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| Quote: |
| Connor Hughes @Connor_J_Hughes This was among the more tense parts of today’s presser. Reminded me of a mid-season one, not pre. #Giants |
For example Schoen is being asked about win totals and what is a succesful season, even thought he has made the playoffs as a gm and then missed the playoffs and had 1 bad year..
Meanwhile for the Jets Joe Douglas is treated like a god even thought he has one of the worst records as a GM in league history..
Imagine Schoen missing on a QB he drsfted at 2? Now has schoen done a great job? no but its ridiculous to be asked hey what win total do you need to make it a succesful season...
So true. Douglas isn't even better than Gettleman.
So that is your "layup" answer? Isn't that implied every year?
The question wasn't dumb, or simplistic. What constitutes 'significant improvement'? Yes, JM is the guy who should be defining that, but Schoen also has to have had discussions with JM about goals going forward. What are the expectations going forward? What is the road toward the ultimate goal of superbowl victory?
Schoen did nothing to articulate what he thought improvement would look like. He mentioned victories, but that's an answer I expect from the unwashed masses who post on BBI.
The answer is ridiculously simple: we need to look like we belong. No hard metrics. No win total. Nothing that can be definitively pointed to at the end of the season and say 'you missed'. Anything but 'ask the boss, I just work here'
The body language was WTF and fighting off responding with a sarcastic response.
+1
If Mara had the same love and patience for everyone he could make the same excuses for JS. He's doing an adaquate job for someone who has to try to put a roster together with a below average QB with the 4th highest cap number taking up over 18% of the cap.
If Mara had the same love and patience for everyone he could make the same excuses for JS. He's doing an adaquate job for someone who has to try to put a roster together with a below average QB with the 4th highest cap number taking up over 18% of the cap.
JS didn't inherit that DJ cap hit. He created it.
There are tons of dumb questions in these pressers, but honestly, I thought this one was very good.
He was clearly defensive.
He was clearly defensive.
The right answer is “our goal is to make the playoffs, anything less is a disappointment.” I know that he’d be putting a bullseye on his own back, but in year 3, the playoffs should be the goal. If not, what are we doing?
Asking a GM if they have a goal to make the playoffs, is that seriously the question? No wonder he blinked when asked. Of course they aim to make the playoffs. That's why he answered pretty much like --what do you think we're out here spending all this time trying to do? Preparing the team to be sitting home? It's a dumb question.
Plus he put Dabs on the hot seat. He said I like this team but who knows if it comes together. SOmetimes less talented teams perform better than you think. I think he's preparing a sacrificial lamb if things go sideways.
Yes, I know that they didn't like the "next three" QBs. My gut says that that analysis was another critical misstep for this franchise.
p.s.--Whenever they asked Coughlin if he was "comfortable" with such and such or so and so, he would always reply, "I don't like that word." He was never comfortable.
He said the goal is to win games, thereby redefining the question.
He ducked the question of 'how do you measure/define significant improvement?'
It was dumb of him to mention winning games. That puts a measurable metric on defining improvement. That was the awkward part. He said 'ask the boss', paused, then added 'we're trying to win games'. Well, no shit. Only a complete fool would admit to not trying to win games.
I didn't expect an answer of winning record, making playoffs, etc. but it seemed he was unable to bullshit his way through an easy question, like he didn't know how to define improvement. How about 'better OL, better WR, improved D'? Any number of soft answers.
BTW, Schoen always sweats during his press conferences.
BTW, Schoen always sweats during his press conferences.
Connor likes to spin negative, he does a good job but depending on who he is talking about he will normally go negative
Journalism 101
If they’re still this bad in year 3, than there is a real problem, and Mara should consider cleaning house. There are no other excuses. I’m not saying that they should be ready to go to the SB or win the NFCE, but if they can’t even be in the mix for a WC in year 3, that is an indictment of this administration.
Was Schoen a little a bit irritated? Maybe. But not a huge deal for me.
