That one pass in his end zone while under duress. I’m sure he knows that too. Okay, so he made a mistake…it happens. This was his first game back so why make a big deal on this one play? Let’s review the positives of the game for him:
1. His numbers were pretty good: 11-18 for 138.
And had Nabers not dropped that long pass down the right sideline…and yes, it was beautifully thrown….Nabers has been catching harder passes than that all preseason….his stats would have been 12-18 for about 170. That’s not bad for one half of football.
2. No sacks, so he got rid of the ball quickly
3. Very accurate long passes…the one to Slayton for 44 was a beaut. The drop by Nabers in quarter 1 was nice. A few others to Nabers were nice.
4. His two minute drill at the end of the first half was tremendous. Too bad we had to kick a FG instead of a TD to tie up the game.
5. Being down 14-10 at half on the road isn’t too shabby.
6. This was Jones first game back from a serious injury. He looked poised and relaxed. Naturally, there will be some rust to shake off. Like I said, his numbers and the score at half are not an indication he stunk. Reading some comments saying otherwise is just not accurate. I think everyone who absolutely cannot cut Jones any slack will see what THEY WANT TO SEE. Like that one ill advised pass…..and forget the rest.
Oh well, I’m sure I can’t convince the hard of heart guys out there, but you should not be hating on Jones for THIS GAME.
We are about to find out how far a good offensive roster can carry the qb
IF he had an OL
IF he had playmakers
IF he didn't get hurt
At some point you have to accept the IFs and realize he's mediocre at best.
That made me laugh...IF King...
If Daboll doesn't play Jones almost 2 qtrs next week, he is stupid.
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What about the underthrow to Hyatt that was picked off?
Barely underthrown….Hyatt really didn’t have separation. At least Jones tried to give his WR a chance to fight for it. My gosh you can’t win with you guys….
“Jones is afraid to throw long, always checks down…”
And then when he does throw long and it gets picked…..”see that pass he (barely) underthrew ? What a bum….”
Always looking to find fault….
As I've said on other threads, I blame Hyatt as much as Jones. He never adjusted to the ball, he just waited for it to fall into his outstretched arms. He could have/should fought for that ball and turned it into incomplete pass.
If Daboll doesn't play Jones almost 2 qtrs next week, he is stupid.
I would be very surprised if Daboll didn’t go at least the first half with Daniel Jones for game 3. He needs the reps. Badly.
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
THIS!
LOL. So goal of a discussion site is that everyone should have the same opinion. What can I say other than I agree?
Jones made some mistakes but got better as he got more playing time. I was encouraged with what I saw acknowledging the few bad throws. First game, rusty, geeked up with adrenaline……he stayed healthy and moved around nicely. A lot of great throws trying to push the ball downfield.
The pic in front of Hyatt could have been a longer and higher pass ….not perfect, but I don’t think Hyatt did much to help out. Just like that sideline pass Danny hit him beautifully but he couldn’t get both feet down.
I wonder if anyone is going to find fault with Hyatt like they are Dimes.
Again, Dimes was 11-18 for 138
Nabers dropped a 30 yard pass perfectly thrown
Hyatt was unable to get both feet down on another great pass to the outside.
Fist game back, Dimes could have been 13-18 for close to 200 yards without those two drops/feet down. And of course the 2 pics
I was happy with what I saw save the pic 6. If you aren’t…no big deal….I’m no longer interested in defending this….i don’t care what you think as I’m sure you don’t care what I think. Good night fellows…..
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
When none of the 12 completions were for a TD, but two of the 6 incompletions were INTs including one for an opposing TD.
Could have been 12-18
Now could have been 13-18 for 200 yards
By the end of the night it’ll be he could have have been 17-18 for 350
Jones made some mistakes but got better as he got more playing time. I was encouraged with what I saw acknowledging the few bad throws. First game, rusty, geeked up with adrenaline……he stayed healthy and moved around nicely. A lot of great throws trying to push the ball downfield.
I agree Jones did play better in the second quarter - true. And the throw to Slayton was his highlight of the day.
However, I submit that you need to adjust your view based on Jones's production going up when the Texans went with a mix of their second and third stringers. It's just not a fully credible result.
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the good part is he looked healthy.
The bad part is he still has the same flaws he always has.
Your opinion should be discarded for bias…
“Same flaws”……nonsense….he was not afraid to air it out and give his WRs a chance…completed many that way too.
No sacks….didnt hood the ball too long.
And he certainly held the ball too long on the pick 6 were him taking a sack would have been better outcome.
His biggest flaw is his inability to put points on the board but I guess he did throw a TD for the Texans.
