All things considered, with the team's aspirations and the fragility with the starter, I think Lock is in the conversation of the most important backup.
The Giants have every reason to believe they can compete for a playoff spot, so they aren't like the Patriots, Panthers, Commanders etc.
And if the past is a reflection of Jones's durability, Lock will be getting the call for several games. So they aren't like the Bills or Chiefs with a durable QB.
Excuse me, I meant "if Lock starts"
Hopefully we can see him again in one of these preseason games and prove this wrong. If not, DeVito should be the backup and Lock should be Mr. Clipboard until he departs in January.
Why not just go into the draft with Jones, DeVito and someone like Eason as the extra body? Then you can either draft a QB or still sign someone.
The approach was downright weird. If Schoen succeeds in acquiring Maye, he has 60M tied up in QBs in 2024 (Jones + Maye + Lock), and effectively pushes DeVito off the roster.
If he doesn't acquire Maye, he has a quarterback with durability issues penciled in to start, and a backup with a really unimpressive track record.
For a team with playoff aspirations, and a coach in a critical season -- it's a strange choice.
I wouldn't be surprised if Jones was Vegas's choice as most likely to miss 4 games among starters as well.
Because those with an agenda can’t help themselves. The obsession is fascinating, really.
Help us understand this magical agenda so we can keep it up for you. And I'll even give you a Happy Meal toy if you can manage to express your thoughts without the word narrative.
DJ coming off injury
Devito still learning
5 Million is under 2% of the salary cap.
In their opinion Lock was the youngest, strongest arm, veteran with NFL experience and potential upside available.
It is a one year insurance with a chance that he excels under Daboll tutelage.
You dont know the outcomes when you make all these decisions, it just a playing the odds game. There is input from Daboll and staff when making these decisions.
If Devito is better than Lock then he can win the job. At the end of the day you are spending around 2% of cap on your QB backups, big deal. Both players can compete for the job.
I don’t GET IT! Jonez stinks and Schoen WASTED $5m! WTF!!!
If you believe you will be a playoff contender, and your current quarterback has durability issues, it makes sense to spend more if necessary to get a player with proven ability to step in and win games. Even if that means going the Minshew route.
What the Giants did is pay backup rate, for a developmental player. And let's be real, Lock needs a lot of development.
I don’t GET IT! Jonez stinks and Schoen WASTED $5m! WTF!!!
Were you this sensitive under your previous handles? I don't recall.
Your paranoid sensitivity with Jones doesn't need to apply in this discussion. We're talking about his durability issues. The topic the GM brought up repeatedly on Hard Knocks.
Think of it this way - if Jones gets hurt, shits the bed, whatever - you'll have all season to say I told you so, harp on it, and revel in his demise. If he plays great and the team is winning, you can post all the reasons why it's despite Jones. At least it will be new material.
Think of it this way - if Jones gets hurt, shits the bed, whatever - you'll have all season to say I told you so, harp on it, and revel in his demise. If he plays great and the team is winning, you can post all the reasons why it's despite Jones. At least it will be new material.
Same question to you as the above, but we all know how sensitive you've been from the dawn of time.
This isn't a knock on Jones, it's a question about contingencies. A topic the GM referenced over and over in regards to Jones's durability. And now the contingency is banged up.
Stop being such a baby.
That's how this thread comes across.
Try watching Lock's starts from last year. He fits Daboll's offense and is ideally suited as a backup.
This offense is complicated and takes time to learn. Devito has a year in the system which greatly helps him to look better early on.
Lock was an early 2nd rd pick, Cutlets was undrafted.
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How many different angles do you want to endlessly blather about on Jones historic issues? How about doing what every fucking player says - put last year behind. It's a new season.
Think of it this way - if Jones gets hurt, shits the bed, whatever - you'll have all season to say I told you so, harp on it, and revel in his demise. If he plays great and the team is winning, you can post all the reasons why it's despite Jones. At least it will be new material.
Same question to you as the above, but we all know how sensitive you've been from the dawn of time.
This isn't a knock on Jones, it's a question about contingencies. A topic the GM referenced over and over in regards to Jones's durability. And now the contingency is banged up.
Stop being such a baby.
Spin it how you like; it's the same tired bullshit.
But I'll play. 8 of the top 20 highest rated QBs in the league last season played 17 games. 3 more played 16.
The other ~ half missed at least 2 games. Backup QBs are very important across the league.
I'll make a bet with you -- of those above-mentioned QBs, at least one who missed 2+ games will play a full season, and at least one who played a full season will miss 2+ games. Let me know.
