo? I’m sorry people like you have their heads too far up the Giants FO’s bums they can’t see what it looks like to breath the free air
Re-read your post. Then explain to me what your point is. It is mumbo jumbo - a confusing mass of words. I haven't a clue as to what you are saying.
What I am saying is I am not qualified to say "they should have taken player x instead" because *I* don't have enough knowledge to know.
I am NOT saying Nabers was the right pick simply because Schoen made it. lol. If Nabers busts and Jones doesn't play better with better talent around him and the Giants are picking top 10 again in 2025, I think Schoen and Daboll's jobs should be on the line.
I am just not arrogant enough to believe my opinion matters enough to "go on record" like it's a threat.
You and everyone else in the US (I will not include our UK brethren in here for reasons I won't mention) are of course free to opine on what you would do and denigrate the picks that were made and people who made them all you want.
I choose not to and I do think almost all the fans are pretty clueless. So who gives a shit who goes "on record"?
does that clarify it or will we get another word salad?
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
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...IE Nabers must be the right because the professionals made it and they had conviction and as the poster put it everyone else should STFU. ..
What I am saying is I am not qualified to say "they should have taken player x instead" because *I* don't have enough knowledge to know.
I am NOT saying Nabers was the right pick simply because Schoen made it. lol. If Nabers busts and Jones doesn't play better with better talent around him and the Giants are picking top 10 again in 2025, I think Schoen and Daboll's jobs should be on the line.
I am just not arrogant enough to believe my opinion matters enough to "go on record" like it's a threat.
You and everyone else in the US (I will not include our UK brethren in here for reasons I won't mention) are of course free to opine on what you would do and denigrate the picks that were made and people who made them all you want.
I choose not to and I do think almost all the fans are pretty clueless. So who gives a shit who goes "on record"?
does that clarify it or will we get another word salad?
I wasn’t at all talking to you. I think this go on record stuff is dumb. The Giants should be held accountable for being right or wrong regardless of people’s draft prognostications
But very happy with Nabers, and pleasantly surprised to hear how well Jones is doing in training camp.
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
You lost all credibility with “this bozo”.
If I had to choose between those 3 QBs at 6 I would have taken JJ. To me the WR selection had more value.
I think that McCarthy will be the best QB of the draft.
His greatest asset was also a liability.
JJM is only 21. You have to project his upside and he may not be ready to start for a year.
The Giants pay scouts, analysts and front office personnel a lot of money to make these decisions. They need to get it right. Time will tell if they did.
The “tell me who you wanted right now or STFU” stuff sounds like an angry 6 year old throwing a tantrum on the floor. Delete this and stop embarrassing yourself.
Admittedly, both a selfish and futile attempt.
Do you have a Plan B?
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
i disagree with the ny stuff being foolishness - just look across town at the foolishness they've suffered from sanchez through wilson.
i personally dont tie QB decisions to schoen as much as daboll. he is the QB expert. either he is asserting that expertise or he is a passenger who will fail. that's why he was clearly the one leading the QB interviews.
Do you have a Plan B?
Unfortunately, no.
Do you have a Plan B?
Unfortunately, no.
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Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
i disagree with the ny stuff being foolishness - just look across town at the foolishness they've suffered from sanchez through wilson.
i personally dont tie QB decisions to schoen as much as daboll. he is the QB expert. either he is asserting that expertise or he is a passenger who will fail. that's why he was clearly the one leading the QB interviews.
GT is the one spouting foolishness. With QBs failing left and right, perhaps a different scouting method on drafting QBs is warranted.
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that the Giants have hired professionals to make decisions and fan opinions are irrelevant next to the “experts.”
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
I think that is reasonable. Everyone should be allowed to trust as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. We need to be more respectful of that around here if people don’t share that.
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
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In comment 16573785 Orville Redenbacher said:
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that the Giants have hired professionals to make decisions and fan opinions are irrelevant next to the “experts.”
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
I think that is reasonable. Everyone should be allowed to trust as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. We need to be more respectful of that around here if people don’t share that.
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
What was “exposed “ on Hard Knocks?
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
Maybe it is you that should step back. I don't "revere" the FO and haven't a clue where that comes from. That I believe the FO knows better than 99% of BBI is simply the fact that if all the BBIers were that good, they'd be in the business scouting or coaching. Some have coached and have a better eye than I do, obviously.