Would love to know what my bias is that discards my opinion.
This. Since 2003 I've been here. The same few people on each side of the Jones debate ruin every thread. . And Somehere act like Evan Neal killed a school bus full of kids. Good luck but after 21 years this type of stuff makes me come heartless and less. Sorry Eric. But not sure what you can do.
I saw none of today’s game so I have nothing to comment on there. However, Jones is not magically going to be a different player this season. He’s likely going to have some decent moments, more terrible moments, he will continue to miss a ton of big plays because he either doesn’t see it or is too shy. And this is all of he manages to stay healthy coming off of 2 neck injuries in the last 3 seasons.
Somehow the Giants only had interest in the unattainable quarterbacks and apparently none in 3 legitimate options that were all taken within the next 6 picks.
Worst quarterback room in the league last season and the grand plan was to swap Tyrod Taylor for shitty Drew Lock.
I keep reading a lot of credit to Schoen for “wanting” Maye or for wanting to retain Taylor. They should be judged not for what they wanted to do but what they actually did, which was take another step back at the position, which for them was hard to do.
I did like however the fade to Nabers. People may say it was off, but he threw it where only he could grab away from the helpside defender.
This type of self imposed curse is going to do a lot of things to the fan base. Apathy, misery, anger, and yes insanity. I assume most people will go through different phases over the many, many years. Some will remove themselves from caring for a while, then maybe snap back into it with a period of anger, then go back to apathy.
I'd guess every fan base would be like this in this situation. Bit we have no way of knowing. Because this never happens.
I saw none of today’s game so I have nothing to comment on there. However, Jones is not magically going to be a different player this season. He’s likely going to have some decent moments, more terrible moments, he will continue to miss a ton of big plays because he either doesn’t see it or is too shy. And this is all of he manages to stay healthy coming off of 2 neck injuries in the last 3 seasons.
Somehow the Giants only had interest in the unattainable quarterbacks and apparently none in 3 legitimate options that were all taken within the next 6 picks.
Worst quarterback room in the league last season and the grand plan was to swap Tyrod Taylor for shitty Drew Lock.
I keep reading a lot of credit to Schoen for “wanting” Maye or for wanting to retain Taylor. They should be judged not for what they wanted to do but what they actually did, which was take another step back at the position, which for them was hard to do.
✅
"They tried to trade up for Maye" is a pretty ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Jones tried to throw the ball to Johnson" on the pick six.
Three years in and the Giants are paying over $50M for Jones/Lock/DeVito. That's it. That's the quality of the work these guys have done here.
I don't doubt that ownership has a lot of blame in this. The modus operandi of the past three years bears a lot of similarity to previous periods. But managing up to stupid owners is an important part of the job if you're the Giants' GM.
I think Minnesota would, for starters
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
Probably. So that's 1 out of the 31 other teams. Doubt there are many others.
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
Ok, I guess? But only because their talented rookie caught a bad break.
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
I’m not so sure about that. They have a QB who is very similar to DJ now
If he were paid properly at like $10M? I think he'd get staring jobs now and then - it's the same as Darnold, Trubisky, Minshew, Brisset, Mariota. Nobody wants to start them, but depending on how the chips fall any given season, some guys of that caliber will start.
If he were paid properly at like $10M? I think he'd get staring jobs now and then - it's the same as Darnold, Trubisky, Minshew, Brisset, Mariota. Nobody wants to start them, but depending on how the chips fall any given season, some guys of that caliber will start.
I think the question was more related to his ability than his contract, seeing that it was in the abstract
The pick 6 was a play rookies know not to make
Massive under throw led to interception on pass to Hyatt. Should have been a TD.
First completion to Nabers was terrible. Late and behind him.
Pass to Gray was late and behind him, causing the incompletion
Enough is enough.
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
No they wouldn't. Darnold is Jones's equal, his cap number is $37M lower than Jones's in 2024, and they are not tied to him in any way next year.
If you offered Schoen the opportunity to swap Jones for Darnold today he'd do it without thinking twice.
In less difficult situations against less good players, he looked better.
If not for that Minnesota game, Daniel Jones is Case Keenum.
He stinks.
I think we could still manage to have a decent season if everything goes right ( OL, WR, etc). But let’s just be honest. The man stinks.
"They tried to trade up for Maye" is a pretty ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Jones tried to throw the ball to Johnson" on the pick six.
Agreed.
These quotes from Accorsi and Brandon Beane on trading for franchise QB stand out for me.
ACCORSI:
With a flashback to 20 years ago when the organization traded up to draft Eli Manning at No. 1 overall, former Giants' GM Ernie Accorsi believes that "there's no price too high if you're right, but you better be right."