Meanwhile, Daboll looks nice and relaxed. It really helps to get into better shape...
It is just a stupid question and quite honestly a stupid take on Schoen's reaction.
+1
No, plus 10.
Yes, I know that they didn't like the "next three" QBs. My gut says that that analysis was another critical misstep for this franchise.
This is true, but a GM can't be a gaslighting charlatan either. Selling hope by pitching false hope is exactly what Gettleman did to the fans with the Barkley/Eli nonsense followed by the DJ draft nonsense.
Yes, Schoen made the biggest mistake of all in caving in to DJ's contract blackmail, but in observing this interview and his "kung pao sweating", it seems to me that Schoen appears to recognize the brutality of his error and the consequences that lie ahead. And of course, he realizes that both he and Daboll will be the scapegoat casualties if this season is a disaster. Unfortunately, he probably has come to understand too late that acquiescing to Mara's passive aggression in this job is a likely path to GM career ruin.
Daboll on the other hand appears relaxed knowing that in his case, he has a no lose call option. If this team does well, he will be an absolute hero with the quarterback and roster that was given to him. If they do not do well, he will be back to the comfortable confines of NFL OC within a nanosecond.
Yes, I know that they didn't like the "next three" QBs. My gut says that that analysis was another critical misstep for this franchise.
This is a great post. As someone who's watched every Schoen presser, he comes across as defensive here.
Defensive to the media doesn't usually end well in NY.
Was Schoen a little a bit irritated? Maybe. But not a huge deal for me.
Meanwhile, Daboll looks nice and relaxed. It really helps to get into better shape...
Yeah, from reading some of this thread first before watching, I expected a worse question and a worse answer. But I can see why Schoen wasn't a fan of the question, because the setup had the feel of one that might be looking to put the GM at odds with the owner.
For those of you commenting that it is stupid to ask for a win total, I'm pretty sure (though not positive) that the reporter started off with something like, "I don't want, say, a win total, but..." before his microphone fully kicked in.
Quote:
I would be frustrated with the question too. Show me an interview with an NFL executive who has provided an estimated win total before the season.
It is just a stupid question and quite honestly a stupid take on Schoen's reaction.
+1
No, plus 10.
From what I can tell, the question wasn't about a win total. It was about what constitutes significant improvement. Simplistic minds automatically go to W-L. That's what scares me most about the answer.
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In comment 16590373 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
I would be frustrated with the question too. Show me an interview with an NFL executive who has provided an estimated win total before the season.
It is just a stupid question and quite honestly a stupid take on Schoen's reaction.
+1
No, plus 10.
From what I can tell, the question wasn't about a win total. It was about what constitutes significant improvement. Simplistic minds automatically go to W-L. That's what scares me most about the answer.
But it's hard to evade the fact that more wins is how "significant improvement" of a team is ultimately measured in this league.
I can't help but feel this way as well, but if that's true, he deserves to get canned for stupidity. There's just no way to game out the choices Schoen made this last offseason and for him expect any kind of job security.
If they lose a bunch of games, he's out.
If they're middling or slightly worse, he's still probably out because there will be pressure for regime change again to align the new potential QB with GM and head coach. In other words, why risk switching coach and GM again mid rookie contract like we did with Jones?
If they do the miraculous and win with a below average QB, good luck drafting a QB you like if you weren't sold on taking QBs who went 8, 10, and 12 when you were picking 6th.
Quote:
In comment 16590373 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
I would be frustrated with the question too. Show me an interview with an NFL executive who has provided an estimated win total before the season.
It is just a stupid question and quite honestly a stupid take on Schoen's reaction.
+1
No, plus 10.
From what I can tell, the question wasn't about a win total. It was about what constitutes significant improvement. Simplistic minds automatically go to W-L. That's what scares me most about the answer.