Not sure what you saw on Hard Knocks but that is a wild take to believe BBIers know more than the pros. Some throw a lot against the wall and some of it sticks, true. Lot of smart people here whose opinions I do respect. Some are clowns and one trick ponies.
But since we beat that horse to death, I will leave it there.
We've seen proof of that with the tennants.
I wasn’t against taking a QB. Barring one or nearly miraculous developments (DJ staying healthy and raising his game; Lock improving dramatically; DeVito becoming a starting-caliber QB), they’re going to need one after this season. They know that. Please, please not Dak. I just didn’t want any of them enough to pay the price to get them. Apparently the Giants felt the same way.
I might have gone for a developmental QB in the middle rounds but they have too many needs. And apparently they like DeVito so he’s their developmental prospect.
Sorry, not allowed to have that opinion....
I wonder if there is a scenario where Schoen goes but Daboll stays.
we just got a better look at it than any fanbase ever has with HK. we saw daboll drilling all the QBs on terminology, how they'd make sight adjustments, on their thought process, their favorite plays, and just generally processing information. we saw like 2 minutes each of what were hours and hours of that. that's the how.
we can all state our preferences as we have in this thread based on what we see, but the off field is obviously foreign to us. We dont see 99.9% of what they see and even if we did we arent qualified to understand it. thanks to HK we got to see all their designations on the final draft picks board so we will have our chance to see how they did.
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
I said prior to the draft that if they couldn’t swing the trade with NE for Maye, they should consider swapping #6 for Minny’s 2 1st rounders. I think Nabers is going to be a stud, but getting 2 starters would have been the better play, IMO.
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In comment 16573790 section125 said:
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In comment 16573785 Orville Redenbacher said:
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that the Giants have hired professionals to make decisions and fan opinions are irrelevant next to the “experts.”
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
I think that is reasonable. Everyone should be allowed to trust as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. We need to be more respectful of that around here if people don’t share that.
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
What was “exposed “ on Hard Knocks?
I’ve actually answered this question for you already. If you don’t even bother to remember conversations you’ve had it isn’t my job to remind you
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
I said prior to the draft that if they couldn’t swing the trade with NE for Maye, they should consider swapping #6 for Minny’s 2 1st rounders. I think Nabers is going to be a stud, but getting 2 starters would have been the better play, IMO.
I agree, and I thought pound for pound Nabers pretty close to MHJr as the best player in the draft, regardless of position.
But resetting the clock with a red chip quarterback and a play making receiver in his own right would have been an excellent outcome.
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In comment 16573913 Orville Redenbacher said:
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In comment 16573790 section125 said:
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In comment 16573785 Orville Redenbacher said:
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that the Giants have hired professionals to make decisions and fan opinions are irrelevant next to the “experts.”
Then those professionals should get things right and if not be held accountable.
Not complicated. This bozo thinks fans need to be smarter than the professionals or they have no right to criticize. Then you have people like yourself on the other side acting like the Giants should be trusted when they haven’t earned that trust.
A lot of poor logic, no mumbo jumbo
That was a clearer post, thank you.
About me, you are semi-right. I do trust them a hell of a lot more than the couch potatoes(means all of us) posting their opinions as fact. Some posters are one trick ponies and cannot see the forest because of the trees, especially on QB. Most of us, probably vast majority, do not think highly of Jones. However, getting a QB in the 1st round to take a QB is stupid especially when a guy like Nabers is there.
I think that is reasonable. Everyone should be allowed to trust as much or as little as they feel comfortable with. We need to be more respectful of that around here if people don’t share that.
Where we disagree is calling people couch potatoes because they aren’t football professionals. A lot of people can be successful in careers leaning on analytical abilities that would make their inferences better than even average performers in the NFL.
I don’t know what is so hard to understand about that, these people aren’t of any remote level of genius. They exposed themselves on hard knocks. People on BBI are certainly capable of putting in better thought, you should respect people’s beliefs on that not talk down to them because you revere the Giants front office more than them
What was “exposed “ on Hard Knocks?
I’ve actually answered this question for you already. If you don’t even bother to remember conversations you’ve had it isn’t my job to remind you
Great response and if you think that a heavily edited content or us seeing less then 1% of the FO’s an actual decision making process shows them to be exposed….then you were obviously dropped on your head as a child
Keep going beck to board members have greater knowledge of the game than an NFL front office😂😂😂
Que the predicable schill for the front office response
If Daboll thinks he can work with any QB he's welcome to start doing that any time.