What do you think the odds are he missed time this year?
Think of it this way - if Jones gets hurt, shits the bed, whatever - you'll have all season to say I told you so, harp on it, and revel in his demise. If he plays great and the team is winning, you can post all the reasons why it's despite Jones. At least it will be new material.
Same question to you as the above, but we all know how sensitive you've been from the dawn of time.
This isn't a knock on Jones, it's a question about contingencies. A topic the GM referenced over and over in regards to Jones's durability. And now the contingency is banged up.
Stop being such a baby.
Spin it how you like; it's the same tired bullshit.
But I'll play. 8 of the top 20 highest rated QBs in the league last season played 17 games. 3 more played 16.
The other ~ half missed at least 2 games. Backup QBs are very important across the league.
I'll make a bet with you -- of those above-mentioned QBs, at least one who missed 2+ games will play a full season, and at least one who played a full season will miss 2+ games. Let me know.
I have no idea what you're even trying to handicap.
How about a much more simple bet. Jones misses 4 games. If he does, I win and you stop your temper tantrums when replying to threads. You win, and the Giants probably have a much better season.
Giants fans regardless of what we think about Daniel Jones better hope he stays healthy and has the best year of his career in 2024. I think Lock and Devito = 10 top 2025 draft pick if they have to play a majority of the games in 2024.
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How many different angles do you want to endlessly blather about on Jones historic issues? How about doing what every fucking player says - put last year behind. It's a new season.
Think of it this way - if Jones gets hurt, shits the bed, whatever - you'll have all season to say I told you so, harp on it, and revel in his demise. If he plays great and the team is winning, you can post all the reasons why it's despite Jones. At least it will be new material.
Same question to you as the above, but we all know how sensitive you've been from the dawn of time.
This isn't a knock on Jones, it's a question about contingencies. A topic the GM referenced over and over in regards to Jones's durability. And now the contingency is banged up.
Stop being such a baby.
Spin it how you like; it's the same tired bullshit.
But I'll play. 8 of the top 20 highest rated QBs in the league last season played 17 games. 3 more played 16.
The other ~ half missed at least 2 games. Backup QBs are very important across the league.
I'll make a bet with you -- of those above-mentioned QBs, at least one who missed 2+ games will play a full season, and at least one who played a full season will miss 2+ games. Let me know.
I have no idea what you're even trying to handicap.
How about a much more simple bet. Jones misses 4 games. If he does, I win and you stop your temper tantrums when replying to threads. You win, and the Giants probably have a much better season.
Temper tantrum? That's what you consider this? OK Karen.
I'll bet on 4 games (to be clear, not because I'm confident Jones or any other single player will avoid injury -- just in the spirit). Make it meatier.
Temper tantrum? That's what you consider this? OK Karen.
I'll bet on 4 games (to be clear, not because I'm confident Jones or any other single player will avoid injury -- just in the spirit). Make it meatier.
LOL, yes Hbart, people who start interactions with the following definitely qualify as babies in my book.
How many different angles do you want to endlessly blather about on Jones historic issues? How about doing what every fucking player says - put last year behind. It's a new season.
I definitely like DeVito, but for me it's:
1) How big of a difference is there between DeVito and Lock?
2) Given Jones's past durability issues how likely is it the backup will play significant time?
I'm actually pretty optimistic about the Giants this year. I they can definitely compete for a playoff spot.
How did the NYG FO not do better than Lock?
It was there one GLARING miss during the offseason.
I don't get it.
The complicating factor I imagine for perspective backups was the Giants had Jones, were clearly in the draft hunt, and had DeVito on the roster.
So I get why a guy looking for his shot like Wilson wasn't a fit.
What I don't get is why they opted for a guy with major holes in his game at more than the near minimum.
You either get a bona fide spot starter, or pay development price for development goods.
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How about a much more simple bet. Jones misses 4 games. If he does, I win and you stop your temper tantrums when replying to threads. You win, and the Giants probably have a much better season.
Temper tantrum? That's what you consider this? OK Karen.
I'll bet on 4 games (to be clear, not because I'm confident Jones or any other single player will avoid injury -- just in the spirit). Make it meatier.
LOL, yes Hbart, people who start interactions with the following definitely qualify as babies in my book.
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Jesus Fing Christ
How many different angles do you want to endlessly blather about on Jones historic issues? How about doing what every fucking player says - put last year behind. It's a new season.
I DONT GET IT! Why is Schoen and Daboll so stupid??!!!?