The reporter never asked for a win total, he merely asked what metric Schoen used to determine improvement. It was a perfectly reasonable question, but some want to jump on the media any chance they get. I get it, they often deserve that, but if Schoen is going to talk about improvement, it is more than fair to ask him how he measures that.
Hopefully the team has a lot of metrics they look at besides wins. Pressure rate, pressure rate allowed, number of big plays, number of turnover worthy plays....hopefully a lot of cool stuff that I don't even know about.
This is how you measure and deliver success in an organization. No business, other than the underpants gnomes, uses profit as their one and only metric. They manage to much more specific metrics and those metrics lead to profit.
This question should be a layup for any executive. We have 5 key metrics at the organizational level, below those we have numerous more discrete operational metrics. It should not be hard to rattle off stuff like that (or at least a vague explanation). And it's not like he'd be giving away trade secrets
It’s what I’d expect
He’s under a lot of pressure - as he should be.
Defensive to the media doesn't usually end well in NY.
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In comment 16590698 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16590373 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
I would be frustrated with the question too. Show me an interview with an NFL executive who has provided an estimated win total before the season.
It is just a stupid question and quite honestly a stupid take on Schoen's reaction.
+1
No, plus 10.
From what I can tell, the question wasn't about a win total. It was about what constitutes significant improvement. Simplistic minds automatically go to W-L. That's what scares me most about the answer.
The reporter never asked for a win total, he merely asked what metric Schoen used to determine improvement. It was a perfectly reasonable question, but some want to jump on the media any chance they get. I get it, they often deserve that, but if Schoen is going to talk about improvement, it is more than fair to ask him how he measures that.
It was a dumb question. Regardless, big deal. That's the main point. That the OP's assertion is ludicrous.
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In comment 16590814 fkap said:
Quote:
In comment 16590698 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16590373 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
I would be frustrated with the question too. Show me an interview with an NFL executive who has provided an estimated win total before the season.
It is just a stupid question and quite honestly a stupid take on Schoen's reaction.
+1
No, plus 10.
From what I can tell, the question wasn't about a win total. It was about what constitutes significant improvement. Simplistic minds automatically go to W-L. That's what scares me most about the answer.
The reporter never asked for a win total, he merely asked what metric Schoen used to determine improvement. It was a perfectly reasonable question, but some want to jump on the media any chance they get. I get it, they often deserve that, but if Schoen is going to talk about improvement, it is more than fair to ask him how he measures that.
It was a dumb question. Regardless, big deal. That's the main point. That the OP's assertion is ludicrous.
How was it a ‘dumb question’?
<snip>
It was a dumb question. Regardless, big deal. That's the main point. That the OP's assertion is ludicrous.
How was it a ‘dumb question’?
Because the answer is obvious, and a media savvy guy like Schoen isn't going to fall into such an obvious trap.
‘John Mara talked earlier to us in camp, I want to see significant improvement. Joe, I know you’re not going to say a win total. How do you measure significant improvement?’
That’s not a dumb question at all.
Is it also media savvy to say you need a better QB room and be patient with free agent running backs and then not do that?
This worship of average at best people is tiring. The Giants are an underachieving low talent NFL organization. Stop with the gaslighting that they are not.
JS is only media savvy next to DG or Joe Judge but compared to the average high level leader in a multi billion dollar organization that is public facing he’s a putz
Ding ding ding - I think this is the answer. Schoen doesn't want to draw any lines in the sand about what constitutes improvement because of the likelihood this Giants team fails to reach it.
Because then he would have to walk back any comments and potentially create a new pressure point for the media/fans to press - "Hey, Joe, the Giants didn't win 9 games/make the playoffs/score x PPG...what went wrong?" And finding a diplomatic answer to THAT question is an even bigger can of worms.
‘John Mara talked earlier to us in camp, I want to see significant improvement. Joe, I know you’re not going to say a win total. How do you measure significant improvement?’
That’s not a dumb question at all.
You're right. It's not a dumb question. It's dumb to expect an answer with any substance.