for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Gymnastics Controversy

Matt M. : 8/11/2024 5:24 pm
What is your take on the bronze medal controversy with Jordan Chiles? From what we've seen and read, the US made their inquiry immediately and in time, and the judges agreed that the difficulty level should be adjusted. Because the 2 Brazilian gymnasts are upset they get to overturn that days later?

Now, they are taking away a medal already awarded to Chiles, which is worse, in my opinion. If they want to go back and forth on this, then award all 3 the bronze. But, taking away Chiles medal does not seem fair after the fact.
The "judge" said the protest  
section125 : 8/11/2024 5:27 pm : link
wasn't with in the 1 minute challenge period - they were late challenging the scoring - if I readd the article correctly.

So forget that the scoring was wrong, the timing was more important.
RE: The  
Matt M. : 8/11/2024 5:32 pm : link
In comment 16574424 section125 said:
Quote:
wasn't with in the 1 minute challenge period - they were late challenging the scoring - if I readd the article correctly.

So forget that the scoring was wrong, the timing was more important.
And the US says that is 100% false with video evidence.

If the technicality is correct, then sure. But, if not, this is just back pedaling on a decision that hurt some feelings.
They were apparently  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2024 5:34 pm : link
4 seconds to late in filing the inquiry.

I'm not going to pretend to be a gymnastics expert or that I really care too much about this, but the US gymnast got hosed. Olympics should be about sport and I cannot believe this is in the spirit of sportsmanship.

the judge messed up, and the 1 minute time allowance to file an inquiry to see if the judge had it right was missed by 4 seconds, so that's too late?

If you're the Brazilian gymnast awarded the bronze I cannot see how you accept it.
RE: They were apparently  
Matt M. : 8/11/2024 5:36 pm : link
In comment 16574430 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
4 seconds to late in filing the inquiry.

I'm not going to pretend to be a gymnastics expert or that I really care too much about this, but the US gymnast got hosed. Olympics should be about sport and I cannot believe this is in the spirit of sportsmanship.

the judge messed up, and the 1 minute time allowance to file an inquiry to see if the judge had it right was missed by 4 seconds, so that's too late?

If you're the Brazilian gymnast awarded the bronze I cannot see how you accept it.
Of course they accept it. It was their lawsuit that got the bronze taken away from Chiles in the first place.
Easy solution  
JT039 : 8/11/2024 5:44 pm : link
Give them both the bronze
USA has submitted new video evidence  
shyster : 8/11/2024 5:47 pm : link
not previously available that the protest was made within a minute, specifically 47 seconds. No comment yet from the reviewing authorities.

And the other country involved is Romania, not Brazil.
usatoday - ( New Window )
Jordan should tell them “over my dead body.”  
GiantBlue : 8/11/2024 5:51 pm : link
And give it to Dad to hold. This is all BS.
RE: RE: They were apparently  
k2tampa : 8/11/2024 5:55 pm : link
In comment 16574431 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 16574430 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


4 seconds to late in filing the inquiry.

I'm not going to pretend to be a gymnastics expert or that I really care too much about this, but the US gymnast got hosed. Olympics should be about sport and I cannot believe this is in the spirit of sportsmanship.

the judge messed up, and the 1 minute time allowance to file an inquiry to see if the judge had it right was missed by 4 seconds, so that's too late?

If you're the Brazilian gymnast awarded the bronze I cannot see how you accept it.

Of course they accept it. It was their lawsuit that got the bronze taken away from Chiles in the first place.


First, it's a Romanian gymnast, not Brazilian.

Second, if the judges had not wrongly penalized the second Romanian gymnast for stepping out of bounds (the video showed very clearly her heel did not touch the mat) she would have medaled and there would be no issue involving Chiles and Barbosu, who would have been fourth and fifth, in either order.

This is a perfect example of why sports that rely on subjective judging shouldn't be in the Olympics. Consider break dancing, where there are no standards at all for what is good or bad. It is 100 percent based on what each judge likes. The results from one set of judges might be totally reversed a day later with a different panel of judges. That's not how sports are supposed to work.
from what I read…  
Mike in St. Louis : 8/11/2024 5:57 pm : link
the complaining country/gymnasts proposed that the medal be shared but the IOC refused to do that…
Judges F'd up  
Gmen703 : 8/11/2024 6:02 pm : link
Why should the gymnasts be punished? I wouldn't give the medal back unless I was being barred from future Olympics.
Brazil  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2024 6:03 pm : link
Romania, irrelevant to the point, but thank you for the correction and it's also irrelevant to the reason the IOC said the US inquiry was invalid. that was apparently the time.

the rest of the complaining on here is what you get when you participate in a sport judged by judges. my daughter figure skated up until high school and you know going in, you are subject to the whim of the judges. and judged sports have been in Olympics probably since the olden days in Athens.