The unintentional hilarity of this post will sustain me for days. Enjoy your seat next to the 'moran' guy. Also, fabulous contribution per normal.
He's doing what he's told by his boss.
The stuff HK didn't show.
Now, is his salary a bit high for a backup? maybe
will he struggle if he has to play too early in the season? probably.
but stop with the Devito- Lock comparison, please!
Now, is his salary a bit high for a backup? maybe
will he struggle if he has to play too early in the season? probably.
but stop with the Devito- Lock comparison, please!
The one full year Drew Lock played, he had the lowest completion percentage among starters in the NFL, the highest count of bad throws in the NFL, and lowest on-target rate in the NFL.
He was subsequently benched for Teddy Bridgewater the next year, and is 1-4 with 1:1 TD to interception ratio since. The only bright spot on his resume was a solid outing vs. the Eagles last year who were in a tailspin.
What evidence are you using to support the idea he's a more than capable backup? But more importantly what evidence are you using that he'll fair better than DeVito if called to play significant snaps?
If JS knew DJ would be fully healthy by camp would he have signed Lock? Maybe, maybe not. But at the time he had no choice. Even if DeVito turns out to be better, it’s something that had to be done at the time.
This year they’re going to have to bite the bullet and keep 3QBs in their roster. Devito would 100% be picked up. Next year DeVito might be the only QB left from this group.
It's a shame the universe keeps putting Schoen in these corners where has no other recourse.
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because there were no other better options, Schoen also had to go with Lock as the backup. No other better options conveniently works here on BBI.
It's a shame the universe keeps putting Schoen in these corners where has no other recourse.
He's a big boy.
When you take this job, you know what comes with it.
Schoen was certainly in a tricky situation. Jones was not fully healthy and they were still evaluating whether to move up in the draft.
So if you game theory this out, you really have two scenarios.
1) You trade up for a rookie, and now have rookie + Jones + Lock at ~60M cap hit and lose DeVito.
2) Don't trade up and have Jones + Lock + DeVito.
In scenario 1 isn't the better outcome swap Lock for DeVito as the 3rd QB/development project?
In scenario 2 isn't the better scenario increase your self imposed budget and pursue a better backup since you are worried about Jones's durability?
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In the beginning of Hsrd Knocks, he’s talking about backup QB.
Schoen was certainly in a tricky situation. Jones was not fully healthy and they were still evaluating whether to move up in the draft.
So if you game theory this out, you really have two scenarios.
1) You trade up for a rookie, and now have rookie + Jones + Lock at ~60M cap hit and lose DeVito.
2) Don't trade up and have Jones + Lock + DeVito.
In scenario 1 isn't the better outcome swap Lock for DeVito as the 3rd QB/development project?
In scenario 2 isn't the better scenario increase your self imposed budget and pursue a better backup since you are worried about Jones's durability?
This is not exactly the full equation.
# 2 gets Nabers
# 1 is minus Nabers and a first round pick next year, and other picks
If Jones gets hurt, the backups not being good might actually be a plus because you will have a worse record and have a chance at a QB, plus you still have Nabers who you need for your next QB.
I still didn't get why the Giants would back up their injury prone QB (DJ) with one of the most injured back-up QBs in the league (TT). ESPECIALLY after they watched the previous regime run Jake Fromm out there b/c everyone got hurt.
And I don't know how much I buy the whole "maybe no FA QBs wanted to come here". I would find that very hard to believe being that it's one of the few places a vet QB could walk in and potentially compete for a starting job and/or end up in one due to injury.
I'm also not buying the "there weren't any other options than Lock" argument. They could have drafted one (there are other rounds in the draft besides the 1st). There were plenty of vet options better than Lock (or atleast the same) for a similar amount of $$$ (Taylor Heinicke, J. Winston, M. Mariota, etc.) or heck...how about two them - with the current Lock situation that would have been a great problem to have. And lastly, they could have traded for one like a Zach Wilson (yeah - I hear the giggles from here) or a Kenny Pickett, or a Mac Jones, or a Sam Howell.
The good news is that it's not too late - at this point, why wouldn't the NYG pick up the phone and give Ryan Tannehill a call?
# 2 gets Nabers
# 1 is minus Nabers and a first round pick next year, and other picks
If Jones gets hurt, the backups not being good might actually be a plus because you will have a worse record and have a chance at a QB, plus you still have Nabers who you need for your next QB.
In the scenario where they don't draft a QB, there is no reason they couldn't have pursued a better backup than Lock, and still drafted Nabers + saved draft picks.