BEANE:
I know you aren't as fond of Maye as me, but I don't like drawing a line in the sand with the "Manning Deal" as the BAFO.
I'm not suggesting we should have handed over our next five ones, but if you identified your guy (not the guy you inherited) going above the "Manning Deal" and at least making Wolf say no would have been the better way to manage the discussion.
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"They tried to trade up for Maye" is a pretty ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Jones tried to throw the ball to Johnson" on the pick six.
Agreed.
These quotes from Accorsi and Brandon Beane on trading for franchise QB stand out for me.
ACCORSI:
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“You can’t give up too much for John Elway,” Accorsi said. “You can’t overpay [Joe] DiMaggio. If you ever get the chance to get a quarterback you think is great, go get him. "
With a flashback to 20 years ago when the organization traded up to draft Eli Manning at No. 1 overall, former Giants' GM Ernie Accorsi believes that "there's no price too high if you're right, but you better be right."
BEANE:
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"It’s one of those things, if you can get a franchise quarterback and he turns out to be a franchise quarterback, it’d be a good move," Beane said at this year's Combine. "We got criticized a little bit for how much we gave up for Josh and I’m like, ‘Well, if he doesn’t work out, I’m not going to be here anyway. And if he does work out, nobody’s gonna give a sh*t.’"
I know you aren't as fond of Maye as me, but I don't like drawing a line in the sand with the "Manning Deal" as the BAFO.
I'm not suggesting we should have handed over our next five ones, but if you identified your guy (not the guy you inherited) going above the "Manning Deal" and at least making Wolf say no would have been the better way to manage the discussion.
If they had traded the sun, moon, and stars for Maye I would have applauded. The draft picks that we are so in love with are dying on the vine while this franchise does nothing.
Personally I like Penix a lot. But I have no confidence that I'm right. And I have no confidence that professionals are right. The track records speak for themselves. Draft guys. Coach them. Test them. If they're good, keep them. If they're bad, try again.
Personally I like Penix a lot. But I have no confidence that I'm right. And I have no confidence that professionals are right. The track records speak for themselves. Draft guys. Coach them. Test them. If they're good, keep them. If they're bad, try again.
Same here. But trading for Maye was, to me, preferable to taking Nabers. Nothing against Nabers, who is clearly a talent. But so what if there's no one to get him the ball?
And finding talented WRs is as easy as it's ever been. From a team building standpoint it just made no sense.
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
Good luck finding a QB, Joe. It's not easy. Especially when you will probably be picking around 12th to 16th next season. Pay Dak $60M? Not many options.
They were within striking distance of Maye and they didn't get it done.
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He was looking to push it down the field, had a 12 yard run, and had a good 2 minute drill of 7 plays and 68 yds. I don't mind the Hyatt INT because he was going for it. He should have placed it in front rather than try and line drive it in, but I like the fact he was being aggressive.
I know saying "after the pick 6" he was fine is ridiculous, but its still preseason. If DJ plays like he did after the pick 6 we will score a lot of points. What was he after, something like 11-15 for 138 yds in one half.
I know its cool to bash bash bash, and I'm not saying DJ is a top 10 QB, but if he plays like he did after the pick-6 that is a top 20 type guy
So if he plays against backups he’s a top 20 guy?
He was 2-6 against their starters.
Jones got better as the half wore on. The Texans were playing starters and rotating in 2nd stringers like normal. Yo can take the extreme position as you do and say they were only playing backups but it isn't true.
Look I am neutral on DJ, I can see the good and bad unlike many here. The guy was terrible, but then got better and led 2 scoring drives. He did throw some nice passes along with the early crap.
DJ is what we have. I don't see the point of saying Schoen should have done this and should have done that. It about what do we do now, and DeVito is not the answer. DJ needs to get better
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And finding talented WRs is as easy as it's ever been. From a team building standpoint it just made no sense.
Teams are trading 1s or 1+ and then going top of market, which will soon be the second highest paid position after Lamb and Chase get done, to acquire aging true WR1s or ascending borderline WR1s. You can’t acquire these guys in unrestricted free agency and young alpha 1s don’t even flirt with the trade block. You may feel the market is wrong and I would respect your conviction if you thought it was but this isn’t accurate from an objective market-based perspective.
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In comment 16579726 Jerry in_DC said:
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And finding talented WRs is as easy as it's ever been. From a team building standpoint it just made no sense.