all that said the 4 seconds too late is the hill you die on if you're the IOC? that's the only part I feel even remotely qualified to comment on and I'm probably not qualified to do that. lol. I'm out on this one, will leave it to the women's gymnastics experts.
Once again... the Olympics will completely ruined  
DefenseWins : 8/11/2024 6:04 pm : link
by the ridiculous people who have been running it. Nobody is going to watch this shit if the nonsense continues.
Four seconds late filing the appeal?  
Crispino : 8/11/2024 6:13 pm : link
Way to uphold the Olympic ideal , IOC.
RE: Brazil  
k2tampa : 8/11/2024 6:52 pm : link
In comment 16574453 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Romania, irrelevant to the point, but thank you for the correction and it's also irrelevant to the reason the IOC said the US inquiry was invalid. that was apparently the time.

the rest of the complaining on here is what you get when you participate in a sport judged by judges. my daughter figure skated up until high school and you know going in, you are subject to the whim of the judges. and judged sports have been in Olympics probably since the olden days in Athens.

all that said the 4 seconds too late is the hill you die on if you're the IOC? that's the only part I feel even remotely qualified to comment on and I'm probably not qualified to do that. lol. I'm out on this one, will leave it to the women's gymnastics experts.


Also, it's not the IOC. It's the Court of Arbitration for Sports. The International Gymnastics Federation, which is in charge of gymnastic competitions at the Olympics, said it would abide by the court's ruling. The IOC then followed that agency's ruling.
RE: Once again... the Olympics will completely ruined  
RDJR : 8/11/2024 7:54 pm : link
In comment 16574455 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
by the ridiculous people who have been running it. Nobody is going to watch this shit if the nonsense continues.


Only 20+ million a day for 16 days in the United States….
The IOC would fuck up a ham sandwich.  
Section331 : 8/11/2024 8:08 pm : link
Just give them both bronzes and move on. Taking a medal away from someone, unless it’s for an infraction, is wildly unfair.
RE: The IOC would fuck up a ham sandwich.  
section125 : 8/11/2024 8:32 pm : link
In comment 16574549 Section331 said:
Quote:
Just give them both bronzes and move on. Taking a medal away from someone, unless it’s for an infraction, is wildly unfair.



Wait IOC/NCAA - kinda the same - effing up sport one competition at at time
RE: The IOC would fuck up a ham sandwich.  
Jim in Fairfax : 8/11/2024 9:43 pm : link
In comment 16574549 Section331 said:
Quote:
. Taking a medal away from someone, unless it’s for an infraction, is wildly unfair.

Which time? The Romanian was the initial bronze medal winner. She was celebrating on the floor waving her flag when the result was changed after US appeal.
RE: RE: The IOC would fuck up a ham sandwich.  
Section331 : 8/11/2024 9:47 pm : link
In comment 16574602 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 16574549 Section331 said:


Quote:


. Taking a medal away from someone, unless it’s for an infraction, is wildly unfair.


Which time? The Romanian was the initial bronze medal winner. She was celebrating on the floor waving her flag when the result was changed after US appeal.


Maybe include my entire pst, which clearly said give th
RE: RE: RE: The IOC would fuck up a ham sandwich.  
Section331 : 8/11/2024 9:48 pm : link
In comment 16574603 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16574602 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 16574549 Section331 said:


Quote:


. Taking a medal away from someone, unless it’s for an infraction, is wildly unfair.


Which time? The Romanian was the initial bronze medal winner. She was celebrating on the floor waving her flag when the result was changed after US appeal.



Maybe include my entire post, which clearly said give the bronze to both. What were you confused about?
My take is that the judging system is broken.  
81_Great_Dane : 8/11/2024 10:14 pm : link
It’s especially bad in rhythmic gymnastics, which uses the same system. “Inquiries” put in constantly. It seems as if more often than not, the score changes.

The judging is slow and inaccurate, even on the supposedly objective part: the difficulty score.

Then it’s up to the athlete and her coaches to fix the judges’ mistakes.

This ain’t working.
RE: Easy solution  
bw in dc : 8/11/2024 10:14 pm : link
In comment 16574438 JT039 said:
Quote:
Give them both the bronze


Agreed.

The US tied with China for most gold at 40. In the high jump, the US guy - McEwen? - was tied with a jumper from New Zealand after all the rounds were completed. They could have agreed to split the gold.

Instead, McEwen said he wanted to keep jumping. And he loss. in fact, I don't think he made a jump; and that's with the bar actually being lowered each time.

JFC, when in doubt, take the told. Who cares about a tie?
I watched breaking.  
81_Great_Dane : 8/11/2024 10:20 pm : link
I have no idea how they judge it but it was a lot of fun.

Rhythmic gymnastics is basically circus acts, and fun for a while, but it’s like watching the same kind of circus act over and over until it stops being much fun. I gave up but my wife watched to the end The judging standards are a little more comprehensible to me than in breaking but there seem to be A LOT of upheld inquiries. And the judging takes forever.
RE: RE: Easy solution  
jomps : 8/12/2024 12:40 am : link
In comment 16574612 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16574438 JT039 said:


Quote:


Give them both the bronze



Agreed.

The US tied with China for most gold at 40. In the high jump, the US guy - McEwen? - was tied with a jumper from New Zealand after all the rounds were completed. They could have agreed to split the gold.