And as much as sucking and securing a better draft pick might be more practically attractive to fans (I agree BTW), that most certainly wasn't part of Schoen's calculus.
Big time.
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In the beginning of Hsrd Knocks, he’s talking about backup QB.
Schoen was certainly in a tricky situation. Jones was not fully healthy and they were still evaluating whether to move up in the draft.
So if you game theory this out, you really have two scenarios.
1) You trade up for a rookie, and now have rookie + Jones + Lock at ~60M cap hit and lose DeVito.
2) Don't trade up and have Jones + Lock + DeVito.
In scenario 1 isn't the better outcome swap Lock for DeVito as the 3rd QB/development project?
In scenario 2 isn't the better scenario increase your self imposed budget and pursue a better backup since you are worried about Jones's durability?
I don’t disagree w/either scenario. I really think they wanted Tyrod back but he jumped ship the Jets. He might not have wanted to come back here regardless. They weren’t going after Minshew for that price. Lock was their next option on their board. It was either Tyrod or Lock regardless. Not even for the price I think they liked those 2 the best.
I think if they made a trade up for a QB, they would’ve tried to trade DeVito or cut/try to get him back in the PS. I don’t think they’d worry too much loosing him if they got Maye/Daniels.
But if DJ wasn’t healthy and they didn’t sign Lock, I don’t think they wanted to go into the season with DeVito as the starter and whoever as a backup and have DJ like Wilson was last year for Denver.
I think for this year it’s the best scenario. Even if DeVito beats out Lock, it’s just $5mil for this year.
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This is not exactly the full equation.
# 2 gets Nabers
# 1 is minus Nabers and a first round pick next year, and other picks
If Jones gets hurt, the backups not being good might actually be a plus because you will have a worse record and have a chance at a QB, plus you still have Nabers who you need for your next QB.
In the scenario where they don't draft a QB, there is no reason they couldn't have pursued a better backup than Lock, and still drafted Nabers + saved draft picks.
And as much as sucking and securing a better draft pick might be more practically attractive to fans (I agree BTW), that most certainly wasn't part of Schoen's calculus.
I believe Tyrod was their first choice, Lock was second. They new minshew was going to be too expensive, he signed 2yrs 25 mil. If they did that, they weren’t signing burns or one of the OL. So it was Tyrod or Lock.
This is also based on the op saying is lock the most important backup in the NFL. Some were posting DeVito, and some were saying if it’s DeVito, then we wasted $5 mil on lock. I’m just stating at the time, it was the right decision at the time. Hindsight being 20/20, with DJ healthy now it’s not as imperative. I think now though you have to hold on to all 3 this year. It’s only 1 year so they’ll have to deal with the extra spot going to DeVito/Lock.
By the end of this season it will all work itself out.
Whether that backup is Lock or DeVito, I believe the Giants back up is in that "most important" group.
Whether that backup is Lock or DeVito, I believe the Giants back up is in that "most important" group.
Not even close in comparsion to theentire NFL.
Interesting, but I'm not sure.
I've said it a few times. I get the sense that Daboll is convinced he can coach anybody. He's completely confident he can make chicken salad.
So, I can see Schoen giving options based on the best economics, and Daboll saying if that's what is best for the team, he'll make it work.
The Giants, with any of their 3 QBs, have a slight chance to luck into the playoffs like they did in 22. More likely, they win 6-8 games.
Lock is a guy who won't cause a QB controversy. He doesn't have the stature or the untapped potential for fans to get excited. He won't cause any rifts in the locker room. And he read his instructions dutifully in his intro press conference. Daniel is the starter. There is no competition for the job. Lock is perfectly cast for the role of maintaining harmony and giving Daniel the most comfortable environment to realize his dreams.
The Giants, with any of their 3 QBs, have a slight chance to luck into the playoffs like they did in 22. More likely, they win 6-8 games.
Lock is a guy who won't cause a QB controversy. He doesn't have the stature or the untapped potential for fans to get excited. He won't cause any rifts in the locker room. And he read his instructions dutifully in his intro press conference. Daniel is the starter. There is no competition for the job. Lock is perfectly cast for the role of maintaining harmony and giving Daniel the most comfortable environment to realize his dreams.
+1.
A ceiling at its best is probably 8 wins. The backup qb on a 6-8 win team even if by some crazy fluke they got in playoffs isn't taking them anywhere.
Teams with much higher probabilities of Playoff success - things like home field and/or if they win a couple games before the star qb coming back are much much more important. Its just logic.
They're not getting anything more out of the bust than the UDFA.