Answer now or please STFU
I keep hearing - if JJM, Penix or Nix turn out to be franchise QBs, then Schoen really fked up.
But- he could have only drafted one (and then would not have Nabers).
So, instead of whining about the 3 QBs he should have taken - go on record now-
WHICH QB SHOULD THE GIANTS HAVE DRAFTED
(And no Caleb, Daniel’s for Maye)
I wanted the Giants not to draft a QB this year.
We never got an answer but in the 2nd to last Hard Knocks episode, it was strongly implied Minnesota offered the Giants picks 11 and 23.
In that scenario I would want them to pick Nic at 11 and Thomas at 23.
They just didn't like him.
Not a member of the DJFC, just didn’t think any one of the 2nd tier QBs were top 10 or even sure fire first round prospects.
Nabers looking like Hakeem Nicks 2.0, which would be a fine use of the 6th overall pick.
So, I could have lived with Schoen taking the lottery risk for Nix or McCarthy.
Penix was/is a very talented thrower, but I think he's too one dimensional. In today's game, I think a dual threat is the better solution.
Happy with Nabers.
Penix was picked 8th
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...if the Giants traded down.
Penix was picked 8th
No shit, I had no way of knowing that before the draft.
Before the draft I wanted Penix, but not at #6.
Best option after is a blue chip prospect in a wide receiver. I don't hate the Nabers pick at all, though. I actually feel it's the next best pick they could have made.
it was some kind of high character or leadership fit designation. lassiter had it as well and he was their clear target in round 2.
i dont find it too surprising the other qbs didnt have it btw - we know they passed on the other 3 but both daniels and caleb did have some personality questions. daniels' asu teammates had a very different take on him than lsu.
I don’t think any of the QBs will be great even the top 3. Williams and Daniels looked good today but it doesn’t change my opinion.
We seem to have gotten a great player be happy with that.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
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But the other three? All we heard about was what a great guy McCarthy is, and living out here and following the Pac-12 you couldn't find a bad word about either Penix or Nix. And now Penix sounds like a ten year very every time he talks, and Nix was thought highly enough of by as critical a QB coach as there is in Payton.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
Am still insanely excited to watch Nabers play
Happy with Nabers.
That sums up how I felt as well. Penix and Nix I thought would be a case of taking Day 2 QB’s at 6.
They just didn't like him.
Red appears to be those with recent injuries not that they weren’t worried about the injuries. Latu didn’t have it either and he was medically retired at one point. They also supposedly did like McKinstry in Round 2. What that tells me is that the Giants feel that their ranking system adequately places guys with an injury history and they don’t also label the player.
I'm guessing the league was fine with Penix's health.
Never got the love for Nix - he was not good until he played with superior talent in a conference that played zero defense. He was not a good player in the SEC
Penix could throw but how many times did he just throw it up and have his WR get it. He can’t move enough and the Giants OL has proven you need to move back there
JJM to me just seemed like a guy who was riding along with a great OL, tremendous defense and a elite HC
I wanted the Giants to get A WR. I go into every season optimistic regardless
Can JJM or Nix be successful championship calibre quarterbacks in the NFL despite their lesser grade? Of course. Brock Purdy is a successful quarterback. As was Tom Brady. And Drew Brees. And Joe Montana. And Johnny Unitas. But they can also be championship busts. Like Sam Darnold. And Josh Rosen. And Zach Wilson. And Trey Lance. And Tim Couch. And Rick Mirer. And Heath Schuler. And Art Schlichter. And JaMarcus Russell. And Ryan Leaf. So there has to be significant consideration given to the risk/reward proposition of a prospect. To me, a Milton or a Pratt in the sixth round was a considerably better risk/reward proposition than either Nix or JJM.
And Milton looked just as good as JJM did in the first preseason game. Meaning absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things given the scrubs and vanilla schemes they were playing against.
Who I do not know....I just felt the QBs were over hyped.
Rarely, drafted QBs become franchise QBs....and this year there were 6.?????
Red Flags to me
So, I could have lived with Schoen taking the lottery risk for Nix or McCarthy.
Penix was/is a very talented thrower, but I think he's too one dimensional. In today's game, I think a dual threat is the better solution.
Pretty much this. I was high on Penix, but his injury history scared me off. Nix is a perfect system QB IMO. He fits Sean Payton's offense like a glove. I don't think it's a coincidence that he got drafted by that team. That leaves JJM. I could've lived with the NYG drafting JJM for the reason stated above, but I don't think Schoen & Daboll did that, then their proverbial die would have been cast. Once they've hitched their wagon to a QB prospect in the early first round, their countdown will truly begin IMO. I don't think they were ready to do that with JJM because they would have been judged by his success/failure.
JJMc seemed a bit on the edge to me, too tightly wound. He looks good, but every pass he threw was at 100%. Very mechanical.
Penix injuries did give me pause and while he has a canon arm, he did not do well in the National Champ Game, lots of missed passes.
I don't push for many QB's. Since '18, Young and Allen were my two favorites.
I would say let's not go overboard on plays made in the preseason by rookie QB's- especially guys coming in during the late 3rd and 4th quarters...
Right now all that matters is Nabers seems like he could Pro Bowl worthy right off the bat..
If that's what this thread is about, then news flash... we are just fans. As fans, we don't have access to team scouting reports, player interviews and medicals... and we're not the ones who are paid the big bucks to get it right. That's Joe Schoen's job.
If one of the 3 QBs who were available at 6 becomes a big-time, franchise QB, then yes, Schoen should be held accountable... regardless of which player this fan would have chosen.
Due to positional importance, I would have only taken Williams or Maye ahead of any of the three.