Instead, McEwen said he wanted to keep jumping. And he loss. in fact, I don't think he made a jump; and that's with the bar actually being lowered each time.

JFC, when in doubt, take the told. Who cares about a tie?


I believe Hamish Kerr wanted to jump aswell, and both have to agree for it to be a tie.

As for the OP, the brazilian won Gold medal guys. There were 2 romanian girls, Voinea originally had the bronze medal, then the US asked for a review and they assignaled a better score, giving the bronze medal to Chiles. The other Romanian had a -0.1 infraction on stepping out of bounds, but they realized she didn't, so she put a 13.700 score, tied with Voinea and ahead of Chiles (13.666). Since Barbosu had a better execution grade, she gets the bronze over Voinea (it's an untying criteria). It's a fucking mess, and very unfair, imo, to ask someone already home to give the bronze medal back. But I'll admit I have no right answer for this problem the judges created for themselves.
Hamish Kerr's link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Easy solution  
Jim in Fairfax : 8/12/2024 10:58 am : link
In comment 16574646 jomps said:
Quote:

As for the OP, the brazilian won Gold medal guys. There were 2 romanian girls, Voinea originally had the bronze medal, then the US asked for a review and they assignaled a better score, giving the bronze medal to Chiles. The other Romanian had a -0.1 infraction on stepping out of bounds, but they realized she didn't, so she put a 13.700 score, tied with Voinea and ahead of Chiles (13.666). Since Barbosu had a better execution grade, she gets the bronze over Voinea (it's an untying criteria). It's a fucking mess, and very unfair, imo, to ask someone already home to give the bronze medal back. But I'll admit I have no right answer for this problem the judges created for themselves. Hamish Kerr's link - ( New Window )

Voinea was never in position for Bronze. After the competed they were placed:
3. Barbosu
4. Voinea
5. Chiles

After the US protested that Chiles was given an incorrect difficulty score, her corrected score elevated her above both Romanians for 3rd.

Voinea was improperly docked 0.1 points for stepping out (she didn’t). The Romanians protested but it was denied because execution scores can’t be changed by protest even when obvious errors are made. Only protests on difficulty scores are allowed. If she got that tenth back, she would have won bronze even if Chiles score had remained corrected.
RE: RE: RE: Easy solution  
bw in dc : 8/12/2024 11:02 am : link
In comment 16574646 jomps said:
Quote:

I believe Hamish Kerr wanted to jump aswell, and both have to agree for it to be a tie.



Maybe you are right. But it looked like McEwen was the one eager to keep jumping.

I think both would have agreed that sharing the gold was a pretty good idea...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Easy solution  
jomps : 8/12/2024 11:10 am : link
In comment 16574825 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 16574646 jomps said:


Quote:



As for the OP, the brazilian won Gold medal guys. There were 2 romanian girls, Voinea originally had the bronze medal, then the US asked for a review and they assignaled a better score, giving the bronze medal to Chiles. The other Romanian had a -0.1 infraction on stepping out of bounds, but they realized she didn't, so she put a 13.700 score, tied with Voinea and ahead of Chiles (13.666). Since Barbosu had a better execution grade, she gets the bronze over Voinea (it's an untying criteria). It's a fucking mess, and very unfair, imo, to ask someone already home to give the bronze medal back. But I'll admit I have no right answer for this problem the judges created for themselves. Hamish Kerr's link - ( New Window )


Voinea was never in position for Bronze. After the competed they were placed:
3. Barbosu
4. Voinea
5. Chiles

After the US protested that Chiles was given an incorrect difficulty score, her corrected score elevated her above both Romanians for 3rd.

Voinea was improperly docked 0.1 points for stepping out (she didn’t). The Romanians protested but it was denied because execution scores can’t be changed by protest even when obvious errors are made. Only protests on difficulty scores are allowed. If she got that tenth back, she would have won bronze even if Chiles score had remained corrected.


I think you are correct, I think I got a little confused with all the mess they created haha.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Easy solution  
jomps : 8/12/2024 1:51 pm : link
In comment 16574831 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16574646 jomps said:


Quote:



I believe Hamish Kerr wanted to jump aswell, and both have to agree for it to be a tie.





Maybe you are right. But it looked like McEwen was the one eager to keep jumping.

I think both would have agreed that sharing the gold was a pretty good idea...


I had the same impression as you did watching it live, but the quotes on the link suggest otherwise.
Gymnastics: a mess. I don't have an opinion.  
CT Charlie : 8/12/2024 7:12 pm : link
High jump: It's pretty clear that Kerr preferred a jump-off to sharing the medal, and McEwan appeared fine with that decision in the moment. The only way they could share it was by mutual consent, which wasn't going to be an option given Kerr's stated preference for a jump-off.

Having coached high school HJ and pole vault for 35 years, I'd say it's astonishing for a tie to happen in back-to-back Olympics. In my career, with 10-15 meets per season, we encountered such ties only once every 2-4 years. For first place, sharing the medal (& the points) wasn't permitted.

Back to the Corner