I probably knew this at one point -- the Giants spent 1 week in Gettleman's entire tenure with a .500 record and zero weeks with a winning record? Week of September 30th 2019, the Giants were 2-2. Is this true?
evaluated Eli and concluded he was just fine. It just so happened to be what the other morons in the front office wanted to hear. So off they went making other moronic decisions like Solder, drafting Saquon, etc.
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
Totally agreed.
They weren’t without faults - but they were the scapegoats for sure.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
2018 Out of the league
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
Giants missed on Norwall and everyone thought he was coming here b/c of the Carolina connection. They let Pugh walk to Arizona and then signed Solder, who was the top LT available. Classic Giants, guy plays well for previous team then sucks in blue. Same thing happened with Zeitler and the Beckham trade. Guy was an all pro guard and sucked here, moves on to Baltimore and returns to form
Giants missed on Norwall and everyone thought he was coming here b/c of the Carolina connection. They let Pugh walk to Arizona and then signed Solder, who was the top LT available. Classic Giants, guy plays well for previous team then sucks in blue. Same thing happened with Zeitler and the Beckham trade. Guy was an all pro guard and sucked here, moves on to Baltimore and returns to form
Zeitler didnt suck here, he just couldnt carry a shit unit.
They botched the cap so bad they couldnt afford to keep him.
2018 Out of the league
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
That's the one that got away?
I wouldn't discount Mara's ability to make it hard for someone to get a job after they leave the Giants.
That became a bit of BBI conventional wisdom and I have no idea why. He made a single Pro Bowl prior to coming to the Giants, that’s it. For whatever reason, people here starting calling him an All-Pro.
That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
He was also a total asshole and treated other in the building like shit.
I once pressed my Fatfriend why he defended Gettleman so ferociously.
If I recall, FMiC is pretty good friends with Brandon Beane, GM/Bills. And I recall FMiC saying he did some work with the Panthers (tech stuff...maybe?). So, he met Gettleman either through Beane or during the work he did.
Since Beane was under Gettleman at Carolina, my guess is Beane is very fond of him and that has influenced FMiC's POV.
Maybe FMiC will make a cameo and give us his reasons.
It is okay to express almost any NYG football opinion to a
reasonable degree. Back it up with empirical data, well-thought out views, historical trends and analytics, or even simply a good old-fashioned hunch.
But if you supported Dave Gettleman and his GM decisions after more than just a few months on the job, I don't know what to tell you other than you are a moron.
I will always, repeat...always, miss his press conferences though. They were simply "must-see-tv". Easily the most entertaining part of NY Giants football since 2012, on or off the field.
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
What’s odd is that those 2 never resurrected anywhere else.
This thread is depressing
RE: RE: For some reason people don't want to hear it
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
I've been saying this for years too. Reese got insanely unlucky. Kelce just retired after an All Pro season at 36 but we couldn't even get average play from Snee past 30.
Nicks was a heart-breaker. If he had a 7 year prime, we might take Martin over Odell.
Reese made a number of errors, but to hit home runs the on 2008 and 2009 first rounders and basically get nothing from them starting in 2013 just sucks.
I've said this before but if Nicks and Cruz hadn't had their careers derailed, we almost certainly would've drafted Donald or Martin instead of Beckham.
We were in trouble with his first free signing a washed up Jonathan Steward The whole league knew he was done xcept dg Then throwing millions at Solder Golliday & Patrick O & Mara just goes along smiling & signing checks & let’s not forget gift wrapping Parsons to Dallas. Dg worst GM ever & Mara does he ever do his own research on players it seems like he doesn’t Add up the dg screwups easily over 100 million wasted .
Don't forget trading JPP who may still be an active player, for some scrub named Alec Olgletree. Who lasted, what a few years with us then washed out of the league.
Despite the NYG ties, I thought he would come in and operate in a ruthless way. Get the cap in order and be financially disciplined. He was that way in Carolina. It was not the case here. They tried to retool on the fly and win with Eli.
All you had to do was read the 1st press conference
to realize the guy was dumb, had zero understanding of modern football, extremely arrogant with zero interest in learning anything new, and extremely lazy and unprepared (i.e., he only watched 1 Giants game before his "interview").
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
RE: All you had to do was read the 1st press conference
to realize the guy was dumb, had zero understanding of modern football, extremely arrogant with zero interest in learning anything new, and extremely lazy and unprepared (i.e., he only watched 1 Giants game before his "interview").
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
Gettleman simply couldn't accept the structure of the game had fundamentally changed. Run, stop the run, rush the passer is a blue print from 30+ years ago.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
Gettleman simply couldn't accept the structure of the game had fundamentally changed. Run, stop the run, rush the passer is a blue print from 30+ years ago.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
If conference championship participation is the way to judge the importance of running the ball vs. passing the ball -- the average team ranks for championship game participants from 2018-2023 (Gettleman era through today):
Additionally 10 teams have played in conference championship and not been a top 10 rushing team, only 7 teams have played in championship and not have been a top 10 passing team.