Teams are trading 1s or 1+ and then going top of market, which will soon be the second highest paid position after Lamb and Chase get done, to acquire aging true WR1s or ascending borderline WR1s. You can’t acquire these guys in unrestricted free agency and young alpha 1s don’t even flirt with the trade block. You may feel the market is wrong and I would respect your conviction if you thought it was but this isn’t accurate from an objective market-based perspective.
College football is producing WRs at a pace like never before. They're getting easier to find in the draft.
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
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Hey, you're preaching to the choir on this. I've been saying this on the board for a few weeks.
I've been part of negotiations for most of my career. So, I think I know what a serious discussion sounds like if someone presses to close a deal. I didn't hear anything with Schoen that remotely resembled that. He sounded to me like he was checking a box and looking for an off-ramp to move on to something less complicated - just taking a WR.
The pass to Hyatt was a bad underthrow and the CB made a good play on it. This to me was worse than the pick 6.
It wasn’t a great performance. It wasn’t the worst either.
One thing that always seems odd, the Giants never seem to have guys wide open on O or rarely do and other teams seem to have guys wide open all over the field against us.
Judging the whole season on a half of a game is silly.
I am concerned about the CB situation. Banks didn’t look great and lots of open receivers.
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
Did you read my post? Why don’t you take issue with my 6 points? Probably because you know you will get out debated….
Stick to the facts, not opinions…..too many of you guys make that mistake. You need older guys like myself to balance you out and remind you FACTS > Opinions
Can we just STFU about him already until he actually does something worth praising and talking about?
That's fair.
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In comment 16579350 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
Did you read my post? Why don’t you take issue with my 6 points? Probably because you know you will get out debated….
Stick to the facts, not opinions…..too many of you guys make that mistake. You need older guys like myself to balance you out and remind you FACTS > Opinions
Dude, the fact is, he made a rookie mistake in year 6. That pick 6 was bad enough to negate any good, when it comes on top of his history.
Can we just STFU about him already until he actually does something worth praising and talking about?
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In comment 16579453 Dankbeerman said:
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the good part is he looked healthy.
The bad part is he still has the same flaws he always has.
Your opinion should be discarded for bias…
“Same flaws”……nonsense….he was not afraid to air it out and give his WRs a chance…completed many that way too.
No sacks….didnt hood the ball too long.
His flaws are that he makes poor reads and worse adjustments.
And he certainly held the ball too long on the pick 6 were him taking a sack would have been better outcome.
His biggest flaw is his inability to put points on the board but I guess he did throw a TD for the Texans.
Would love to know what my bias is that discards my opinion.
You are not doing the math right for 5Bowls. Let me help you…
1) Daniel Jones is a very good QB. That is a proven fact. No debate.
2) Daniel Jones, with a better supporting cast, would unquestionably be putting up incredible stats and wins.
3) If you think Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB, you are objectively wrong because you are arguing against known and proven facts.
4) Your opinion doesn’t matter, because it runs counter to the fact that Jones is a very good QB.
This is why your opinion - and the opinion of everyone who questions the ability of Daniel Jones - doesn’t matter at all.
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This is the full conversation between Schoen and Wolf. I'm not sure if this was for the cameras, but Schoen is not nearly aggressive enough. Wolf left the door open by saying "unless".
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
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Hey, you're preaching to the choir on this. I've been saying this on the board for a few weeks.
I've been part of negotiations for most of my career. So, I think I know what a serious discussion sounds like if someone presses to close a deal. I didn't hear anything with Schoen that remotely resembled that. He sounded to me like he was checking a box and looking for an off-ramp to move on to something less complicated - just taking a WR.
This is exactly where I am with Schoen. He tried to trade up, but he didn’t. Everyone thought Evan Neal was a great pick, but he wasn’t. We all know Jones isn’t the answer but he got re-signed anyway.
When is it fair to start judging Schoen on what he accomplished instead of what he almost/tried to accomplish?
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In comment 16579741 Sean said:
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This is the full conversation between Schoen and Wolf. I'm not sure if this was for the cameras, but Schoen is not nearly aggressive enough. Wolf left the door open by saying "unless".
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
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Hey, you're preaching to the choir on this. I've been saying this on the board for a few weeks.
I've been part of negotiations for most of my career. So, I think I know what a serious discussion sounds like if someone presses to close a deal. I didn't hear anything with Schoen that remotely resembled that. He sounded to me like he was checking a box and looking for an off-ramp to move on to something less complicated - just taking a WR.
This is exactly where I am with Schoen. He tried to trade up, but he didn’t. Everyone thought Evan Neal was a great pick, but he wasn’t. We all know Jones isn’t the answer but he got re-signed anyway.
When is it fair to start judging Schoen on what he accomplished instead of what he almost/tried to accomplish?