Something I did agree on with Gettleman, he said if you have a first round grade on a QB, you love the QB.
The threshold was simple for me, if NYG had a first round grade on QB they should have taken them at six. So, that could have been JJM, Penix or Nix, I didn't care.
And I know what the rebuttal will be? That's how you end up with Daniel Jones. I was fine with the Jones pick. The time to move off him was after 2021 though. Either pick up the option or trade him after 2021. Instead, they took a half measure and ended up here.
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In comment 16573688 Go Terps said:
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But the other three? All we heard about was what a great guy McCarthy is, and living out here and following the Pac-12 you couldn't find a bad word about either Penix or Nix. And now Penix sounds like a ten year very every time he talks, and Nix was thought highly enough of by as critical a QB coach as there is in Payton.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
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In comment 16573688 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But the other three? All we heard about was what a great guy McCarthy is, and living out here and following the Pac-12 you couldn't find a bad word about either Penix or Nix. And now Penix sounds like a ten year very every time he talks, and Nix was thought highly enough of by as critical a QB coach as there is in Payton.
So fine, they didn't rate any of Penix/McCarthy/Nix as players. But Maye gets the high character tag and they don't? Ok...
from HK maye was clearly the guy who did the best with them "on the board" and he had all the same positive adjectives about his leadership and work ethic in his scouting reports.
also remember they obviously loved Nabers but he wasn't blue either. MHJ and Odunze were. they said they'd trade up for daniels too even though he wasnt blue. not being blue didnt mean undraftable even at 6 or in the top 3.
Yeah, but we also heard Schoen spout some foolishness about scouting QBs differently, and that NY was somehow tougher for QBs.
Can we agree that Schoen is past the "I was there when Josh Allen was drafted" seal of freshness? What are we doing here at QB? And I'm not just talking about Jones.
Hit submit too early by accident on that last post but I very much agree with you on the QB situation this offseason.
I think it’s very convenient that we loved the unattainable QBs, and apparently had not shred of real interest on the next tier of guys available to us. It’s like Schoen has gotten some kind of pass because “he tried” to get Maye but he failed in doing so. And apparently after heavily courting pretty much every first round QB, we decided none of the others presented an upgrade.
I was on record as wanting McCarthy for what it’s worth. I do think Nabers will be a star, but Jones may get Schoen and Daboll canned before that matters. We didn’t have much a of a QB room to begin with and whatever plan they had hoped to execute for this offseason netted them a switch of Tyrod for Drew Lock. In other words, the QB room got worse.
If any of the 3 QBs taken after us flash a CJ Stroud type rookie year, what exactly do Schoen and Dabes tell us? Assuming Jones remains Jones.
If any of the 3 QBs taken after us flash a CJ Stroud type rookie year, what exactly do Schoen and Dabes tell us? Assuming Jones remains Jones.
It doesn't tell us anything except that those QBs are in a different situation than if they were with the Giants and would be without Nabers.
Jones is going to remain Jones. How could it be anything different? But he will be ok if he starts throwing some deep balls vs dump offs every passing attempt. It will be different if the line plays anything like it did vs the Lions in the scrimmages.
I don't see how the stars will be more aligned for QB next April as opposed to what it was this year. Why isn't Daboll being utilized to develop high prospect QBs?
With that said, I don't doubt that Daboll fucking loves Nabers. And as others have alluded to, he may think he can work with any QB.
Something I did agree on with Gettleman, he said if you have a first round grade on a QB, you love the QB.
The threshold was simple for me, if NYG had a first round grade on QB they should have taken them at six. So, that could have been JJM, Penix or Nix, I didn't care.
And I know what the rebuttal will be? That's how you end up with Daniel Jones. I was fine with the Jones pick. The time to move off him was after 2021 though. Either pick up the option or trade him after 2021. Instead, they took a half measure and ended up here.
We can't solve the DJ problem with another DJ though and that is the risk of selecting a JJM or Nix. A guy who is anointed but who likely doesn't have the ceiling to warrant such a scholarship. And then having middling success so as to get stuck with mediocrity year after year. Remember, Trubisky threw for six TDs in a game. Bortles and Tannehill led their teams to AFC Championship games. And Mariota, Osweiler and DJ won playoff games. These are quarterback hell traps.
Yes, fast failure is the right strategy and you are right, after 2021 was the precise moment to move on from DJ. But that is ignoring the opportunity cost of making the wrong selection in the first place. You obviously can't view the parallel universe of selecting Josh Allen instead of DJ in 2019 and the obvious butterfly effect in doing so, but we would have absolutely then taken Justin Herbert in 2020. And then, because we would not have been so fixated maybe on getting a "weapon for Daniel" in 2021, we might have selected Micah Parsons instead of trading back for Kadarius Toney and ultimately, Evan Neal. Brian Burns and KT appear to have finally solidified the two Edges, but we are still drowning in the river Styx at quarterback.
Clearly this is all very hypothetical, but you get the point. Yes, hitting on a Mahomes, Allen or Burrow in the top ten is nirvana and sets up a decade or more of championship calibre football. But a wrong selection at quarterback with a top ten pick is infinitely worse than punting on the position for another round or another day.
More than happy with Nabers but we still need a QB next year.
I wanted Schoen to go after a player he and Daboll had conviction on was a legit franchise QB they could win a SB with. Sounds like he tried to do that with Maye if we believe there was no gamesmanship and the talks with the Pats were to move up for Maye. He could have taken any of Nix, Penix or JJM. Who am I to say he should have?
I don't have enough knowledge of these QB's (and really none of us does except maybe Sy) to go "on record" and say player x was my guy. I know that's kind of fence sitting, but I just don't like my track record. lol.