I wonder if there is a scenario where Schoen goes but Daboll stays.
I agree.
When Daboll was brought in I thought he would get his guy to delvelop.
Seems crazy to fire him before he gets the chance, as that seems to among his real strengths.
But if DJ does not light it up - they HAVE to get that guy in 2025…right?
It just felt like to me they were never truly serious about replacing Jones. Doing their due diligence but were never actually going to pull that trigger.
Instead “they got a weapon for Daniel” which pissed me off. How about a better team and not “helping Daniel”.
I hope I’m wrong and they are right.
Interesting that the Giants spent more time with JJ than any other team and yet didn't pick him. I think that tells us they probably liked him, but being that he is 21 and they are projecting out him at 22/23, there must have been enough red flags (or rather just job preservation till he is ready in 2 years) that they passed.
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I wanted the Giants to trade back and pick Bowers, and then trade up for Nix.
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
I said prior to the draft that if they couldn’t swing the trade with NE for Maye, they should consider swapping #6 for Minny’s 2 1st rounders. I think Nabers is going to be a stud, but getting 2 starters would have been the better play, IMO.
Nabers can be All Pro, a top 5 WR in the NFL, and maybe even more... you don't pass on that. Nabers is really already showing us he is beyond stud.
(That said, I was high on JJ but didn't watch enough to really say.) I hope we didn't "blow" this pick in the sense of a Franchise QB e.g. JJM being there for us to take.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
I am happy to have Nabers, is the best I can put it.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
What late round QB did the Patriots or GB draft, develop and trade or have work out?
Brady? is he the only one?
No one brings in late round QB's as competition for their starter - and neither GB nor NE did.
In fact, no one with a $40M starter brings in "competition" for their starter. Backup is different, but no GM intentionally creates competition with a high priced starter.
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...wasn't necessarily passing on those 'top' QBs, it's passing on ANY QBs for years. The Patriots and GB have the right idea, draft a late round QB nearly every year, develop them, then they either work out or get traded for more assets /earlier round draft picks.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
What late round QB did the Patriots or GB draft, develop and trade or have work out?
Brady? is he the only one?
No one brings in late round QB's as competition for their starter - and neither GB nor NE did.
In fact, no one with a $40M starter brings in "competition" for their starter. Backup is different, but no GM intentionally creates competition with a high priced starter.
this is correct - the pats did do a good job constantly adding QB talent behind brady with brissett, cassell, jimmy g, etc. even when they thought they had something with mac jones i think they still took zappe the next year.
but even with all that and the greatest HC of the modern era, the biggest reason he isnt there any more is because he couldnt figure out the QB beyond brady. picking qbs late didnt save him from getting knocked out after getting the starting qbs wrong with cam/mac jones.
p.s.--Interesting thing about the Falcons is that they've selected favorites of mine in each of the past four drafts: Kyle Pitts, Drake London, Bijan Robinson, Michael Penix!
If Daboll thinks he can work with any QB he's welcome to start doing that any time.
I was referring to the 2024 draft class. Now you're of the opinion Jones could be good if Daboll wasn't holding him back? I did not see that coming.
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...wasn't necessarily passing on those 'top' QBs, it's passing on ANY QBs for years. The Patriots and GB have the right idea, draft a late round QB nearly every year, develop them, then they either work out or get traded for more assets /earlier round draft picks.
The Giants ignoring the QB position completely is reckless and irresponsible. I have no idea what they're doing with the position, and not having a viable backup is part of that confusion. Not wanting Jones to have ANY competition is another weird part.
Going into 2024 with an arguably worse QB situation than 2023 is crazy.
What late round QB did the Patriots or GB draft, develop and trade or have work out?
Brady? is he the only one?
No one brings in late round QB's as competition for their starter - and neither GB nor NE did.
In fact, no one with a $40M starter brings in "competition" for their starter. Backup is different, but no GM intentionally creates competition with a high priced starter.
Didn’t the Patriots get multiple firsts for Matt Cassell?