And as a reminder the 2011 Giants were the worst rushing offense in the league, and had 2 playoff games where they rushed for fewer than 100 yards including the NFCC where they rushed for 85 yards on 26 attempts for an average of 3.2 YPC.
It's absolutely true they rushed the ball better in the Super Bowl. So is the prevailing theory it's OK to suck running the ball all regular season, and suck rushing the ball in 2/3 playoff games so long as you rush the ball at a league average clip in the Super Bowl?
Gettleman simply couldn't accept the structure of the game had fundamentally changed. Run, stop the run, rush the passer is a blue print from 30+ years ago.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
Just a truly awful failure in the top spot.
It truly is. In Barkley's tenure as a Giant they were a top 10 rushing team once, 2022. And a big part of that was Jones.
Who could have guessed trying to build a running team around Weekend at Manning's was a loser.
Unfortunately, it's 1940s era basketball
A franchise that has been lost for years.
Wake up.
Quote:
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
Totally agreed.
They weren’t without faults - but they were the scapegoats for sure.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
That's the one that got away?
Zeitler didnt suck here, he just couldnt carry a shit unit.
They botched the cap so bad they couldnt afford to keep him.
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
That's the one that got away?
I wouldn't discount Mara's ability to make it hard for someone to get a job after they leave the Giants.
And of course he was a cap casualty during the get Daniel Weapons off season.
He was also a total asshole and treated other in the building like shit.
How anyone could read that and complain about fans being upset right now...
Maybe BW remembers, but there was a nickname for Dave that really pushed his buttons. Maybe it was Dave F' Gettleman?
I once pressed my Fatfriend why he defended Gettleman so ferociously.
If I recall, FMiC is pretty good friends with Brandon Beane, GM/Bills. And I recall FMiC saying he did some work with the Panthers (tech stuff...maybe?). So, he met Gettleman either through Beane or during the work he did.
Since Beane was under Gettleman at Carolina, my guess is Beane is very fond of him and that has influenced FMiC's POV.
Maybe FMiC will make a cameo and give us his reasons.
But if you supported Dave Gettleman and his GM decisions after more than just a few months on the job, I don't know what to tell you other than you are a moron.
I will always, repeat...always, miss his press conferences though. They were simply "must-see-tv". Easily the most entertaining part of NY Giants football since 2012, on or off the field.
Quote:
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
What’s odd is that those 2 never resurrected anywhere else.
This thread is depressing
Quote:
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
I've been saying this for years too. Reese got insanely unlucky. Kelce just retired after an All Pro season at 36 but we couldn't even get average play from Snee past 30.
Nicks was a heart-breaker. If he had a 7 year prime, we might take Martin over Odell.
Reese made a number of errors, but to hit home runs the on 2008 and 2009 first rounders and basically get nothing from them starting in 2013 just sucks.
I've said this before but if Nicks and Cruz hadn't had their careers derailed, we almost certainly would've drafted Donald or Martin instead of Beckham.
At the risk of defaming the departed, this is a classic. Link - ( New Window )
That thread is an amazing read for longtime posters. Relieved I didn’t post on it ha ha
That thread is an amazing read for longtime posters. Relieved I didn’t post on it ha ha
I didn't even realize I had posted on it. But I think I passed the test.
Don't forget trading JPP who may still be an active player, for some scrub named Alec Olgletree. Who lasted, what a few years with us then washed out of the league.
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
Yeah, he was referencing 1950s football. Yikes.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
The last two SB's were won in large part because of running the ball and stopping the run. Pretty basic analysis clearly shows this.
Giants two most recent SB's were won in large part due to this.
Beane has called Gettleman his mentor.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
Just a truly awful failure in the top spot.
Passing Offense Rank 9th
Rushing offense Rank 12th
Additionally 10 teams have played in conference championship and not been a top 10 rushing team, only 7 teams have played in championship and not have been a top 10 passing team.
And as a reminder the 2011 Giants were the worst rushing offense in the league, and had 2 playoff games where they rushed for fewer than 100 yards including the NFCC where they rushed for 85 yards on 26 attempts for an average of 3.2 YPC.
It's absolutely true they rushed the ball better in the Super Bowl. So is the prevailing theory it's OK to suck running the ball all regular season, and suck rushing the ball in 2/3 playoff games so long as you rush the ball at a league average clip in the Super Bowl?
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
Just a truly awful failure in the top spot.
It truly is. In Barkley's tenure as a Giant they were a top 10 rushing team once, 2022. And a big part of that was Jones.
Who could have guessed trying to build a running team around Weekend at Manning's was a loser.