Coming off of a Super Bowl they drafted Jimmy G in round 2. They took Brissett in round 3 and traded him for Dorsett who was coming off a decent year as a #3 option. Brissett is still in the league 8 years later. The Patriots drafted 10 QBs between the time they drafted Brady and Brady left. The Giants have drafted zero.
If you look at the Patriots QB draft history it's littered with wasted picks and most fans wonder "what could have been" (even with 6 SB's) if they did not waste them on the following:
4th round pick on Rohan Davey
3rd round pick on Kevin O'Connell
3rd round pick on Ryan Mallett
2nd round pick on Jimmy Garoppolo (even though they get the 2nd back in a trade)
3rd round pick on Jacoby Brissett (who they traded for more useless Phillip Dorsett)
4th round pick on Jarrett Stidham
4th round pick on Bailey Zappe
these are all picks you need to try and get contributions from in the near term. Mac Jones turned out to be the wrong guy, but the right idea. As is Drake Maye (the right idea).
5th round and later, sure, roll the dice and teams do, but these picks were all bad philosophical decisions and not because of how they turned out.
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These past two years the Giants have passed for a total of 32 TDs and had a NY/A barely above 5 (league average in 2023 was over 6).
If Daboll thinks he can work with any QB he's welcome to start doing that any time.
I was referring to the 2024 draft class. Now you're of the opinion Jones could be good if Daboll wasn't holding him back? I did not see that coming.
I am not. I'm not impressed with anything Daboll and Schoen have done.
Penix looked pretty good. What stood out is he was decisive. The ball came out fast and accurately. It was the exact opposite of watching Lock on Thursday.
If you look at the Patriots QB draft history it's littered with wasted picks and most fans wonder "what could have been" (even with 6 SB's) if they did not waste them on the following:
4th round pick on Rohan Davey
3rd round pick on Kevin O'Connell
3rd round pick on Ryan Mallett
2nd round pick on Jimmy Garoppolo (even though they get the 2nd back in a trade)
3rd round pick on Jacoby Brissett (who they traded for more useless Phillip Dorsett)
4th round pick on Jarrett Stidham
4th round pick on Bailey Zappe
these are all picks you need to try and get contributions from in the near term. Mac Jones turned out to be the wrong guy, but the right idea. As is Drake Maye (the right idea).
5th round and later, sure, roll the dice and teams do, but these picks were all bad philosophical decisions and not because of how they turned out.
The point is, the Patriots weren’t bringing in competition no matter what round they took a QB in, yet still took QBs.
Why would Green Bay or New England have a competition with Rodgers and Brady?
A team without a QB of that caliber should be bringing in late round QBs if nothing more than to find a competent backup but to throw a dart on the wall and see if they can find someone who can push their starter without using major resources.
I do think all three of them are likely to be better than Jones though.
Then I’m a loser too.
Wasn’t rooting for losses but hoping they could get their QB of choice so, was ok if it happened
Apparently they liked, at most, three
Then I’m a loser too.
Wasn’t rooting for losses but hoping they could get their QB of choice so, I felt it was good if it happened
Apparently they liked, at most, three QBs
Maybe we are best off with Nabers?
But beware, if he sucks, people might remember
And none of them were guys I would have taken over Nabers
And the vast majority here do not post “look at how smart I am” posts
But those who do are quite annoying. I am quite certain they do not post to admit the myriad times they are wrong.
Nabers
6 QBs in the first 12 picks. I don’t think we’ve ever seen that. Or will we again
I was very scared of Penix due to the injury history. To me it did not make sense to trade one banged up QB for another, who is probably less mobile, behind a crap line.
All that being said, I was hoping they were going to be able to get a WR or QB and trade back into RD one to get the other. I think some poster mentioned possibly getting Nabers and trading back into the RD to get Penix, but Atlanta jumped up to take him.
All that being said, I was not super enamored with any of the QB's.
On another note, some of you are really reading too far into the HK's content. They covered like five months of time with six 45-minute episodes, much of which had families in them. We only saw what the producers wanted us to see.
Bo Nix will be a good QB, I was and am confident.
Bingo. Teams are going to compete for the most part, so laying down against the Pats and Packers wasn’t going to happen. (The Packers win devastated their chances of being top 3.) But I’ll never understand the need to play Tyrod Taylor over Tommy Cutlets against the Eagles. It literally made zero sense because Taylor was never coming back to the Giants. With our luck, Tommy would’ve won that game too.